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Thread: How do certain animals in general get protein and fats if th

  1. #1 How do certain animals in general get protein and fats if th 
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    In the animal cell, the structures and organelles and all the stuff made in the cell is proteins, fats, and carbohydrates.


    How do rabbits get protein and fats if the only thing they eat is hay, fruits and vegetables, their own poop, and water?

    How do certain animals in general get protein and fats if they don't eat meat?


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    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    Herbivores tend to have fewer necessary amino acids, so they can make more proteins from scratch than we can. However, anything they can't make from scratch from plant protein is gotten from the bacteria in their gut.

    You just need carbs to make fat, no need to eat fat.


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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    Herbivores tend to have fewer necessary amino acids, so they can make more proteins from scratch than we can. However, anything they can't make from scratch from plant protein is gotten from the bacteria in their gut.

    You just need carbs to make fat, no need to eat fat.
    We don't or rabbits don't? What about the "essential" fatty acids?
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    You're right I forgot about the essential fatty acids, don't know if the herbivores have lost the ability to make them denovo like humans, but plants do make those fats denovo and they would be present in their diet. Still most fats can be made denovo by animals.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
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    Grass contains protein. A lot less than meat, of course, but sufficient for a herbivore.
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    Rabbits re-ingest high-protein cecotropes.
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    Having started weightlifting myself ive heared a guy in the gym being frightened to death of going into catabolism which as ive understood is the following:

    If you dont have enough carbohydrates or fat to meet the energy requirement of the body, the body then break down protein (especially in MUSCLES) and transforms it into glucose (carbs?) for energy.

    Now if this is true (Im no expert myself just repeating what ive heard) cant the body also do the opposite?

    That is at a major supply of carbohydrates and/or fat - turn this into proteins?
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    You will lose a certain amount of lean body mass whenever you lose weight, the protein being burned as fuel. Bodybuilders are sometimes overly concerned about this and think they have to eat 6 meals a day, or some such myths, to keep it from happening. As long as you get adequate protein during the day, you'll be fine.
    http://avidityfitness.net/2008/01/12...artin-berkhan/

    The ability to burn protein as fuel does not imply the ability to manufacture it.
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    Raziell-



    Yes, that is true... Remember during the Holocaust that all those Jews were so skinny because they didn't eat enough food? That's what happens when you don't eat.
    There digestive system eats out all their muscle because it needs "energy" in order for it to survive. If you're stomach is empty and hungry, right away your body starts eating out its tissues. However, your body recognizes that you are hungry and need energy to survive, so your body actually lowers its metabolism in order to conserve energy. That means that the body doesn't eat out of its muscle as fast.


    Eventually, when you don't eat for a long time, and you "fast" over several days, your digestive system begins tearing down the tissues of your heart and brain for energy, causing those organs not to function properly. Eventually, when the brain and heart lose too many of its tissues, then your system shuts down and you die.







    By the way, I don't think that we can manufacture proteins from carbs. However, we do have the ability to manufacture carbs from fats and proteins. After all, most of the protein and fat you ingest converts into glucose and sugar when they hit the digestive system, so that's why you need so much protein and fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noSkillz
    Raziell-



    Yes, that is true... Remember during the Holocaust that all those Jews were so skinny because they didn't eat enough food? That's what happens when you don't eat.
    There digestive system eats out all their muscle because it needs "energy" in order for it to survive. If you're stomach is empty and hungry, right away your body starts eating out its tissues. However, your body recognizes that you are hungry and need energy to survive, so your body actually lowers its metabolism in order to conserve energy. That means that the body doesn't eat out of its muscle as fast.


    Eventually, when you don't eat for a long time, and you "fast" over several days, your digestive system begins tearing down the tissues of your heart and brain for energy, causing those organs not to function properly. Eventually, when the brain and heart lose too many of its tissues, then your system shuts down and you die.







    By the way, I don't think that we can manufacture proteins from carbs. However, we do have the ability to manufacture carbs from fats and proteins. After all, most of the protein and fat you ingest converts into glucose and sugar when they hit the digestive system, so that's why you need so much protein and fat.
    Your reply has gotten me extremely curious to your original question aswell

    It would seem protein is by far the most important and hardest to maintain of the three. Yet as you say many lifeforms live with low fat/protein in their diet, and some of them with miracolously large muscles compared to their intake of these.
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    Raziell

    Remember that animals that eat foods with lower levels of protein (eg a horse) will also eat far more such food compared to their body weight, relative to what a high protein consumer (eg a dog) will eat.
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    Amino acids which compose proteins don't contain any unusual elements that don't exist in non-proteins. Hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and sulfur exist in significant quantities in our environment, including air and water. Proteins are the building blocks of animals and, for humans, we can make all amino acids except for the eight or nine "essential amino acids", which exist in significant quantities in non-protein foods. Refer to Table 3 on this webpage for protein intake for vegans
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    It's not the elemental components that are the problem but that many organisms have lost the enzymes necessary to produce all the amino acids over the course of evolution. All except 8-9 is a bit of a silly statement when there are 21 amino acids, that's almost half. Moreover, if I remember correctly 2-3 of the others we can make are made from the essential ones.

    A vegan lifestyle which can take advantage of our modern technology to get a wide variety of plant products is not the same as a rabbit's diet. A rabbit only has access to small plants, like grasses and clover, and to the bark at the base of trees. That's why they have a very large caecum and engage in coprophagy to make their diet viable, they also have to eat nearly none-stop. My pet rabbit eats about her body size a day in hay, plus an equal portion of fresh greens, and 1/8 cup of compact timothy hay pellets. This is a lot of food for a 5 pound animal, much more* than my cat at least.
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    Forum Masters Degree Twit of wit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy

    A vegan lifestyle which can take advantage of our modern technology
    What are you talking about?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twit of wit
    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy

    A vegan lifestyle which can take advantage of our modern technology
    What are you talking about?
    Well, the technology to get a wide variety of plant products would include things like farming, transportation, and food preservation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Quote Originally Posted by Twit of wit
    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy

    A vegan lifestyle which can take advantage of our modern technology
    What are you talking about?
    Well, the technology to get a wide variety of plant products would include things like farming, transportation, and food preservation.
    You don't need any modern technology to grow and store grains and pulses.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twit of wit

    You don't need any modern technology to grow and store grains and pulses.
    Apparently you haven't been on a farm recently, they're not ploughing the ground manually, ya know? Not to mention you know all that supermarket stuff, and the ready availability of crops grown miles away from you.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    Quote Originally Posted by Twit of wit

    You don't need any modern technology to grow and store grains and pulses.
    Apparently you haven't been on a farm recently, they're not ploughing the ground manually, ya know? Not to mention you know all that supermarket stuff, and the ready availability of crops grown miles away from you.
    Can you explain a bit more why do you think that technology is more important for vegans?
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  20. #19  
    Forum Professor Zwirko's Avatar
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    They often take a lot of supplements, such as B12 for example.

    B12 pills don't grow on trees (yet).
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  21. #20  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twit of wit
    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    Quote Originally Posted by Twit of wit

    You don't need any modern technology to grow and store grains and pulses.
    Apparently you haven't been on a farm recently, they're not ploughing the ground manually, ya know? Not to mention you know all that supermarket stuff, and the ready availability of crops grown miles away from you.
    Can you explain a bit more why do you think that technology is more important for vegans?
    I don't get why this is such a big deal for you. Technology is a big part of supplying everyone's diet in the West. To have the variety and supply of vegetables, legumes, fruits, and grains needed for a healthy vegan diet you need a well developed agricultural industry. Besides, the main point of that post being that a vegan's diet is not informative when discussing the nutrition of herbivores.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    Technology is a big part of supplying everyone's diet in the West.
    Exactly.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twit of wit
    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    Technology is a big part of supplying everyone's diet in the West.
    Exactly.
    What's your point?
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