Thread: Mammoth cloning: ethical problems if it can be done?

My bucket list includes seeing a "live" mammoth clone. I searched the forum and there are related discussions, but I 'm surprised it has not come up again. More intact remains seem to be found every day.... thinking it's a matter of time and resource before it's done. Ready for the blasting to begin! Where am I off base?

related article: Mammoth cloning still unlikely, despite blood discovery | MNN - Mother Nature Network

As long as there are no attempts to reintroduce mammoths into the wild, which could harm current ecosystems. Though, I think it may be more ethical for humans to clone animals rendered extinct by human actions. The Thylacine comes to mind, not only did humans cause its extinction, but it's a fascinating creature as well.

Now that bio-engineering has become more like owning IKEA furniture then by all means, clone anything you want. It's all there, just put it together. Let's see how easy it is.

The link you posted seems to answer the question pretty well, doesn't it?

The article is rather depressing if you hope that scientists will be able to clone this mammoth.
But even if they succeed, I do not think that scientists have to deal with the ethical problems.

Now we just have to wait for a well-preserved dinosaur and better cloning techniques and soon we can open Jurassic Park.

Originally Posted by zinjanthropos

Now that bio-engineering has become more like owning IKEA furniture then by all means, clone anything you want. It's all there, just put it together. Let's see how easy it is.

Won't that mean we shall have parts left over?

Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum

Now we just have to wait for a well-conserved dinosaur

MitRomneysaurus Rex.

I think you meant preserved?

Or better yet; Dinosaur preserves.

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I don't see any serious ethical concerns here.

I'm not sure there could be any unethical implications. We protect endangered species, isn't this technology insurance for that goal?

Copied this from Wikipedia: "Paul and Elder define ethics as "a set of concepts and principles that guide us in determining what behavior helps or harms sentient creatures"."

Points to Ponder:
- Shlunka's guidance leading to an existance in captivity
- Potential to isolate a sentient/social creature
- The potential " Jurasic Park" scenarios
- Unknown pathogen vector
- Pandora bridge to all other cloning

It is interesting that ethical considerations have become an issue.

Originally Posted by Josey

"Paul and Elder define ethics as "a set of concepts and principles that guide us in determining what behavior helps or harms sentient creatures"."

I suppose that which either helps or harms "sentient creatures" will depend on which side of the fence one is looking from. Does sentient creatures refer to those species that currently populates our planet, or does it refer to the mammoth that may be cloned? If it is the latter; the question that ought to be asked is - does bringing back an extinct species harm it (the mammoth) more than it does us (all species that aren't extinct just yet)?

Originally Posted by Josey

- Shlunka's guidance leading to an existance in captivity

Compare that thought with any and all animals currently bred and living in captivity.

Originally Posted by Josey

- Potential to isolate a sentient/social creature

I'll take two please.

Originally Posted by Josey

- The potential " Jurasic Park" scenarios

Please elobrate a little more on the nature of the scenario you have in mind.

Originally Posted by Josey

- Unknown pathogen vector

Signs of self-preservation instincts kicking in. A more altruistic version would be concerns of such an outbreak harming non-human life, but inevitably damaging the current ecosystem and possibly affecting us as well.

Originally Posted by Josey

- Pandora bridge to all other cloning

Is the concern here being exclusively a bridge to other non-human cloning; or cloning in general?

Elephants are very social creatures and appear to form social bonds. Rearing it with elephants might satisfy if the group would accept this "ugly duckling". I do not hink it would do any harm bringing back the extinct species. There would however be a risk to all existing animals (humans included here) as we are introducing a possible vector for disease transmission. Is the mammoth to be raised in a laboratory setting where organisms and pathogens can be controlled? The lifespan of these animals may be 60-80 years.

Comparing to other animals kept and bred in captivity: thinking there are opinions about killer whales, dolphins, porpoises, elephants, and apes (humans too) kept in confinement and in isolation.

Scenario 1) Humans become extinct. 20,000 years from now an alien race finds a frozen human and clones it. That human is raised in isolation for study and observation or perhaps it has a clone to play "aliens" with.

Scenario 2) The Jurasic Park Scenario, where despite safety precautions.... human graft and selfishness put humans and cloned species at odds with disasterous outcomes. The cloned species get OUT of their confinements to wreak havoc on an unready planet. All anuimal life may be in jeopardy until the beasts are brought down.... mammoth burgers for a small northerly village.

The 2 year gestation period for an Elephant/Mammoth/Mastodon removed the OMG Jurassic park problem very easily.

Originally Posted by Josey

Scenario 2) The Jurasic Park Scenario, where despite safety precautions.... human graft and selfishness put humans and cloned species at odds with disasterous outcomes. The cloned species get OUT of their confinements to wreak havoc on an unready planet. All anuimal life may be in jeopardy until the beasts are brought down.... mammoth burgers for a small northerly village.

Not many considerable animals can take on humans on a rampage.. The dinosaurs would fight eachother as well. Only 1 or 2 would dominate, and honestly, they would have a huge weakness. As they won't understand out technology. We'll only have to get them to walk over electric wire. Or fly into an electric net. If the critters are aquatic, then by all means, fry the suckers. If they are out on open sea... Well that's a problem though.. But our current sea animals could probably take them on. Sharks are a lot smarter then aquatic dinosaurs. We'll just have to wait along, i guess.

As far as i know the DNA starts to decay at the moment of death, so even if we found some genetic material it would just be scraps of the whole thing, right ?

I thought DNA had an immortal quality about it... or was that cancer?

This is really neat to think about: our stem cells may be immortal.....so may the mammoths

Video of interest describing stem cells and immortal worms:Neverending DNA and Immortal Worms - YouTube

Originally Posted by laza

As far as i know the DNA starts to decay at the moment of death, so even if we found some genetic material it would just be scraps of the whole thing, right ?

We would find scraps of DNA yes. But theoretically we could turn the fragments into a whole chain again. Simple sequencing trick. But this is only possible if the DNA isn't to messed up. The biggest problem however would be finding fragments where the G's (thought it was the least stable base) have degraded.

But we would not be sure if that was the exactly the same genome of a mammoth like it was 10 000 years ago right ?

No, but there are differences between our DNA, as a human, so slight variations are not that bad. However, even if we could get the exact DNA inside an elephant egg cell, and empregnate an elephant with it. Whatever comes out, will not be a mammoth. As the proteïns that would read the DNA in the beginning, would be that of an elephant, not from a mammoth.

It's like reading a book..

Say you can read modern english (elephant), but the book is in ancient english (mammoth). You will get some things wrong. Most likely you will miss certain important intonations that are required for a smooth storyline. If the product would even look like a mammoth, i'd be astonished. If it lives, i'd be amazed. And if it has anything like a normal life span i'd be surprised.

Just to say, we need to get out proteomics in order, before we can create a mammoth clone.

OK..... for a bit of fun check out this story and the source: Scientists believe mankind will see live mammoth - PanARMENIAN.Net

Cheers!