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Thread: Could there be a gene for truth?

  1. #1 Could there be a gene for truth? 
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    This is purely speculation but still fun I think, in the debate (I use the term loosely) between religion and atheism a question comes up something like "What if there's a gene that promotes religion because of the psychological placebo affect of believing a divine being cares about you, and you'll live for all eternity in paradise, making it beneficial to initially believe?" For the sake of argument let's assume it's true.

    We have consciousness so we can make that decision for ourselves once we learn about the truth, and be happier people but what could be possible reasons for having a gene that prefers the hard truth over a convenient lie? Could there be "hard-truth alleles, and easy-lie alleles?"

    If this doesn't make sense that's cool too.


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    You may have something. We have a regular stream of posters who propose ideas much weirder than yours without an ounce of evidence, but a thorough conviction that they are right and science has been misguided for hundreds of years.

    The hard truth allele would give the advantage that it would be more difficult for reality to sneak up behind you and bite your ass off.


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    Ah! Thank you, I've thought about this and could never get a single answer.
    So because while it may seem like it's protecting you, it's actually giving you a false sense of security. While you're walking down the street humming "Joy to The World", you get hit by a bus. Note to future genes: pay attention to reality, even if it makes you sad and lonely.
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    I rather doubt there's any hardwiring related to it at all.

    It's all about intelligence and social interaction. Being able to lie is about being able to understand that another person's mind is out there and is different from your own. Unrelenting, unvarnished truth all day every day would seriously undercut social bonds. We find childish 'honesty' either embarrassing or refreshing. We find teenage bluntness either offensive or socially inept.

    It's a sign of maturity to exercise judgement about how to say unwelcome things with a bit of grace and tact, and at other times to exaggerate a reaction to forestall someone from going further with something that really shouldn't be said in front of children/ parents/ subordinates. Some people call that lying. I call it the right thing to do.
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    I think it's also something you acquire during your lifetime. BUT... as always, maybe it's easier to acquire if you have a certain allele. Though i really doubt that any allele would only affect truth or lies. I'd say if a gene makes it easier to lie, it would have other concequences. Like lack of empathy, or being selfcentered. Opposed to having greater difficulties lieing, in being to concerned about others, of having increddible moodswings, can't handle emotions, etc.

    I'd say, less thoughs about the results of the lie, is less trouble to lie itself. So a person who only cares about himself will have an easier time lying. I'd say, you partly true then... More then i could say for most others who post radical ideas on this forum. So i agree with galt on this one as well ..
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    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    This is not exactly what you're saying, but there are certainly genetic factors that influence our ability to relate to others and to integrate more or less with society (e.g. those on the autism spectrum will have a harder time reading facial expressions [1]). So even if lying itself is a purely social convention, there would be genetic influence on your ability to detect or perpetrate lies.

    To get more at your question though, you can turn to animal communication studies. Check out this piece by Dawkins & Krebs. Sorry for the bad quality scan, but it is well worth reading! Anyway, the point is that lying is social, but by no means peculiar to the human animal. Meaning that in nature sometimes those who lie will live. A great example given here is a bird that nests in the ground, and makes a noise like a rattle snake to scare off predators. Dawkins and Krebs seem overly cautious about not attributing intelligence to animals, interpreting everything as strictly evolutionary, but you can take that or leave it. The point remains the same. Lying happens! Is there a gene for that? Er... I dunno. That's a tough one. But there is certainly a meme for it, if nothing else.

    EDIT: I have no idea what book or journal this Dawkins/Krebs piece is from. I came across it when reading up on semiotics and found it fascinating. If anyone can identify the source, it'd be much appreciated!
    "The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is... doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting sh*t dead wrong."

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    Deception works in game theory. And thus in evolution.

    Layman,

    As to your original question:
    "What if there's a gene that promotes religion because of the psychological placebo affect of believing a divine being cares about you, and you'll live for all eternity in paradise, making it beneficial to initially believe?"
    I don't believe there is a gene that promotes religion.

    But you are definitely on to something important. There is a "psychological placebo affect" that most people are unaware of. Here is a theory I proposed for the origin and evolution of religion. It is a part of a larger construct in social theory I call the "Dark Thesis":

    1. Sin produces Guilt.
    2. Guilt produces Religion.
    3. Religion brings absolution from Sin.

    Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

    Religion is an expression of man, the tool maker. And religion has proven to be a highly effective tool, much more important to our species than the wheel. It functions to help us feel that we have dealt with something important, so that we can actually avoid dealing with it, and just carry on as before. It simply validates behaviors that are distasteful, yet unavoidable to all social animals. It helps us relieve the extreme cognitive dissonance necessarily produced by everyday life.

    The reason that we must work so hard to rationalize sin is that, in order for our species to develop complex socialization in the first place, we had to have an individual sense of basic fairness to drive reciprocal relationships. That individual sense of fairplay is what neuroscientists and social psychologists call the "moral instinct". Check out this cool article by Seven Pinker:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    We are all born with a basic moral instinct. But what we call "morality" is a very different thing, separate and distinct from the "moral instinct". Morality grows out of the moral instinct, but it is really just another social tool, with a very specific function. Here is how I like to say it:

    Morality makes indignation righteous. Righteous indignation justifies violence. Thus morality simply creates a prophylactic pre-absolution from sin. And that brings us back to the Scapegoat Mechanism, and all of our inescapable participation in it, and collective guilt because of it. It is the "original" sin in my model.

    Steven Pinker wrote:Joshua Greene, a philosopher and cognitive neuroscientist, suggests that evolution equipped people with a revulsion to manhandling an innocent person. This instinct, he suggests, tends to overwhelm any utilitarian calculus that would tot up the lives saved and lost. The impulse against roughing up a fellow human would explain other examples in which people abjure killing one to save many, like euthanizing a hospital patient to harvest his organs and save five dying patients in need of transplants, or throwing someone out of a crowded lifeboat to keep it afloat.

    In order to be a good theory, the Dark Thesis has to explain the origin of the Moral Instinct as well. It does just that, with this key mimetic insight:

    If the moral instinct is the root of morality, what is the root of the moral instinct? The elegantly simple answer is fear. Properly speaking, mimetic fear. The roughing up of something that looks like me, produces the real and justifiable fear that it could be me next time around.

    The strength of our moral instinct determines what kind of society humans can structure. This is the "Goldy Locks and the porage" principle in evolution:

    1. Eewww. This moral instinct is too sweet (i.e. sees bad treatment of brothers and sisters as a bad thing). Another group will evolve a moral instinct that is less moral to take advantage. Though the overly sweet (more moral than Jesus) first group is my personal favorite of the three, they will, nonetheless, die out, along with their goody two shoes attitude.

    2. Yuck. This moral instinct is too sour (i.e. sees bad treatment of brothers and sisters as a personal benefit). This disgusting animal will not develop a civilization. The society would self destruct each time the complexity could not rise. If it could avoid self destruction and reach a high enough state of complexity, depending on resources, it could become fascistic enough to resemble a bee hive or an ant hill, with the individual completely subsumed by the group.

    3. Mmmmm. This moral instinct is just right (i.e. invents religion to white wash and justify violence). This is the perfect balance that has made the human species so successful that we have bled the planet of it's resources and set in motion our own near term extinction. Yipeee.

    The human species lost it's innocence with the invention of religion. But it bestowed the benefits of increased complexity that lead to the rise of civilization itself.

    The Scapegoat Mechanism is the chief means of social control of the individual by the group. It operates all around us all the time. But our brains are actually wired not to notice!

    Layman, you also said:
    We have consciousness so we can make that decision for ourselves once we learn about the truth, and be happier people...
    This is a variant on "the truth shall set you free". But I'm not sure that our consciousness is more than a rationalization. I don't believe we have the free will to decide anything important. And I seriously doubt the truth will make people very happy. We'll just have to wait and see.

    ---Futilitist

    Last edited by Futilitist; October 19th, 2012 at 07:20 PM. Reason: I thought of something I wanted to add.
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    Since you have already opened your own topic, I'll move your additional posts and responses to them there.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Thank you very much Futilitist, I appreciate the effort you put in to answering my question, and pointing me in the right direction.
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    I would be very surprised if a gene for truth or religion is found. It is far more likely that the tendency to easily believe or alternatively to be mostly skeptical is a very complex trait that will be controlled by numerous genes and can be influenced by many environmental factors. Thus, I agree that there is probably some genetic component to the trait, but guess the genes that control it are probably more directly linked to intelligence etc.

    However, this position of mine doesn't really deal with the evolutionary aspect of your question. Would there be a better chance of procreating successfully if such a trait was present? My opinion is that believing some things blindly and also being religious probably had a huge advantage for humans over many thousands of years. The increased social acceptance that those traits would ensure must have increased chances of survival significantly. There is however a bit of contradiction inherent to this view, because if it is true that intelligence generally increases survival in many practical ways, it clashes with the fact that intelligence generally decreases the willingness to believe unproven things, which decreases social acceptance, which decreases survival chances.

    I think this might be the origin of the phenomenon that some scientist today keep religious thoughts and scientific thoughts completely separate in their minds and lives. They can function extremely well scientifically but still remain theists, mostly for social and sometimes subjective personal reasons. As long as there is no conclusive evidence that some form of deity does not exist (which there probably never will be), they will choose to keep that part of their being alive, even though it has zero influence on their scientific thoughts. In this same way more intelligent people over millenia past have probably mostly kept their social bonds strong by participating in religion and used their intelligence in other aspects of their lives.

    If this speculation by me is correct, your initial post that came down to putting truth/intelligence as mutually exclusive to religion/gullibility, is wrong.
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  12. #11  
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    I think the capacity to lie is absolutely essential - to save your own or someone else's skin.

    Telling the unvarnished truth to an enemy or a bully or an abusive relative is a recipe for injury, maybe death. Much easier to say no, he's not a Christian, not at all. Or no, I don't know where she went or they're not here, they've gone to stay with friends over the river.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    . Much easier to say no, he's not a Christian, not at all. Or no, I don't know where she went or they're not here, they've gone to stay with friends over the river.
    These obscure examples confuse me. Why would somebody save themselves from harm by untruthfully saying that somebody else is not a Christian or that somebody else (who might be hiding in the closet for all I know) went over the river?

    BTW, I'm not missing your point about lying being so important, I'm just perplexed by the examples you used!
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I think the capacity to lie is absolutely essential - to save your own or someone else's skin.

    Telling the unvarnished truth to an enemy or a bully or an abusive relative is a recipe for injury, maybe death. Much easier to say no, he's not a Christian, not at all. Or no, I don't know where she went or they're not here, they've gone to stay with friends over the river.
    I'd say, people would react a lot less aggressive towards certain thoughts if they are more widely used.

    This is a reason i disagree with psychologists. They want me to lie, they lie, they say it's okay. Lieing is not okay. If one has to lie to save one's own skin. It's about a murder/theft/rape or whatever. I know, privacy is still very important. But if nobody would lie, there would be no reason to lie. Lieing keeps itself alive. I'd say, shoot the darn thing.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Is there a gene for snarkiness? Just wondering.
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    Why would somebody save themselves from harm by untruthfully saying that somebody else is not a Christian or that somebody else (who might be hiding in the closet for all I know) went over the river?
    Ask anyone who knows a family with an abusive parent. Neighbours or other relatives have to come up with something to send the enquiring abuser off elsewhere while the family gets to a safer place. Same thing goes for a kid who's being picked on by the school or neighbourhood ruffians. If little sister answers the door or the phone and finds one of these people trying to find the victim, being able to lie about where he is and what he might be doing is a valuable safety skill. Girls and women do it all the time when men are driving or escorting them 'home'. I'd routinely tell a person I wasn't all that confident about to drop me at a house in the next street or round the corner from where I really lived. Lying with a straight face is a very valuable skill.

    As for the Christian thing, I have a mental picture - not sure whether it's from a book or a film/documentary - of soldiers / thugs going door to door to find people of the 'wrong' religion in order to torture or kill them.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Ask anyone who knows a family with an abusive parent. Neighbours or other relatives have to come up with something to send the enquiring abuser off elsewhere while the family gets to a safer place. Same thing goes for a kid who's being picked on by the school or neighbourhood ruffians. If little sister answers the door or the phone and finds one of these people trying to find the victim, being able to lie about where he is and what he might be doing is a valuable safety skill. Girls and women do it all the time when men are driving or escorting them 'home'. I'd routinely tell a person I wasn't all that confident about to drop me at a house in the next street or round the corner from where I really lived. Lying with a straight face is a very valuable skill.
    And thus lieing is a result of another bad thing, in protection of yourself, or somebody else. Then why are there people still here that do bad things, where nobody knows about. Yep Lieing. Without it, there would not be any bad people (none would dare to, except loons), so no need to protect yourself.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Circular argument. You are saying if no one behaved badly then no one would behave badly. I don't think that observation adds to the sum total of human knowledge.
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    There's no lying gene imo. The advantages or disadvantages of lying are utterly dependent on the environment, the social environment since you mostly talk to humans, but
    in a primitive context, you might attach branches as camouflage to conceal yourself from a dear you are hunting with bow and arrow, you are thus lying to the dear about who you are (in a sense), or conceal a trap. In our current monetary and hierarchy based society with its competitive, every-man-for-himself-rat-race, ubiquitous-conflicts-of-interest and predatory culture, lying itself and awareness that others can lie can be useful. Also, if you tell your kids about Santa, without saying he doesnt exist, then you are a lying liar that lies to innocent kids and should be ashamed of himself .
    Oh and another amusing tid bit, the only person I met which presented himself by saying "Im an honest person" was not honest. And it was really odd as I was wondering, why does this guy feel the need to say hes honest, isnt that the default? Fortunately no one's told me so far "Hi, bob, Im your new neighbor and Im not a serial killer" "huh, ok, thats good to know"
    Last edited by icewendigo; October 24th, 2012 at 12:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Circular argument. You are saying if no one behaved badly then no one would behave badly. I don't think that observation adds to the sum total of human knowledge.
    Or it's like, i spray lion repellant to keep the lions out of my yard. There are no lions there because of my repellant...
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Why would somebody save themselves from harm by untruthfully saying that somebody else is not a Christian or that somebody else (who might be hiding in the closet for all I know) went over the river?
    Ask anyone who knows a family with an abusive parent. Neighbours or other relatives have to come up with something to send the enquiring abuser off elsewhere while the family gets to a safer place. Same thing goes for a kid who's being picked on by the school or neighbourhood ruffians. If little sister answers the door or the phone and finds one of these people trying to find the victim, being able to lie about where he is and what he might be doing is a valuable safety skill. Girls and women do it all the time when men are driving or escorting them 'home'. I'd routinely tell a person I wasn't all that confident about to drop me at a house in the next street or round the corner from where I really lived. Lying with a straight face is a very valuable skill.

    As for the Christian thing, I have a mental picture - not sure whether it's from a book or a film/documentary - of soldiers / thugs going door to door to find people of the 'wrong' religion in order to torture or kill them.
    I get your examples, but still think they came a bit "out of left field". I'm sure you will write a great novel! There will be all kinds of interesting twists and surprises!
    Last edited by Gerdagewig; October 25th, 2012 at 04:20 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post

    This is a reason i disagree with psychologists. They want me to lie, they lie, they say it's okay. Lieing is not okay. If one has to lie to save one's own skin. It's about a murder/theft/rape or whatever. I know, privacy is still very important. But if nobody would lie, there would be no reason to lie. Lieing keeps itself alive. I'd say, shoot the darn thing.
    I seem to remember reading (maybe in a Scientific American "Intelligence" issue a number of years ago) that telling lies are seen as a natural and vital part of the development of a young intelligent human brain. The ability for an individual to come up with an untruth and to successfully place it in another's mind apparently is a great step in mental development.
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    Out of left field? Really?

    The lifetime risk for women in advanced industrial societies of physical assault by a partner is around 25%. There are children in many of those relationships and many of them are also assaulted. (Some women put themselves in harm's way so dad won't go for the children.) Family violence is not 'out of left field', it's extremely common. The risks for women in other societies, e.g. over dowries or failure to produce a son, is much higher.

    And the soldiers/mercenaries/gangs knocking on the door is hardly uncommon in violent or war-affected societies. Where is the wrong religion/race/ethnic/any targeted sub-group person? is a common question in such environments. Just ask a Hazara in Afghanistan or a Christian in some other South Asian communities.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Out of left field? Really?

    The lifetime risk for women in advanced industrial societies of physical assault by a partner is around 25%. There are children in many of those relationships and many of them are also assaulted. (Some women put themselves in harm's way so dad won't go for the children.) Family violence is not 'out of left field', it's extremely common. The risks for women in other societies, e.g. over dowries or failure to produce a son, is much higher.

    And the soldiers/mercenaries/gangs knocking on the door is hardly uncommon in violent or war-affected societies. Where is the wrong religion/race/ethnic/any targeted sub-group person? is a common question in such environments. Just ask a Hazara in Afghanistan or a Christian in some other South Asian communities.
    Adelady, I seem to have done a bad job of expressing myself. My post made no comment on the validity of your examples and was intended to be very friendly and even complimentary. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.

    I still maintain that the examples you used were surprising in it's detail and kinda funny in the way it brought to my mind similar scenes to the one's you imagined when saying you seem to remember them from a book or movie. Those scenes struck me as "funny" in the middle of the conversation we had. Again, not funny in a bad way! Actually, completely the opposite - funny in a good way!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerdagewig View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Why would somebody save themselves from harm by untruthfully saying that somebody else is not a Christian or that somebody else (who might be hiding in the closet for all I know) went over the river?
    Ask anyone who knows a family with an abusive parent. Neighbours or other relatives have to come up with something to send the enquiring abuser off elsewhere while the family gets to a safer place. Same thing goes for a kid who's being picked on by the school or neighbourhood ruffians. If little sister answers the door or the phone and finds one of these people trying to find the victim, being able to lie about where he is and what he might be doing is a valuable safety skill. Girls and women do it all the time when men are driving or escorting them 'home'. I'd routinely tell a person I wasn't all that confident about to drop me at a house in the next street or round the corner from where I really lived. Lying with a straight face is a very valuable skill.

    As for the Christian thing, I have a mental picture - not sure whether it's from a book or a film/documentary - of soldiers / thugs going door to door to find people of the 'wrong' religion in order to torture or kill them.
    I get your examples, but still think they came a bit "out of left field". I'm sure you will write a great novel! There will be all kinds of interesting twists and surprises!
    Check out the life story of Hypatia. It contains all the pathos for a great tragedy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Write4U View Post

    Check out the life story of Hypatia. It contains all the pathos for a great tragedy.
    So, would you agree that Adelady might be some sort of modern Hypathia (leading mind who is also a female who clashes with a male dominated society) and would be able to write a great non-scientific book?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Write4U

    Check out the life story of Hypatia. It contains all the pathos for a great tragedy.
    Wow, great example. Hypatia's murder was a classic scapegoat ritual. Her body was mutilated and burned.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiki Hypatia
    ...and dragging her from her carriage, they took her to the church called Caesareum, where they completely stripped her, and then murdered her with tiles. After tearing her body in pieces, they took her mangled limbs to a place called Cinaron, and there burnt them.
    ---Socrates Scholasticus
    These types of behavior (corpse mutilation and burning) occur in lynchings, along with other symbolic elements (hanging over water) that harken back to ritualized human sacrifice. Why do mobs behave this way? Strange Fruit.




    By the way, the quotation above by Socrates Scholasticus comes from the Historia Ecclesiastica, the official church position on the incidents surrounding the death of Hypatia. Though reasonably critical of some of the actions of the hardline Christians involved in her murder, the document is essentially an internal house cleaning and white wash. Nothing much to see here folks, move along.

    My Avatar, Giordano Bruno, was burned at the stake by the church.

    Both Hypatia and Giordano Bruno have largely been forgotten in our age. Both are considered to have been universal geniuses. Talk about tragedy. Do the good gals and guys always lose?


    ---Futilitist
    Last edited by Futilitist; October 26th, 2012 at 04:52 PM. Reason: TO ADD PATHOS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layman View Post
    This is purely speculation but still fun I think, in the debate (I use the term loosely) between religion and atheism a question comes up something like "What if there's a gene that promotes religion because of the psychological placebo affect of believing a divine being cares about you, and you'll live for all eternity in paradise, making it beneficial to initially believe?" For the sake of argument let's assume it's true.
    I think a neurophysiological approach to religion can be much more revealing than looking into individual genes. Temporal lobe epilepsy is particularly interesting because studys have shown (Spirituality and religion in epilepsy. [Epilepsy Behav. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI) that individuals with TLE show enhanced spiritual affinities. Dr vs ramachandran elaborates in his documentary "Phantoms in the Brain" that the degree of ones spirituality is perhaps directly related to how active their temporal lobes are. TLE patients report grandeur feelings and an overwhelming sense of being one with the universe. In yet another study (i forget the source) they attached electrodes onto a patients head in whats called a transcranial direct-current stimulation and put the patient into a near completely dark and soundless room. The researches found that when the TDCS was activated on their temporal lobes, they experienced mysterious feelings such as they were being watched, or as if someone else was in the room. They felt slightly overwhelmed, sometimes they even hallucinated or heard things. These basic qualities of temporal activation are likely the underpinnings of religion, perhaps giving people a need to explain these weird phenomenon.

    Temporal Lobe Epilepsy Video - YouTube (dr damachandrans documentary part where he talks about TLE)
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    These basic qualities of temporal activation are likely the underpinnings of religion, , perhaps giving people a need to explain these weird phenomenon.
    Good post, Synaptic. But I don't think think this is the most likely explanation for the evolutionary origin of religion. Check out the theory of the evolutionary origin of religion thread in New Hypotheses. I'd like to hear what you think.


    ---Futilitist
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    Strange Fruit.

    One of my weird moments happened while I was driving with the radio on. They did a piece on multigraft fruit trees (which I thought were well known, but apparently not). They played Strange Fruit as intro, ending and during switches between interviews. Talk about cultural ignorance and/or not bothering to listen to the thing or look up the words. I kept on wanting to stop the car and find a computer somewhere, anywhere to message them to stop it - all the while knowing it was futile, it was a replay of something from Europe.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Strange Fruit.

    One of my weird moments happened while I was driving with the radio on. They did a piece on multigraft fruit trees (which I thought were well known, but apparently not). They played Strange Fruit as intro, ending and during switches between interviews. Talk about cultural ignorance and/or not bothering to listen to the thing or look up the words. I kept on wanting to stop the car and find a computer somewhere, anywhere to message them to stop it - all the while knowing it was futile, it was a replay of something from Europe.
    People don't understand the relational context of anything anymore. I believe it is a sign of social decline. I think our culture rots like strange fruit.

    I also like the reference to futility


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    A sign of social decline? pfffft. Bone laziness in my book.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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