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Thread: Panspermia?

  1. #1 Panspermia? 
    ox
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    What do you make of this guys?
    Scientists find life coming to Earth from space - News releases - News - The University of Sheffield

    Small organisms detected too large to have risen to 16 miles above earth.
    Evidence of alien life continually arriving on earth from space could completely change our view of biology and evolution.
    Or yet another panspermia theory?


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    I think it is contamination.

    Others have also given their opinions about this research:
    British scientists claim to have found proof of alien life

    However, if it is demonstrated that these organisms are truly from outer space, then it would indeed change our view about life.
    It would also demonstrate that the Panspermia hypothesis is as valid as the findings of prebiotic chemistry.


    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

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    Neverfly likes this.
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    Hold on... there is a "Roswell: T.V. series?"

    <Facepalm.>
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    That was the article I read originally. I was stunned to think that if true then that would be biggest thing in biology since Darwin. If false we can keep trying. In the absence of proof of how life started on earth then I have to believe that it came from space. Fred Hoyle and others would be vindicated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    In the absence of proof of how life started on earth then I have to believe that it came from space. Fred Hoyle and others would be vindicated.
    Conversely, in the absence of evidence that life came from space you'll have to believe that it started on Earth. Others, too, would be vindicated I'm sure.


    Perhaps it would be a better idea to keep an open mind and explore all hypotheses?
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    Diatoms are types of phytoplankton, which are very common and from Earth. Seems pretty obvious that the assumption that some of these can't get into the stratosphere is wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Diatoms are types of phytoplankton, which are very common and from Earth. Seems pretty obvious that the assumption that some of these can't get into the stratosphere is wrong.
    Whales cannot get onto land. So this animal was obviously a New species found.
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    something to think about - if they truly are alien in origin then we should be able to find them in the atmosphere of Mars and titan. Or any other body with an atmosphere we go looking. If they're not floating around anywhere else then it would point to them being earthly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueyedlion View Post
    something to think about - if they truly are alien in origin then we should be able to find them in the atmosphere of Mars and titan. Or any other body with an atmosphere we go looking. If they're not floating around anywhere else then it would point to them being earthly.

    That would be a very expensive and labour-intensive task.
    Furthermore, if it is truly extraterrestrial, then one may not exclude comets, meteorites, asteroids, etc.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

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    Sounds like you're saying we shouldn't make the greatest confirmed discovery of all time because of costs. Apparently in the near future it would be dramatically cheaper to spend NASA's budget on mining near earth asteroids then a Mars manned mission. If they or the private sector actually started mining in the next decade or so, you'd hope they might find them there as well. Which would be a massive two birds one stone mission - oops ive made two acccounts 0o
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreLeCoz View Post
    Sounds like you're saying we shouldn't make the greatest confirmed discovery of all time because of costs. Apparently in the near future it would be dramatically cheaper to spend NASA's budget on mining near earth asteroids then a Mars manned mission. If they or the private sector actually started mining in the next decade or so, you'd hope they might find them there as well. Which would be a massive two birds one stone mission - oops ive made two acccounts 0o

    I did not say we should not make a trip to confirm the finding.
    I merely summarized some things we have to take into account if we want to look for the source of these extraterrestrial organisms.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueyedlion View Post
    something to think about - if they truly are alien in origin then we should be able to find them in the atmosphere of Mars and titan. Or any other body with an atmosphere we go looking. If they're not floating around anywhere else then it would point to them being earthly.
    We already know they are Earthly. In fact they are parts of the most common organisms on Earth.

    --
    As for your end question, we should be searching every knock and cranny of other planets (and moons) within reason. If life exist on Mars it's well beneath the surface--but looking even less likely as Curiosity isn't detecting methane. Europa and Titan should be explored. We might be adding Ceres as possible life holding places to the list in a few months.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; September 22nd, 2013 at 11:21 AM.
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    A couple of quite detailed demolitions of this "scientific" finding.

    Astroblog: Diatoms From Outerspace? How Not to Find Life on Comets

    Killer quote

    Yes. That's the whole paper basically. "We found a diatom fragment, it's unlikely that diatom fragments can last that long in the high atmosphere, therefore it came from outer space"
    I’m not the troll, but I think they caught one in their sample » Pharyngula

    Lots of piccies here

    The problem lies in the interpretation. They’re then sorting the material observed into known vs. unknown, where “known” is clearly material from earth, and “unknown” is immediately categorized as Possible Signs of Extraterrestrial Life. The logic doesn’t work. It makes no sense. You’re looking at low density airborne particles in the atmosphere of a planet; it’s not as if we’ve come even close to categorizing all the particles of terrestrial origin, so you can’t play this game of assigning subsets to some other source outside our world.

    The authors also have a bad case of apophenia. Almost every bit of unrecognizable garbage they spot is called “life”. Here is one of their examples.
    And for anyone who thinks these people might have done some real science ...

    they have done no laboratory analysis of the particles they found. No analysis - none, zilch, nada, nothing. They could have done more than look at them through a super duper microscope, but they chose not to. This is not how good science works.
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    Why do people repeat this insanity?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    As for your end question, we should be searching every knock and cranny of other planets (and moons) within reason. If life exist on Mars it's well beneath the surface--but looking even less likely as Curiosity isn't detecting methane. Europa and Titan should be explored. We might be adding Ceres as possible life holding places to the list in a few months.

    How exactly do you look for life if you do not know if living organisms have the same properties on other planets and moons?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    How exactly do you look for life if you do not know if living organisms have the same properties on other planets and moons?
    Look for deviations from background. If another form of life was so different that we cannot even recognize it as life, screw it if we miss it- We wouldn't be able to relate on any kind of level anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    How exactly do you look for life if you do not know if living organisms have the same properties on other planets and moons?
    Look for deviations from background. If another form of life was so different that we cannot even recognize it as life, screw it if we miss it- We wouldn't be able to relate on any kind of level anyway.

    Such as looking for places with higher than normal levels of e.g. amino acids and nucleotides?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Look for deviations from background. If another form of life was so different that we cannot even recognize it as life, screw it if we miss it- We wouldn't be able to relate on any kind of level anyway.
    That happened with NASA's mars rock years ago, NASA still holds it's life, others don't. The scientific community doesn't go one sided - black and white on something if there's no clear conclusion. If we can't relate we continue to do tests until we can decide, we don't just move on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreLeCoz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Look for deviations from background. If another form of life was so different that we cannot even recognize it as life, screw it if we miss it- We wouldn't be able to relate on any kind of level anyway.
    That happened with NASA's mars rock years ago, NASA still holds it's life, others don't. The scientific community doesn't go one sided - black and white on something if there's no clear conclusion. If we can't relate we continue to do tests until we can decide, we don't just move on.

    Which Martian rock? ALH84001?
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    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Such as looking for places with higher than normal levels of e.g. amino acids and nucleotides?
    My simple mind was far more subtle than that... I was thinking along the lines of, "If it moves by its own accord."
    Like a tiny space object arbitrarily changing direction. It would get our attention... Or if one was moving along and suddenly started slowing down on its own.

    Stuff like that.

    If it's so far outside of that that we cannot even recognize it as life, it's pretty far out there...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Which Martian rock? ALH84001?
    Don't remember there were any others you could be confused with...
    But yeah bingo
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreLeCoz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Which Martian rock? ALH84001?
    Don't remember there were any others you could be confused with...
    But yeah bingo

    If I recall it correctly, then I think that the analyses on ALH84001 were inconclusive, rather than demonstrating the presence/absence of extraterrestrial fossils.
    Anyway, it cannot be denied that meteorites, comets and MCs are also places worth investigating for living organisms.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

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    pretty sure it was inconclusive exactly because the data couldn't show life was fundamentally present or absent.
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    Minor Nitpick: The piece you're referring to was claimed to have fossilized remains of bacteria on it.
    Which would be much harder to test than living bacteria.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreLeCoz View Post
    pretty sure it was inconclusive exactly because the data couldn't show life was fundamentally present or absent.
    Only the original researchers maintained a belief that ALH84001 contained evidence of life. A subtantial number of other researchers strongly disputed the notion and offered valid alternative explanations for the observations. Mackay and his associates backed off of their orignal strong position, to a "well, it might be true" position.

    Also, a minor point, technically I don't think NASA maintain the meteorite contains evidence of life. I believe NASA has retreated to a mroe neutral position. It is Mackay and his team of NASA researchers who hold the belief. It is a small, but significant difference.
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