Thread: The pain is all in your mind

Suppose you herniated a disk in your back which permenently presses onto your spinal cord/sciati nerve. You go to your doctor the umpteenth time for a script refill but this time he says "Hmmm. I think the pain is all in your mind so therefore I don't be refill your prescription for pain medication ever agai. Besides, you're going to get addicted if you stay on them." You go home and spend the next five years crawling around the floor to go to the kitchen to eat, the bathroom, the TV room etc. because the pain is so horrifically terrible that you can't even stand up. The pain is so great it messes deeply with your mind and your emotions to the point that you can no longer think sraight and all you want to do is die.

What do you think you'd need to do to be able to convince your doctor that he should put you back on the pain meds which in all your experience keeps the pain mind at worst?

What on God's green Earth could it even mean for the pain to be "all in your mind"? Who cares about geography in such matters? I.e. who really cares about the geometric location of the "pain" in/on your body when its a demonstrated fact that the pain meds makes living quite intollerable regardless of its geographical location?

Thanks. And yes. This actually is what my doctor claims, i.e. the pain is "all in my mind." Th is is not a joke or something I made up. He's just that ignorant.

Next question: who would care they were addicted to pain killers or not so long as you used them correctly?

A herniated disk is no laughing matter.

So, why would a doctor ever say such a thing? Well, he may have a reason:
Chronic pain may be all in your head - Health Report - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
In article form:
Why chronic pain is all in your head: Early brain changes predict which patients develop chronic pain

The frustration for the patient is that they are in pain and they just want it alleviated.
Frankly, I think that alleviating the pain should be the priority, even as the studies are performed to find the most viable and healthy method for coping with pain. It is more medically ethical- a desperate patient may turn to illegal sources or extremes.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

A herniated disk is no laughing matter.

You can sure say that again!

Originally Posted by Neverfly

So, why would a doctor ever say such a thing?

Since it was only I who posted before this post I’m like to point out that I never asked such a question, nor do I walk around wondering why doctors say such dumb things.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Well, he may have a reason:..

I gotta ask at this point. Did you read my post and the articles you posted very carefully? If so then let me make it clear that the damage/cause is still present. This is not a thread whose topic is about pain from injuries which have long healed themselves. My degenerative disk disease has most certainly not healed. The damage/cause is still present and possibly getting worse. The disk is still herniated.

The articles you referenced is about pain from injuries which have already healed.

Neverfly - Although your links were regarding something different, i.e. pain from injuries which have already healed, I found them quite interesting. Thank you!

Among those articles there was an abstract regarding an article I wanted to read about the mind/pain connection. Can anybody help me find it/them?

Hi Pete not sure as to the exact article you are referring to, but what I can tell you is there are plenty of articles and information about using hypnosis to control pain, this in some cases can be far more effective than any particular chemical pain killers.

Whilst hypnosis used to be considered alternative medicine it is now actually being prescribed quite requarly now on the NHS and especially for patients who can't take normal pain killing medicine.

Hypnosis and pain control - Uncommon Knowledge

Hypnosis for the Relief and Control of Pain

Pain Control, Pain Management with Hypnosis. Free from chronic back pain, Headaches, arthritis at Peter Field Hypnotherapy

With todays MRI you can see the problem very clearly, I know, I have degenerative disc disease and needed to have epidurals every 2 months, then a morphine pump, now percocet 2 to 3 times daily as need. The MRI's clearly show the vertebrae and the lack of disc that are no longer there so the doctors know I'm in trouble and help me with what they can and what I can stand.

You might also find these articles of interest:

Hypnotic analgesia for combat-related spinal ... [Am J Clin Hypn. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

The effect of hypnotic suggestion on spinal cord injury pain | DeepDyve

James Braid | History of Hypnosis

Hey pmb, sorry to hear about your troubles man.

I've heard stuff about a large part of pain being due to anxiety. We expect something to hurt and worry about it hurting and this magnifies the discomfort.

I'm not going to claim that all pain can be 'shut off' using the mind, though under hypnosis ect I expect it probably can. I don't know about your dooctor and i'm sure your diagnosis of him/her is acurate. however, in defense of your dr, when they say 'pain is in the mind' I don't think they are talking about it's geographical location. They might be talking about you bringing on and amplifying the pain with your own anxiety and worry. So in this sense muh of it is brought on by your mind... In the same way that you can forget pain under hypnosis, you can also make it a lot worse by giving it the focus and attention of your mind.

Still, we'r not all masters of self hypnosis and mind over matter, so your doctor not helping you seems a little callous. I certainly wouldn't want a doctor to tell me 'it's all in the mind' if I was in severe discomfort.

I only intend to say pmb that with your own mind, you can go someway towards reducing the discomfort you feel. I think as with hypnosis, beleif plays a part. You must beleive that you can control the pain and conquor it before you will notice any benefits. In the same way you must beleive in a hypnotist and you must beleive in God before you get any benefits, I suspose.

God luck.

Originally Posted by pmb

Next question: who would care they were addicted to pain killers or not so long as you used them correctly?

Obviously better than pain, but that wouldn't be good. There was a person who spoke at my school about drugs. He used to be addicted to marijuana. Now not doing marijuana/relaxing seems to be all he thinks about, because that's what it takes to prevent a relapse. Imagine breaking an addiction.
"Of course it's all in your head. But that doesn't mean it's not real." Or something.
-Dumbledore.
Everything we experience is in our heads, but that doesn't make a difference.

Originally Posted by question for you

Hey pmb, sorry to hear about your troubles man.

I've heard stuff about a large part of pain being due to anxiety. We expect something to hurt and worry about it hurting and this magnifies the discomfort.

I'm not going to claim that all pain can be 'shut off' using the mind, though under hypnosis ect I expect it probably can. I don't know about your dooctor and i'm sure your diagnosis of him/her is acurate. however, in defense of your dr, when they say 'pain is in the mind' I don't think they are talking about it's geographical location. They might be talking about you bringing on and amplifying the pain with your own anxiety and worry. So in this sense muh of it is brought on by your mind... In the same way that you can forget pain under hypnosis, you can also make it a lot worse by giving it the focus and attention of your mind.

Still, we'r not all masters of self hypnosis and mind over matter, so your doctor not helping you seems a little callous. I certainly wouldn't want a doctor to tell me 'it's all in the mind' if I was in severe discomfort.

I only intend to say pmb that with your own mind, you can go someway towards reducing the discomfort you feel. I think as with hypnosis, beleif plays a part. You must beleive that you can control the pain and conquor it before you will notice any benefits. In the same way you must beleive in a hypnotist and you must beleive in God before you get any benefits, I suspose.

God luck.

Hey QFY, I have been listening to some of the discussions on the forum but have not taken part, you know, taking a pause to preserve the over use of the brain. However I have missed some of your comments and wisdom, I have just noticed this one on pain being in the mind.

I too must think that the doctor has made a mistake in not explaning what he meant by the "pain is in the mind". In reality everything is in the mind, we have the ability to control the mind. I think the doctors response should have been, yes you have pain which is created in the mind, but it can be controlled by the same mind.


I have two slipped disks, and I live without pain medication. I know my pain because I have studied it. I know when they are going to come because of some environmental or other changes. I have tuned my mind to look elsewhere when the pain gets to a certain level. when I do that my concentration levels sink from the pain to the change I have induced. This as you have eluded to is not easy for everyone but can be achieved. Mind is the central point of all that is within the human, the most we can do is to control it. To tell someone who is not used to seeing the mind as the ultimate tool that his or her pain is in the mind will only bring frustration and capitulation. There is always a method to the madness.

I also have sciatica following back pain which occurred over a week-long period. It feels so uncomfortable and painful that it defies description. I am performing exercises to decrease the pain, but the sciatica is going to take a bit longer. I have tried self hypnosis but need to repeat my script in order to see a change. Good luck mate, whatever you try to do.
How to Perform Self Hypnosis: 10 steps (with pictures) - wikiHow

Originally Posted by Mother/father

Originally Posted by question for you

I've heard stuff about a large part of pain being due to anxiety. We expect something to hurt and worry about it hurting and this magnifies the discomfort.
however, in defense of your dr, when they say 'pain is in the mind' I don't think they are talking about it's geographical location. They might be talking about you bringing on and amplifying the pain with your own anxiety and worry. So in this sense muh of it is brought on by your mind...
I certainly wouldn't want a doctor to tell me 'it's all in the mind' if I was in severe discomfort.

God luck.

I too must think that the doctor has made a mistake in not explaining what he meant by the "pain is in the mind".

Pete, both of these folks nailed why I posted the links.
When one is in pain, patience is not quick to follow.
Thing one: The pain is real. And the point is to find the solution.
Your attitude about the pain is extremely important. Yet, when in pain, having a happy go lucky cheerful attitude about it is next to impossible.

The point of it is to think (when you can) about all the factors.

Originally Posted by Mother/father

Hey QFY, I have been listening to some of the discussions on the forum but have not taken part, you know, taking a pause to preserve the over use of the brain. However I have missed some of your comments and wisdom, I have just noticed this one on pain being in the mind.

MF! Long time no see my friend! I have wondered how you are and if you still use TSF, glad to see you.

Preservation is very important! I am worried about over use and repetitive use of neurological pathways myself... TSF sometimes makes me feel like my brain is 'setting' solid, becoming merely a crustation where once it was supple, plyable and youthful grey matter. I certainly don't think whatever radiation this screen pumps into my eyes is doing me much good.

Originally Posted by Mother/father

I too must think that the doctor has made a mistake in not explaning what he meant by the "pain is in the mind". In reality everything is in the mind, we have the ability to control the mind. I think the doctors response should have been, yes you have pain which is created in the mind, but it can be controlled by the same mind.


I have two slipped disks, and I live without pain medication. I know my pain because I have studied it. I know when they are going to come because of some environmental or other changes. I have tuned my mind to look elsewhere when the pain gets to a certain level. when I do that my concentration levels sink from the pain to the change I have induced. This as you have eluded to is not easy for everyone but can be achieved. Mind is the central point of all that is within the human, the most we can do is to control it. To tell someone who is not used to seeing the mind as the ultimate tool that his or her pain is in the mind will only bring frustration and capitulation. There is always a method to the madness.

Well I agree with everything M/F say's here. I hope the OP is able to get something from this.

I personally have never slipped a disk as far as i'm aware, so I hesitated to be too confident aboout the ability of mind over matter. But being a sportsman and a crazy kid, I have felt many types of fairly severe pain and I feel it is largelly in the mind. Ok there is no dennying that when you tear a ligament or fall off a bike, it will hurt. Whether this is because you expect it to hurt or not, I do not know.

But either way, the pain is severe for a moment, but then it reduces considerably. Often playing footbal I have hurt myself, limped around for a minute, then been able to continue playing as if nothing is wrong. Later that day, the pain comes back, it might even prevent me from playing again for a few weeks because I have injured myself further by playing on... but at the time the pain completely disapears... I put this down to natural pain killing chemicals in the brain/body, adrenalin maybe. But it might also be mind over matter, the fact that I want to play and I want the pain to disapear might help. The fact that i'm pumped up is goign to mean that my brain creates adrenalin etc. If I sat there crying because my ankle hurts, concentrating on the pain and being worried about the damage done, then the pain would probably be too much to be able to play on with.

I also think many headaches are brought on by stress... get the stressful thoughts out of your head, and the headache should go away. Get too used to painkillers... and the brain might lose it's ability to produce it's own natural painkilling chemicals.

Thats just my opinion.

Originally Posted by question for you

Originally Posted by Mother/father

Hey QFY, I have been listening to some of the discussions on the forum but have not taken part, you know, taking a pause to preserve the over use of the brain. However I have missed some of your comments and wisdom, I have just noticed this one on pain being in the mind.

MF! Long time no see my friend! I have wondered how you are and if you still use TSF, glad to see you.

Preservation is very important! I am worried about over use and repetitive use of neurological pathways myself... TSF sometimes makes me feel like my brain is 'setting' solid, becoming merely a crustation where once it was supple, plyable and youthful grey matter. I certainly don't think whatever radiation this screen pumps into my eyes is doing me much good.

Originally Posted by Mother/father

I too must think that the doctor has made a mistake in not explaning what he meant by the "pain is in the mind". In reality everything is in the mind, we have the ability to control the mind. I think the doctors response should have been, yes you have pain which is created in the mind, but it can be controlled by the same mind.


I have two slipped disks, and I live without pain medication. I know my pain because I have studied it. I know when they are going to come because of some environmental or other changes. I have tuned my mind to look elsewhere when the pain gets to a certain level. when I do that my concentration levels sink from the pain to the change I have induced. This as you have eluded to is not easy for everyone but can be achieved. Mind is the central point of all that is within the human, the most we can do is to control it. To tell someone who is not used to seeing the mind as the ultimate tool that his or her pain is in the mind will only bring frustration and capitulation. There is always a method to the madness.

Well I agree with everything M/F say's here. I hope the OP is able to get something from this.

I personally have never slipped a disk as far as i'm aware, so I hesitated to be too confident aboout the ability of mind over matter. But being a sportsman and a crazy kid, I have felt many types of fairly severe pain and I feel it is largelly in the mind. Ok there is no dennying that when you tear a ligament or fall off a bike, it will hurt. Whether this is because you expect it to hurt or not, I do not know.

But either way, the pain is severe for a moment, but then it reduces considerably. Often playing footbal I have hurt myself, limped around for a minute, then been able to continue playing as if nothing is wrong. Later that day, the pain comes back, it might even prevent me from playing again for a few weeks because I have injured myself further by playing on... but at the time the pain completely disapears... I put this down to natural pain killing chemicals in the brain/body, adrenalin maybe. But it might also be mind over matter, the fact that I want to play and I want the pain to disapear might help. The fact that i'm pumped up is goign to mean that my brain creates adrenalin etc. If I sat there crying because my ankle hurts, concentrating on the pain and being worried about the damage done, then the pain would probably be too much to be able to play on with.

I also think many headaches are brought on by stress... get the stressful thoughts out of your head, and the headache should go away. Get too used to painkillers... and the brain might lose it's ability to produce it's own natural painkilling chemicals.

Thats just my opinion.

Yea man, nice to be talking back to you too.

Just ask any good athlete what they concentrate on when they are running in a race. Most will tell you they concentrate on winning, the moment they concentrate on running they lose the race. I am one of those who have to go through many things to be convinced, and I am convinced that anything can be controlled by the mind.

Love, Hate, Paradice, Hell, God, a slipped disk, a broken marriage, as I see it all in the mind. We have only access to controlling it.
Some have faith in money, women, things, I say power in the mind, the real wealth is in the mind. I have stopped taking tablets although I was told I would have to be taking them for the rest of my life about 20 a day. I told myself that death is only in my mind and so it left my body and entered my mind, so did the tablets. No joke man.
Shining light on anything brings conscouness to it, sometimes we have to manipulate ourselves to not bring conscouness to whatever it is that is ailing us, as paradoxical as it might sound it helps the cituation. A good thing to have is a flexable mind.

Originally Posted by Mother/father

I say power in the mind, the real wealth is in the mind.

Thats deep man! The real Gold is Knowledge.

Originally Posted by Mother/father

I told myself that death is only in my mind and so it left my body and entered my mind, so did the tablets. No joke man.

Thats even deeper. I really do think what ever the mind can percieve, the body can achieve.

Originally Posted by Mother/father

A good thing to have is a flexable mind.

That is even deeper and more profound than your other comments! very true. Mental flexibility has to be one of, if not the key mechanism in successful evolution. The ability to be flexible and adapt.

Pain is no laughing matter, and in many ways, the cause is irrelevant.

Potent pain killer drugs kill pain of all kinds, including pain that is "all in the head". Research shows that drugs like paracetamol and codeine etc work to reduce emotional pain also, including things like grief.

If you are feeling pain, bypass your doctor and go straight to a pain clinic. You will find your local pain clinic on Google. They will assess you and prescribe what you need. Remember to alternate drugs, since the human body acclimates to drugs, and the pain killers will lose their effect over time, if you keep using just one. You should not ever use one pain killer on a regular basis for more than two weeks. Switch around.

Originally Posted by skeptic

Pain is no laughing matter, and in many ways, the cause is irrelevant.

Potent pain killer drugs kill pain of all kinds, including pain that is "all in the head". Research shows that drugs like paracetamol and codeine etc work to reduce emotional pain also, including things like grief.

If you are feeling pain, bypass your doctor and go straight to a pain clinic. You will find your local pain clinic on Google. They will assess you and prescribe what you need. Remember to alternate drugs, since the human body acclimates to drugs, and the pain killers will lose their effect over time, if you keep using just one. You should not ever use one pain killer on a regular basis for more than two weeks. Switch around.

I disagree. All, or nealy all, effecive pain killers are opiod based and that's what the pain killers are that are prescribe. There's nothing wrong with staying on the same pain killer. All the doctor has to do is keep increasing the amount of pain killer. In fact this is what pain clinics often do.

Changing to new medication doesnt do anything special. Pain medication is increased on a nearly constant rate. There's nothing wrong with doing it like that either. From what I recall from the pain clinic, if you change medications you'll find that you're at the same level you were when you stopped taking it. Pain meds for chronic pain are taken just as they were they were terminated.

For example; if the amount of oxycodin one is on is, say, 40 mg every twelve hours then the doctor shouldn't have to make an in increase for six to two twelve months. Then the doctor should raise it by the and then say 20 mg from to 60 mg twince a day. Then if the pain killer becomes less effective agan the amount that the patient is on can indrease by, say, 40 mg to 89 mg twice a day. And on and on. Eventually the amount can get up to 380 mg twice a day. Then one might want to change to, say, dilaudid and go from there. etc.

Sorry, pmb.
That is just not correct. The human body adapts to what we put into it. That is why people who drink a lot of booze will need more and more booze to get the same high. The same is true for every other drug. We adapt to drugs in our system, and the same amount of the same drug has less and less effect over time.

Research has shown that pain killing drugs, like paracetamol, lose their effect over time. When I suggested 2 weeks at most on one drug, that is not my idea. That is what the researchers suggest, to avoid the body acclimating to the drug to the point where the drug loses its potency.

Worse is if you stay on one drug too long and get addicted. Then you find removal of the drug can cause serious withdrawal effects.

Originally Posted by skeptic

Sorry, pmb.
That is just not correct. The human body adapts to what we put into it. That is why people who drink a lot of booze will need more and more booze to get the same high. The same is true for every other drug. We adapt to drugs in our system, and the same amount of the same drug has less and less effect over time.

Research has shown that pain killing drugs, like paracetamol, lose their effect over time. When I suggested 2 weeks at most on one drug, that is not my idea. That is what the researchers suggest, to avoid the body acclimating to the drug to the point where the drug loses its potency.

Worse is if you stay on one drug too long and get addicted. Then you find removal of the drug can cause serious withdrawal effects.

This is how I know it, if you take anything too long the body will definately get used to it.

When I suggested 2 weeks at most on one drug, that is not my idea. That is what the researchers suggest, to avoid the body acclimating to the drug to the point where the drug loses its potency.

Yeah. Bummer. I tend to take codeine for only 2 days straight at the most, and I don't always use a day's maximum dosage. Then I have at least a day and a half off it. So in a fortnight I might have 8 or 9 days when I take at least some, and struggle through the other days. It isn't fun. But even if I take only 4 days straight of full dosage I can get a withdrawal caused headache the day I stop the medication. And it turns out you need at least 2 full days off if you want the full effect for a next dose. So I try to keep myself always within a day of access to the full benefit of restarting. (I think I need some kind of wall chart. When the pain is bad, the memory for when I have and haven't taken the tabs is pretty poor.) Tramadine (a weak opiate but superb pain medication) was wonderful while I was taking it but I'm one of the lucky 10% who develop an allergy.

Originally Posted by adelady

When I suggested 2 weeks at most on one drug, that is not my idea. That is what the researchers suggest, to avoid the body acclimating to the drug to the point where the drug loses its potency.

Yeah. Bummer. I tend to take codeine for only 2 days straight at the most, and I don't always use a day's maximum dosage. Then I have at least a day and a half off it. So in a fortnight I might have 8 or 9 days when I take at least some, and struggle through the other days. It isn't fun. But even if I take only 4 days straight of full dosage I can get a withdrawal caused headache the day I stop the medication. And it turns out you need at least 2 full days off if you want the full effect for a next dose. So I try to keep myself always within a day of access to the full benefit of restarting. (I think I need some kind of wall chart. When the pain is bad, the memory for when I have and haven't taken the tabs is pretty poor.) Tramadine (a weak opiate but superb pain medication) was wonderful while I was taking it but I'm one of the lucky 10% who develop an allergy.

What do you call that, mind therapy with the aid of medication?

I call it chronic pain, sometimes unbearable pain, intermittently eased a little with medication I can tolerate.

My sympathies, Adelady.
Have you ever consulted with a pain clinic? They have a number of strings to their bow in how to control pain.

Have you ever consulted with a pain clinic?

Yeah. I got the original Tramadol prescription from an anaesthetist who specialises in pain management. That was fantastic while I could take it. He also offers the option of ketamine infusion which is probably still on the table but a bit scary. (My nurse daughter tells me that, when it works, it's very good but the process itself is pretty demanding and there's no guarantee of success.)

The same daughter did some training and study towards additional nursing quals - in pain management - and got me started on one method. Apparently it works well for a lot of people, but that's really demanding. You basically have to commit to doing usual, ordinary daily activities, and then Stop! as soon as you feel the first twinge of pain. Take a break and then get back to it and Stop! every time the pain comes back. This of course is meant to overcome the usual failing of forcing yourself to get this done. (Then spending the next couple of days flat out in bed alternately swearing and weeping.) But doing 10 minutes of pretty feeble gardening or housework then stopping for 30 mins and repeating the cycle really is pretty hard. I mentioned it to my GP and she said she hadn't had any patients succeed on it.

You need to remember I don't just have joint, muscle and nerve problems, I also have a crook thyroid. And one of the less endearing aspects of hypothyroidism is a lowered pain threshold. I used to think I had low pain tolerance. In fact I have quite high tolerance for pain, I just get more pain than most other people would with the same illness and condition/syndromes as I have. The biggest problem is that you get so used to it that you don't even notice how much it affects you. My husband often surprises me with more than his usual kindness when I wake up - and then he brings me coffee and tablets on a plate - and tells me I need to take them. Why? I haven't asked for them. No, he tells me, but you were all grey/blue around the lips while you were asleep. Oh, OK. Then, of course, I do notice.

Again, my sympathy.

My brother in law is in a similar situation, though without the thyroid problem. He refuses to go to a pain clinic, though. A nurse I know tells me that, in cases like his, methadone is made available. That is very potent. It is somewhat addictive, but that is not an issue if you are going to be taking it for life.

The weird thing is that my brother in law got amazing relief from Vioxx. When it was banned, he was livid! He was quite willing to take the heart disease risk in return for the freedom from pain. He said that if it caused him to die of a heart attack, at least he would have a few years with little pain first, and that was a price he was very willing to pay.

Have you ever consulted with a pain clinic?

Yeah. I got the original Tramadol prescription from an anaesthetist who specialises in pain management. That was fantastic while I could take it. He also offers the option of ketamine infusion which is probably still on the table but a bit scary. (My nurse daughter tells me that, when it works, it's very good but the process itself is pretty demanding and there's no guarantee of success.)

The same daughter did some training and study towards additional nursing quals - in pain management - and got me started on one method. Apparently it works well for a lot of people, but that's really demanding. You basically have to commit to doing usual, ordinary daily activities, and then Stop! as soon as you feel the first twinge of pain. Take a break and then get back to it and Stop! every time the pain comes back. This of course is meant to overcome the usual failing of forcing yourself to get this done. (Then spending the next couple of days flat out in bed alternately swearing and weeping.) But doing 10 minutes of pretty feeble gardening or housework then stopping for 30 mins and repeating the cycle really is pretty hard. I mentioned it to my GP and she said she hadn't had any patients succeed on it.

You need to remember I don't just have joint, muscle and nerve problems, I also have a crook thyroid. And one of the less endearing aspects of hypothyroidism is a lowered pain threshold. I used to think I had low pain tolerance. In fact I have quite high tolerance for pain, I just get more pain than most other people would with the same illness and condition/syndromes as I have. The biggest problem is that you get so used to it that you don't even notice how much it affects you. My husband often surprises me with more than his usual kindness when I wake up - and then he brings me coffee and tablets on a plate - and tells me I need to take them. Why? I haven't asked for them. No, he tells me, but you were all grey/blue around the lips while you were asleep. Oh, OK. Then, of course, I do notice.