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Thread: Self Evolution?

  1. #1 Self Evolution? 
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    Since we started civilization, and began killing each other, we've started evolving with an increased amount of self selection. I was just wondering and it seems since you can manipulate other species like dogs and birds for example, we ought to be under the same rules. We definitely do a lot more of the selecting since we started, especially in wars, religious wars to more exact.

    Lets say basically that the crazies finally killed off all the sane genes by us killing them off, we guaranteed that people who follow our rules and believe what we believe will get to pass on their genes, and I would say that most of those genes were of people who gradually, over time, became more insane and increased ability to have faith. In doing that, we also have had people who if they couldn't believe but they could make people think they do, we have made liars and many other forms that would get through the cracks.

    We've selected ourselves by killing off the others, and everybody thinks they are right, just a matter of who has more power and strength and the willingness of doing harm. With enough time of one religion or any power hold as in government or tribe leaders, that kill off people or at least banish them if they do not abide by their will, you can evolve beings that become slaves, non intelligent, crazy, blood thirsty(due to wars and popular public executions), liars, ect.. perhaps that is what the goal is of any government, to evolve us into more proper slaves.

    We should be protecting our future selves, what we can evolve into.

    Possible?


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  3. #2  
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    i stopped reading when you said we stopped evolving. either edit your post or post a reply with revisions, or else i doubt many other educated people will respond.


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  4. #3  
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    I am sure that some self selection occurs. What, for example, is the result of all the religious persecutions down the ages? What if a large fraction of the rational, non believing people were rounded up and executed over many generations? Does that result in an evolutionary process that makes humans less rational?
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  5. #4 Re: Self Evolution? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by AriFeannor
    I cant say we stopped evolving. But we definitely do a lot more of the selecting since we started, especially in wars, religious wars to more exact.
    I agree with you that there is a degree of self selection going on. However:

    1. That there is self selection going on means that we are evolving. Your two statements are contradictory and this suggests to me you have very little idea of what evolution is and how it works.

    2. The characteristics you speak of as being selected for could be cultural and not genetic. You have completely ignored this point. This suggests to me you have very little idea of what evolution is and how it works.
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  6. #5 Re: Self Evolution? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by AriFeannor
    Lets say basically that the crazies finally killed off all the sane genes by us killing them off, we guaranteed that people who follow our rules and believe what we believe will get to pass on their genes, and I would say that most of those genes were of people who gradually, over time, became more insane and increased ability to have faith.
    Like the rest said, I wouldn't think it's implausible, but it isn't very likely.
    The most of that I've heard of about genes influencing behavior is aggressiveness/happiness from chemical/hormonal imbalances in the brain.

    Besides if you're sticking to Darwinian evolution, you'd most certainly need either an isolating mechanism or a selection pressure. To say that the selection pressure is a war might be plausible, but it ventures off into the theory of genetic drift instead: Who is to know whether an insane person has the potential to tell apart a sane person and another one of his own? Clashes in war lead to casualties on both sides anyway.

    Well, if we were to follow your supposed less-natural-of-selection and more-of-genetic-drift theory, we'd need a pretty spectacular event that would cause either a Bottleneck or Flounder effect, where then the remaining survivors happen to be the insane dudes. They can then breed like rabbits for all they like, overbreed, constancy of numbers, struggle for survival, reproduce... or just kill each other off.
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    When I saw the title of the this thread I thought it would be about cancer.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  8. #7  
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    It's not really about genes influencing but maybe we indirectly make the better environment for one to come about.
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  9. #8 Re: Self Evolution? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by AriFeannor
    I cant say we stopped evolving. But we definitely do a lot more of the selecting since we started, especially in wars, religious wars to more exact.
    I agree with you that there is a degree of self selection going on. However:

    1. That there is self selection going on means that we are evolving. Your two statements are contradictory and this suggests to me you have very little idea of what evolution is and how it works.

    I think a better way for him to have described the problem would be to say that we are increasingly able to shape our own environment, and... since the environment is what selects our genes, that means we're indirectly selecting our own genes.

    If the environment is what selects, and you have no control over that environment whatsoever, then that means there is a constant flow of new information entering your system from the outside, and shaping your species.

    On the other hand, If the environment is what selects, and you have total control over it, then that would create a kind of internal feedback effect, where all of the information flowing into the system is simply an echo of the information that is being sent out from it. One might expect the forces of entropy to start to degrade that information over time. If the choices aren't being made by the environment anymore, then there's no reason to think that the changes that result are going to make us better adapted.




    2. The characteristics you speak of as being selected for could be cultural and not genetic. You have completely ignored this point. This suggests to me you have very little idea of what evolution is and how it works.
    That is a good point, but cultural selection follows the same basic rules as genetic evolution doesn't it? Bad ideas die off. Good ideas survive.
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  10. #9  
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    Wouldn't those be meme's?
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  11. #10  
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    I'm pretty sure humans started killing each other long before civilization or religion, given that wars occur among chimpanzees and other animals as well. Your rant is not very objective. One could just as well define "crazy" as failing to defend oneself or one's tribe against a more aggressive person or tribe. What makes you think aggressive or "bloodthirsty" people are non intelligent?
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    What makes you think aggressive or "bloodthirsty" people are non intelligent?
    I guess it depends whether we're talking the modern world or the old world. In the modern world, aggressive or bloodthirsty people are clearly ignorant of the dangers of nuclear war, or they'd focus their efforts more on diplomacy and less on trying to make everything into a big confrontational showdown.

    In the old world, I think we'd draw the intelligent/non-intelligent line at scorched Earth combat. Anyone dumb enough to go around sowing salt in their enemies fields is going to get salt sown back in their own fields, and then nobody is able to grow any crops.


    Quote Originally Posted by AriFeannor
    Wouldn't those be meme's?
    Yeah. That's the concept I was thinking of.
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  13. #12  
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    Hey! You made me think of a great idea. A new branch of sociology, dealing with ways to channel evolution... I think I'll call it eugenics.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    Hey! You made me think of a great idea. A new branch of sociology, dealing with ways to channel evolution... I think I'll call it eugenics.
    Yes, and we could call the new enlightened, peace-loving strain of humans "ubermenschen." I'm not sure how we would weed out the untermenschen in a peaceful manner, though.
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