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Thread: Every Animal Lover Ok with This?

  1. #1 Every Animal Lover Ok with This? 
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    What do you think of this? How much to you want animals protected and are you willing to sanction such an action? Could you ever see it happening in other places and where? Is it to eliminate an underground economy or protect the tourist trade and do they really have the poached animals' welfare at heart?


    Last edited by zinjanthropos; February 18th, 2013 at 02:43 PM.
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    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Well I don't know really, normally I'm against using violence, unless as a last resort, even against some of the worst criminals, but rather strangely I'm alright with the idea of shooting poachers. I guess it just seems justified and if it helps protect the animals then fine.


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  4. #3  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well I don't know really, normally I'm against using violence, unless as a last resort, even against some of the worst criminals, but rather strangely I'm alright with the idea of shooting poachers. I guess it just seems justified and if it helps protect the animals then fine.
    I guess we just have to think of poachers as an invasive species.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What do you think of this?
    I, for one, am totally ok with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    How much to you want animals protected and are you willing to sanction such an action? Could you ever see it happening in other places and where? Is it to eliminate an underground economy or protect the tourist trade and do they really have the animals' welfare at heart?
    We are animals just like other animals. Your question does not make sense. It treats the issue as though we are somehow 'not animals.'
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  6. #5  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What do you think of this?
    I, for one, am totally ok with it.

    We are animals just like other animals. Your question does not make sense. It treats the issue as though we are somehow 'not animals.'
    I have edited the OP to read 'poached animals'.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  7. #6  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    From the article, the following observation:
    “We hardly ever come face-to-face with poachers,” he said Wednesday, predicting few instances where guards might fire at suspects.
    Instead, he predicted that the state’s offer to pay informers from a new government fund worth about 5 million rupees ($90,000) would be more effective in curbing wildlife crime. “We get very few tips, so this will really help,” Naqvi said.
    The poachers are merely the symptom of the real problem, IMO, and that is the market that is willing to pay the exorbitant prices for these animal parts. Those are the people that need to be identified, exposed and dealt with harshly. Going after the end users makes more sense to me than chasing the suppliers.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    The poachers are merely the symptom of the real problem, IMO, and that is the market that is willing to pay the exorbitant prices for these animal parts. Those are the people that need to be identified, exposed and dealt with harshly. Going after the end users makes more sense to me than chasing the suppliers.
    It's a tough call. There are a vast amount of end users that are very difficult to root out. And there will always be more end users to come as new generations are raised with screwy superstitions, as well.

    The Suppliers are the few. And easier to find than the end users.
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  9. #8  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    The poachers are not the entirety of the problem. It is the markets which allow for smuggling and laundering of poached goods that need to be stopped.

    That having been said, I'm fine with it. I'm no more disgusted by it than I am seeing people posing animals they've killed or decapitating them and hanging body parts on their walls. To be fair, though, I like animals more than people to begin with.
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  10. #9  
    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    I have no problem with it, but it should be noted that the poachers have rifles, and will shoot back.
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  11. #10  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    in August i went on a walking safari in Zambia's Mosi-oa-Tunya national park to see white rhino
    we were told that, if any of us had entered the national park unaccompanied by a guide, we would have been shot on sight, no questions asked

    in addition, our guide carried an AK47, which he admitted was not of much use against rhino, elephant or buffalo, but specifically aimed at poachers - after all, poachers have no qualms about shooting park rangers, so they need to be able to defend themselves
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  12. #11  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    The poachers are merely the symptom of the real problem, IMO, and that is the market that is willing to pay the exorbitant prices for these animal parts. Those are the people that need to be identified, exposed and dealt with harshly. Going after the end users makes more sense to me than chasing the suppliers.
    It's a tough call. There are a vast amount of end users that are very difficult to root out. And there will always be more end users to come as new generations are raised with screwy superstitions, as well.

    The Suppliers are the few. And easier to find than the end users.
    I would expect that many poachers deal with middlemen, even as drugs often have a distribution system. Finding that bottleneck seems like it would be the more ambitious goal for then one could identify both the poachers and the end users. One might also make some disturbing discoveries as to how and by whom this practice continues to be enabled.

    It's a dangerous situation no matter which angle one approaches it from for where large amounts of money are involved, human life suddenly becomes cheap in comparison. Poaching is not unknown in the Yukon and we have an anonymous hotline, Turn In Poachers.

    Turn in Poachers Polluters
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  13. #12  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    I remember a cartoon I once watched. In it both a wolf and dog punched a time clock to start their daily work. The wolf's job was to kill sheep and the dog's was to protect the sheep by beating the crap out of the wolf. However this did not deter the wolf as he kept on working.

    Imagine for a minute that we laid the dog off and employed only the wolf. The difference being that we pay the wolf not to kill the sheep. It would be the wolf's job to not allow other wolves a free shot at the sheep. For every sheep that dies the wolf loses pay. Make it worthwhile to the wolf and he may switch from killer to protector. If you can't beat 'em then hire them*.

    *not expecting a positive response
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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    It suddenly came to my attention that the article in the opening post is from May 23rd, 2012. I found another article from Aug. 21st, 2012 and it elaborates on the reasoning behind the policy in greater detail. In the three months since the implementation of the more liberal policy regarding the use of firearms where poachers were concerned, at that time, no poachers had been shot.

    Pardeshi freely admits this means a trade-off between tiger conservation and human rights — but says it's not a big concern. "Only tigers have been killed so far, not one single poacher has been killed in India, at least in Maharashtra. So that's this sort of multiplier value of a human life versus a tiger. There's no comparison," he says. "No person will ever be shot. It's just to ensure that there's a little bit more stronger enforcement."
    Save The Tigers, Shoot The Humans | The Global Mail
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    pay the wolf not to kill the sheep
    That's a thought provoker.

    It made me wonder about a poacher's resume: what are his skills, his background? Obviously the poacher would be an excellent ranger, and willing to relocate, live in rough conditions, think independently.

    It also made me wonder if the poacher isn't exodus from some class, where he's just applying the skillset and lifestyle he acquired honestly, now illegally. Kinda like the British Navy kept creating pirates by training men to sail and kill, then flogging all respect for discipline and authority out of them until they'd jump ship... then make their ways in the world with the unique skills they'd been given. Where do poachers come from?
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  16. #15  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    the question has to be asked : under the present circumstances, is the animal worth more to the poacher dead or alive ?
    if the poacher has no benefit from the animal being alive (e.g. the revenue from tourism goes elsewhere), why should the poacher forego killing it ?

    also think that in India tigers roam outside the reserves and are invariably killed by the farmers when they do, since they form a threat to their own lives or liveihood
    in 1994 i went to the Sariska tiger reserve, and although i didn't see any, at the time there was still a healthy population there - that appears no longer to be the case, and tigers had to be re-introduced, but long term the conflict between the lebensraum a tiger needs and the surrounding human population must mean that measures so far have not worked
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  17. #16  
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    I disagree with the "shoot on sight" criteria. Even if a human were the prey, in most nations that wouldn't be automatic except in the most dire situation. For example a cop might shoot without warning if it witness another person with gun aimed and safety off pointed at another person. If however the suspect didn't have a gun raised, they might get a warning and opportunity to surrender to the cop.

    I'm somewhat encouraged by the implied rights being given to Tigers, putting them in near equal status as people as worthy of protection.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; February 19th, 2013 at 03:51 PM.
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  18. #17  
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    When I lived in the very rural part of the Missouri Ozarks, surrounded by 7 million acres of National Forest, it quickly became apparent that poaching of game was almost a local pastime. I am a sport shooter, non-living targets only, and was appalled by the generally lax attitude of the residents regarding poaching; it was a generational thing. Dogs were trained to run deer, nearly to death. A guy's dog was as important to him as any member of his family!

    It has always struck me as deplorable, that "he-man" hunters bravely shoot at animals of another species which are completely without defense means, doves, deer, turkey, but are highly reluctant to exercise their "manly-abilities" by shooting at, say, police cars. jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    It has always struck me as deplorable, that "he-man" hunters bravely shoot at animals of another species which are completely without defense means, doves, deer, turkey, but are highly reluctant to exercise their "manly-abilities" by shooting at, say, police cars. jocular
    You've clearly never stalked a deer. I can well assure you, even the ones without the antlers are deadly. Those hooves can be razor sharp and they are not above sending them in a kicking slice at your neck. I recall a little too clearly the sight of a deer hunter I'd come across while hiking. He' obviously been caught be surprise- probably walked right up on a deer without knowing it was there. Either way, his neck was clean through. The only consolation for the man was that he most likely bled to death very quickly, rather than slowly. The downside was he couldn't even yell for help should anyone be within hearing distance at the time it happened...

    Personally, I'm not to keen at shooting at animals or people for any reason other than defensive. For hunting, I prefer other measures... But I grew up kinda funny...
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  20. #19  
    Forum Sophomore Hassnhadi's Avatar
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    I'm 60% in favour of the idea idea of killing those who kill animals illegally (poaching), After all, it's illegal.. I don't think we allow killing humans illegally so why allow killing animals illegally then? Killing animals is a horrible idea since they're more threatened of extinction than us.. And I believe they're more vital and important to nature's balance than us.. Although, something less painful than death might be more helpful, such as a 20,000$ and confiscating the weapon's license and such

    EDIT: How do I remove the attached file? lol..
    Attached Images
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    EDIT: How do I remove the attached file? lol..
    Oh... but I like it.
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  22. #21  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hassnhadi View Post
    EDIT: How do I remove the attached file? lol..
    Oh... but I like it.
    So....

    Either throw a 'like' on the post or help him edit it, lol...
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  23. #22  
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    I'll defer that one to MacGyver. He'll do pictures with guides and make it all good and stuff whereas I struggle to remove attachments of my own, anyway.
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  24. #23  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I'll defer that one to MacGyver. He'll do pictures with guides and make it all good and stuff whereas I struggle to remove attachments of my own, anyway.
    Good enough...Mac needs the occasional 'mission' to keep him sharp, anyways, lol...
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