Notices
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 301 to 316 of 316
Like Tree33Likes

Thread: extended evolutionary synthesis

  1. #301  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Silence can be frustration when you realize you're a puppy barking at a wall.
    I'm a full grown Rottweiler, not some wimpy puppy! Lol!
    My friends reckon however my physical appearance is more similar to a silverback guerilla, but if I start admitting that it might hurt my confidence with the ladies, so I'll never go that far. In fact come to think of it, the ladies won't be any more attracted to a Rottweiler than a guerilla, so I just realised again why my romantic life is in the state it is!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #302  
    ***** Participant Write4U's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerdagewig View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Silence can be frustration when you realize you're a puppy barking at a wall.
    I'm a full grown Rottweiler, not some wimpy puppy! Lol!
    My friends reckon however my physical appearance is more similar to a silverback guerilla, but if I start admitting that it might hurt my confidence with the ladies, so I'll never go that far. In fact come to think of it, the ladies won't be any more attracted to a Rottweiler than a guerilla, so I just realised again why my romantic life is in the state it is!
    All you need do is act like a puppy and the ladies will come arunnin'.......
    Gerdagewig likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #303  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by Write4U View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerdagewig View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Silence can be frustration when you realize you're a puppy barking at a wall.
    I'm a full grown Rottweiler, not some wimpy puppy! Lol!
    My friends reckon however my physical appearance is more similar to a silverback guerilla, but if I start admitting that it might hurt my confidence with the ladies, so I'll never go that far. In fact come to think of it, the ladies won't be any more attracted to a Rottweiler than a guerilla, so I just realised again why my romantic life is in the state it is!

    All you need do is act like a puppy and the ladies will come arunnin'.......

    naaah, guys that lick their butts and chew on underwear aren't that appealing to most women.
    Gerdagewig likes this.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #304  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    122
    Epigenetics has recently emerged as a critical field for studying how non-gene factors can influence the traits and functions of an organism. And this paper published last month, is yet another paper calling for an extended synthesis:

    Epigenetic synthesis: a need for a new paradigm for evolution in a contaminated world - F1000 Prime Biology Reports - F1000
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #305  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    Quote Originally Posted by nsbm ranger View Post
    Epigenetics has recently emerged as a critical field for studying how non-gene factors can influence the traits and functions of an organism. And this paper published last month, is yet another paper calling for an extended synthesis:

    Epigenetic synthesis: a need for a new paradigm for evolution in a contaminated world - F1000 Prime Biology Reports - F1000
    Essentially, all he says is, "Epigenetics deserves more investigation to see if it has merit." Not the strongest support for something that shows no truly valid role in evolutionary changes, considering a very lengthy fossil record showing gradual change and extinctions due to environmental pressure rather than rapid adaptation and survival in spite of environmental pressure.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #306  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    122


    This is what evolution is looking like in the 21st century according to the extended synthesis theorists.
    Schematic representation of key concepts of Darwinism (center field), the Modern Synthesis (intermediate field), and the Extended Synthesis (outer field).

    From Pigliucci M, Muller GB (2010) Elements of an extended evolutionary synthesis. In: Evolution: The Extended Synthesis (Pigliucci M, Muller GB, eds), 3–17. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.


    Also regarding your claim "no truly valid role in evolutionary changes" via epigenetics, this is false. You have been given a scientific paper by Eva Jablonka listing much of this evidence but you have chosen to ignore it. I understand you work with lasers for a living you may be good at that, but you have little understanding in evolutionary biology and your view of evolution is out of date.

    I highly suggest reading here for some of the evidence:

    The Role of Epigenetics in Evolution: The Extended Synthesis


    Evolutionary biology is currently experiencing an emergence of several research topics that transcend the boundaries of the Modern Synthesis, which was the last major conceptual integration in evolutionary biology. The Modern Synthesis used the concepts of population genetics to integrate Mendelian genetics with evolution by natural selection. Pigliucci, and citations within] identified several major areas of innovation that transcend the Modern Synthesis: epigenetics, evolvability, phenotypic plasticity, evolution on adaptive landscapes, evolutionary developmental biology, and systems biology. Integrating these new ideas with the Modern Synthesis will form a new conceptual framework of evolution, which they termed the Extended Synthesis, as it will extend, rather than refute, the Modern Synthesis. This subject has been the focus of much recent work, and an excellent description is provided in the book Evolution‚€”The Extended Synthesis.
    The Role of Epigenetics in Evolution: The Extended Synthesis

    Their conclusion "While a great deal of work remains, epigenetics has already proven to be very promising in evolutionary biology. Empirical studies that demonstrate the role epigenetic variation has in ecology and evolution will help answer some of the major questions in evolutionary epigenetics, and these empirical studies will allow a development and refinement of a foundational theory of evolutionary epigenetics."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #307  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    Quote Originally Posted by nsbm ranger View Post
    I understand you work with lasers for a living you may be good at that, but you have little understanding in evolutionary biology and your view of evolution is out of date.
    I think I have a pretty strong understanding of Darwinism and the fossil record. But evolutionary biology? You're probably right; I'm not very knowledgeable.

    Thanks for the references and I'll look through them.

    When Sculptor raised the epigenetics point, I found these two- a blog and article- that were highly critical. It's worth reading.
    http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress....y-wrong-again/
    http://evolvify.com/darwin-epigenetics-false-dichotomy/

    On current hypothesis, I am out of date and have a lot to learn... However, we cannot call epigenetics etc theory at this time.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #308  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    122
    If you read this article here by Mae-Wan Ho, you will see how epigenetics challenges many aspects of neo-Darwinism:

    Evolution

    However, we cannot call epigenetics etc theory at this time.
    This paper here deals with some of that issue:

    http://www.oeb.harvard.edu/faculty/h...ticorigins.pdf
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #309  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    Quote Originally Posted by nsbm ranger View Post
    If you read this article here by Mae-Wan Ho, you will see how epigenetics challenges many aspects of neo-Darwinism:

    Evolution
    That's the biggest load of bunk I've ever read. Wasted my time. I was thinking there would actually be evidence in there somewhere...
    Quote Originally Posted by nsbm ranger View Post
    However, we cannot call epigenetics etc theory at this time.
    True.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #310  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    122
    Can you explain why it is bunk? Mae-Wan Ho since the 1980's has been talking about how epigenetics will contradict some of the tenets of the neo-Darwinian synthesis. Some of her predictions have come true (see the paper on the previous page written by Eva Jablonka et al. Also in 2007 I believe there is some evidence that genetic assimilation exists... this mechanism was denied by the neo-Darwinisms, but has been found to exist according to some recent evo-devo researchers.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #311  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    I live in Los Angeles but travel a lot and spend some time in Mexico.
    Posts
    1,509
    Quote Originally Posted by nsbm ranger View Post
    Can you explain why it is bunk? Mae-Wan Ho since the 1980's has been talking about how epigenetics will contradict some of the tenets of the neo-Darwinian synthesis. Some of her predictions have come true (see the paper on the previous page written by Eva Jablonka et al. Also in 2007 I believe there is some evidence that genetic assimilation exists... this mechanism was denied by the neo-Darwinisms, but has been found to exist according to some recent evo-devo researchers.
    Epigenetics has shown to be a real mechanism for change in the lab and in a few human case histories that I am aware of. How it functions in animals in general and the overall evolution picture is still mostly conjecture. It is thought that big changes can occur with epigenetic changes. However, there are no known animal changes such a speciation associated with epigenetics. Lamarckism may work through epigenetic mechanisms. We have a number of hypothesis how this might work, but as Neverfly pointed out, there is no hard evidence to what extent this might fit into the over-all evolution picture. Even the idea of Neo-Darwinism is just a "spin-word" that some biologists use to distinguish their work.

    In evolution theory to date, by far the biggest player is natural selection concerning the origin of the species, as Darwin originally theorized. The mechanics of this process can be better understood through genetics and DNA analysis, and epigenetics is a known player, but still speculative concerning what role it might have played in the overall evolution picture, past and present.

    Besides reshuffling of the gene pool, mutation is just one of the many other ways genetic changes can take place. Animals and plants can joint genetically with bacteria and viruses in gamete cells which can become part of the genetic make-up of an off-spring. Most of such changes are inconsequential, but sometimes they can cause genetic problems, also once in a while a genetic advantage from such a genetic infusion can take place. There are many speculative possible mechanism to evolution, but natural selection is the only mechanism with "a mountain of evidence" to support its primary role in evolution.
    Last edited by forrest noble; December 10th, 2012 at 12:35 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #312  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    Epigentics is based on the premise that a mutation will occur due to environmental pressure.
    When that appears to happen, they shout, "Success!" too quickly, too loudly.

    What's happened is that over many generations, certain genes mutated, randomly, but lay dormant. When environmental pressure increased, the offspring of the carriers of the gene can have that gene activated at development. No mutation occurs due to environmental pressure. Just activation of an ancient dormant gene.

    The Lamarckians tend to ignore the entire fossil record while leaping for joy over inconclusive or unconfirmed causation in lab results.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #313  
    ***** Participant Write4U's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,242
    scheherazade, December 10th, 2012, 06:18 PM
    Originally Posted by Write4U

    Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.........
    We already have been.
    We are 'embedded' in the very fabric of existence.
    A 'patch of intelligence" in the fabric of existence. But is it real or just imaginary? Does it make a difference?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #314  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    I live in Los Angeles but travel a lot and spend some time in Mexico.
    Posts
    1,509
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Epigentics is based on the premise that a mutation will occur due to environmental pressure.
    When that appears to happen, they shout, "Success!" too quickly, too loudly.
    There is no clear definition consensus as yet for epigentics, but the definition consensus seems to be leaning toward epigenetics as being the effect of different gene expressions such as gene turned on and gene turned off without DNA changes, being the simplest forms of different gene expressions. If it occurs based upon environmental pressures then it's related to Lemarckism by definition, if there is another cause for it such as a different gene folding resulting in a different gene expression, then it may simply have a more random basis. Most consider epigenetics and Lemarckism as generally unrelated.

    What's happened is that over many generations, certain genes mutated, randomly, but lay dormant. When environmental pressure increased, the offspring of the carriers of the gene can have that gene activated at development. No mutation occurs due to environmental pressure. Just activation of an ancient dormant gene.

    The Lamarckians tend to ignore the entire fossil record while leaping for joy over inconclusive or unconfirmed causation in lab results.
    Sounds reasonable
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #315  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Apocalyptic Paradise
    Posts
    6,613
    Quote Originally Posted by forrest noble View Post
    There is no clear definition consensus as yet for epigentics, but the definition consensus seems to be leaning toward epigenetics as being the effect of different gene expressions such as gene turned on and gene turned off, being the simplest expressions.
    Which is basic old Darwinism. The reason Darwinism holds is because it's held up against observation and evidence. It's not a grand conspiracy (Not saying you made this claim but many others have.)
    The mutation occurs just as any, the only difference being it's activation. This explains why it only rarely shows up in lab trials, as the gene must be present to be activated, (Lamarck proponents claim this "proves" the hypothesis, while neglecting the great many trials in which no gene changes due to environmental pressures were observed) and does not mutate due to the environment. This also explains the lack of mutations due to environmental pressures not only across a very expansive fossil record, but in observed living species.
    The only organisms to show recessive traits brought forward so far, have been a few strains of bacteria. Very simple organisms.
    There is a reason for this as well: Major genetic changes can only occur if they compliment existing genetic structure. For example, if a human has the gene (technically, it's on the books) to have eyeballs all over their body, the gene must conform to the rest of their genetic structure or the developing zygote will miscarry.
    With bacteria, the simpler the genetic structure, the easier for genetic change to conform.
    Quote Originally Posted by forrest noble View Post
    Sounds reasonable
    I think so too...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #316  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    122
    http://www.nicheconstruction.com/

    Interesting read, if anyone has some spare time!
    Reply With Quote  
     

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Similar Threads

  1. Chemistry Extended Essay IB help!
    By Spencerrr in forum Chemistry
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 16th, 2011, 02:34 PM
  2. Extended Essay
    By Madelena in forum Chemistry
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: June 26th, 2011, 04:00 AM
  3. Extended Essay help?
    By Kiriri in forum Chemistry
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: April 13th, 2011, 01:16 AM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: September 4th, 2009, 10:44 AM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •