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About LinkBackswhy cant we get human chimp hybrids, has anyone ever tried , i heard that there were some experiments in the past, but were they serious ?
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January 22nd, 2013, 12:17 PM
why cant we get human chimp hybrids, has anyone ever tried , i heard that there were some experiments in the past, but were they serious ?
i'v seen this, but no one has ever done a long real serious experiment yet, there is got to be a way to do this now
I would think that such an experiment would be generally considered seriously unethical, at least if it was aimed at more than the single-cell level.
Why?
Hell, I'd go for a Tiger. Tigman?
Huger?
Claws, fangs and stripes- you cannot go wrong.
why unethical ? it would be a scientific breakthrough if it succeeded
The crossbreed would be considered 'less' than human by popular opinion. How could the being be expected to have quality of life? It is not enough to just exist. You gotta live.Originally Posted by laza
The life of the resulting offspring could be pretty horrible. Imagine the life of a being smart enough to know that it was clearly the dumbest human-like being on earth. Definitely not something I would want.
so what, we know that chimps are closest to us and we put them in cages for our entertainment, im not defending this of course im just saying that if we want to talk about ethical problems we need to look at the entire picture. The hybrid would probably be sterile so it would just be one animal, and we are talking about thousands of our animal relatives in cages, so i dont think that they dont want to do it because of ethical problems, what could be another reason ?
Hey! My ex-girlfriend managed well enough.
Last edited by Dywyddyr; January 22nd, 2013 at 03:30 PM.
I also find this unethical. Bear in mind, ethics are simply a human invention.
Who is "they?"
Manipulating human genes would be a much better way to improve on our species than crossing us with other animals.
by "they" i mean scientists, im just saying that we are already doing much worse things then creating 1 animal that might have a sad life ( which does not mean that that would be the case ) and it would be a breakthrough discovery
Remember, my original statement was it would be "generally considered" unethical. I think that there are enough people who feel it is unethical to put a chimp in a cage, even for medical research, that risking the existence of a half-human with an unpleasant life would be considered unethical by a majority of humans. Certainly the general existence of unethical activities of one kind is not generally considered to justify taking actions that are somewhat less grievously unethical.
i dont think so, i think that a majority of people would be interested to see if we could get a human/chimp hybrid , and i dont see an unethical thing in it, it would get joy from knowing that is the first of its species everand it would be considered highly unethical in america, because overwhelming number of religious people that dont care about science, but the experiment does not need to take place in america
Why not make a poll- use this forum as a small study sample.
Ok, c'mon people lets do it for science
No, thanks. Some things we can reasonably decide we don't want to try just to confirm the results we suspect.
For example, I have no desire to try crack/cocaine just to see what it's like. I can make a pretty educated guess that it's not something I want.
yes, because you can get addicted and die a horrible death, but this is different, in this case we will never know unless we test it, and it is a huge scientific question, and it would benefit greatly by increasing the acceptance of evolution around the world
You are incorrect, chimps have been known to possess a greater intellect than mentally disabled individuals.The life of the resulting offspring could be pretty horrible. Imagine the life of a being smart enough to know that it was clearly the dumbest human-like being on earth. Definitely not something I would want.
I agree, I see no scientific breakthrough in this experiment, I could take a hammer to someone's brain and get the same results.
hammer to someone's brain ? what are you talking about, this would be a big breakthrough and it would be one more gigantic proof in favor of evolution, maybe the biggest
Obviously yes, it has been tried. Here, in the US, we call them Congressmen.
Past studies concluded the cross species breeding between the two wouldn't likely work. I'm saying I can strike someone's cranium and cause the damage required to have similar intelligence to a chimp-man.
you would have a point if we wanted to see an animal that is half retarded and that is all . But that is not the case, we want to see is it possible for a homo sapiens and a chimpanzee to have offspring, and what would that animal look like, the genetic details and yes intelligence
Any time you even so much as use human cells for experimentation, you're talking about legal issues.
If you tried to breed a human...come on. It took years of battling just to find ways to work with stem cells.
How would it be a "proof" of evolution?
We sure do know how to screw things up rather well , don't we. We can't ask the primates, other than ourselves, whether they want to take part in such experiments with them. What are the consequences to the product of the hybrid if it ever was to happen? Would it be put on display as for the world to watch it grow in a zoo somewhere and be treated as some kind of oddity?
We should not be tampering with such things just to see what would happen, that's not good science to me. It seems very unethical as well. I would be totally against such a thing happening and see anyone trying to do this as someone who only wants attention for themselves, not for the advancement of science.
Last edited by cosmictraveler; January 23rd, 2013 at 09:23 AM.
for the people that say we have no connection with other apes and we are a special kind , it would be a little difficult to explain how can we mate with chimpanzeesHow would it be a "proof" of evolution?
E.g. the ones who don't know what they're talking about.
Quite simple: they'll claim "it was done in a lab - scientists messed about with things, it doesn't mean that we and chimps have anything in common any more than that experiment that produced a mouse with an ear on its back does".it would be a little difficult to explain how can we mate with chimpanzees
yeah but that is what a really crazy ones would say, i was thinking about majority, the people who are not that insane or just uninformed and similiar, because this experiment would be heard around the world, and it would be expained to normal people
The evidence in favor of evolution is already overwhelming.
If they aren't accepting that, they won't accept a humanzee or whatever. They'll just cuss about it.
The politics aside, and the ethics of it aside, we would not learn very much from a human chimp hybrid.
Given the nature of its life, the question I'd stand by is the ethical one. Is it worth what manner of life it would have, to simply see what we could reasonably surmise without actively crossing the species?
Short version: the ones that NEED "convincing" are never going to be convinced - their minds are made up because God told them what to think.
The ones who already know don't require further evidence (and it wouldn't be evidence: scientists can do all sorts of stuff in labs - if people could understand why it's "proof" they don't need the experiment performing).
Those who are in the middle ground aren't going to be swayed by a Frankenstein's monster - if they really want to know they'll find out. If they're not botheerd either way why "force it on them"?
It would, in the end, be a news item on a par with the skateboarding parrot...
i dont think that it would be on a par with the skateboarding parrot, but ok, maybe you are right, maybe we shouldn't see it for the ethical reasons, but i would still like to see if it was possible
It wouldn't be 'proof' of anything. It would be difficult, expensive, morally ambiguous, and just plain creepy.
Ilya Ivanovich Ivanov was the first to actually attempt to create a human–ape hybrid. As early as 1910 he had given a presentation to the World Congress of Zoologists in Graz, Austria in which he described the possibility of obtaining such a hybrid through artificial insemination.
In 1924, while working at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, Ivanov obtained permission from the Institute's directors to use its experimental primate station in Kindia, French Guinea, for such an experiment. Ivanov attempted to gain backing for his project from the Soviet government. He dispatched letters to the People's Commissar on Education and Science Anatoliy Vasilievich Lunacharsky and to other officials. Ivanov's proposal finally sparked the interest of Nikolai Petrovich Gorbunov, the head of the Department of Scientific Institutions. In September 1925 Gorbunov helped allocate US$10,000 to the USSR Academy of Sciences (now the Russian Academy of Sciences) for Ivanov's human-ape hybridization experiments in Africa.
In March 1926 Ivanov arrived at the Kindia facility, but stayed only a month without success. The Kindia site, it turned out, had no sexually mature chimpanzees. He returned to France where he arranged through correspondence with French Guinea's colonial governor to set up experiments at the botanical gardens in Conakry.
Ivanov reached Conakry in November 1926 accompanied by his son, also named Ilya, who would assist him in his experiments. Ivanov supervised the capture of adult chimpanzees in the interior of the colony, which were brought to Conakry and kept in cages in the botanical gardens. On February 28, 1927, Ivanov inseminated two female chimpanzees with his own sperm. On June 25, his son inseminated a third chimpanzee with his sperm. The Ivanovs left Africa in July with thirteen chimps, including the three used in his experiments. They already knew before leaving that the first two chimpanzees had failed to become pregnant. The third died in France, and was also found not to have been pregnant. The remaining chimps were sent to a new primate station at Sukhumi.
Although Ivanov attempted to organize the insemination of human females with chimpanzee sperm in Guinea, these plans met with resistance from the French colonial government and there is no evidence such an experiment was arranged there.
Upon his return to the Soviet Union in 1927, Ivanov began an effort to organize hybridization experiments at Sukhumi using ape sperm and human females. Eventually in 1929, through the help of Gorbunov, he obtained the support of the Society of Materialist Biologists, a group associated with the Communist Academy. In the spring of 1929 the Society set up a commission to plan Ivanov's experiments at Sukhumi. They decided that at least five volunteer women would be needed for the project. However, in June 1929, before any inseminations had taken place, Ivanov learned that the only postpubescent male ape remaining at Sukhumi (an orangutan) had died. A new set of chimps would not arrive at Sukhumi until the summer of 1930.
source: wiki
I just lost my faith to the humanity
Last edited by IronFantom; January 30th, 2013 at 07:49 AM. Reason: fix text size
Well that has to be morally unethical. A hybrid could simply be seen as a badly deformed human. A cruel faith, and consider it more than criminal to deform the development of a human deliberately. Also consider the probable psychological issues for the minders, after gaining a parents bond to the hybrid/deformed human.
A human-chimp hybrid would not be a deformed human no more than a horse-zebra hybrid is a deformed horse. If it criminal to deform the development of a human than is also criminal to also allow the development of a deformed human. This would imply that not aborting a developmentally deformed human is criminal. The quality of an individual life does not depend on species as there are many animals that have a better quality of life than some humans.An interesting question is how much language ability would a human-chimp hybrid have? There are some chimps who have language skills exceeding those of some humans.
Not to be trite, but....huh?
How to Make A Humanzee - YouTube Check out this video by scishow, it says some stuff about it!
As this post demonstrates.
If we actually needed to preform this experiment, which I can't see how we do, we would first attempt to cross breed other great apes. Once you can successfully breed chimp-atangs or Orang-orillas and the technology has been shown to work, then we could attempt the human crossbreed. It would still be unethical, but heck, when has that stopped anyone? Chimp-hounds are really cute and a dog with hands could be trained to do interesting things.
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