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Thread: can a human being see with ears!

  1. #1 can a human being see with ears! 
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    at first it looks weird to ask such question, but as you go deeper you will realize it.

    I know a blind person who can tell me exactly what is going around him by listening to voices .

    My point is it is brain who sees not eyes, eyes only are facilitators.

    If we concentrate on this point than we can assume that all SENSES are replacable with one another. It will be a revolution.

    (Am I wrong?)


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  3. #2  
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    It depends on what you mean by "see". If you mean "detect light" then the answer is clearly no, but if you mean "deterimin the location of things in the local environment" then the answer is a qualifyed yes.


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    As Sealeaf has pointed out, it is obviously impossible to generate a visual image in the brain via processing sound,as you can observe for yourself if you close your eyes and attempt to generate a visual image by listening to a sound-emitting object. However, it is possible to have an awareness of the location of objects in one's immediate surroundings by processing sound. The brain is able to estimate the distance away from you that an object is, on the basis of the time taken for sound waves to travel from the object emitting the sound to your ear (with a slight lag for processing time). The speed of sound is constant at 343.2 m/s in dry air at 20*C. D = S x T

    This is true for situations in which both the observer and sound-emitting object are stationary. Conversely, a stationary observer listening to sound being emitted by a moving object will notice a change in the pitch, as a result of the change in frequency of the sound wave. This is known as the Doppler effect.

    All humans with hearing ability are able to estimate the location of objects in this way. It is possible that this ability is heightened in blind persons.

    Bats emit ultrasound signals and are able to determine the positions of surrounding objects via echolocation Animal echolocation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  5. #4  
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    I am on vast paradigm, you are only explaining one Dimension (and you seems to follow conventional science)

    can we hear with our eyes?
    can we see with our sense of touch?
    and can we smell with tongue?
    etc etc etc.

    I am talking of Sense replacibility. it means there is one super Sense inside our body, which controls all rest of these senses.
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    As Sealeaf has pointed out, it is obviously impossible to generate a visual image in the brain via processing sound,
    Some forms of people with synesthesia do that.
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  7. #6  
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    Blind people do understand the concept of space, distance, and pattern just like sighted people do, even when they never saw such concept before (eg: blind from birth). This is because: visual-cortex of the brain is still active & functional and almost similar to the sighted people in the blind people; partly because of genetics (which allow the brain to form a system which identify space, pattern, and distance), and partly because of plasticity (the brain continue to keep this area active by recruiting them to improve hearing). Blind people understand this concept... but obviously they just don't see it.

    Visual-cortex is still active in blind-from-birth people: People blind from birth use visual brain area to improve other senses: Can hear and feel with greater acuity
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    You might like the fact that some blind people can see with their eyes: Blindsight: Seeing without knowing it | Observations, Scientific American Blog Network
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    You might like the fact that some blind people can see with their eyes: Blindsight: Seeing without knowing it | Observations, Scientific American Blog Network
    Very very informative article. Thanks
    now reply to my post number 4
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    now reply to my post number 4
    It makes no sense. I have no idea what you are asking.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    now reply to my post number 4
    It makes no sense. I have no idea what you are asking.
    yeah, above your mind capacity. "Jack of everything is master of none "

    one thing if you dont know something clearly confess that "you dont know it" dont make thing complicated
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    now reply to my post number 4
    It makes no sense. I have no idea what you are asking.
    yeah, above your mind capacity. "Jack of everything is master of none "

    one thing if you dont know something clearly confess that "you dont know it" dont make thing complicated
    That is what I meant really; perhaps I should have said: "it makes no sense to me" (that is why I didn't attempt to answer it until you prompted me to).
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    now reply to my post number 4
    It makes no sense. I have no idea what you are asking.
    yeah, above your mind capacity. "Jack of everything is master of none "

    one thing if you dont know something clearly confess that "you dont know it" dont make thing complicated
    That is what I meant really; perhaps I should have said: "it makes no sense to me" (that is why I didn't attempt to answer it until you prompted me to).
    "I dont know" should be the answer. Not "it makes no sense to me" . It shows a bit arrogance.
    Sorry that I prompted for that answer, because I expected something from you, as you always give a valid link for my querries and talk to the point.
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  14. #13  
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    I didn't understand what you were asking in #4 so I don't know what the answer is.

    OK?
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  15. #14  
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    you are brave, you readily accepted your mistake.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    I am on vast paradigm, you are only explaining one Dimension (and you seems to follow conventional science)
    I will always stick with "conventional science" (if that means the sort that works).

    can we hear with our eyes?
    No. Unless you want to redefine "hear".

    can we see with our sense of touch?
    No. Unless you want to redefine "see". Brainport allows blind to see through their tongue

    and can we smell with tongue?
    No. Unless you want to redefine "smell".

    it means there is one super Sense inside our body, which controls all rest of these senses.
    I am not aware of any "super sense" like that.
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    To see is to detect light with your eyes. What you implied as "seeing" is only being aware of.

    In our language, we use the word "see" for awareness. A blind person does in that way "see" the objects, because he/she is aware of those objects. But isn't actually receiving information from that light.

    And since hearing isn't so ambiguous a term, it's much different to say a deaf person "hears" with his eyes. A deaf person cannot be aware of an object by detecting the vibrations of air particles around him/her.

    But I must admit the idea of super-sense and inter-sensory perception is very cool. Reminds me of synesthesia
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  18. #17  
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    I have a similar question, do you think I could be able to think using my knees?
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    flies taste with their feet
    obviously
    it is not advantageous
    for humans to attempt similar feats
    if you will pardon
    a small pun
    from a small bug
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Whitehouse View Post
    I have a similar question, do you think I could be able to think using my knees?
    do you suppose knee caps as new Brains, or simply as new centers of perception? But the physiological/anatomical purpose of knees is not to behave in such way. It will seem unlikely. But I will recommend you to go and ask any neuroscientist.

    I will try to answer your querry if you provide me some material for thought. I cant deny anything as unacceptabel in Science.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by brody View Post
    To see is to detect light with your eyes. What you implied as "seeing" is only being aware of.

    In our language, we use the word "see" for awareness. A blind person does in that way "see" the objects, because he/she is aware of those objects. But isn't actually receiving information from that light.

    And since hearing isn't so ambiguous a term, it's much different to say a deaf person "hears" with his eyes. A deaf person cannot be aware of an object by detecting the vibrations of air particles around him/her.

    But I must admit the idea of super-sense and inter-sensory perception is very cool. Reminds me of synesthesia
    It seems realy a valid concept, associated with my Idea here. Lynx_Fox has already mentioned it here.
    Thanx Both of you
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  22. #21  
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    Yes, people can use echolocation to "see" objects and movements and even shapes:

    msafwan likes this.
    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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  23. #22  
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    Russian experiments showed a person can read print if a sheet of paper is placed on the cheek.
    Search engines are such useful tools .. I wonder why more people don't use them?
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    The hair is there for a reason. If they didnt have human ears, it would look weird, but if they did, it would make the cat ears look either fake or weird for being secondary ears. The hair is there to keep the mystery, and to not set anything in stone.
    Last edited by marnixR; January 2nd, 2012 at 02:53 PM. Reason: deleted spam link
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    yes that is true... if we lose one sense ... the others will try to adapt and will become stronger than before
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarchus in Exile View Post
    Russian experiments showed a person can read print if a sheet of paper is placed on the cheek.
    This makes no sense. Do you have a link to your reference on this?
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    For anyone with a serious interest in this topic, I strongly recommend Norman Doidge's book, "The Brain That Changes Itself". In fact, I'd recommend it to anyone with even a casual interest in amazing science. Neuroplasticity is absolutely stunning stuff.

    Norman Doidge, MD | The Brain That Changes Itself official website

    Unfortunately my own copy is still in storage so I can't give you an accurate summary of the things that struck me (and my husband) most forcibly when we read it first. But there is some near-magical material on 'visual' perception.

    For the students among you, I'm afraid Doidge has some ideas about education and developing brain based skills that you might not like a lot. A lot of teachers and education theorists don't like it either. (Repetition, repetition, repetition ....... not glamorous or exciting, but effective.)
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarchus in Exile View Post
    Russian experiments showed a person can read print if a sheet of paper is placed on the cheek.
    This makes no sense. Do you have a link to your reference on this?
    I'm googling:

    Seeing with Your Skin

    This is all I can find right now .. the news article appeared several years ago. The person could read words and sentences. I'm not surprised it's source is obscure .. when the Russians do anything first the west 'discovers' it 20 years later. One example of this is immersing people in ice water during surgery. A cosmological example is the Russian theoretical discoveries of Black Holes 20 years before the U.S. began to consider the possibility.

    http://www.scientificremoteviewing.c...-skin-readers/
    Last edited by Aristarchus in Exile; January 3rd, 2012 at 12:57 PM.
    Search engines are such useful tools .. I wonder why more people don't use them?
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  29. #28  
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    Well, he's actually with the University of Tel-Aviv, and it was only one researcher proposing the concept, not the entirety of Russian scientists. The lack of any further articles on it would seem to indicate that the idea did not live up to the hype.
    Last edited by Paleoichneum; January 4th, 2012 at 11:34 AM.
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    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  30. #29  
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    Seeing is something completely different that perceiving. Actually the basic concept you presented was wrong. Brain doesn't see. It perceives. It is the eye, which sees. And to make it clear, seeing is a tool for perceiving as is touch or hearing.
    One additional thing I would like to write about is that there are different regions of brains specified for different types of senses. Eyes have their own specific areas and Ears have their own. During our lifetime, we learn to relate different sensations with one another. For example, when you hear you father's voice, your brain quickly realizes it and then you can think about his face and his skin color and his height etc. All of these have nothing to do with the sensation of hearing but because we have learned to associate them together, we can do this.
    The case would be entirely different for people who are blind by birth. They cannot imagine the images of people who's voice they recognize, because they have never seen them and there is not data available to brain on which to act.
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  31. #30  
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    'The man who hears colour'

    BBC News - The man who hears colour
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    The reporter fails to mention whether or not the man in question experiences synaptic stimulation in the same parts of the brain as would a non-colour blind person whom is observing colour naturally. I.e. whether the man experiences colour in the same way as you (assuming that you are not colourblind) and I. I wouldn't think so, given that the original stimulus is different. This seems more like an indirect or different way of experiencing colour and probably would require a re-definition of 'sight' in order to proclaim that the man is actually seeing colour with his ears.
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    My point is it is brain who sees not eyes, eyes only are facilitators.

    If we concentrate on this point than we can assume that all SENSES are replacable with one another. It will be a revolution.

    (Am I wrong?)
    Yes, you are wrong. Here's why: We have a variety of sensors, and we have the brain. The brain interprets the data provided by the sensors.

    Each sensor detects different phenomena (light vs sound, eg). Not only that, but the bandwidths are very different. The information bandwidth that the eyes can accommodate is many orders of magnitude greater than provided by the ears, for example. So one cannot simply replace the other.

    You are confusing qualitative notions with quantitative ones. Even if the brain interprets acoustic inputs as visual ones, the bandwidth difference guarantees that they will never be equivalent (which is a criterion for "replacement" in my working definition).
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    Some blind people use echolocation to detect objects at distance. This method constist in producing a sound and feeling what head in front with the echo of that sounds.
    I have been training to use it for around two years, this gets me a feel of the difference betweeing seeing and echolocation.

    A big difference between the two systems is that vision give a perception of at a large angle, echolocation give a perception of what lies ahead and some of its qualities (size, hardness, mobility, ...). It is better suited for the location of obstacles that to build a mental map of the environment.

    The best way to feel what I mean, would be to be in a black room, with no light at all, and have on your head an electic lamp that would let you see what is 5-10 meters in front of you.
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by david1970 View Post
    I have been training to use it for around two years, this gets me a feel of the difference betweeing seeing and echolocation.
    Now pick up the coffee mug from the table, or close the door, and then find the next door...

    I am pretty sure you can train yourself to find a solid steel wall, but it's doubtfull you will be able to find a telephone booth, unlikely you will be able to find your bike, and impossible to find a leaf on the ground, using echolocation.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  36. #35  
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    this reminds me of an episode of a series that's been one of my favorites my whole life, the magic school bus! the bat episode!
    Walking every street of Toronto to raise awareness of global warming http://www.whatscoolerthancool.org/
    Petitioning world leaders and governments to take more effective action on climate change http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/...l-warming.html
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