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Thread: Punctuated and Gradual

  1. #1 Punctuated and Gradual 
    Forum Freshman Secret_Agent_Man's Avatar
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    I was just wondering why when your talking about the different views of evolution, Punctuated and Gradual evolution, that everyone seems to be for only one or the other. Why can't they both be going at the same time? I mean mabye some populations have much more severe selection pressures and that would require them to evolve faster since alot more would die out than in a place with easy selection pressures, and in the places with easy selection pressures wouldn't it seem gradual? Since not as many die out as quickly?


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  3. #2  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    it is as you say, if the enviorment demands fast evolution there will either be fast evolution or no living things at all


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  4. #3  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    For me the attraction of punctuated equilibrium (apart from the fact that it fits the evidence) is that it incorporates gradualism within it. The same is not true of gradualism.

    If we accept that punctuated equilibrium does occur the debate then boils down to the relative size and duration of the punctuation over the equilibrium.
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    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    For me the attraction of punctuated equilibrium (apart from the fact that it fits the evidence) is that it incorporates gradualism within it. The same is not true of gradualism.

    If we accept that punctuated equilibrium does occur the debate then boils down to the relative size and duration of the punctuation over the equilibrium.

    come again, in english please

    really.. i don't even begin to understand your answer..[/quote]
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  6. #5  
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    The way I understood what Ophiolite was trying to say was that punctuated equilibrium is cool because it both allows for the gaps where creatures are rapidly chaging, but also realizes that the given change between two generations is quite small even during times of massive change...

    Whereas gradualism doesn't fit the information because creatures exist unchanged for entire eons...

    I think.

    Maybe not, though.

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  7. #6  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
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    i don't even know what an equilibrium is. Nor what it meant in a sentence..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  8. #7  
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

    basically, the creatures speciate and then each species stays as its separate species for a long time until they suddenly speciate again...

    There are transitional species, but I don't believe that there are actual "half-this, half-that" type fossils, making this still work with the data.

    Of course, genetic mutation can only yank an organism's DNA so far each generation, so for longer-lived organisms this could still take quite a while (hundreds of thousands of years at the shortest), but still the "blink of an eye" in the scheme of things...

    ---

    gradualisms is that all creatures constantly speciate slowly...but like I said we don't find "half-this, half-that" fossils so much, so this is a little hard to support...

    -Ajain
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  9. #8  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    There is half-half types, but then the question ebtween half-half of that and the one before and after arise, its like dividing 1 with 2 several times, you never reach 0
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman Secret_Agent_Man's Avatar
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    Huh... Makes sence... I kinda liked punctuated more anyway it WOULD explain the fossil record. But I still don't see why gradual can't happen at the same time. Not everything in nature HAS to follow the same rules. You can't really make rules for nature its too diverse.
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  11. #10  
    Forum Sophomore CaveatLector's Avatar
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    But I still don't see why gradual can't happen at the same time.
    Indeed it can, Mr. Agent man.
    Evolution seems to require it.
    .
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    .
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  12. #11  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Which is exactly what I was saying. The fossil record clearly supports the existence of long periods of stasis (equilibrium) where changes to the phenotype are minor or non existent, interspersed with periods of very rapid change - the punctuations.
    For me those periods of stasis can also be periods of slow speciation in the more conventional manner - i.e. gradualism. Thus gradualism is a subset of punctuated equilibrium.

    Edited for typographical error.
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  13. #12  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
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    ok, now i understand.. and i agree
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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