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Thread: Evolution and co-incidence; my mind is boggling

  1. #1 Evolution and co-incidence; my mind is boggling 
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    In the Evolution of species that breed by male-female mating: How did the first male-female breeding-pair of each distinct species happen to evolve in the same vicinity AND at about the same time If this COINCIDENCE had to happen for each line of such species (kangaroos, crocodiles, elephants, humans, etc) then it must have be a very common happening Do scientists think it could be just CHANCE everytime


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  3. #2 Re: Evolution and co-incidence; my mind is boggling 
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    Species arise from earlier species. It is common for members of the earlier species to live in proximity to each other.


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  4. #3 Re: Evolution and co-incidence; my mind is boggling 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    In the Evolution of species that breed by male-female mating: How did the first male-female breeding-pair of each distinct species happen to evolve in the same vicinity AND at about the same time If this COINCIDENCE had to happen for each line of such species (kangaroos, crocodiles, elephants, humans, etc) then it must have be a very common happening Do scientists think it could be just CHANCE everytime
    Im sure someone will explain better, but suffice to say you would never get such an abrupt change as to only be left with one breeding pair for a new species, it could take 100,000s of years for a decended species genes to be so different from the original species that they cant interbreed, therefor a new species would quite comfortably have thousnds upon thousands of breeding pairs at the point of becoming a new species.
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
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  5. #4 Evolution and co-incidence 
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    Thankyou very much for your answers but I am thinking of the evolution from the time when there were NO male-female mating species to the time when there were the FIRST male-female mating species. I would like to know about the arrival of the FIRST pair of male-female maters in each species.

    I can see male and female apes evolving to humans; like one ape mutates with less hair and breeds with hairy ones to make less hairy children and so they would go on down through time. But before there was evolution like this do we need lots of coincidence for the first male of the maters to evolve in the proximity of the first female of the maters to evolve

    To help you understand my question it could be a very old question and so the people who wrote Genesis try to answer this question when they say that God made male and female of different animals at the same time and at the same place Thank you.
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  6. #5  
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    I really can't guess at how it started, but it isn't hard to see why the trait would catch on. There are definitely evolutionary benefits to sexual reproduction. What springs right to mind is genetic variability (more genes is better), and this provides an avenue for beneficial mutations to spread more rapidly. I'm sure there are plenty more benefits of combining the DNA of 2 parent organisms, versus just one.
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
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    The answer is that haploid cells were being formed in eukaryotes through meosis long before multicellular species were developed.

    In short: the idea of male/female organisms existed before vertebrates evolved, so there didn't exist a vertebrate species that wasn't already male/female in in gender.
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  8. #7 Re: Evolution and co-incidence 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    To help you understand my question it could be a very old question and so the people who wrote Genesis try to answer this question when they say that God made male and female of different animals at the same time and at the same place
    So is this the modern scientific answer: There was a cellular soup (a soup of various cells) which included already male-female maters and from this soup there evolved at least one line of multi-cellular male-female maters which we today see as crocodiles, kangaroos, humans, etc

    So could we give a modern paraphrase of Genesis by saying: The male and female lines of the different species that we see today had their ancestry in primordial cellular soups in which one breeding mechanism was already by male-female mating

    It would be good to put the modern technical terms into a simple story like Genesis. Like: Soon after the Beginning there were Diploid and Eukaryotes cells that made love, some pairings producing four female Haploids and others producing four male Haploids. Then breeding by male-female mating began among the Haploids ... . See

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiosis
    Lil
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  9. #8 Re: Evolution and co-incidence 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    Soon after the Beginning there were Diploid and Eukaryotes cells that made love,
    I am not sure if made love is the scientific way to describe eukaryote reproduction. You do have a flair for words, however.
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  10. #9  
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    8) why just 2 genders, nature knows also 2 others. Genderless and Both gendered.. Maybe also others... Also variating genders and drone :wink: maybe even others...
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  11. #10 Re: Evolution and co-incidence 
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    [quote="Hermes"]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    I am not sure if made love is the scientific way to describe eukaryote reproduction.
    I first had the Dips invading the Euks (a sign of our times). However, as it seems to be a friendly absorption process, LOVE seemed a nicer way to give my present understanding. And so:

    ''In the Beginning*, Love greated the Haps; male and female, Love created them.''

    *of mating
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  12. #11 Evolution and co-incidence 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    8) why just 2 genders, nature knows also 2 others. Genderless and Both gendered.. Maybe also others... Also variating genders and drone :wink: maybe even others...
    Yes, I agree; but remember that my starting interest was in the male-female lines of reproduction. And remember that the Dips and the Euks are not male and female so we already have some of the types that you mention. That's why it would be good if a Biologist would write (on this site) a short Bible of the cellular world. It would only require a few paragraphs with some good cross-references to some good sites. Maybe it could begin (with some kidding from your signature) :-D

    ''In the Beginning, Love created ... ... Dips and Euks; neither male nor female, Love created them. And so there was Life. And the end of Life: Death. So there was Love, Dips , Euks, Life: and Death.

    And Death was the start of new Life: For some Dip-Euk combos died to yield male Haps; and some Dip-Euk combos died to yield female Haps.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiosis

    And thus it was in the Beginning: Love, Dips, Euks, Life, Death, male Haps, female Haps: and Mating.

    And Mating continued upon the face of the Earth (and in caves) to produce Zwolver: and Me.''
    Lil
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  13. #12 Re: Evolution and co-incidence 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    it would be good if a Biologist would write (on this site) a short Bible of the cellular world.'
    I would be far more interested in your rendition.

    '
    there was Love, Dips , Euks, Life: and Death.
    You seem to be gearing up for a Pentatuch.
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  14. #13  
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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ection.203#204

    The volvocaceans give a good model on how the difference has arisen in early multicellular life between somatic and reproductive cells.

    The next step is also easily imaginable. By specializing the gametes you can increase the effectiveness. Sperm is specialized to 'swim'. Egss are specialized in giving the organism a good start.

    V. Carteri actually reproduces asexually most of the time and once a year it reproduces sexually.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    V. Carteri actually reproduces asexually most of the time and once a year it reproduces sexually.
    I know the feeling.
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  16. #15  
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    there is a species with over 100 different sexes, and each of those sexes can reproduce with about 50-60% of the remaining sexes
    so the amount of sexes and their roles isnt written in stone
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  17. #16  
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    and that species is :? .. ain't it in a science fiction book?
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    there is a species with over 100 different sexes, and each of those sexes can reproduce with about 50-60% of the remaining sexes
    so the amount of sexes and their roles isnt written in stone
    This sounds interesting. Can you elaborate?
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    there is a species with over 100 different sexes, and each of those sexes can reproduce with about 50-60% of the remaining sexes
    so the amount of sexes and their roles isnt written in stone
    Could you add some further information please? So we can investigate and learn more?

    Can you explain the nature of ''100 different sexes'' in your own words?
    Lil
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  20. #19  
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    Hey, Zelos.

    Need some help with your conquering?

    ''I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me''

    Like some spelling assistance so we can understand your message and submit on cue?
    Lil
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  21. #20  
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    i dont know their name in english, but thta species have 3 genes, of them comes in X types where x < 10 and the last gene comes in X types where 10 < x < 15. it starts out as a singel celled organism, then when it find someone to mate with they fuse toghather and a strange thing starts to happen. their cell core/nucleus starts to divide but not tthe cell. it do this many times and nafter a while becomes visible for the eye. it then looks up a place with much water that is high up and go there. once there it creates spore capsels in wich its spores is. after a while it releases all the spore and its lifecycle is done. i know that during middle ages thos biengs were sometimes refered to as "witch snot" direcly translated from swedish. when they are visible they look like something that came from the nose. they are facinating
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  22. #21  
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    Zelos, do you mean ''slime mould''?

    It seems to fit your description; especially that Swedish connection.
    Lil
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  23. #22  
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    It sounds like slime mould to me. A decidedly interesting 'beast'.

    Here are some links:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slime_mould
    This is a good overview.


    http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s189608.htm
    This is a fascinating article on an experiment which suggests slime moulds have a primitive intelligence.

    http://universe-review.ca/R10-18-slimemoulds.htm
    This focuses on the slime mould life cycle.
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  24. #23  
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    I'm not sure how right i am but i thought all species came from a single ancestral specie? so it isn't really a matter of male- female reproduction within each different specie right? lol do correct me if i'm wrong
    cause tramps like us, baby, we were born to run
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  25. #24 Re: Evolution and co-incidence; my mind is boggling 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    In the Evolution of species that breed by male-female mating: How did the first male-female breeding-pair of each distinct species happen to evolve in the same vicinity AND at about the same time If this COINCIDENCE had to happen for each line of such species (kangaroos, crocodiles, elephants, humans, etc) then it must have be a very common happening Do scientists think it could be just CHANCE everytime

    The theory most biological researchers is the one of Darwin. His theory says that it al began with one celled organisms. Those lived from the food found was in the water they al lived in. Eventualy there wasn't enough food anymore for al the organisms and a fight began. Only the strongest and biggest of the organism could survive so you had to elvolve to stay in the competition (this doesn't happen like in the series of pokemon or annything but trough the ofspring 8) ) Eventualy the sea became to dangerous and the first fish started to get longs to breath above water. Not long after the first organism came on land and found new ways of feeding themselves. (This is a verry short version)

    Evolution goes verry slow and it takes ages for new species to 'devellop'. It starts with one organism who has an 'error' within its genes. This organism is stil able to pare with the originnal species because it is only a small difference. Though once paring, the gene will also be in the ofspring and this can be the beginning of a knew (sub)-species. This error can be just a smal difference like color or something, but it can also have to do with length or the making of a carbon. If there wil be more and more changes those changes can result as a new sub species. mostly you can stil see the connections, but there are differences. [/img]
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  26. #25  
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    waaaaaaw.

    thanks for the tree, i was looking for it everywhere
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    waaaaaaw.

    thanks for the tree, i was looking for it everywhere
    No problem. :wink:
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