Notices
Results 1 to 40 of 40

Thread: darwin theory

  1. #1 darwin theory 
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    if we follow this theory of evolution, then what is the next stage after evolution of human?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,602
    How humans will evolve in future depends on the environment. There is no predetermined "next stage".


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    4,627
    I agree with Strange, there isn't a group of steps or stages in evolution, its based on natural/unnatural forcing from the environment and many other factors.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    what are the most probable features of this new evolved species, or whatever you call it. will it be superior to mankink in terms of intelligence. (my basic raw assumption is this that this theory of Darwin is true)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,849
    Quote Originally Posted by precious
    what are the most probable features of this new evolved species, or whatever you call it
    We already see the new species evolving after humans, the next stage in evolution: diseases, tapeworms and other parasites, weeds in agricultural plantings, and commensals like dogs and cats.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    4,627
    Huh? Im not sure what you are referring to Ice. I think Precious is wanting hypothetical features that may emerge in Homo sapiens
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    i can imagine that...... it will have bigger brain either physically or usage of it.
    it will be able to live in hote environment (as sun is coming closer and closer day by day, expanding)
    it can be mutation
    there is no possibility that it will come from other planet, as it is not evolution
    and it certainly is not THE THING (see moviev, older not 2011)
    and if all this happens is there a limit to evolution?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    4,627
    The brain may get larger in overall volume, but contrary to the "10% used only" urban legend, we already use all of it.

    The rate at which the sun is getting larger is very very small, eg its another couple billion years away from swallowing the planet, so adaption to heat in the manner you suggest is highly unlikely.

    Mutation is how almost all changes and adaptions originate.

    The limit to evolution is extinction.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    yeah i expected sun to expand earlier... how can i ? thanx for correction... it will take other 5 billion years more
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    if you can see future give me time period for this evolution. can you? just guess
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,602
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    i can imagine that...... it will have bigger brain either physically or usage of it.
    If it provides a survival advantage. If a smaller brain conferred an advantage, then brains would get smaller.

    it will be able to live in hote environment (as sun is coming closer and closer day by day, expanding)
    Perhaps. If global warming gets really extreme. Either that or we will just move to cooler locations.

    it can be mutation
    Which is inherently unpredictable.

    and if all this happens is there a limit to evolution?
    Physics and biochemistry, ultimately.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    985
    The next stage of human evolution will most likely be the addition of immunity to the HIV virus. It will happen as AIDS related illnesses kill off those who do not have natural immunity. There are already certain groups of people eho have much higher resistence than average. I predict that unless there is a dramatic leap in medical science, this immunity will be just part of being human within 200 years.

    Another likely change in the nature of what "human" means will be the vanishing of "race".

    Yet another likely change would be changes that improve social cooperation.

    But maybe we have come pretty much as far as we need to with biological changes. The real action is in the development of super human corporate entities. Humans are starting to "grow" a electrical interface the premits connection with thousands of their peers. Why I seem to be engaged in doing that right now.
    Last edited by Sealeaf; November 4th, 2011 at 06:24 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    if we follow this theory of evolution, then what is the next stage after evolution of human?
    evolution is a continuing process. Hence there is no 'after'.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

    - Arnaud Amalric

    http://spuriousforums.com/index.php
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    All of which is true, but probably not relevent.

    As I have said before, humans will take charge of their own evolution through advanced knowledge and application of genetics. Future humans will be what future human parents want them to be.

    Obviously we will begin with genetic changes that will eliminate genetic disease. However, after that, I can imagine parents will want their children to be good looking, athletic, intelligent, healthy, long lived and so on.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    great bunch of replies......

    @ strange::: Physics and biochemistry, ultimately

    what do you mean by this,,, how they are end of evolution?

    @ sealeaf::: immunity to the HIV virus

    an intelligent reply, but immunity is just on part,,,, evolution contains a lot... and the topic is what is next stage after evolution of man? how AIDS can concisely contribute to this stage? please elaborate further.

    @ skeptic:: nice try,, but man cant control their evolution. as they are subject to trillions of factors on the earth. these factors will determine his fate, like heat levels, food shortage etc
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,602
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    great bunch of replies......

    @ strange::: Physics and biochemistry, ultimately

    what do you mean by this,,, how they are end of evolution?
    Sorry, I meant that these are the ultimate limits to evolution. For example, there are various organisms (extremophiles) that have adapted to live at very high or low temperatures or acidities. But there is a limit to how far this can go.

    how AIDS can concisely contribute to this stage?
    The idea is that if AIDS kills enough people before they reproduce then only those who have some immunity will survive, hence we would evolve towards greater immunity. I am not sure about this because I don't think it is having a big enough effect.

    However, it is thought that some people who are immune to AIDS are descendents of those who survived the Balck Death; evolution in action.

    but man cant control their evolution. as they are subject to trillions of factors on the earth. these factors will determine his fate, like heat levels, food shortage etc
    We will be able to have some effect on it (e.g. preventing AIDS from killing people and so stopping us evolving immunity!) but not control it completely.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Freshman Jamie Whitehouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    16
    Many respectable anthropologists actually think that Human Evolution has come to it's end. The speed of evolution can be fueled by isolated and smaller populations, and because the human species is hurtling towards becoming a huge single population of interbreeding organisms, the capabilities for us to evolve is becoming less. As human sub-populations such as difference races and countries crossbreed (Amen to multiculturalism), the chances of mutations to become established in a gene pool fixates to nearly 0.

    Or you know, we could grow wings and shit.

    Jamie
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    you are suggesting that there will be no more evolution in our species, but my basic assumption is that it will be. and what will be next stage after man? please tell us what you want to see improved in mankind?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Professor Zwirko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    55° N, 3° W
    Posts
    1,086
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Whitehouse View Post
    Many respectable anthropologists actually think that Human Evolution has come to it's end.
    Many of these people have apparently forgotten that there is much more to evolution than natural selection. As long as we keep reproducing by the means we have been for all these years then allele frequencies will continue to change (i.e. evolution). Granted though, we have reduced our exposure to the cold hand of natural selection somewhat.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,151
    From one perspective,
    "human" just like "lion" or "cat" is a convenient but arbitrary human-invented label that is helpful but its still only a label just like "violet" and "purple".
    So from such a perspective, there is not a next stage of human evolution unless enough people arbitrarily agree that its so. All humans now on earth are mutants with a multitude of genetic variations most of which cannot be seen or have no noticeable effect in our environment. Some people have different blood types, some people have different immune cell structures that could allow one group to be vulnerable to some disease or immune to another.

    As for the next stage, Im voting for the genosapiens label for people with genetically engineered genes, and cybersapiens for people who have more than eye-glasses

    while I m on a lighter side, imagine if a mutagenic viral weapon infected people with pig dna, and trasformed victims into porcine quadrupeds. Horrible. Would we consider them to still be humans with human rights, or would we say oh well, lets have some more bacon?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    what is the "ideality" , if we follow the evolution of human race?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,602
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    what is the "ideality" , if we follow the evolution of human race?
    There is no ideal; it depends on the environment.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,324
    Aren't we already going through very rapid evolutionary change?
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Aren't we already going through very rapid evolutionary change?
    do you mean, loss of height/weight through time, and becoming weaker and weaker?

    MY ideality is practicall and different eg
    Strong heart (more pumping power)
    Powerful Brain (more processing power)
    skin (some new wonderful mutations)
    liver (ability to detoxify every poison)
    kidneys (better urine filtration) etc

    evolution should be ideal w r t
    physiology
    psychology
    cytology
    neurology
    biochemistry etc

    an evoloved person (!!!) should be better educationally, mentally, physically, etc
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Forum Freshman Jamie Whitehouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Aren't we already going through very rapid evolutionary change?
    do you mean, loss of height/weight through time, and becoming weaker and weaker?

    MY ideality is practicall and different eg
    Strong heart (more pumping power)
    Powerful Brain (more processing power)
    skin (some new wonderful mutations)
    liver (ability to detoxify every poison)
    kidneys (better urine filtration) etc

    evolution should be ideal w r t
    physiology
    psychology
    cytology
    neurology
    biochemistry etc

    an evoloved person (!!!) should be better educationally, mentally, physically, etc
    Sounding a bit like eugenics to me, rather than an adaption to the natural world. Remember that evolution also includes the loss the abilities, not just additions to an inevitable super-being.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,602
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    evolution should be ideal w r t ....
    ... the environment and selection pressures
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,324
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Aren't we already going through very rapid evolutionary change?
    do you mean, loss of height/weight through time, and becoming weaker and weaker?
    No I mean the many popular and scientific journals suggesting we're evolving very quickly:

    "In fact, people today are genetically more different from people living 5,000 years ago than those humans were different from the Neanderthals who vanished 30,000 years ago, according to anthropologist John Hawks of the University of Wisconsin."

    Rapid acceleration in human evolution described | Reuters
    Rapid acceleration in human evolution described | Reuters

    "We consider human demographic growth to be linked with past changes in human cultures and ecologies. Both processes have contributed to the extraordinarily rapid recent genetic evolution of our species. "
    Recent acceleration of human adaptive evolution
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Aren't we already going through very rapid evolutionary change?
    do you mean, loss of height/weight through time, and becoming weaker and weaker?
    No I mean the many popular and scientific journals suggesting we're evolving very quickly:

    "In fact, people today are genetically more different from people living 5,000 years ago than those humans were different from the Neanderthals who vanished 30,000 years ago, according to anthropologist John Hawks of the University of Wisconsin."

    Rapid acceleration in human evolution described | Reuters
    Rapid acceleration in human evolution described | Reuters

    "We consider human demographic growth to be linked with past changes in human cultures and ecologies. Both processes have contributed to the extraordinarily rapid recent genetic evolution of our species. "
    Recent acceleration of human adaptive evolution
    nice material. a food for thought. let me think i am going to put some new querries here
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Whitehouse View Post
    Many respectable anthropologists actually think that Human Evolution has come to it's end.
    Then my vote is with the disreputable antrhopologists. We have massively changed our environment, especially in the first world. Massive changes of environment change the traits that are favoured and those that are not favoured. Extensive evolution is a natural and unavoidable consequence of that.

    Edit: Coud you provide a citation for three of these respectable anthropologists making this statement, please.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30  
    Forum Professor Zwirko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    55° N, 3° W
    Posts
    1,086
    John Galt,

    although not an anthropologist, Steve Jones (a geneticist) is perhaps the most well known person making the claim that humans have ceased to evolve. For background you can watch this 75 minute video in YouTube: Steve Jones Enlightenment Lecture - Is Human Evolution Over?.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31  
    Forum Freshman Jamie Whitehouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    16
    John,

    Paleoanthropologist Ian Tattersall (and a curator in the American Museum of Natural History) has also been noted to be a firm believer that human evolution has come to an end in our current conditions - a quick Google search would show you this.

    However, I made my earlier post to throw this untouched argument into the debate, not as a belief of my own. I personally tend to agree with the majority, which is that humans are still actually evolving.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #32  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,324
    I watched much of that film. While he makes some strong arguments,

    It's got some other really interesting information. The chart which shows that a child's IQ decreases with the age of the father when the child was born, but the trend reversed for mothers. The chart which shows the average age of having a child decreases in modern society.

    Other the other there are no doubt still some powerful selective processes with potential to change our species. Size of a babies head for example.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #33  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    5,760
    i once went to see Steve Jones on the Hay-on-Wye book festival, where he gave a talk on just this topic

    whilst some of his arguments could be interpreted as indicating that evolution is slowing down, surely he must be aware as a geneticist that there are significant exceptions to his argument, which at least weaken its force and maybe even invalidate it

    my impression was that he made this statement somewhat tongue-in-cheek, maybe in an attempt to sound controversial
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #34  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Thanks to Jamie and Zwirko for providing examples of established individuals who believe human evolution is at an end. I'm familiar with Tattersall, but had not noted his views on current human evolution, or as he sees it, the lack of the same. I'm still not convinced that the two examples given, and others that might well be added, together constitute "many respectable anthropologists". Also, without reading their thoughts in depth I cannot be sure what they mean by "human evolution has come to an end". For example, note marnix's impression that Jones's views may have been offered 'tongue in cheek'.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #35  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    985
    Evolution is driven by death. Some event comes along that kills 90% of a population. The survivors have some genetic characteristis that helped them survive. They pass these on to their decendents. If the environment is stable, relative to the population in question, then there is little to drive evolution. Hostile environments drive rapid evolution. As long as humans can manipulate the environment to stay commfortable we will not change, but if modern civilization collapses then we will see change, but we will be too busy just surviving to notice.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #36  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Sealeaf View Post
    Evolution is driven by death.
    Or, more accurately, a failure to reproduce.

    Some event comes along that kills 90% of a population.
    Although that can drive dramatic changes, even small differences in survival/reproductive success will cause change in the population over generations.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #37  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Sealeaf View Post
    As long as humans can manipulate the environment to stay commfortable we will not change,
    This is a misunderstanding of what evolution is. By manipulating the environment we have changed the environement and therefore changed which genotypes are favoured or disadvantaged by the environment. Through application of modern medicine, individuals who have genetic characterisics that would have likely led to an early death are now able to reproduce thus sustaining those genetic chracteristics in the population. The proportion of these previously disadvantageous alleles increases. Any change in allele proportion is by definition evolution, ergo the more amenable we make our environment the more we foster evolution.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #38  
    Forum Professor Zwirko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    55° N, 3° W
    Posts
    1,086
    Sealeaf,

    Every time humans mate evolution happens. Processes such as mutation, recombination, gene flow and drift are always being played out within the dynamics of a population. Despite their best efforts to maintain integrity, our genomes never remain static and so evolution is always happening. In short, evolution doesn't equal selection - which is why the "evolution has stopped" argument gets criticised.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #39  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    985
    Strange, John Galt, and Zwirko: You are all quite correct. Random mutation occures constantly, modern medicine is changing the conditions of natural selection that influence us, and gradual genetic change is still evolution. However, the point of the thread was what will come after us? My point is that for a radicle change to happen to the human race, a radicle change in the environment with a catastrophic kill rate would be needed. That or the discovery of a new environment highly condusive to human life but requiring a high tolerance to X environmental varient.
    I think the most likely change will be increase incidence of HIV resistent genotype in the general population. That change would not be the type of thing the original poster was looking for. Not dramatic enough.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #40  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,324
    individuals who have genetic characterisics that would have likely led to an early death are now able to reproduce thus sustaining those genetic chracteristics in the population.
    In a similar manner, many other genetic characteristics which would have likely led to an early death or miserable life are being identified and aborted, the latter of which are being reduced.

    Sealeaf we don't need a catastrophe to promote rapid evolution, just rapid environmental change. Arguably modern humans have changed their environment more in the past few decades than the hundreds before it.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; November 21st, 2011 at 10:06 AM.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Darwin and Albinism
    By OwlEyes in forum Biology
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: October 3rd, 2011, 04:11 PM
  2. Darwin and evolution
    By Ted in forum Biology
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: March 27th, 2010, 07:32 AM
  3. Darwin and Lamarckism
    By Cran in forum Biology
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: March 23rd, 2010, 03:33 AM
  4. darwin chip
    By marnixR in forum Biology
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: April 9th, 2008, 03:14 AM
  5. Happy Darwin Day!
    By paralith in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: February 13th, 2008, 12:07 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •