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Thread: Age should be counted when a person is conceived in uterus!

  1. #1 Age should be counted when a person is conceived in uterus! 
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
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    people count the age of a person when he/she is born, why this injustice/malpractice. i say it should be counted when a baby is conceived in womb of a woman. why science is silent on this.


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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    nothing to do with science, all to do with being able to pinpoint exactly to the date and time that someone is born
    far harder to try and determine the exact date and time of conception


    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  4. #3  
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    Who cares anyway?
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    Forum Freshman Jamie Whitehouse's Avatar
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    Can a label of age be put onto something that isn't even fully formed?
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    Forum Freshman Light Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    people count the age of a person when he/she is born, why this injustice/malpractice. i say it should be counted when a baby is conceived in womb of a woman. why science is silent on this.
    For starters, at conception until birth, it's not a baby, "It's" a fetus

    Taking your recommended step would be like saying every egg that isn't fertilized is murder.

    ...

    Birth... is a defining point in a human life.

    What happens when a fetus dies in the first 3 months naturally... happens a lot! Should the mother be held responsible for not taking better care of herself to protect the unborn baby?
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    In China, isn't the age of a baby counted as 1 (it is in its first year, rather than being one year old)? So, traditionally, in China you would be a year older than in the West.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    In China, isn't the age of a baby counted as 1 (it is in its first year, rather than being one year old)? So, traditionally, in China you would be a year older than in the West.
    a new point. is it related to my point?
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    a new point. is it related to my point?
    In as much as it is about how age is counted from birth. And quite interesting, I thought. (Given that yours was not a scientific question, just a cultural one.)
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Storm View Post
    Birth... is a defining point in a human life.
    Good point. Let's start counting age from the time the human tells its first lie. Lying defines humans, so it should also define the start of an individual's humanity.
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    It's just a convention. The old testament didn't count people until they were a year old, probably adopted to account for high child mortality rates. Measuring the date of conception isn't precise (I can narrow down my son's conception to a particular weekend on 3 day camping trip after returning from 10 weeks of abstinence) and something like 2/3rd or higher die anyhow. Date of birth is pretty easy to figure out.

    Also of technical note, it's not a fetus until it's about 8 weeks old in the womb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Who cares anyway?
    I care. I might be able to retire 9 months early.
    Eat Dolphin, save the Tuna!!!!
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    and you would have been able to go to the pub 9 months earlier
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    Age should be counted when a person is conceived in uterus!
    Ok I'll humor you: Why? Why should the age be counted when a cell is fertilized? (Birthday as in "Birth" day, and its easier to narrow down the exact "day" of birth but the exact day of conception can be approximate)
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    people count the age of a person when he/she is born, why this injustice/malpractice. i say it should be counted when a baby is conceived in womb of a woman. why science is silent on this.
    You want to count the age of a person when he/she is concieved, why this injustice/malpractice. I say it should be counted when half of the baby already exists as an egg cell in the woman. Why are you silent on this.

    I want to count the age of a person when he/she is an egg cell, why this injustice/malpractice. Someone might say it should be counted when the cells that produce gametes are differentiated as gonads in the mother. Why am I silent on this.

    Someone wants to count the age of a person when his/her mother forms gonads, why this injustice/malpractice. ....sigh, this is getting tiring.



    Look, do you have a REASON for your opinion? Is there a logical reason to begin the arbitrary designations for the passage of time at some point other than birth that is productive to us?
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    Forum Freshman Light Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericv00 View Post
    Look, do you have a REASON for your opinion? Is there a logical reason to begin the arbitrary designations for the passage of time at some point other than birth that is productive to us?
    Pro-Life wing has been pushing this argument lately to help politically re-enforce their stance on the abortion issue.
    "The greatest discoveries of science have always been those that forced us to rethink our beliefs about the universe and our place in it."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Storm View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ericv00 View Post
    Look, do you have a REASON for your opinion? Is there a logical reason to begin the arbitrary designations for the passage of time at some point other than birth that is productive to us?
    Pro-Life wing has been pushing this argument lately to help politically re-enforce their stance on the abortion issue.
    I understand where this comes from. It, however, is not an argument for anything unless they have a productive reason for this arbitrary designation. It is an opinion. Everyone has personal, lame-ass opinions about stuff. No one cares unless there is something productive to make of it.

    So do these pro-lifers have anything other than a lame-ass opinion?
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Oh the horror! .. The birth day is the death day for millions of sperm, a universal tragedy that does not draw the attention it deserves.
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericv00 View Post
    [So do these pro-lifers have anything other than a lame-ass opinion?
    You miss the point. Calling it a lame-ass opinion is, itself, probably in the category of lame-ass opinion. More to the point it is an elegant piece of rhetoric that can sway the views of the majority of the population who are unskilled in the mechanics of debate. Dismiss it as a lame-ass opinion and you hand control to them.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Storm View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ericv00 View Post
    Look, do you have a REASON for your opinion? Is there a logical reason to begin the arbitrary designations for the passage of time at some point other than birth that is productive to us?
    Pro-Life wing has been pushing this argument lately to help politically re-enforce their stance on the abortion issue.
    you have really given new meaning to this discussion. really insightfull.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ericv00 View Post
    [So do these pro-lifers have anything other than a lame-ass opinion?
    You miss the point.
    I don't think i do.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Calling it a lame-ass opinion is, itself, probably in the category of lame-ass opinion.
    Absolutely correct. Now, does anyone really care about MY lame-ass opinion? Not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    More to the point it is an elegant piece of rhetoric that can sway the views of the majority of the population who are unskilled in the mechanics of debate. Dismiss it as a lame-ass opinion and you hand control to them.
    I think it gives them more when you entertain the rhetoric as a legitimate discussion. I do not feel inclined to give a thought out, diplomatic response to a thoughtless and pointless opinion. It lets people think there is a legitimate debate when there isn't. I'd rather point out that it is a thoughtless and pointless opinion. If someone tries to justify such an opinion, THEN I bother to tear them down or learn something from it.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Oh the horror! .. The birth day is the death day for millions of sperm, a universal tragedy that does not draw the attention it deserves.
    Who mourns the sperm? Generally, at birth there are more witnesses than at moment of conception. This may change if fashions in online pornography do, so, only time, and millions of anonymous perverts, will tell...

    "Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for the sperm."- Whatsisname, the anonymous pervert
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Oh the horror! .. The birth day is the death day for millions of sperm, a universal tragedy that does not draw the attention it deserves.
    !!!!! really good pont.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Oh the horror! .. The birth day is the death day for millions of sperm, a universal tragedy that does not draw the attention it deserves.
    !!!!! really good pont.
    Not really actually, and not even corret
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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  25. #24  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Oh the horror! .. The birth day is the death day for millions of sperm, a universal tragedy that does not draw the attention it deserves.
    !!!!! really good pont.
    Not really actually, and not even corret
    I'm not going to argue the actual length of time that some sperm live, the same as I wouldn't argue about the exact time of conception. Fact is millions do die. There's no swimming back.

    How is the death of millions not a tragedy? Is it really necessary for so many to die? You only need one sperm and one egg. The carnage in the womb is nothing compared to the suffering sperm experience during other ah....er....um....adventures. I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Oh the horror! .. The birth day is the death day for millions of sperm, a universal tragedy that does not draw the attention it deserves.
    !!!!! really good pont.
    Not really actually, and not even corret
    I'm not going to argue the actual length of time that some sperm live, the same as I wouldn't argue about the exact time of conception. Fact is millions do die. There's no swimming back.

    How is the death of millions not a tragedy? Is it really necessary for so many to die? You only need one sperm and one egg. The carnage in the womb is nothing compared to the suffering sperm experience during other ah....er....um....adventures. I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
    We have long, continuous seas of death adorning our bodies. Now THAT is truly disturbing.
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  27. #26  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Oh the horror! .. The birth day is the death day for millions of sperm, a universal tragedy that does not draw the attention it deserves.
    !!!!! really good pont.
    Not really actually, and not even corret
    I'm not going to argue the actual length of time that some sperm live, the same as I wouldn't argue about the exact time of conception. Fact is millions do die. There's no swimming back.

    How is the death of millions not a tragedy? Is it really necessary for so many to die? You only need one sperm and one egg. The carnage in the womb is nothing compared to the suffering sperm experience during other ah....er....um....adventures. I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
    They are one use cells with a fairly short shelf life. if they are not used in some manner the old batches are dumped to make room for the new batch. It is in no way some major atrocity.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericv00 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    people count the age of a person when he/she is born, why this injustice/malpractice. i say it should be counted when a baby is conceived in womb of a woman. why science is silent on this.
    You want to count the age of a person when he/she is concieved, why this injustice/malpractice. I say it should be counted when half of the baby already exists as an egg cell in the woman. Why are you silent on this.

    I want to count the age of a person when he/she is an egg cell, why this injustice/malpractice. Someone might say it should be counted when the cells that produce gametes are differentiated as gonads in the mother. Why am I silent on this.

    Someone wants to count the age of a person when his/her mother forms gonads, why this injustice/malpractice. ....sigh, this is getting tiring.



    Look, do you have a REASON for your opinion? Is there a logical reason to begin the arbitrary designations for the passage of time at some point other than birth that is productive to us?
    Equal time for the tragedy of menstruation! True, not as many gametes dying, but more suffering for the women, and let us not forget MEN, who must endure it. By contrast, when sperm are expended, most men suffer not at all, heartless bastards! This constitutes injustice/malpractice on the part of the guardians of the Sacred Sperm!

    Would it be more tactful to remain silent on this?
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
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  29. #28  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Finger Prince View Post
    Would it be more tactful to remain silent on this?
    snicker As much as I admire Paleo's opinions, it's tough to let go, if you know what I mean.

    One more time.....Doesn't it break your heart to think of those poor little semen stained wrigglers having their existence snuffed out in a sack of rubber or in some cases, the human digestive tract? Jeezuz, not to mention Spermicide. What about the Pill contraceptive for women? It's effects are well documented.

    Here's a thought for the Pro-Lifers...... when you kill a gamete are you in fact killing half a human? And is that OK? If I use a rubber and my partner takes the Pill are we in effect killing a whole human being? (philosophy maybe?)

    Perhaps a thread move is in the offing. Not sure if Biology can handle this.
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  30. #29  
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    Some philosophers have maintained that all sex which does not result in procreation is wrong. Tolstoy thought that chastity was the ideal state of man. He was married but not happily.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    people count the age of a person when he/she is born, why this injustice/malpractice. i say it should be counted when a baby is conceived in womb of a woman. why science is silent on this.
    Oh my sweet precious, what really matters is life and how it is lived, the moment of birth
    is not an issue. Try as I can precious, cannot understand your problem with the age of
    a babe, hey am almost 79 now, when I was conceived or born, is so unimportant to me
    nokton
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