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Thread: Why do People Laugh at Creationists? (Posted with Consent)

  1. #1 Why do People Laugh at Creationists? (Posted with Consent) 
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    These videos are copyright free and the person behind them encouraged me to share their content with as many people as possible.


    Thunderfoot's Why Do People Laugh at Creationists? Videos:

    Part 1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY

    Part 2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=istxUVBZD2s

    Part 3- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdEZT...eature=channel

    Part 4- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjFeV...eature=channel

    Part 5- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09hOe...eature=related

    Part 6- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKdfeP1sGIg

    Part 7- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6_o1...eature=channel

    Part 8- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3nvH...eature=channel

    Part 9- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzDYV...eature=channel

    Part 10- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aGEX...eature=channel

    Part 11- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttnU8...eature=channel

    Part 12- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw80o...eature=channel

    Part 13- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPMwD...eature=channel

    Part 14- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z55oW...eature=related

    Part 15- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sui4C...eature=related

    Part 16- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loPHY...eature=channel

    Part 17- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWdvu...eature=related

    Part 18- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXUtH...eature=channel

    Part 19- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUGJ...eature=related

    Part 20- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inES_...eature=channel

    Part 21- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnC7N...eature=channel

    Part 22- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNGK...eature=channel

    Part 23- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X8ai...eature=channel

    Part 24- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihYq2...eature=channel

    Part 25- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxtbc...eature=channel

    Part 26- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntEE9...eature=channel

    Part 27- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0pjF...eature=related

    Part 28- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDUkd...eature=channel

    Part 29- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyd6o...eature=channel

    Part 30- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpL1d...eature=channel

    Part 31- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqB4F...eature=channel

    Part 32- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tysZO...eature=channel


    Cogito Ergo Sum likes this.
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  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator TheBiologista's Avatar
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    I do like Thunderfoot. Your links all seem to go to his profile page though?


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBiologista
    I do like Thunderfoot. Your links all seem to go to his profile page though?
    The links are valid but I can't get the last parts of the links underlined. Can you fix it for me?
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  5. #4 Re: Why do People Laugh at Creationists? (Posted with Consen 
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBiologista
    I do like Thunderfoot. Your links all seem to go to his profile page though?
    The links are valid but I can't get the last parts of the links underlined. Can you fix it for me?
    Change the links to the format Twit used there and that should do it. There's no need to include the user's profile page in the link.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Professor Zwirko's Avatar
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    For fans of the "Why do people laugh..." series, I'd also recommend the "Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism" series by the super-fast-talking AaronRa.




    (fixed a typo)
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    IMO, creationists are laughed at because they believed they had obvious answers and so they never needed to define those answers in terms of science, or to redefine them as science advanced. Thus, over the centuries, they have remained cloistered in their religious world as science steadily grew distant. Now, suddenly realizing they are the hare and science is the tortoise, creationists have pounced upon scientific data, done lots of cherry-picking, and come up with very amateurish “scientific” explanations to support their beliefs. This backwards process, in itself, is unscientific. As it stands, creationism is to science as alchemy is to chemistry.
    Grief is the price we pay for love. (CM Parkes) Our postillion has been struck by lightning. (Unknown) War is always the choice of the chosen who will not have to fight. (Bono) The years tell much what the days never knew. (RW Emerson) Reality is not always probable, or likely. (JL Borges)
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  9. #8  
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    Sorry, I keep forgetting to fix the links!!! I'll try to get it done within a few days...
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    Links fixed. :wink:
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    Links fixed. :wink:
    Thanks!
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  12. #11  
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    I wouldn't mind seeing this as a sticky thread, anyone else agree?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    I wouldn't mind seeing this as a sticky thread, anyone else agree?
    Done. I'll keep it there as long as it is popular.
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    I think one fundamental apect of this belief is commonly overlooked.

    Creation, Big Bang, Alien Astronaut...whatever you want to believe, there is a commonality. ALL of these require a measure of belief based on existing evidence...or "faith". If you believe the science to be the accurate evidence, great...but you are still believing things yet unproven. If you believe in Creation, great...you are believing in things unproven. Alien Astronauts...my 7th grade students laugh initially, until I show them "evidence"...and some people out there believe it.

    I teach my kids (here in the US "Bible-Belt") that they are free to believe what they want, and that their beliefs will invariably rely on some measure of "faith". I do this to encourage them to think freely...and quite honestly...to avoid the angry parent emails for exposing their Christian children to scientific evidence.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    If you believe the science to be the accurate evidence, great...but you are still believing things yet unproven.
    And you're a teacher? The basis of science isn't faith as is creationism. Science seeks to provide empirical, verifiable, and consistent evidence of its results through universal methods of logic and reason; whereas, creationism seeks to contrive evidence from five thousand year old fairytales. Results or beliefs approached by faith, do not require evidence as proof; whereas, science demands proof to be believed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrmDoc
    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    If you believe the science to be the accurate evidence, great...but you are still believing things yet unproven.
    And you're a teacher? The basis of science isn't faith as is creationism. Science seeks to provide empirical, verifiable, and consistent evidence of its results through universal methods of logic and reason; whereas, creationism seeks to contrive evidence from five thousand year fairytales. Results or beliefs approached by faith, do not require evidence as proof; whereas, science demands proof to be believed.
    Yes, I am a teacher...one that encourages students to think, instead of mindlessly spouting off from a textbook. At the end of the day, you choose what to believe. I agree with you...science is the truth, because I believe it is.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." *Einstein
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    I think one fundamental apect of this belief is commonly overlooked.

    Creation, Big Bang, Alien Astronaut...whatever you want to believe, there is a commonality. ALL of these require a measure of belief based on existing evidence...or "faith". If you believe the science to be the accurate evidence, great...but you are still believing things yet unproven. If you believe in Creation, great...you are believing in things unproven. Alien Astronauts...my 7th grade students laugh initially, until I show them "evidence"...and some people out there believe it.

    I teach my kids (here in the US "Bible-Belt") that they are free to believe what they want, and that their beliefs will invariably rely on some measure of "faith". I do this to encourage them to think freely...and quite honestly...to avoid the angry parent emails for exposing their Christian children to scientific evidence.
    PLEASE don't plant seeds of ignorance in already brainwashed Bible-belt kids. By showing them "evidence" for alien astronauts?!.. and then telling them the evidence is faulty you are leading them to believe that scientists knowingly falsify data. No wonder so many people don't "believe in" science. I say "believe in" because it's not a faith-based enterprise; it's a fact based enterprise. If you don't have "faith" in empirical evidence feel free to defy the laws of gravity and jump off of a cliff...
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    You are arriving at a grand conclusion based on what little I told you. The word "faith" means "belief in". I have faith in science...I have no faith in a diety...I have faith that my dog likes me. I have evidence to support the first and last, and no evidence to suggest that I reverse my position in the middle. I deeply appologize for showing kids that the world is bigger than they are, and that they may someday encounter a person with whom they disagree. This is important, because that scenario will be an opportunity for them to learn something. See the connection yet?
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." *Einstein
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    Kids should already know by the seventh grade that the world is bigger than they are. Of course they'll come into contact with people they disagree with..they'll also come into contact with people who will attempt to force their worldviews onto them. What they need to learn is how to differenciate between fact and fiction and many people unfortunately equate their worldview/religion with undeniable fact. That's ok until it conflicts with or ouright impedes scientific progress.
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    Unfortunately, the English language (or the ignorance about Latin language which is understandably common among some groups of English speakers) fails to convey a fundamental difference between science and the idea of faith. Science is about things we know, not things we believe.

    We do not believe there was a Big Bang, we actually know there is one because we have direct proof of that. Theists believe in God; none of them has actually seen him, nor have they seen any direct proof of his existence, but they still believe him to exist. This is not condemnable if you ask me, and everyone is free to believe whatever they want -- but it is not of the same kind as scientific knowledge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    Kids should already know by the seventh grade that the world is bigger than they are. Of course they'll come into contact with people they disagree with..they'll also come into contact with people who will attempt to force their worldviews onto them. What they need to learn is how to differenciate between fact and fiction and many people unfortunately equate their worldview/religion with undeniable fact. That's ok until it conflicts with or ouright impedes scientific progress.
    Developmentally, kids at the age of 12 are still egocentric, and just starting to recognize parts of the big picture. It's at this critical age that they need to be introduced to fact and fiction, so they can rationally analyze each.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexandruLazar
    Unfortunately, the English language (or the ignorance about Latin language which is understandably common among some groups of English speakers) fails to convey a fundamental difference between science and the idea of faith. Science is about things we know, not things we believe.

    We do not believe there was a Big Bang, we actually know there is one because we have direct proof of that. Theists believe in God; none of them has actually seen him, nor have they seen any direct proof of his existence, but they still believe him to exist. This is not condemnable if you ask me, and everyone is free to believe whatever they want -- but it is not of the same kind as scientific knowledge.
    We do not have "direct proof"...we have a large amount of scientific evidence. Cosmologists themselves will admit that science rarely "proves" anything. Just like back when the Earth was flat...and that was correct for the evidence they had.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    Yes, I am a teacher...one that encourages students to think, instead of mindlessly spouting off from a textbook. At the end of the day, you choose what to believe. I agree with you...science is the truth, because I believe it is.
    Though you may be a supporter of science, you seem to be under (IMO) the mistaken impression of some equity between "belief" in science and "belief" in nonsense by virtue of the singular term "faith." This position is analogous to the perception of equity between belief in a suspect's innocence because he said so and belief in his innocence because the evidence supports that conclusion; i.e., belief, or faith, doesn't confer equity. Allowing a child to chose what to believe without suggestion of reasoning or solid evidence, because of some immutable right of belief, will most certainly leave our future to ignorance. As a teacher, isn't it incumbent upon you to make the suggestion of reasoning and solid evidence in the thought processes of your students?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexandruLazar
    (or the ignorance about Latin language which is understandably common among some groups of English speakers)
    How would speaking latin make this any different?
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrmDoc
    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    Yes, I am a teacher...one that encourages students to think, instead of mindlessly spouting off from a textbook. At the end of the day, you choose what to believe. I agree with you...science is the truth, because I believe it is.
    Though you may be a supporter of science, you seem to be under (IMO) the mistaken impression of some equity between "belief" in science and "belief" in nonsense by virtue of the singular term "faith." This position is analogous to the perception of equity between belief in a suspect's innocence because he said so and belief in his innocence because the evidence supports that conclusion; i.e., belief, or faith, doesn't confer equity. Allowing a child to chose what to believe without suggestion of reasoning or solid evidence, because of some immutable right of belief, will most certainly leave our future to ignorance. As a teacher, isn't it incumbent upon you to make the suggestion of reasoning and solid evidence in the thought processes of your students?
    Yes, it is my duty to foster critical thinking, and that leads directly to the point of why I teach this way. I'm sure you understand, that when I ask a question like, "How was the universe formed?", I always get a number of students say, "God made it"...hell, I get that written into tests! To get them to see why they reached this conclusion, I have to acknowledge their conclusion with what they've been told. I have to be very careful to avoid even the hint of condemnation of the Christian religion...and it wouldn't be fair to do that to a "captive audience". Unfortunately, this is primarily to prevent getting fired...seriously. You deny "God" in a Texas public school, and the Sunday-Morning-Army will pressure the school board into finding reasons for you to get the axe. The second reason I do this, is because you can fully engage a student much more easily by purposely not being dismissive of what you and I know is nonsense. With the door open, we can then get some REAL scientific evidence in their heads. Let me be clear; for me personally, there is no equity between fairy tails and science. By showing the students that they need to base their decisions on sound evidence, I can then start to teach them science...or what you and I know to be the truth. It's sad, but I have to elevate self-preservation above actually teaching at times.

    As a side note, I read my earlier posts...I sounded a bit rude, and I appologize. We're in the middle of finals, and I released a little "steam" onto my keyboard. Not a justification...I was a bit put off by your initial response, because I didn't fully understand why you were taken aback. I more clearly understand your point now, and would probably have reacted the same way. Again, my appologies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twit of wit
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexandruLazar
    (or the ignorance about Latin language which is understandably common among some groups of English speakers)
    How would speaking latin make this any different?
    I hope you're not suggesting Latin is irrelevant to science...I'm phrasing it this way to give you an exit strategy.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." *Einstein
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    Thanks! An excellent selection of educational videos.
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    I finally got those videos open...and I actually feel sorry for the pointy-chinned kid...who is that dolt?
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." *Einstein
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    Thanks Lunchbox. I understand where you're coming from..I hope people will see the light in the near future. It sickens me that genuine scientists are forced to "debate" (attempt to banish ignorance spread by half-educated Jerry Falwell worshippers) the fact of evolution in modern times. I'm sorry that the school won't even let you have your say...in your case, apparently, Schweigen ist Pflicht! If I were you, I'd take the "science describes the how, not the why" route and explain that evolutionary theory and religion don't necessarily conflict. Stephen Jay Gould refers to science and religion as "non-overlapping magisteria".
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    Thanks Lunchbox. I understand where you're coming from..I hope people will see the light in the near future. It sickens me that genuine scientists are forced to "debate" (attempt to banish ignorance spread by half-educated Jerry Falwell worshippers) the fact of evolution in modern times. I'm sorry that the school won't even let you have your say...in your case, apparently, Schweigen ist Pflicht! If I were you, I'd take the "science describes the how, not the why" route and explain that evolutionary theory and religion don't necessarily conflict. Stephen Jay Gould refers to science and religion as "non-overlapping magisteria".
    ...and that's about how we get by the issue, lol.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." *Einstein
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    Thanks Lunchbox. I understand where you're coming from..I hope people will see the light in the near future. It sickens me that genuine scientists are forced to "debate" (attempt to banish ignorance spread by half-educated Jerry Falwell worshippers) the fact of evolution in modern times. I'm sorry that the school won't even let you have your say...in your case, apparently, Schweigen ist Pflicht! If I were you, I'd take the "science describes the how, not the why" route and explain that evolutionary theory and religion don't necessarily conflict. Stephen Jay Gould refers to science and religion as "non-overlapping magisteria".
    ...and that's about how we get by the issue, lol.
    ...and, now I'm in trouble with the wife. I am an atheist, she is a Christian. We want our son to go to a private school, as not to be subjected to the infectious stupidity of the masses...and we both agree that the moral principles outlined in the Christian religion are mostly sound. Then I asked her, a private Christian school alum...what would be taught in science classes.

    I wasn't going to post this, but I thnk it does speak directly to the OP...gottspieler or mods...feel free to correct me.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." *Einstein
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    Your post is kind of vague..I'm not sure what your point is...are you saying that Creationism will be taught at the private school?


    The following is not an insult; rather a personal revelation:

    Something you wrote hit me like a ton of bricks... your use of the phrase "idiot masses".... I've used similar phraseology in the past and reading it coming from the mind of someone else led me to realize just how cold-hearted and immature it sounds..I will no longer categorize people as such....many of my family members would be hurt by the comment as most are grade school teachers and accountants who haven't taken a Bio course since high school...from now on I think I'll simply refer to them as "those lacking a scientific background". It's not fair to insult people for lacking an education in a specific subject area they have no interest in. It's like the time a lady at the grocery store I used to work at asked me the name of the local mayor and I told her I had no clue and she retorted, "why don't you go read a newspaper?". I felt dejected and angry and would no longer converse with her. I don't want to be that kind of person. I don't want to insult a person's intelligence and thereby end communication and potentially a friendship which I could use as an avenue to lead them to the truth.
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    I see what you mean, which is in some way a bolster to my claim that non-condemnation opens doors. When I say "the (infectious stupidity of the) idiot masses", I am unfortunately categorizing, and stereotyping a lot of what I see in a rural school district. I'm not sure which is the greater infraction...me seeing them as such, or the trend I see. That will stray too far off topic though.

    To your question, scientific principles will be taught to a degree, but dismissed when "Biblical teachings" contradict the science. I have a problem with this, but can handle it at home.

    To round this out, I don't know that I want my child subjected to kids that fail classes with no consequences...kids that have zero respect for 'authority'...kids that are allowed to talk back, or be disrespectful at home, etc. These people exist in the real world, but let's face it...the kids that succeed in college end up rising above these...the ones I refer to, perhaps childishly, as the "idiot masses". Your personal revelation is what these conversations in trueh are all about. Maybe some day I will rise above my own observational assumptions.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." *Einstein
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexandruLazar
    Unfortunately, the English language (or the ignorance about Latin language which is understandably common among some groups of English speakers) fails to convey a fundamental difference between science and the idea of faith. Science is about things we know, not things we believe.
    Except we refuse to arrive at any conclusions with certainty. (Because there's always a non-zero chance of being wrong.)

    Christians, on the other hand, conclude everything with certainty. If they're not sure about something, then they convince themselves they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    Thanks Lunchbox. I understand where you're coming from..I hope people will see the light in the near future. It sickens me that genuine scientists are forced to "debate" (attempt to banish ignorance spread by half-educated Jerry Falwell worshippers) the fact of evolution in modern times. I'm sorry that the school won't even let you have your say...in your case, apparently, Schweigen ist Pflicht! If I were you, I'd take the "science describes the how, not the why" route and explain that evolutionary theory and religion don't necessarily conflict. Stephen Jay Gould refers to science and religion as "non-overlapping magisteria".
    ...and that's about how we get by the issue, lol.
    ...and, now I'm in trouble with the wife. I am an atheist, she is a Christian. We want our son to go to a private school, as not to be subjected to the infectious stupidity of the masses...and we both agree that the moral principles outlined in the Christian religion are mostly sound. Then I asked her, a private Christian school alum...what would be taught in science classes.

    I wasn't going to post this, but I thnk it does speak directly to the OP...gottspieler or mods...feel free to correct me.
    I went to a Christian school (and became an atheist there), the Bible teachers like to spout creationism (even the more liberal ones who avoid creationism like to spout nonsense like this: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE010.html to encourage the kids interested in science, I can`t really blame them, they honestly think this will bolster the faith of the kids). The science teachers were much better, where I come from they are required to teach evolution, and they do it well, but I bet it`s a bit different in the Bible belt.

    But as a teacher I bet you can help your kids to understand evolution even if they botch it at school. Honestly I think your wife should be the one worried about sending your kids to a Christian school, it will only help them to see through creationsim and make them hostile to Christianity as a result, in a public school they`ll leave the creationism issue alone and your kids will probably end up theistic evolutionists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    I finally got those videos open...and I actually feel sorry for the pointy-chinned kid...who is that dolt?
    VenomFangX? He`s off youtube for personal reasons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golkarian
    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    I finally got those videos open...and I actually feel sorry for the pointy-chinned kid...who is that dolt?
    VenomFangX? He`s off youtube for personal reasons.
    Yeah...thanks to the OP, I've logged about 10 hours on youtube now, watching every one of thunderf00t's WPLC vids, and a bunch others...I got the whole story (lol) there on youtube...that's a scary statement.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

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    Show these vids to your class Lunchbox. See how the parents like it.
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    If people are interested in extremely thorough debunking of other creationist-like-ideologues, then videos made by C0nc0rdance is most definitely recommended. He touches upon topics like AIDS-denialism, alternative 'medicine' and otherwise pseudoscience in general.
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    Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    Show these vids to your class Lunchbox. See how the parents like it.
    LOL...I was thinking the same thing...wish I could. And, while watching the Tf00t-vs-Ray Comfort (burned another 2 hours there) I heard Ray Comfort say something along the lines of "You put your faith in science, I put mine in God". That's nearly what I said...and I threw up in my mouth a little. I need to rethink how I approach this.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." *Einstein
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    I completely understand your situation and empathize. It's tough living in a country where over half of the population doesn't accept the fact of evolution (although my username is German, I'm an American from West Virginia..lol). I see the situation getting even worse as Republicans will perhaps take the next election.
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    We may be neighbors in a couple of years...the wife and I are moving to the Athens, OH (SE) area after the 2011/12 school year.

    As for the Republican thing...that is part of why I left them a few years ago...I find BOTH sides equally repellent now.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

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    I live in North Carolina right now. When I said I'm from WV, I meant I was born there.
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    Anyone get into a good argument with a creationist lately?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    Anyone get into a good argument with a creationist lately?
    I'm not sure there is any such thing as a "good argument" with a creationist. It's usually one person speaking about reality, supporting their position with evidence and reason, and another being a pretentious paste eater who doesn't understand basic logic and how to avoid fallacies.
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    Yea that's what I meant. Every argument is good when you know you're right.
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    Not an argument...but I had to stop, and redirect a conversation with my mother in law the other day over lunch, when she insisted dinosaurs were doomed when Noah wouldn't let them on the ark.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." *Einstein
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    Had to listen to a friend's wife, mother and sister prattle on about how wrong evolution is while we were waiting for her to be taken to get a c-section. You know, the slapping each other's backs in ignorant agreement kind of talk. If you have no idea what you are talking about and you know it, why keep talking nonsense and throwing around wild, baseless ideas you have just invented until you have convinced yourself of the truth of your pre-existing stance, which was built on the say-so of others who often know even less than you do? Why are people happy to talk themselves into things they aren't sure about without attempting even the slightest shred of emotional and/or intellectual honesty? What does that say about that person? Are they cowards?

    It is tough sometimes to keep humble when one is surrounded by such overwhelming levels of ignorance, groundless surety, self-serving dishonesty and emotional/intellectual dishonesty. :|
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Those conversations are prevalent in the southern U.S. (where I live). Sometimes in places you wouldn't expect. I've taken a few classes with nursing students and spoken with doctors at the local hospital. Some doctors don't "believe in" evolution!!! What really irks me is not the ignorance of laymen but that of doctors and nurses who should know better. Especially the surgical techs and RNs. I respect these people for devoting their lives to helping others but I often get the impression that many of them simply memorize vocabulary and procedures without entirely understanding how biology works. If you don't understand evolution you can't understand why we are what we are and where we come from. And if you don't understand that, you could miss out on potential treatment options for certain patients.
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  49. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    Not an argument...but I had to stop, and redirect a conversation with my mother in law the other day over lunch, when she insisted dinosaurs were doomed when Noah wouldn't let them on the ark.
    Pretty sure even creationists would disagree with that one. The bible says all animals were saved...
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    Say, how widespread is creationism where you live?

    I am lucky to live in Sweden, where not even the priests preach creationism. At least none I've heard in the question, instead they see the bible as symbolic and accept evolution.

    I think less than 1/100 are creationist in the parts of Sweden I frequent (Stockholm and Lund). What are your estimates of where you live?

    To be honest, I've never met anyone who have claimed to be creationist. (But then, I know very few religious people.)
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    It's hard to say. There is an evangelical minority to consider (I've read they comprise perhaps 10% of the population) and then there are a lot of people who are unsure about where they stand because they aren't interested in science and then there are those who are non-religious but afraid to say so in public.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBiologista
    Quote Originally Posted by LunchBox
    Not an argument...but I had to stop, and redirect a conversation with my mother in law the other day over lunch, when she insisted dinosaurs were doomed when Noah wouldn't let them on the ark.
    Pretty sure even creationists would disagree with that one. The bible says all animals were saved...
    Notice the term "mother in law"...so...there's an understood level of insanity that comes standard. It doesn't matter. She would be the poorest example of a practicing Christian anyhow.
    "Let your anger be as a monkey in a pinata, hiding with the candy, hoping the children do not break through with a stick."

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." *Einstein
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    My mom is coming to visit tomorrow. I'm thinking of sharing with her my knowledge of evolution. The story of man from prosimian to australopithecine is my favorite part...I love evolution and talking about evolution but I don't know how it will go down (if it does at all..I suppose it will come out someday anyway though..I'm always bursting at the seams to discuss the issue). I know she will not be mad at me but she may say something like "well, you know what the Bible says about creation" or something. It tears me up inside that there has to be this divide. I wish people could just accept the truth and get along. Nobody ever said that accepting evolution = denying the existence of God, yet many people assume it. Hell, I used to assume it. Sometimes I still struggle with the whole religion thing. But, I've learned it only makes me human, not evil.
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  54. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    My mom is coming to visit tomorrow. I'm thinking of sharing with her my knowledge of evolution. The story of man from prosimian to australopithecine is my favorite part...I love evolution and talking about evolution but I don't know how it will go down (if it does at all..I suppose it will come out someday anyway though..I'm always bursting at the seams to discuss the issue). I know she will not be mad at me but she may say something like "well, you know what the Bible says about creation" or something. It tears me up inside that there has to be this divide. I wish people could just accept the truth and get along. Nobody ever said that accepting evolution = denying the existence of God, yet many people assume it. Hell, I used to assume it. Sometimes I still struggle with the whole religion thing. But, I've learned it only makes me human, not evil.
    IIRC, the bible also says the world has corners and that the entirety of it can be seen from a sufficiently tall mountain. In the face of empirical evidence, most Christians downgrade these and similar assertions to being symbolic rather than literal. Creation as literal has been falsified by the evidence, but that still allows a symbolic interpretation.

    Problem is, it's a slippery slope. If it's all open to infinite re-interpretation subject to science then it is science and not the bible that has the power, and the primacy and indeed even the point of the bible evaporates. Creationists recognised that many decades ago and decided to draw a line in the sand.
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    Problem is, it's a slippery slope.
    I agree and that's why I take everything in moderation. I require spiritual/intellectual equilibrium.
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  56. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwirko
    For fans of the "Why do people laugh..." series, I'd also recommend the "Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism" series by the super-fast-talking AaronRa.
    Personally, I like Aron better. He addresses the core flaws (foundational falsehoods, if you will) of the creationists' thinking rather than simply picking X claim and showing how stupid it is.

    For anyone who wants it, here's a link to his series.
    Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism

    (His other videos are not to be missed either.)
    Artist for Red Oasis.
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    For fans of "Why do people laugh..." series I suggest the Debunking Genesis series on KingHeathen's channel. or dechha1981's We've heard it already series. Both are very informative, and even pretty entertaining.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/KingHeathen

    http://www.youtube.com/user/dechha1981
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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  58. #57 Re: Why do People Laugh at Creationists? (Posted with Consen 
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    These videos are copyright free and the person behind them encouraged me to share their content with as many people as possible.


    Thunderfoot's Why Do People Laugh at Creationists? Videos:

    Part 1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY

    Part 2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=istxUVBZD2s

    Part 3- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdEZT...eature=channel

    Part 4- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjFeV...eature=channel

    Part 5- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09hOe...eature=related

    Part 6- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKdfeP1sGIg

    Part 7- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6_o1...eature=channel

    Part 8- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3nvH...eature=channel

    Part 9- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzDYV...eature=channel

    Part 10- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aGEX...eature=channel

    Part 11- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttnU8...eature=channel

    Part 12- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw80o...eature=channel

    Part 13- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPMwD...eature=channel

    Part 14- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z55oW...eature=related

    Part 15- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sui4C...eature=related

    Part 16- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loPHY...eature=channel

    Part 17- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWdvu...eature=related

    Part 18- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXUtH...eature=channel

    Part 19- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUGJ...eature=related

    Part 20- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inES_...eature=channel

    Part 21- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnC7N...eature=channel

    Part 22- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNGK...eature=channel

    Part 23- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X8ai...eature=channel

    Part 24- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihYq2...eature=channel

    Part 25- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxtbc...eature=channel

    Part 26- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntEE9...eature=channel

    Part 27- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0pjF...eature=related

    Part 28- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDUkd...eature=channel

    Part 29- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyd6o...eature=channel

    Part 30- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpL1d...eature=channel

    Part 31- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqB4F...eature=channel

    Part 32- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tysZO...eature=channel
    i laughed, i cried, i learned... that creationists are not only stupid, but stupid on purpose... oh wait no i already knew that.

    well in any case, it was an absolutely brilliant and humorous evisceration of creationism, the likes of which i've not seen since i had a five hour long debate with a creationist.
    physics: accurate, objective, boring
    chemistry: accurate if physics is accurate, slightly subjective, you can blow stuff up
    biology: accurate if chemistry is accurate, somewhat subjective, fascinating
    religion: accurate if people are always right, highly subjective, bewildering
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  59. #58  
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    Spread the word disciple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    Spread the word disciple.
    Yeah.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Wow! These videos are great! I thank you very much for these videos, I laughed at the ones about Kent Hovind and his ridiculous theories such as an iceball covering the Earth!

    Anyway, I saw someone saying that 'if you agree with science you have to have faith in it'. What?! Science doesn't require faith, it requires facts and logical evidence!
    "Nature doesn't care what we call it, she just does it anyway" - R. Feynman
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    Valid points.
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    I often ask myself the same question
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    All these are nice but in the end it will be revealed that Life is really a creation
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioBio
    All these are nice but in the end it will be revealed that Life is really a creation
    Why does all the preamble point the other way?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioBio
    All these are nice but in the end it will be revealed that Life is really a creation
    promises, promises
    in the end we're all dead
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  67. #66  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Why does all the preamble point the other way?


    Has science designed a living cell?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioBio
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Why does all the preamble point the other way?


    Has science designed a living cell?
    The day we do, you'll start claiming it's evidence that life was designed.

    That's the problem with 'hypotheses' that lack specific testable predictions.
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    Biologists straggle to find out a good definition for life.I will tell you why:Because scientists see life as a natural phenomenon(while i believe its not).And this confusion about what life is, wont change even if we find another form of life elsewhere.Only if you accept that Life is something artificial you can give a good definition(that the life on this planet was programmed to reproduce and evolve or something like that)
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    Only if you accept that Life is something artificial you can give a good definition(that the life on this planet was programmed to reproduce and evolve or something like that)
    Your failure to understand evolution and to see that natural forces could have done the same does not affect the veracity of the theory. It just leaves you in a self-imposed fog of ignorance.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    in addition, the fact that people have trouble defining life in all its instances does not affect the reality of life as a concept - nor does it say anything about it being manufactured or being an epiphenomenon of chemistry
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioBio
    All these are nice but in the end it will be revealed that Life is really a creation
    Ahh that explains it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioBio
    Biologists straggle to find out a good definition for life.
    There's no universally accepted definition of a mountain either. We still understand them though.

    Quote Originally Posted by BioBio
    I will tell you why:Because scientists see life as a natural phenomenon(while i believe its not).
    No... the reason why we have difficulty defining life is because the boundary between what we consider to be non-living self replicating things is as blurred as the boundary between mountains and hills. It's irrelevant, since the label 'life' is recognised as just that; a convenient label not to be taken as representing something fundamental to nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by BioBio
    And this confusion about what life is, wont change even if we find another form of life elsewhere.
    I have no confusion about what life is- though I suspect you do. Perhaps we can help.

    Quote Originally Posted by BioBio
    Only if you accept that Life is something artificial you can give a good definition(that the life on this planet was programmed to reproduce and evolve or something like that)
    Do we need to accept that a thing is designed in order to define it, or does this rule only hold for life? How have you come to this conclusion?
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  74. #73  
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    Has science designed a living cell?
    P.S. Craig Venter and his team designed and synthesized DNA and inserted it into a bacteria creating a novel organism, so yes you could say that science "designed" a living cell.[/quote]
    The need for an intelligible world begins with the fearfulness of pre-philosophical, pre-literate societies facing an unpredictable world of change and trying to make sense of it.
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  75. #74  
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    Its not the same and you know it
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    ya but don't you think it just shows the principle that it is possible to make an organism that responds to the environment according to instructions put together by man?
    The need for an intelligible world begins with the fearfulness of pre-philosophical, pre-literate societies facing an unpredictable world of change and trying to make sense of it.
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    Does being able to synthecise a fully operational and novel genome and animate an organism with it count for nothing?
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    For real though, people should respect each others beliefs, and creationists laugh at evolutionists too. Coming from a neutral stand point.
    The need for an intelligible world begins with the fearfulness of pre-philosophical, pre-literate societies facing an unpredictable world of change and trying to make sense of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dkav
    For real though, people should respect each others beliefs, and creationists laugh at evolutionists too. Coming from a neutral stand point.
    Nah. Some propositions (creationism) aren't fit for respect. They deserve nothing less than ridicule, satire, and comedy.
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    I am beginning to thin k that consciousness in the hands of an ape does not work
    The fact that you (an ape) can recognise this means that it could work. We have a very long way to go though.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Depends what you mean by 'could'. I could wake up tomorrow a lottery millionaire with a new species of parrot being served for my breakfast by our new pope nad world leader (such an attractive smile as Dawkins pointed out).
    The best predicter of future behaviour is past behaviour. What worries me is that the instututions we look to to uphold the truth are riddled with corrupstion and self deceit, and most poeple would not give a damn as they are to busy playing X box.
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    exactly what 'popular science' is total bunk?

    there is a lot of bunk that masquerades as science but what is agreed as science by actual reputable scientists doesn't fit that description.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProcInc
    exactly what 'popular science' is total bunk?

    there is a lot of bunk that masquerades as science but what is agreed as science by actual reputable scientists doesn't fit that description.

    The problem with this argument is that its the same form as religious arguments

    take the form:

    "there is a lot of bunk that masquerades as Islaam but what is agreed as ISLAAM by actual reputable ISLAAMISTS doesn't fit that description.[/quote]

    It points to a form of perfectionism which is indicated by definition . No basis for an ontology, and no foundation in reality.

    By popyular scienc e I mean the stuff that appears in less reputable newspapers and on the back of toothpaste tubes. Marketed, corporately abused science.
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  84. #83  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroZero
    Depends what you mean by 'could'. I could wake up tomorrow a lottery millionaire with a new species of parrot being served for my breakfast by our new pope nad world leader (such an attractive smile as Dawkins pointed out).
    The best predicter of future behaviour is past behaviour. What worries me is that the instututions we look to to uphold the truth are riddled with corrupstion and self deceit, and most poeple would not give a damn as they are to busy playing X box.
    Sure, a lot of things have to happen for to progress past a threshold of sorts, but the potential is there at least. All we can do is our little bit that might get a few people onto the right road.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Kalster, with respect, and not gunning for you persnally, I dont think this 'all we can do' thing is a sufficient answer, objectively. We all need too change fundamentally, in ways we dont want to change, nor do we even knoew how - consumrism.
    even if half the worlds pupulation changed and stopped damging the planet, this would only defer the issue. The outlook is bleak and most of humanity spends more time worrying about their hair.
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  86. #85  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroZero
    Kalster, with respect, and not gunning for you persnally, I dont think this 'all we can do' thing is a sufficient answer, objectively. We all need too change fundamentally, in ways we dont want to change, nor do we even knoew how - consumrism.
    even if half the worlds pupulation changed and stopped damging the planet, this would only defer the issue. The outlook is bleak and most of humanity spends more time worrying about their hair.
    Don't worry, I am not overly sensitive. :wink:

    I agree, a fundamental change has to happen, but it is not something that will happen now or instantaneously at some point in the future IMO. That is why I say the best we can do is try and change people's minds as best we can in our own lives.

    My personal opinion is that the best chance we have of not only mere survival, but as universally positive a living experience for all humans as possible, is to move into being habitually empathic towards our fellow man. We do have it built into us, but we seem to find it difficult to extend this ability to people outside of our immediate communities.

    A few things that stand in the way of this is the inherently divisive influences in society. This includes to a large part religion, lack of critical thinking skills, bigotry and racism. I have been amazed more than I care to have experienced by generally very nice people displaying surprising levels of contempt and caustic bigotry towards certain groups of people and paradigms.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    zerozero, any honest and sufficiently educated person understands that science as a practice is not an ambiguous religious doctrine. To say something isn't science is also demonstrable by application of the scientific method.

    Nobody can make the downright ignorant and unsubstantial claims you are without an alterior motive.

    "By popyular scienc e I mean the stuff that appears in less reputable newspapers and on the back of toothpaste tubes. Marketed, corporately abused science."

    But we KNOW that isn't science after minimal research and what's more no reputable practitioner of science claims it is.

    Science is an objective study and as such we are able to determine almost straight away the difference between pseudoscience (homeopathy, creationism) and real science (evolutionary theory, quantum theory, cell theory)

    You are trying to argue that people are irretrievably stupid and overtly distracted. To what end? Exactly what is the point you are trying to make?
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  88. #87  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroZero
    [By popyular scienc e I mean the stuff that appears in less reputable newspapers and on the back of toothpaste tubes. Marketed, corporately abused science.
    Have I missed something here? What the frigging hell has such 'science' as you choose to call it got to do with anything important. A pile of dog shit is still dog shit even if you choose to call it a canine excrementary entity.
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  90. #89 It seems as if there is an argument over and argument. 
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    I would just like to point out that there seems to be an argument over whether or not religion and science as fundamental ideas even are compatible to be argued. I'm going to be a little hypocrite however and slightly join the argument.

    I think in our culture scientists are kind of expected to be Atheist because they can not prove religion, also religious leaders are expected to be against science. I hope that eventually these profiles will fade because there are many great scientists that are also highly religious.
    For example Rocket scientist Werner Von Braun said this
    "Science and faith are the two dominant forces in this century. We must try to understand their nature if we are to comprehend some of the most serious problems of the era in which we live.
    The mainspring of science is curiosity. Since time immemorial, there have always been men and women who desire to know what was under the rock, beyond the hills, across the oceans. This restless breed now wants to know what makes an atom work, through what process life reproduces itself, or what is on the far side of the moon.
    But, also, there would not be a single great accomplishment in the history of mankind without faith. Any man who strives to accomplish something needs a degree of faith in himself. And whenever he takes on a challenge that requires more moral strength than he can muster with his own limited mental and spiritual resources, he needs faith in God."

    I know there is a Higher Power, and I also know that science is the best means of gaining understanding about our physical world. I believe that this Higher Power created us using order and precision. I believe that this order and precision is what we explain as scientific fact. In other words I believe that the Being who created this world and all of us on it is a greater scientist than any of us.
    I believe that the why is just as important as the how. Religion is the best means of understanding the spiritual world( if you are wondering what world this is than I invite you to ask yourself Why you decided to search for scientific answers? Why are you searching for truth? Why do you do anything? But why? but why? but why?) Everything has a purpose, does it not? Then why does it have that purpose?

    Okay I am off my soap box. I hope I've given you guys something to think about.
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  91. #90 Re: It seems as if there is an argument over and argument. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roselyn Small
    The mainspring of science is curiosity.
    And the heart of science is it's method of verification and falsification. The curiosity you mention must be checked closely by the rejection of ideas which lack evidence or merit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Roselyn Small
    But, also, there would not be a single great accomplishment in the history of mankind without faith. Any man who strives to accomplish something needs a degree of faith in himself.
    Not really, no. You are conflating the term faith, and mixing/matching definitions. The faith applied to belief in a deity is far different than you are using it here. Here, you are trying to equivocate the aforementioned curiosity and desire to learn with the religious idea of accepting as absolutely true a belief which lacks (and which is often directly contradicted by) evidence.

    The faith which drove these accomplishments was more of a passion... a desire and thirst to explore the universe and learn. THAT's what these "great men" used in their pursuits of understanding and exploration. That is a COMPLETELY different use of the term than the religious concept of faith whereby people accept a claim as true in the absence of (and often in direct opposition to) evidence.


    I encourage you to read this thread over here where others were making almost the same argument as you, and where their arguments were shown both lacking and fallacious: http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...=259548#259548


    Quote Originally Posted by Roselyn Small
    I know there is a Higher Power
    Really? On what rational evidence is this "knowledge" predicated? How do you know? What informs that knowing? Be specific... go on... I'm genuinely curious.

    You see... You DON'T know that. You BELIEVE that. HUGE difference.
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  92. #91 Re: It seems as if there is an argument over and argument. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    You see... You DON'T know that. You BELIEVE that. HUGE difference.
    So since you believe that Life emerged on Earth without the aid of a creator, do you have an alternative theory?No.You say that a creator does not exist yet your best argument about how evolution started is "i dont know how it started"
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    Ughh...disgusting..I thought I could at the least avoid Creationist morons on a science website...but no..these assholes are everywhere...ESPECIALLY on science forums...just so they can basically spew "facts" like The Bible is the Word of God; therefore it is infallible!" or a version of "Flood Geology" (if they are really stupid).

    Anyway, MORON, read a damn book. Read ten books. Read any damn thing besides your precious book of lies. AND STOP BOTHERING US.
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  94. #93  
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    Being able to say 'i don't know', other than being the mark of a wise man (as Socrates pointed out) is why science is superior to religion. Religious books are closed to the pen - the book of science has only just begun.
    The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas - Tao Te Ching

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    http://www.itsyourturn.com/
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  95. #94  
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    Quote Originally Posted by BioBio
    So since you believe that Life emerged on Earth without the aid of a creator, do you have an alternative theory?No.You say that a creator does not exist yet your best argument about how evolution started is "i dont know how it started"
    Except, we do have theories about how life began... Many of them, supported by evidence and physical processes, and... while we continue to improve our knowledge in these arenas and adjust those theories as we learn more... they are much more rational and reasonable than the position you seem to hold that some magic sky pixie farted us all into existence one day from his ethereal cloud.





    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus
    Being able to say 'i don't know', other than being the mark of a wise man (as Socrates pointed out) is why science is superior to religion. Religious books are closed to the pen - the book of science has only just begun.
    I like this. Well writ, my man.
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    Scientists claim on TV that the Flying Spaghetti Monster will someday evolve.
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  97. #96  
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterspaghettiflying
    Scientists claim on TV that the Flying Spaghetti Monster will someday evolve.
    Deleted your link. This is a discussion forum, you have to give us more than a terse advert for your blog if you want hits.
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    Awesome.Thanks for the link.
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    i like this topic but lets cool down people...



    Three freshman-engineering students were sitting around talking between classes, when one brought up the question of who designed the human body.
    One of the students insisted that the human body must have been designed by an electrical engineer because of the perfection of the nerves and synapses.
    Another disagreed, and exclaimed that it had to have been a mechanical engineer who designed the human body. The system of levers and pulleys is ingenious.
    "No," the third student said, "you're both wrong. The human body was designed by an architect. Who else but an architect would have put a toxic waste line through a recreation area?"

    that gives you idea of what i feel about creationists....

    2) "In Science the credit goes to the man who convinces the world, not to the man to whom the idea first occurs."

    that is why we are still debating.....
    The mind is the most powerful weapon on earth ....

    but like all weapons it needs constant maintenance...
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    Had an idiot BIO MAJOR tell me that biological anthropology was a waste of time and that I'd see the truth one day. What truth? What does he know that I don't concerning God? Was he basically telling me I'll be sorry when I die and go to hell? If so, what a dick.
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    The curse and the scourge of the Idea of the god who never was has met its doom and died by its own hand of fabrication, for the causeless basis of simple stuff had to have been forever, as well as the Being not being able to be first and fundamental.

    Science and philosophy relate the final benediction as the mourners climb the hill to the old Graveyard of the Gods, their eyes blinded by their tears.

    Sad Yesteryear, Forever, and Everywhere, they all came—to weep for Nobody Nothing Nowhere, with Why and How, Then, Now, When, and What and Where, even Inward and Outward, with Potential—led but by Sorrow.

    RIP
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