Notices
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Speciation question

  1. #1 Speciation question 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3
    Just wondering. Is there a set level of genetic variation between two close species, wherein they can no longer interbreed and produce fertile offspring? Perhaps a certain percentage of their genetic code? Does a higher gene count allow for more variation, before true speciation occurs?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,672
    Yes and no..

    only like 5% of the dna is usefull (of what we know off)

    the rest can be different (like 95%)

    it can still be the exact same species with a 95% variation in their genes.

    but.. the number of chromosomes does have to be the same.
    the lenght and weight of the chromosomes also do have to be the same.
    the size of the sperm and the size of the egg also do have to be the same.
    animal size is also relevant.

    i bet there are other factors, but i don't know them.. for 2 different species to get fertile offspring... i don't know if it is possible, it are none the less 2 different genotypes.

    more genes means more variation (ofcourse) and for the rest i don't exactly know what you mean.


    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    dont forget that behvaior needs to be the same, if they are to different they arent attractive toe ach other
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,672
    a butterfly and a gorilla won't have sex....
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3
    Thanks. I've been out of the loop for a while, so I'm trying to get a better understanding of certain things.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    a butterfly and a gorilla won't have sex....
    Zoooms into noacks ark
    noak: "WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?" and point on a pinguin with elephant head
    elephant: "You didnt give and specefic rules of how to mate"
    noak: "have u named it?"
    elephant: "its george"
    noak: "THIS IS SO *BEEP*ING NICE, I`LL JUST THREW THAT*BEEP*ING THING OVER BOARD
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    2,377
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    Yes and no..

    only like 5% of the dna is usefull (of what we know off)

    the rest can be different (like 95%)

    it can still be the exact same species with a 95% variation in their genes.
    I don't see how that can be possible. The genetic distance between humans and rabbits is about 33%, meaning we are 67% alike when compared with our furry little friends. Indeed, the genetic distance between people (Homo sapiens) and chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) is between 1-2%, making us 98-99% alike.

    We are definately different species.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,672
    :? i was saying that the "junk dna" change has no effect (yet to be proven) on the organism.. I bet your numbers mean the amount of genes that do have a function.

    indeed, a chimpansee has more resemblances than a rabbit.. but a mouse already comes way closer than a rabbit to a human. still i wonder what scources you have..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    2,377
    Sources:

    Page, SL; Chiu, C; Goodman, M. (1999). Molecular phylogeny of Old World monkeys (Cercopithecidae) as inferred from gamma-globin DNA sequences. Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution, 13(2):348-59

    I've another somewhere in my notes, but it eludes me for the moment.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10 Re: Speciation question 
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,191
    Quote Originally Posted by Partialartist
    Just wondering. Is there a set level of genetic variation between two close species, wherein they can no longer interbreed and produce fertile offspring? Perhaps a certain percentage of their genetic code? Does a higher gene count allow for more variation, before true speciation occurs?
    Certainly a different chromosome number will limit interbreeding.

    A set level of genetic variation? No. That would be totally dependent on the phenotypic and behavioural effects of said genetic variation.

    A slight mutation could alter the behaviour dramatically. A huge amount of variation could lie dormant till the right factors appear before speciation is truly occuring.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11 Re: Speciation question 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Quote Originally Posted by Partialartist
    Just wondering. Is there a set level of genetic variation between two close species, wherein they can no longer interbreed and produce fertile offspring? Perhaps a certain percentage of their genetic code? Does a higher gene count allow for more variation, before true speciation occurs?
    Certainly a different chromosome number will limit interbreeding.

    A set level of genetic variation? No. That would be totally dependent on the phenotypic and behavioural effects of said genetic variation.

    A slight mutation could alter the behaviour dramatically. A huge amount of variation could lie dormant till the right factors appear before speciation is truly occuring.
    Much obliged.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •