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Thread: *NEW* I can feel x-rays!

  1. #1 *NEW* I can feel x-rays! 
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    I registered specifically for this thread. I guarantee you that I have felt an x-ray before. I have felt it MULTIPLE times. It feels like a tingling or a very low current going through the portion of your body being x-rayed or whatever. The first time i told the doctor and he was like thats interesting. The second time (months later) i had forgotten completely about it. Im standing there getting my knee x-ray (i play sports) and i feel it again. and if feel it for every x-ray after that, they usually do like 3 each session so i guess i've felt it maybe 6 times.

    weird though... i have gotten x-rays in the past and didnt start feeling them up until about a year ago (i am 21 now)

    Honestly, I am 99% sure that this was no placebo. I would be willing to prove it to.


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  3. #2 That's certainly surprising 
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    I know truly minimal knowledge about X-Rays, but am certain they pass through human flesh due to their tiny wavelengths. But I'm guessing they bounce off or diffract around bones since X-Ray photos show pictures of bones. So on that thought, your claim that you can feel X-Rays is more unbelievable than someone saying they can feel radio-waves (which have much greater wavelengths). Of course, there's the possibility the X-Ray machine emits some other electromagnetic wave (perhaps heat). It's also probable that X-Rays have a sensible effect on people like the infrared, but considering the amount of people using X-Rays in modern society, along with my personal experience, I doubt it.


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    I also registered just for this, but i can feel radio waves
    For example I can feel when a phone is going to ring (before it rings).
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    Riiiight. Sorry, I just find this too hard to believe that you can simply feel this, you might think you can or felt something else, but it's more likely psychological than anything else. You know the x-rays are hitting you so you "feel" something. I can make myself "feel" it too, but does that mean I did? No, it does not. However, x-rays can...have an adverse effect you might feel over a long period of time (that's why x-ray techs have to stand in a lead room and, if they start feeling sickly, go home), but from your description, it doesn't seem like what you're going through. Don't worry, you're probably...mostly fine. Probably. :P
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdolasMystogan View Post
    I also registered just for this, but i can feel radio waves
    For example I can feel when a phone is going to ring (before it rings).
    No you don't. You would never stop "feeling" it. You are always bathing in some kind of radiation, in all likelyhood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmounes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdolasMystogan View Post
    I also registered just for this, but i can feel radio waves
    For example I can feel when a phone is going to ring (before it rings).
    No you don't. You would never stop "feeling" it. You are always bathing in some kind of radiation, in all likelyhood.
    Indeed, all you need to do it turn on a radio to see that you are bathed in a constant flux of radio waves, and your built in receivers (eyes) decode another part of the spectrum all the time.

    The 40 volt phone ringer signal wouldn't cause a field any higher.
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  8. #7  
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    I registered specifically for this thread. I guarantee you that I have felt an x-ray before. I have felt it MULTIPLE times. It feels like a tingling or a very low current going through the portion of your body being x-rayed or whatever. The first time i told the doctor and he was like thats interesting. The second time (months later) i had forgotten completely about it. Im standing there getting my knee x-ray (i play sports) and i feel it again. and if feel it for every x-ray after that, they usually do like 3 each session so i guess i've felt it maybe 6 times.

    weird though... i have gotten x-rays in the past and didnt start feeling them up until about a year ago (i am 21 now)

    Honestly, I am 99% sure that this was no placebo. I would be willing to prove it to.
    This is possible. Melanin (skin pigment) could absorb gamma radiation and produce electricity. It was mentioned here: Melanin's 'trick' for maintaining radioprotection studied
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    Just had 2 x-rays on my knee and I can guarantee I felt it both times as the sensation was not unlike a puff of air with a slight tingle. I have since tried googling about it and what I think happened was due to dry air and static in the sweatpants I had on and rolled up, my leg hairs were already slightly charged. So I was most likely feeling charged air particles produced by the interaction of the ionizing X rays with air. While a definitive answer would be nice, this is at least something.
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    The important test would be if you could feel the "x ray effect" when you did not know you were being x rayed. Similarly you would need to test if you have this feeling when everything is set up to take an x ray but in fact none was administered. To make the testing truely double blind no one in the room with you should know if an x ray is actually being administered.

    Itis very easy to fool oneself that you feel something when you know something is happening. Dowsers really believe they can sense water and other hidden things but careful double blind testing has shown it to be illusion.
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    If you are serious contact the randi foundation they will help you set up a test of your ablity. There is big money in this if you can prove a paranormal sense.
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    Well now this is interesting. I had x-rays today of my knees and hips. I was given a pair of paper shorts to wear but my knees were bare. I felt nothing when my knees were x-rayed and the transmitter was maybe 1 meter away. But when the hips were x-rayed, I felt a definite heat flush which felt like it was mostly on the surface facing the transmitter, with maybe a little warmth down the side and behind. The transmitter was about 1.5 meters away for the hip x-rays. I had three images of the knees and felt nothing, and two of the hips where I felt the heat both times. I told the tech after the first one and she looked puzzled and said she heard someone else say that years previously. I mentioned it to my physician, and he commented that the lights did not dim. I am convinced it happened, and I think Colinlaw above has the best explanation I have found so far. Fascinating!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealeaf View Post
    There is big money in this if you can prove a paranormal sense.
    They're more looking for the supernatural than the paranormal. This is in no way supernatural. It's feeling something demonstrably real, but which isn't normally felt by other people.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  14. #13 It's true..... 
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    Just had my knees xrayed yesterday morning. 5 different shots, each time I felt a sensation like somebody "blew air on my legs" simaltaneous with the hum of the xray machine when it was activated. I questioned the tech about it when it happened the first time because it freaked me out. She said that it is caused by static electricity on my skin or leg hairs.......can anyone confirm this?
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    I just had an x-ray done yesterday of my lower left leg and it felt like someone was microwaving my leg --- like a 'zzzz' feeling of all of the cells vibrating. I really do not like the feeling. I have no visible hair on my legs as the hair was removed by laser a couple of years ago, but it's possible that the hair follicles still exist (but are baby fine). btw, I had no pants on that part of the leg when they took the picture. I always get this strange "getting cooked" sensation with x-rays and remember especially feeling it with mouth x-rays as a child. I have always felt them in my mouth as an adult, too, and anywhere I've had an x-ray.

    Up until last night, I just assumed that everyone else felt these sensations, too. I asked the tech last evening about this and she said that nobody else had ever mentioned it. I said I should 'google' it and ... well, here I am.

    To those who quickly dismiss the ones who claim to feel x-rays, I'd advise you to do a lot more homework first and wait for any sort of double-blind tests if you are truly a scientist. Case in point: don't assume that the world is flat just because you have no other data to support it being round. You can state that you have no data or knowledge to support our experiences, but to jump to a conclusion based on mere book knowledge is stupid and irresponsible to the art of science discoveries. Discoveries often come from these sorts of "accidental" findings all of the time! Re-read the story about the guy who claimed that there will little creepy crawlies on the hands of doctors which were killing the patients in their hospitals. No science could support him, at first, but then they invented the microscope and VOILA. I'd say that the pattern of dead bodies *in* the hospital, but not if they stayed home would have been my first clue. Just some observation and pattern recognition going on there --- falls into the "common sense" category.

    A true scientist has an open mind and lots of question marks around it. It's really 'ok' to not know the answer the moment the question is asked.
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  16. #15  
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    p.s. I wonder if having some sort of rare genetic connective tissue disorder would make one person be able to sense it more than another? This one will not be easy to tease out of the data if a randomized double-blind test were done since (a) such genetic connective tissue disorders are extremely rare, and (b) having an allele or double allele doesn't always present with symptoms (many people who have connective tissue issues (of the mild form) don't even know they are in the minority of the minorities). If a randomized double-blind test is done and a subset of folks are accurate (and others are not), I would suggest that they pull out the ones who are accurate and find out what genetics they have in common. Or, see if they have something common in their diet that others do not, e.g. a mineral.

    Running to the paranormal on this should not be a first step. Just because we don't understand it "yet" in science does not mean that the person experiencing it is whacko or has paranormal abilities. I am not discounting the possibility of being insane or paranormal, but I would point out that alleged "scientists" on this board also border on taking the path of insanity if they aren't patient enough to wait for data and seek out data before drawing their conclusions.
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    I just had an x-ray done yesterday of my lower left leg and it felt like someone was microwaving my leg --- like a 'zzzz' feeling of all of the cells vibrating. I really do not like the feeling. I have no visible hair on my legs as the hair was removed by laser a couple of years ago, but it's possible that the hair follicles still exist (but are baby fine). btw, I had no pants on that part of the leg when they took the picture. I always get this strange "getting cooked" sensation with x-rays and remember especially feeling it with mouth x-rays as a child. I have always felt them in my mouth as an adult, too, and anywhere I've had an x-ray.

    Up until last night, I just assumed that everyone else felt these sensations, too. I asked the tech last evening about this and she said that nobody else had ever mentioned it. I said I should 'google' it and ... well, here I am.

    ......A true scientist has an open mind and lots of question marks around it. It's really 'ok' to not know the answer the moment the question is asked.
    Fine, but I'd urge you to follow your own advice: don't just assume that because you think you felt the x-rays, that you actually did.

    Do this experiment:

    Get someone you trust to help you. Sit down on a chair and have them standing behind you so you can't see them. Ask them to hold their open hand behind your head; let them point a knife at your neck or some region on your back. Let them tell you where it is, and then not. Play around a bit and you'll probably start to "feel" their hand right behind your head or in your face without touching, or the knife pointed close to the small of your back. The reason for this is not because there are invisible "proximity rays" or "danger rays " that you can sense, but because your mind is creating these sensations.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  18. #17  
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    I wonder if having some sort of rare genetic connective tissue disorder would make one person be able to sense it more than another?
    I'd be more inclined to stick within the range of neurological/sensory disorders. I have one of these and I get some odd, peculiar, sometimes nasty, sometimes baffling skin sensations at various times. Usually it's the extremely distracting invisible army of creepy crawlies all over one or both arms that really makes you think you're losing it. Fortunately I've not had one of those episodes for a good long while - I'm more inclined to the other kind of problem, numbness. Neurology has many gifts you'd rather not open.

    One thing noone's mentioned. Having an x-ray or similar procedure is often an uncomfortable experience. Anyone with a crook back can tell you that lying flat on those tables can be as close to torture as dammit is to swearing. When you're already alert to bodily sensation, you're in an unfamiliar environment full of powerful machinery with its associated not-quite-discernible humming (and probably in a bit of pain or anxiety in the first place) you need to think carefully before taking your perceptions seriously.
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    Really this effect is only real if double blind testing confirms it. By the way I have felt this sort of thing as well but I assumed that there were other mechical effects that I was feeling, a fan cooling the xray equipment. The x ray buzzes when it is used so something is in motion.
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    Yes. I was thinking about that 'crackly' feeling you get in oppressive weather when storms are getting closer. It goes away before the lightning starts usually.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    @KALSTER: I guess you haven't read any of my other posts. I'm the one suggesting randomized double-blind tests. I don't need to be patronized with knives.
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    @Adelady:

    My son was diagnosed with sensory integration dysfunction with tactile dysfunction as his main culprit. He got this from his Dad.

    I definitely did not have it as a child nor an adult. I could take a lot of horsing around with siblings and falling, getting hurt, etc. than my son ever, ever could (or will). His father is still extremely sensitive on his skin. Both have a weakness (associated as a co-morbidity and called "low tone" by the occupational therapists of the world) such that they can barely open a jar of spaghetti sauce --- they always had the jar to me when they get stuck. Both could not button their shirts until a fairly late age, stuff like that (long list). Again, I had none of that in my background.

    Case in point: my x-ray sensation abilities, if they truly exist, are not born of sensory dysfunction ..... at least, of the tactile kind. Maybe there's a sub-tactile version!

    I do know what you mean, though, about weirdness with neuro stuff. Once, I had my wisdom teeth removed. They damaged some sort of nerve such that I could not feel my chin for weeks. I could dribble soup down my chin and not know it. They were hopeful that the nerve would come back online. And, it did. But, it was a slow process. As it was coming back "online", it was extremely sensitive. If just 1 piece of hair (from my head) happened across my chin, it felt like a freakin' knife --- or something less painful, but just extremely annoying (as it got better). Once fully repaired, all was back to normal sensations!
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    @Sealeaf: Yes, the sensation is real and is being observed by more than one of us who are unrelated.
    @ Kalster: Yes, the cause is uncertain. I will not "unclaim" my experience/observation because the perception of a feeling, that occurs in no other setting, is real.
    I'm very careful about these things and quite skeptical. No reason to doubt my ability to keep observations apart from a conclusion jump. It is the others who immediately said 'no' to a possibility (albeit one of many possibilities and perhaps a shady hypothesis, at best), who scare me. Those alleged scientists need to keep science from going back in the dark by guarding their impulsiveness.

    I will add to my personal observations that the sensation stops at the exact moment the sound stops from the machine, pretty sure. I'm not willing to be a guinea pig on this and go back unless I actually need an x-ray, but I'll try to note it all next time. And, I don't know enough about the mechanics of the machine to say if there's a fan or what. I can say that it seems to penetrate the interior, far below the surface of the skin, in my experience, and it's not pleasant. I have felt those TENS machines ---- it's akin to that for me, but much weirder and penetrates way below the skin ---- feels like every cell is vibrating in that part of the body. I "may" be getting the sensation more from the bone than the rest of the tissues, but, again, I'll have to pay closer attention next time. I'd say that if those who are receivign the sensations can pay closer attention next time, then perhaps some research student can go forth with a target for questions following any sort of randomized double-blind study.

    Makes me wonder if the companies who make x-ray machines already know about all of this --- that some people claim to be able to feel the effects during the photo shoot? It would probably not be made public, though, as it would scare people away.
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  24. #23  
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    It would probably not be made public, though, as it would scare people away.
    Don't think so. There are plenty of leaflets advsing you what to expect with all sorts of equipment and procedures. You know the sort of thing. "Tell the operator if you feel hot/cold/pain at any time."

    If it were at all common, there'd be a little sign warning you that you might feel something-or-other.
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    I feel x-rays when I get them at the dentist, and the strange sensation lasts for a while afterwards. The affected area feels tingly and thick. I never feel this sensation other then when I'm getting x-rays.
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  26. #25 Minerals? 
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    maybe some of us have more minerals in our bones than others? A rare type of person? I have B- blood which is very rare, too. Maybe it's something in the marrow.
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    I have B- blood which is very rare, too. Maybe it's something in the marrow.
    I looked it up - and I've really learned something. I'd always presumed that blood types and their incidence was much the same around the world. How wrong can you be! It depends which country you're in just how common/uncommon your blood type is (unless you're Rh negative, that's uncommon everywhere for all blood types).

    Check the table halfway down the page. Blood type - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    @adelady --- Wikipedia lists that chart (by country) as currently under dispute so I would not use it yet.

    In any event, I stated in my original message that I have B- blood (the hyphen means 'negative') and it is about 1% of the population by some sources, up to 2%, at most. I have not said anything in error in my last message --- I suppose you missed the hyphen (minus sign).
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    Oh no, my comment was about the fact that I was so surprised that those figures differed so widely from country to country. Not that anything you said was wrong.

    I realise some figures would be doubtful, but most of the industrialised economies have pretty good stats. I've always thought my AB (can't remember + or -) was 'rare', but in Japan AB+ is more common than B+ is in mine. Fascinating.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    @adelady -- gotcha. Yeah, I keep meaning to read a book or 2 about the blood types and specific food stuffs that are better for any particular type. AB is a good thing to have, I believe. Sort of balanced in the pH dept or something --- don't quote me. Some areas will not eat certain kinds of food, so I believe this actually does affect the blood type, e.g. no dairy in China, vegetarian-ish in India. Someone told me that our crappy USA foods (GMO, etc.) were actually causing a new blood type in the USA --- seeing it here and there. Again, don't quote --- my source is a good one, but I can't promise I remembered what he said perfectly --- although I do remember him saying new blood type as reaction to US diet. Probably not a good thing. I'd say to google it if you find that interesting, too!
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    I've felt that tingling sensation also. I've only gotten x rays from the dentist and there's a pins and needles sensation where the x ray is occurring. Afterwards my cheeks feel as though they were frost bitten, kind of numb. I also get the same sensation (but on a much smaller scale) from sitting/standing in front of the microwave.
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  32. #31 microwave 
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    I vaguely recall thinking I felt microwaves, too, but I don't right now. p.s. You should buy something that checks if your microwave is leaking or not, perhaps!
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter5252 View Post
    I also get the same sensation (but on a much smaller scale) from sitting/standing in front of the microwave.
    Either your microwave is broken and you are exposing yourself to dangerous levels of radiation or it is psychological. I would put a large bet on the latter.
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  34. #33  
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    When I was a kid, I could hear a tv being on in some other part of the house even if the sound was turned all the way down. a weird very high pitch whining sound in my ears. I don't notice it so much now but we have so many electronics on at a given time that it may be getting drowned out, or it may be that the technology that runs a tv has changed. maybe it was the old tubes I could hear working.

    but never felt an x-ray or microwave. once while walking close to a power station my hair got all staticy and stood on end. And sometimes, I ramble on about stuff no one cares about. but don't worry I don't do it in forums.... ever.

    oh and one time in band camp....
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    When I was a kid, I could hear a tv being on in some other part of the house even if the sound was turned all the way down. a weird very high pitch whining sound in my ears.
    Old-fashioned TVs had high frequency oscillators driving high voltage system to control beam scanning. This would cause physical vibrations in components which is what you hear. Modern TVs have much lower voltages and don't scan in the same way so don't make the same noises. Some might have switch-mode power supplies which can sometimes be heard (very faintly).
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  36. #35  
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    Some birds can see magnetic fields. People have Synaesthesia allowing them to literally see taste, or hear smell. Some people have also been reported as being able to see UV radiation. So I guess this isn't TOO unbelievable. After all, what's evolution for?
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    Well, good morning to everyone.
    I am Italian and I was looking for this real rare discussion for some explanation.

    This morning I have gone to make a radiography for an examination to the teeth.
    Just the radiography is initiated I have felt a heat from behind the ears and for the whole nape until it ended.
    I refers to doctor but he says me it was an impression.
    I immediately remember taht the same thing has happened me for the same examination two years ago but I didn't make as case.
    I really believe in the facto.
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  38. #37  
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    Without a blind (preferably double-blind) test I remain totally unconvinced.

    This is because when similar claims ("I am sensitive to mobile pohones, Wi-Fi, etc") have been investigated there was no detectable effect.
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    I don't care if you believe me or not.
    I'm sure what happened me and I'm searching for an explanation regarding about and if other people gain the same effect.
    Sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeco View Post
    I don't care if you believe me or not.
    Don't worry. I believe you. I believe you felt something. It is a real effect.

    I am just sceptical that what you are feeling is X-Rays.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    @madeco: Good for you! p.s. I am sick and tired of people who attempt to invalidate another person's feelings/experience. We state what we actually are experiencing for a reason and we're here seeking scientific answers for a reason.

    I also have noticed that doctors have taken the approach of believing that it's in the patient's head if they are unable to make the diagnosis. Instead of encouraging further investigation or looking for other angles to unlock the secret, their first gut reaction is that the patient is loony. My daughter has a rare congenital disorder (Chiari Malformation) that, luckily, was diagnosed correctly within 4 months effort by the docs. Other Chiarians aren't so lucky and the average time is 8 years before they are diagnosed correctly. Most are told that the problem is "in their head" (imagined). The docs are right that it IS in their head, but not that it is imagined! One MRI and the problem is found (as long as they know how to read the dang MRI, that is). LOL!

    Anyway, that is a side tangent, but I just want to point out that the TRULY scientific would not be so hasty to debunk. Instead, they would put it on the shelf with a '?' over it and attempt to consider many other angles to approach it. Seems like today's "smart" doctors (and others) are so willing to say "f*** logic! It must be their imagination!". I say "FAIL. Those of you who must jump to conclusions because you cannot stand the feeling of not knowing the answer need to shush and let the rest of us solve it. Tough problems are, by definition, tough to solve. Shush and let the expert problem solvers brainstorm and move towards theories which can hopefully be tested someday."

    off my soapbox

    Quote Originally Posted by madeco View Post
    I don't care if you believe me or not.
    I'm sure what happened me and I'm searching for an explanation regarding about and if other people gain the same effect.
    Sorry.
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    Well, I understood you: I felt something (soft but real warm).
    The strange was that I felt this only during Xray working time (about 15 secs). I was impressed due I felt the same in the same way in past.
    I'm a normal man before and after the case and I normally use to give responses. Surely not suggestion and not worried.
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    I have a Microwave Oven Leakage Detector from Pro-Lab called The Detecto Card. It's fairly inexpensive (got it off of Amazon.com, I think) and really, really easy to use. I had emailed the representative and they swore that it worked as advertised. Anyway, my old microwave doesn't have any radiation leaking from it. You might want to check.

    I did stand next to the microwave and felt the sensation. I think I had previously trained myself to leave the room or step away because I was afraid that it was leaking (but the Pro-Lab card says it isn't). Anyway, I am now wondering if there is a physical mechanism that vibrates at a very fast speed (motor?) that makes the microwaves and x-rays "work" and that we are somehow feeling that sensation? I have to look into this more, but that is just a thought.

    For x-rays, though, it's very penetrating. I swear it is jiggling my bones or something deep down. I also think it does something to my heart.

    Don't they tell people who have pacemakers to not go through some sort of checker at the airports? If so, why exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Potter5252 View Post
    I've felt that tingling sensation also. I've only gotten x rays from the dentist and there's a pins and needles sensation where the x ray is occurring. Afterwards my cheeks feel as though they were frost bitten, kind of numb. I also get the same sensation (but on a much smaller scale) from sitting/standing in front of the microwave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    @madeco: Good for you! p.s. I am sick and tired of people who attempt to invalidate another person's feelings/experience. We state what we actually are experiencing for a reason and we're here seeking scientific answers for a reason.

    I also have noticed that doctors have taken the approach of believing that it's in the patient's head if they are unable to make the diagnosis. Instead of encouraging further investigation or looking for other angles to unlock the secret, their first gut reaction is that the patient is loony. My daughter has a rare congenital disorder (Chiari Malformation) that, luckily, was diagnosed correctly within 4 months effort by the docs. Other Chiarians aren't so lucky and the average time is 8 years before they are diagnosed correctly. Most are told that the problem is "in their head" (imagined). The docs are right that it IS in their head, but not that it is imagined! One MRI and the problem is found (as long as they know how to read the dang MRI, that is). LOL!

    Anyway, that is a side tangent, but I just want to point out that the TRULY scientific would not be so hasty to debunk. Instead, they would put it on the shelf with a '?' over it and attempt to consider many other angles to approach it. Seems like today's "smart" doctors (and others) are so willing to say "f*** logic! It must be their imagination!". I say "FAIL. Those of you who must jump to conclusions because you cannot stand the feeling of not knowing the answer need to shush and let the rest of us solve it. Tough problems are, by definition, tough to solve. Shush and let the expert problem solvers brainstorm and move towards theories which can hopefully be tested someday."

    off my soapbox

    Quote Originally Posted by madeco View Post
    I don't care if you believe me or not.
    I'm sure what happened me and I'm searching for an explanation regarding about and if other people gain the same effect.
    Sorry.
    I really appreciate your quote, the first thing I suppose this morning was not I'm Special.
    This morning I suppose I'm sick and I don't knew before! Just that.
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    Sorry, but I'm a little bit sure that Xray work differently from Microwave oven.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    @madeco: Good for you! p.s. I am sick and tired of people who attempt to invalidate another person's feelings/experience. We state what we actually are experiencing for a reason and we're here seeking scientific answers for a reason.
    I can relate to this pretty personally.
    See, I'm on of very few people that remembers my own birth. But I rarely mention or talk about it because it's only reasonable for most people to doubt it.
    It's what being a skeptic is all about.

    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    I also have noticed that doctors have taken the approach of believing that it's in the patient's head if they are unable to make the diagnosis.
    It's a matter of odds. Sometimes, it's not psycho-symptomatic.
    But most of the time it is. It's always best to look for evidence if possible, and not just assume.
    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    Those of you who must jump to conclusions because you cannot stand the feeling of not knowing the answer need to shush and let the rest of us solve it. Tough problems are, by definition, tough to solve. Shush and let the expert problem solvers brainstorm and move towards theories which can hopefully be tested someday.
    You're not saying nonsense, but I do need to say, don't assume it's all just ego inflated bunk, either. Skeptics are skeptics for good reason:
    As it stands, you guys aren't the first to feel tingling sensations or heat. X-Rays pass right through normal tissue. So it's extremely unlikely for a person to feel X-RaysWhat most feel to realize is that in some cases, these are caused by other components of the scanning equipment itself.
    In others, it's in your head.
    But in rare cases, a person can have a physical reaction to X-Ray. I'd flipped through a radiology report some time back, gathered up on a case study. In some cases, this is due to skin irritations, but that's not the usual reason, so don't panic. I'm not sure what the usual reason is... (Although there was some hint about the equipment or the method of the exam) because the report I'd thumbed through was rather long and tedious and at the time, I didn't care that much (sorry, I was being nosy, not scientific at the time.)
    The short of it is that it's very rare for a person to feel X-Rays but under the right conditions, it can happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    @madeco: Good for you! p.s. I am sick and tired of people who attempt to invalidate another person's feelings/experience. We state what we actually are experiencing for a reason and we're here seeking scientific answers for a reason.
    I hope that is not aimed at me

    I have no intention of invalidating anyone's feelings or experience. If you feel something, then you feel it. Whether you feel it because you are actually sensitive to X-rays or your brain is fooling you into thinking you are sensitive to X-rays makes no difference. It is just as real.

    My best guess at a scientific answer is the latter. But if there is evidence that it is the former then I will accept that.
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    @Neverfly: And which are the right conditions?

    @everyone: Please, nothing has happened, this is a pacific discussion about...

    @Strange: in which manner my brain, that works fine :-), is fooling me? I'm searching for the evidence like you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    I have no intention of invalidating anyone's feelings or experience. If you feel something, then you feel it. Whether you feel it because you are actually sensitive to X-rays or your brain is fooling you into thinking you are sensitive to X-rays makes no difference. It is just as real.
    Most often, it is in the head.
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    My best guess at a scientific answer is the latter. But if there is evidence that it is the former then I will accept that.
    There is one for a small and rare exception of cases but...
    Quote Originally Posted by madeco View Post
    And which are the right conditions?
    ...I'm not telling what it is.
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    You're just joking with words and I don't want you tell me I'm crazy. IS IT CLEAR TO YOU?
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeco View Post
    You're just joking with words and I don't want you tell me I'm crazy. IS IT CLEAR TO YOU?
    No, not at all. I do not have any reason to believe that you're crazy. In fact, I pointed out that it is, indeed, possible that you felt the X-Rays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeco View Post
    You're just joking with words and I don't want you tell me I'm crazy. IS IT CLEAR TO YOU?
    No one is telling you that you are crazy.
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    This is interesting. My senses have always been acute (except for eyesight, I'm legally blind without my glasses) but I never really considered the idea that my own brain is tricking me into feeling what I am feeling. I have no doubts that it isn't capable of doing so, just never considered it. Madeco, you are not crazy and neither is anyone else here. We just all have our questions and are looking for possible explanations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeco View Post
    Sorry, but I'm a little bit sure that Xray work differently from Microwave oven.
    X-Rays and Microwaves can both be generated by aiming an electron beam at a metal target. Given there's usually a normal distribution of energies using such techniques, it's quite likely the chap that 'feels' X-Rays is actually feeling the longer wavelengths, which would interact more with his flesh, and produce a heating effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlogistician View Post
    X-Rays and Microwaves can both be generated by aiming an electron beam at a metal target. Given there's usually a normal distribution of energies using such techniques, it's quite likely the chap that 'feels' X-Rays is actually feeling the longer wavelengths, which would interact more with his flesh, and produce a heating effect.
    That is a plausible explanation. It may also be that the high voltages involved create electric fields that can be perceived.

    However, I just want to address the "crazy" thing.

    IF it turned out that the effect was not real (in all cases) and that some people only THINK they can detect X-rays (as has been found with W-Fi sensitivty, for example). That does NOT mean they are crazy, deluded, inferior, or that the effect is not real.

    Everything we perceive and feel is mediated by the brain. The brain is very good but sometimes makes mistakes. Look at some optical illusions: Optical illusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Even when you know it is an illusion, your brain will not let you see what is really there. That doesn't make you crazy.

    Or consider the placebo effect. A significant number of people given sugar pills instead of a real drug will report feeling better. This is a real and powerful effect. These people are not crazy.

    Or consider this: The Invisible Gorilla: And Other Ways Our Intuitions Deceive Us - I'll say no more except that roughly half the population are fooled by these tests. Those people are not crazy.

    Sometimes, if you see insects, you will feel as though they are crawling on your skin. This is not crazy.

    People can remember things that never happened to them. This is perfectly normal, not crazy.

    So, yes, there may be a physical explanation (which would be rather boring) but there might be a much more interesting psychological explanation.

    "Oh no, he said psychological; he must think I'm crazy!"
    No, I don't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    ... and that some people only THINK they can detect X-rays (as has been found with W-Fi sensitivty, for example).
    'WiFi/electromagnetic sensitivity' is an interesting one, I've read various articles and studies about this, and most of the sufferers seem to be complete flakes. Take this article:

    Woman forced to live in cage by electromagnetic allergy | The Sun |News

    Listed under the items she supposedly can't use, is satnav. Odd, given they have no transmitter, don't you think? Psychosomatic illness therefore?

    Or this one:

    The man living alone in the woods to escape Wi-Fi and mobile phones | Life and style | guardian.co.uk

    Again, sounds like Psychosomatic symptoms, given that he reports feeling OK when the locus of his ills is unseen, yet he's still being bombarded by radio waves in his caravan, and even operates some of the devices that are supposedly making him ill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlogistician View Post
    'WiFi/electromagnetic sensitivity' is an interesting one, I've read various articles and studies about this, and most of the sufferers seem to be complete flakes.
    And I was being so careful not to draw that conclusion.

    If someone refuses to accept that what they experience is psychosomatic despite the evidence then they are possibly bordering on delusional. There are, of course, a fascinating range of delusional disorders.

    But NO ONE (well, certainly not me) is suggesting that the people reporting sensations in this thread are delusional. Or flakes. Or crazy in any way.

    Of course, if someone says they are being continually x-rayed by aliens who want the secrets of the Rosicrucians then ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmounes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdolasMystogan View Post
    I also registered just for this, but i can feel radio waves
    For example I can feel when a phone is going to ring (before it rings).
    No you don't. You would never stop "feeling" it. You are always bathing in some kind of radiation, in all likelyhood.
    There certainly has been an unexplainable-up in meds distribution... perhaps this is worth exploring?
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeco View Post
    I don't care if you believe me or not.
    I'm sure what happened me and I'm searching for an explanation regarding about and if other people gain the same effect.
    Sorry.
    There have been reports and research that gives some credence to what you state. stranger things excist in what we consider tangable reality- that we never question
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    Wow, thread has filled in over the past few days.

    I remember feeling the x-ray feeling as far back as my first dental appointment as a child. I have felt it every time I have had an x-ray. The sensation only involves the part of the body receiving the x-ray. The sensation is quite uncomfortable and jiggly and even feels wrong/unhealthy. The sensation stops as soon as they shut off the x-ray --- lasts only a few seconds, therefore. I feel no heat during or after. I have no warning sensations prior to the x-ray being turned on.

    I hope that helps explain it a bit better.
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  61. #60 I had an xray yesterday on my hip and I felt it pass through my body like an invisible force... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by theycallmenick View Post
    I registered specifically for this thread. I guarantee you that I have felt an x-ray before. I have felt it MULTIPLE times. It feels like a tingling or a very low current going through the portion of your body being x-rayed or whatever. The first time i told the doctor and he was like thats interesting. The second time (months later) i had forgotten completely about it. Im standing there getting my knee x-ray (i play sports) and i feel it again. and if feel it for every x-ray after that, they usually do like 3 each session so i guess i've felt it maybe 6 times.weird though... i have gotten x-rays in the past and didnt start feeling them up until about a year ago (i am 21 now)Honestly, I am 99% sure that this was no placebo. I would be willing to prove it to.
    I had an xray of my hip yesterday and I felt it....it was a weird feeling like a spirit or so to speak passed through my body I told the tech that I can feel it and she said thats weird I bet I could close my eyes and have headphones on and tell you when it hits me it was that strong
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  63. #62 I'm with ya 
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    Yup, I agree with that. I'm sure that I could tell you when the x-ray is taken, too, even if I had loud music in my ears and blinders on. Not mistakable for anything else --- it has its own sensation different than anything else I've ever experienced.


    Quote Originally Posted by ruckusr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by theycallmenick View Post
    I registered specifically for this thread. I guarantee you that I have felt an x-ray before. I have felt it MULTIPLE times. It feels like a tingling or a very low current going through the portion of your body being x-rayed or whatever. The first time i told the doctor and he was like thats interesting. The second time (months later) i had forgotten completely about it. Im standing there getting my knee x-ray (i play sports) and i feel it again. and if feel it for every x-ray after that, they usually do like 3 each session so i guess i've felt it maybe 6 times.weird though... i have gotten x-rays in the past and didnt start feeling them up until about a year ago (i am 21 now)Honestly, I am 99% sure that this was no placebo. I would be willing to prove it to.
    I had an xray of my hip yesterday and I felt it....it was a weird feeling like a spirit or so to speak passed through my body I told the tech that I can feel it and she said thats weird I bet I could close my eyes and have headphones on and tell you when it hits me it was that strong
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruckusr View Post
    I bet I could close my eyes and have headphones on and tell you when it hits me it was that strong
    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    Yup, I agree with that. I'm sure that I could tell you when the x-ray is taken, too, even if I had loud music in my ears and blinders on.
    Note that there is a big difference between being certain that you would be able to tell and whether you actually could or not in a controlled experiment. Until someone does a double-blind trial, I will reserve judgement.
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    You can google 'bioelectromagnetics.' That is the study of the interaction between electromagnetic fields and living tissues. There is also the microwave auditory effect, or the Frey effect: Some people can hear clicking sounds in their heads when they are working close to devices that emit radar. There is also geophysical electrophonics, defined as "The production of audible noises of various kinds through direct conversion by transduction of very low frequency electromagnetic energy generated by a number of geophysical phenomena."

    I don't know why it is that some people are terrified at the thought that people are able to sense more than just the 'five senses' we were told about in school. We were told that there is nothing but sight, hearing, touch, taste, and smell, and that's all there is. But the human body can sense a million different things in a million different ways. Some people seem to react with extreme anxiety if anyone ever suggests that they can sense something which is 'unapproved of,' like we're 'not allowed' to sense a particular thing, because the authority figures said we can't.

    I can often feel lightning just before it strikes, but I only notice it when I am camping in my tent up on the mountain at a higher elevation, closer to the clouds. If I'm lying down trying to sleep in a thunderstorm, I feel this very frightening and unpleasant sensation which is hard to describe, a feeling of 'wrongness.' It's almost a burning feeling on my skin. Within a few seconds of feeling this, there will be a bolt of lightning. I'd have to do an experiment where I recorded my 'predictions' and then recorded the lightning flash immediately afterwards; however, I have better things to do than try to prove that I sense what I sense, because I am confident about my observations and I totally trust my senses, and I'm not terrified or threatened by the possibility of sensing things that the authority figures say I'm 'not supposed' to be able to feel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairlover View Post
    That is the study of the interaction between electromagnetic fields and living tissues.
    Well, of course. That is how we can see. That is why sticking your head in a microwave oven is a bad idea.

    I don't know why it is that some people are terrified at the thought that people are able to sense more than just the 'five senses' we were told about in school.
    No one is "terrified"; just sceptical. Are you saying we shouldn't be sceptical? We should just accept everything people say as true without thinking about it?

    I don't know why it is that some people are terrified at the thought that people want to take a rational approach to the world around them.

    I can often feel lightning just before it strikes, but I only notice it when I am camping in my tent up on the mountain at a higher elevation, closer to the clouds.
    That is not surprising. Strong electric fields have a noticeable effect.

    I am just slightly doubtful about X-rays because they pass through soft tissue. But given some of the comments above, I would not be surprised, shocked or terrified if it turned out that (some) people can detect them.

    However, I also know for a fact (based on solid experimental data) that people's own subjective opinion about what they experience is very unreliable and frequently wrong.

    I'm not terrified or threatened by the possibility of sensing things that the authority figures say I'm 'not supposed' to be able to feel.
    That is just silly. There is no authority telling you what you should be able to feel.

    p.s. and we obviously have far more than the naive 5 senses; about 20-ish probably...
    Last edited by Strange; January 17th, 2013 at 04:36 AM. Reason: added detail
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    This site needs the ability for me to click a thumbs-up ..... to longhairlover, in this case!
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    This site needs the ability for me to click a thumbs-up ..... to longhairlover, in this case!
    It does. Click the "Like" link at the bottom of a post.

    Edit: I see the link doesn't appear in some browsers unless you hover the mouse over it.

    Although I don't know why I am helping you Like that post
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    @Strange: I think that we get the point that you want a double-blind study and are skeptical. However, the desire to do so is limited by time and funding, as longhairlover said. I personally do not have this as my life's mission to resolve my observations. I joined this group hoping that someone else had already uncovered previous studies on it. As it appears that none of us have a beat on that, I suppose this group stands as an early "users group" of people who some future researcher can contact if guinea pigs are needed. In the meantime, we can touch back here and message each other if we do find that research is underway in this vein.

    Said differently, this is a mild interest and just one of those 'hmmmm, what's THAT?' sort of situations. Many of us here are skeptical scientists in our own right and don't need to have someone insisting that there's got to be a double-blind study done on this every single freakin' time someone new pops up on the radar. But, for sure, we don't need anyone squashing our enthusiasm every time another one of us pops up on the radar to join the chat. There is the human element of 'wonder' that Sagan had that we are all enjoying here in this chat, so maybe you could back off just a bit. I think we 'get' that we are only reporting our personal feelings about this at this time and that these experiences have not yet been included in an expensive study of any nature. In other words, can you just let people report their sensations and the rest of us who also have them can say "cool! I get that sensation, too? What could it be?" for now? And, anyone who has the resources to truly answer the questions or already has an analysis and journal article in hand, of course, is more than welcome to lead us out of the dark. In the meantime, we are more than aware that we're at the tip of the iceberg, thank you very much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    Said differently, this is a mild interest and just one of those 'hmmmm, what's THAT?' sort of situations.
    Sure. I understand that. It would be interesting to know. There doesn't seem to be any definitive research one way or the other. But I am definitely more open to the idea than I was at the start.

    I would have only made one post expressing mild scepticism if it hadn't been for people playing the victim and claiming that this suggested they were insane; or people saying that "people" (me?) were "terrified" ...
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    Clarification: one needs to have their cursor hovering over any part of the posting for the word 'Like' to even appear in the first place! Said differently, if you are reading a posting, but your cursor is positioned on a different posting or elsewhere (not inside the posting's box), you won't see the underlined word 'Like' whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    This site needs the ability for me to click a thumbs-up ..... to longhairlover, in this case!
    It does. Click the "Like" link at the bottom of a post.

    Edit: I see the link doesn't appear in some browsers unless you hover the mouse over it.

    Although I don't know why I am helping you Like that post
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    For the life of me, I cannot understand how a person can call themselves a scientist if they feel that they MUST draw a conclusion with inadequate data and inadequate studies. Why isn't it 'ok' to take the observational data, i.e. the patient's admission of some sort of sensation, and place it in the "?" bucket and seek answers later? Perhaps the legalities force the doctors to have to give a definitive conclusion even if it isn't scientifically sound.


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    None of what you just said made any sense- I'm going to break your post down and show you why:
    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    Why isn't it 'ok' to take the observational data, i.e. the patient's admission of some sort of sensation, and place it in the "?" bucket and seek answers later?
    That is exactly what's been done. You say, "Understand that the claim is made, seek verification or confirmation later." There is nothing at all wrong with this and that's what most posters here have done.
    Yet, you start out your post with a complaint: "Why don't you take my word for it as fact?" And then you say the above, which contradicts your complaint.
    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    For the life of me, I cannot understand how a person can call themselves a scientist if they feel that they MUST draw a conclusion with inadequate data and inadequate studies.
    Exactly. And no one here is willing to draw a conclusion from your claim alone. It's perfectly possible that you feel X-rays. It's also perfectly possible that you don't.
    It's unconfirmed and for the time being, the best anyone can do is take your word for it that you are convinced you feel X-rays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    For the life of me, I cannot understand how a person can call themselves a scientist if they feel that they MUST draw a conclusion with inadequate data and inadequate studies. Why isn't it 'ok' to take the observational data, i.e. the patient's admission of some sort of sensation, and place it in the "?" bucket and seek answers later? Perhaps the legalities force the doctors to have to give a definitive conclusion even if it isn't scientifically sound.
    Yeah it's also funny how people make a claim and insist that, despite everything science knows about x-rays and human physiolog,y they're absolutely right.
    To the extent that any contray view immediately attracts such comments as "oh you're scared of the truth" or "why do you insist on this as the solution?".

    It's also funny how the same people like to join a science forum and then complain when scientific answers are given. And how they can't be bothered to Google.
    Here's a hint: Google is your friend - "A human cannot sense X-ray radiation! Some people can feel the presence of X-rays on their skin as a kind of "tingling sensation." What these people are feeling are charged air particles produced by the interaction of X-rays with air."
    http://library.thinkquest.org/J0112189/x-rays.htm

    As is checking before jumping in.

    Edit: likewise longhairlover's experience is most likely due to electrical charge in the atmosphere building up to the discharge of lightning.

    Further edit: I just noticed that the solution was actually proposed in post #8 and was subsequently ignored.
    Last edited by Dywyddyr; January 18th, 2013 at 10:06 AM.
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    I'm not asking anyone to confirm that I feel what I feel. What I feel is a fact and is part of the observational data.

    I'm asking them to find a scientific explanation for the observation as longhairlover started to try to do.

    The doctor in the article jumped to a conclusion based on lack of studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    None of what you just said made any sense- I'm going to break your post down and show you why:
    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    Why isn't it 'ok' to take the observational data, i.e. the patient's admission of some sort of sensation, and place it in the "?" bucket and seek answers later?
    That is exactly what's been done. You say, "Understand that the claim is made, seek verification or confirmation later." There is nothing at all wrong with this and that's what most posters here have done.
    Yet, you start out your post with a complaint: "Why don't you take my word for it as fact?" And then you say the above, which contradicts your complaint.
    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    For the life of me, I cannot understand how a person can call themselves a scientist if they feel that they MUST draw a conclusion with inadequate data and inadequate studies.
    Exactly. And no one here is willing to draw a conclusion from your claim alone. It's perfectly possible that you feel X-rays. It's also perfectly possible that you don't.
    It's unconfirmed and for the time being, the best anyone can do is take your word for it that you are convinced you feel X-rays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    I'm not asking anyone to confirm that I feel what I feel. That is a fact, that is part of the observational data.

    I'm asking them to find a scientific explanation for the observation as longhairlover started to try to do.
    The only part it plays is that you believe you feel something.
    Dywyddyr, above, posted this: "A human cannot sense X-ray radiation! Some people can feel the presence of X-rays on their skin as a kind of "tingling sensation." What these people are feeling are charged air particles produced by the interaction of X-rays with air."

    You complained that the "So called scientists" rejected your claim. If you say that all you want is a scientific explanation- you've received one.
    There's no rule that you're supposed to be happy with it. So, stop complaining about it and attacking the people that took time to look over your question with Ad Hom attacks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    I'm asking them to find a scientific explanation for the observation as longhairlover started to try to do.
    Um, no he didn't.
    What he actually said was "however, I have better things to do than try to prove that I sense what I sense, because I am confident about my observations and I totally trust my senses, and I'm not terrified or threatened by the possibility of sensing things that the authority figures say I'm 'not supposed' to be able to feel."

    In other words "I don't care what science says, I know what I felt".
    (And, as a footnote, anyone who totally trusts their senses is a either fool or relying on being extremely lucky throughout their lives).
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    I've heard from people who have had amputations that they can actually "feel" pain in their missing limb. You don't immediately assume that what they feel is scientific evidence of a phenomena never before experienced. You look for a reasonable explanation which fits what we already know. You don't say, "Well, clearly they have superpowers or invisible nerves."

    If you have a problem with people who are critical and skeptical, avoid scientists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I've heard from people who have had amputations that they can actually "feel" pain in their missing limb.
    Nice example. Nor do we, as some posters above seem to think, assume that someone who experiences this pain is "insane". The pain is real; the limb isn't.

    Similarly with X-rays, the sensation may be real but it doesn't necessarily mean you are feeling X-rays. You may be feeling something else associated with the X-ray machine. It may be a "placebo"(*) type effect. There may be different explanations in different cases.

    (*) Avoiding the use of the word "psychological" because that would obviously mean I thought the person was mad </irony>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Nor do we, as some posters above seem to think, assume that someone who experiences this pain is "insane". The pain is real; the limb isn't.
    I 'liked' the post but want to draw attention to this bit- as it appears both of you are reading this thread, to go off topic and link to certain other threads:
    "Delusional" also does not mean 'insane' at all, and in either of these cases, feeling a limb missing or feeling the presence of a deity is not insanity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Nor do we, as some posters above seem to think, assume that someone who experiences this pain is "insane". The pain is real; the limb isn't.
    I 'liked' the post but want to draw attention to this bit- as it appears both of you are reading this thread, to go off topic and link to certain other threads:
    "Delusional" also does not mean 'insane' at all, and in either of these cases, feeling a limb missing or feeling the presence of a deity is not insanity.
    I think the problem between us is partially due to word use.

    Delusional has a very specific medical definition to me. It does not apply to believing in dogma, it applies to a medical condition. I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm betting some others out there with a medical background or a spouse who works in the medical field also consider the term to be directly related to a medical condition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Nor do we, as some posters above seem to think, assume that someone who experiences this pain is "insane". The pain is real; the limb isn't.
    I 'liked' the post but want to draw attention to this bit- as it appears both of you are reading this thread, to go off topic and link to certain other threads:
    "Delusional" also does not mean 'insane' at all, and in either of these cases, feeling a limb missing or feeling the presence of a deity is not insanity.
    I think the problem between us is partially due to word use.

    Delusional has a very specific medical definition to me. It does not apply to believing in dogma, it applies to a medical condition. I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm betting some others out there with a medical background or a spouse who works in the medical field also consider the term to be directly related to a medical condition.
    The definition I am using:

    de·lu·sion
    /diˈlo͞oZHən/
    Noun

    An idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality,...
    The action of deluding someone or the state of being deluded: "what a capacity television has for delusion".
    a belief held in the face of evidence to the contrary, that is resistant to all reason
    Synonyms
    illusion - deception - hallucination - deceit - fallacy

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/delusion
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delusion
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/delusion
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    I was referring to this quote as moving towards an answer: "You can google 'bioelectromagnetics.' That is the study of the interaction between electromagnetic fields and living tissues. There is also the microwave auditory effect, or the Frey effect: Some people can hear clicking sounds in their heads when they are working close to devices that emit radar. There is also geophysical electrophonics, defined as "The production of audible noises of various kinds through direct conversion by transduction of very low frequency electromagnetic energy generated by a number of geophysical phenomena." (Longhairlover's quote)

    I was not aware of post#8 and will go read it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    I'm not asking anyone to confirm that I feel what I feel. That is a fact, that is part of the observational data.

    I'm asking them to find a scientific explanation for the observation as longhairlover started to try to do.
    The only part it plays is that you believe you feel something.
    Dywyddyr, above, posted this: "A human cannot sense X-ray radiation! Some people can feel the presence of X-rays on their skin as a kind of "tingling sensation." What these people are feeling are charged air particles produced by the interaction of X-rays with air."

    You complained that the "So called scientists" rejected your claim. If you say that all you want is a scientific explanation- you've received one.
    There's no rule that you're supposed to be happy with it. So, stop complaining about it and attacking the people that took time to look over your question with Ad Hom attacks.
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    "What these people are feeling are charged air particles produced by the interaction of X-rays with air".
    (from your article)

    Maybe.

    If so, it goes pretty dang deep (for me). They make it sound like, possibly, it's only felt on the surface of the skin. Not true for me. I feel an unhealthy buzzing down to the core of my bones. "As if" my bones had some metal in them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    For the life of me, I cannot understand how a person can call themselves a scientist if they feel that they MUST draw a conclusion with inadequate data and inadequate studies. Why isn't it 'ok' to take the observational data, i.e. the patient's admission of some sort of sensation, and place it in the "?" bucket and seek answers later? Perhaps the legalities force the doctors to have to give a definitive conclusion even if it isn't scientifically sound.
    Yeah it's also funny how people make a claim and insist that, despite everything science knows about x-rays and human physiolog,y they're absolutely right.
    To the extent that any contray view immediately attracts such comments as "oh you're scared of the truth" or "why do you insist on this as the solution?".

    It's also funny how the same people like to join a science forum and then complain when scientific answers are given. And how they can't be bothered to Google.
    Here's a hint: Google is your friend - "A human cannot sense X-ray radiation! Some people can feel the presence of X-rays on their skin as a kind of "tingling sensation." What these people are feeling are charged air particles produced by the interaction of X-rays with air."
    http://library.thinkquest.org/J0112189/x-rays.htm

    As is checking before jumping in.

    Edit: likewise longhairlover's experience is most likely due to electrical charge in the atmosphere building up to the discharge of lightning.

    Further edit: I just noticed that the solution was actually proposed in post #8 and was subsequently ignored.
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    this is a different problem. The patient in question had a long-lasting sensation which lasted long after the x-ray. My sensation only occurs while the x-ray is directed at me and ON.
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    this is a different problem. The patient in question had a long-lasting sensation which lasted long after the x-ray.
    Simple explanation: he caught the flu and ascribed it to the x-ray.
    In short, and to be scientific about it, that guy is assigning cause and effect based on an assumption.
    The only details we have is his (selective) anecdote: do we say, okay, feeling fuzzy isn't life-threatening, nor debilitating, carry on and forget about it, from what we know it's so unlikely to be the x-ray that we can dismiss that idea or do we roll out the big guns and start a huge study (with only a single data point)?
    Now, no doubt, that little "titbit" will be filed somewhere and IF any further similar cases arise then there may be a case for putting an investigation in motion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    The definition I am using:

    de·lu·sion
    /diˈlo͞oZHən/
    Noun

    An idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality,...
    The action of deluding someone or the state of being deluded: "what a capacity television has for delusion".
    a belief held in the face of evidence to the contrary, that is resistant to all reason
    Synonyms
    illusion - deception - hallucination - deceit - fallacy

    Delusion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    Delusion | Define Delusion at Dictionary.com
    delusion - definition of delusion by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
    Understood. Just be careful comparing faith to ADHD and schizophrenia if you're not considering faith a medical condition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Understood. Just be careful comparing faith to ADHD and schizophrenia if you're not considering faith a medical condition.
    Actually, I can do that.

    You're defining Medical to mean "Clinical." It's not the same.
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    I'm considering medical to mean "related to the practice of medicine", which implies faith can be treated through medicine or surgery.

    EDIT: I just realized this isn't the thread I thought it was. Sorry for getting off topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    EDIT: I just realized this isn't the thread I thought it was. Sorry for getting off topic.
    This one's on me, actually. I'm the one that derailed it.
    If you had X-Ray vision, you'd know that.
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    It's possible that he had the flu and that it came on immediately after his x-ray, sure. There are coincidences in the world. It will be his job to find others online, should he desire, who have had the exact same response and see if there's an explanation that works better than 'the flu'. I suppose a blood test to check for a virus would rule the flu in or out next time for him. The fact that he has not had a repeatable situation (yet) makes me not really want to pay attention to his situation for now.

    So, back to my situation which is entirely different. I have had dozens of experiences with x-rays and they all consistently give me the same effect: a deep, jiggling sensation that goes to the core --- I feel it down deep as if it is the bone or bone marrow or elsewhere deep that is experiencing the jiggling. The duration of the sensation is as long as the x-ray is on. I "may" also feel it on my skin, but I'll have to pay more attention to that next time. What I have always found disconcerting is that the sensation seems to shake everything in that part of my body that is being x-rayed --- down to the bone.

    It seems that there ARE others here on this group who also are reporting THIS type of sensation, not what this other "flu" guy reported at all.

    So, I'd like to return the focus to those of us on THIS group who:
    1. only feel a sensation during the time the x-ray is x-raying
    2. feel it quite deeply or, at least, feel it on their skin --- although these may be two different types of phenomenon causing such
    3. feel that it is uncomfortable or unhealthy
    4. feels like a buzzing or jiggling
    5. have felt this over and over and over for either all of their life. Or, at some point in their life, there was a change and they have been feeling it every time since that 'shift' in their body or shift in their perception (or both).

    I'm not against reading about anyone's hypothesis provided they couch it as a hypothesis. If they have a full-blown study with that hypothesis that is a VALID scientific study, not theory, but has followed the valid scientific steps and is a published article that is under review by fellow scientists, and has a conclusion that speaks to said hypothesis, I'm all ears.

    I'd be careful to not group the patient's observations in one lump since differing sensations may actually be indicative of a different type of situation causing such. Or, realize that there may be a multi-prong answer and, therefore, a multi-prong hypothesis.

    If I barely care enough to write this email, then I doubt there are too many researchers out there willing to commit time and $$ in our direction for the "few" who seem to have these sensations. But, you never know.

    True life story: I read about this woman who, for years, was considered crazy. She was schizophrenic and was placed in an asylum. I think manic-depressive, too, but at least schizo. Took about 20 years, but someone finally had the idea to test her for mercury/amalgum poisoning. Indeed, she was off the charts. After much work to remove the mercury out of her brain and body, she became absolutely "normal".

    My anger at some of you in earlier posts is not because of "you", but it is more because the medical establishment has degraded into a bunch of morons who repeat only what was taught in school and cannot think "outside of the box" in order to resolve an issue. When they are 'stuck' in finding a physical answer, they default to a psychological cause. That's fine, but they give up way too early on the physical side of the analysis, imho. In fact, they even ignore family members who say things like "she was fine until she did 'thus and so'" and, in fact, that activity/situation has ALL or MOST of the elements to explain the acute situation from a physical perspective.

    I have a daughter who has been misdiagnosed more than a few times. For example, last spring, a neurosurgeon wanted to cut her head open because he thought that her loss of use of one leg was due to spinal deterioration (nerve damage) due to too much fluid on her spine. He insisted on putting her in surgery the next day to prevent loss of walking. This is a top surgeon who is the director and works constantly with kids at a major children's hospital and also at St. Jude's -- always in surgery for the brain. I told him, numerous times, that she could walk "fine" if I put an ace bandage around it, but that she would not tolerate the ace bandage. I told her that she had merely jumped off of some high platforms the afternoon before she woke up with the problem. The ONLY reason that I didn't take her to an orthopedic doctor 1st was because I took her to the pediatrician first ---- and the pediatrician was one of 5 doctors in that clinic and that pediatrician had never seen my daughter before and "freaked" about her major medical conditions and said "Oh, nobody is going to touch her until an MRI is done and the neurosurgeon sees her". That was in response to my same question about "why a neurosurgeon? Why not just an orthopedic doctor/surgeon?". Long story short, nobody "heard" me say that she was FINE until the morning following this jumping incident. Nobody heard me say "but if she was having loss of nerve tissue on the spine, wouldn't there be other areas of the body losing functionality as we had had prior to her 2nd brain surgery?" and nobody heard me say that she could walk "just fine" with an ace bandage on, i.e. the nerves ARE transmitting signals everywhere. Nobody really understood when she said that it just felt like a stretching sensation, not pain, but felt like her kneecap might slip out. WTF? It's egregious to cut open a kid's head for a knee problem, so why NOT just rule out the knee? No, said the neurosurgeon. No, you might wait 2 weeks and the orthopedic doctor still would not know, for sure, and you would see her lose use of the leg. No, she must go into surgery.

    I have an 'ex' who believed this idiotic approach and was pushing for the 3rd surgery. I called a different neurosurgeon, world reknown, who had seen my daughter on a fairly regular basis, too. He said, uh, if the symptoms are just in the knee, then, OF COURSE, take her to an orthopedic surgeon. THANK YOU, someone with some COMMON SENSE.

    First ortho office: no M.D.'s on staff that day. Got a P.A. He said "it was in her head" and she was "just remembering some pain that was there on a prior day".

    Not happy with that answer.

    I go to an M.D., top orthopedic surgeon, with her a couple of days later per advice of a friend who has had knee problems her entire life and has been to every ortho doc in this large city. So, that orthopedic surgeon says --- maybe something in the connective tissue and she is hyper-extending it --- she is double-jointed. Here, wear this "knee sleeve" for 2 weeks and come back. Knee sleeve = comfy ace bandage made exactly for her size with a hole over the knee. She liked it. No P.E. for 2 weeks.

    Case in point: she is fine. She wasn't having any "nerve damage" in her spine. MRI never showed this anyway.

    I have been through SO many of these situations with the medical community that it makes me sick.

    So, don't get me started on that stupid magazine article which had no research study associated with it and the patient's symptoms don't even match what the rest of us have been able to sense over and over and over, i.e. repeatable.

    Bad mood today, sorry.







    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    this is a different problem. The patient in question had a long-lasting sensation which lasted long after the x-ray.
    Simple explanation: he caught the flu and ascribed it to the x-ray.
    In short, and to be scientific about it, that guy is assigning cause and effect based on an assumption.
    The only details we have is his (selective) anecdote: do we say, okay, feeling fuzzy isn't life-threatening, nor debilitating, carry on and forget about it, from what we know it's so unlikely to be the x-ray that we can dismiss that idea or do we roll out the big guns and start a huge study (with only a single data point)?
    Now, no doubt, that little "titbit" will be filed somewhere and IF any further similar cases arise then there may be a case for putting an investigation in motion.
    Last edited by macadi63; January 19th, 2013 at 01:54 PM. Reason: spelling typo
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  93. #92  
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    Even so, what does this have to do with charged particles in the air immediately surrounding the recipient?
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    How about .... everything? Without a specific process (i.e. the scientific method), there is no science. I was referencing THIS specific process of science which was being ignored by some here and elsewhere.

    Hope that covers it.

    I suppose we can now go back and determine if the 'charged particles' idea is merely a hypothesis that could be considered given the sensations reported by THIS group (not the sensations reported by some other group that is mentioned in some article somewhere), or if it is a conclusion drawn from a double-blind study where the subjects have the same sensations as we, or should I say "I", do, e.g. a very deeply felt super-fast jiggling feeling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Even so, what does this have to do with charged particles in the air immediately surrounding the recipient?
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  95. #94 Melanin radioprotection 
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    "A recent article in the journal Bioelectrochemistry (Bioelectrochemistry 82 (2011) 69-73) relates how the researchers established that ionizing radiation interacts with melanin to alter its oxidation-reduction potential, resulting in electric current production."

    Read more at: Melanin's 'trick' for maintaining radioprotection studied from post#7 above.

    My sensation is more like a feeling of being electrocuted deep down, not the skin level feeling of static that some people here are getting. So, post #7 has some info that could speak to my personal sensations.

    For those who only feel a reaction on top of the skin, they might be more interested in reading up on the static info.
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  96. #95  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    Why doesn't someone restart the thread, list all of the so far mentioned symptoms, cut the arguments on what is or isn't supernatural about it and just look at how it works and what's involved? What might make this happen? What creative, but scientifically scrutinized conclusion can be reached, without getting so personal about everything? Yikes!!

    These kinds of threads are so.... boring. It's like running in circles... with a treat dangling in front of your face.

    Scientists need to learn how to communicate.

    What is an x-ray?
    How does it pass through the body?
    Can the electromagnetic spectrum be picked up by just any sensory organ in the body?
    What organs, or cells, can perceive this information?
    What effects might x-rays cause to the areas they focus on which might lead to other sensations?
    What sorts of other emissions come from x-ray machines (heat, wind, pressure, etc.)?
    Could these emissions cause the perceived sensations in any way?
    What about sounds or vibrations?
    What sort of effects could make someone susceptible to a false sensation?

    I've certainly had this experience myself. I couldn't think of a concrete answer to explain why though. If I point something sharp very close to my forehead between my eyes I perceive feeling that, and I can repeat the experiment, but I am not really touching my skin or hair. Could these perceived sensations be of the same sort? What causes these sensations?

    What can we do to test any reasonable theories?

    See, this is easy. No crying, no blaming, no judging. Just science. Simple.
    macadi63 and longhairlover like this.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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    Yes, and move it to a different section. Not the "Pseudoscience" section which seems to attract those who simply come here to talk down their nose. To my way of thinking, this is simply an untested, unproven phenomenon which occurs infrequently due to, possibly, different body compositions, but far off the track of paranormal.

    Before we understood why people could sense lightning before it struck the ground, we had people saying "Hey, my hair stands on end right before a lightning strike. What's that about?" And, that was a very difficult experiment to repeat, but, indeed, we found out that the entire process of a lightning strike starts from the ground and goes up before the electricity comes down.

    Maybe there is a section called 'Seeking Scientific Explanations' or something like that. It sure would be nice to handle this in a respectful manner and give it due process.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Why doesn't someone restart the thread, list all of the so far mentioned symptoms, cut the arguments on what is or isn't supernatural about it and just look at how it works and what's involved? What might make this happen? What creative, but scientifically scrutinized conclusion can be reached, without getting so personal about everything? Yikes!!

    These kinds of threads are so.... boring. It's like running in circles... with a treat dangling in front of your face.

    Scientists need to learn how to communicate.

    What is an x-ray?
    How does it pass through the body?
    Can the electromagnetic spectrum be picked up by just any sensory organ in the body?
    What organs, or cells, can perceive this information?
    What effects might x-rays cause to the areas they focus on which might lead to other sensations?
    What sorts of other emissions come from x-ray machines (heat, wind, pressure, etc.)?
    Could these emissions cause the perceived sensations in any way?
    What about sounds or vibrations?
    What sort of effects could make someone susceptible to a false sensation?

    I've certainly had this experience myself. I couldn't think of a concrete answer to explain why though. If I point something sharp very close to my forehead between my eyes I perceive feeling that, and I can repeat the experiment, but I am not really touching my skin or hair. Could these perceived sensations be of the same sort? What causes these sensations?

    What can we do to test any reasonable theories?

    See, this is easy. No crying, no blaming, no judging. Just science. Simple.
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  98. #97  
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    To my way of thinking, this is simply an untested, unproven phenomenon which occurs infrequently due to, possibly, different body compositions, but far off the track of paranormal.

    Before we understood why people could sense lightning before it struck the ground, we had people saying "Hey, my hair stands on end right before a lightning strike. What's that about?" And, that was a very difficult experiment to repeat, but, indeed, we found out that the entire process of a lightning strike starts from the ground and goes up before the electricity comes down.

    Maybe there is a section called 'Seeking Scientific Explanations' or something like that. It sure would be nice to handle this in a respectful manner and give it due process.
    I agree. You made some comments earlier in the thread that were questionable... But that is probably due to frustration you felt.

    This post of yours is perfect.
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  99. #98  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    Yes, and move it to a different section. Not the "Pseudoscience" section which seems to attract those who simply come here to talk down their nose. To my way of thinking, this is simply an untested, unproven phenomenon which occurs infrequently due to, possibly, different body compositions, but far off the track of paranormal.

    Before we understood why people could sense lightning before it struck the ground, we had people saying "Hey, my hair stands on end right before a lightning strike. What's that about?" And, that was a very difficult experiment to repeat, but, indeed, we found out that the entire process of a lightning strike starts from the ground and goes up before the electricity comes down.

    Maybe there is a section called 'Seeking Scientific Explanations' or something like that. It sure would be nice to handle this in a respectful manner and give it due process.
    I agree with one proviso, and here I'm deliberately gonna play the bad guy: it's not just "the scientists" that should have an open mind about the results, there's also a large element (not claiming it will or has happened here [although longhairlover's post got close]) of "I know what I felt and you can't tell me I didn't", it may well turn that an investigation (if it ever eventuates) shows that there is no actual effect, other than the previously-mentioned ionisation, and that any other "effects" are purely psychological.
    People have a tendency to A) think "psychological effects" implies there's something wrong with you (untrue) and B) if I feel it it MUST be "real" (also untrue).
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  100. #99  
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadi63 View Post
    Yes, and move it to a different section. Not the "Pseudoscience" section which seems to attract those who simply come here to talk down their nose.
    I think you have a point. I couldn't tell who moved it to pseudo or why. There is nothing necessarily pseudoscientific about reporting an observation and asking for an explanation.
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  101. #100  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    I agree with one proviso, and here I'm deliberately gonna play the bad guy: it's not just "the scientists" that should have an open mind about the results
    Pet peeve of mine. I loathe when people tell me I should have an open mind as they slather me with absurdities. As scientists and researchers we HAVE to have an open mind in order to be successful. It is in our nature to entertain without accepting almost every rational new idea.

    Some ideas are simply entertained for a much shorter period of time.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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