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Thread: h2o2

  1. #1 h2o2 
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    im not sure where to post this... chemistry for the molucles
    or bio for the human part....

    but why is it that, by adding one oxygen atom to h2o do we get a substance that burns and poisons us...

    (being that h2o ... water dosent burn.. and add oxygen(which we breath) we get a compound that burns and helps dye hair...)

    i dont suppose there is a straight forward answer?


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  3. #2  
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    H2O2 is Hydrogon Peroxide, right? It's good for wounds, not sure what would happen if you drank it though.


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    Chemistry is wierd like that. You can take an atom that is deadly, mix it with another deadly atom, and you have a cure to cancer. Not REALLY, but thats just how chemistry works. I was confused through my whole chemistry class back in high school.
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    indeed, chemistry is weird like that..
    i askd my sis , and all she has to say is.. "i havent done that bit yet!"

    i never heard it was good for cuts... i 'll get my facts straight next time
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    The Hydrogen Peroxide used for people is a very very diluted concentration (3% or less I think). The full strength stuff will burn your skin off. I've worked with up to 70% concentration...and trust me you don't want it on you. It's pretty nasty stuff.
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    I know the periodic table shows the elements in an order, and where there's elements missing is where there is no element because it isn't stable enough to be an element. I forgot a lot about Chemistry now, but for some reason it was always the easiest class. I was considering a Biochemistry type major in college, but I decided I didn't want to spend my life in a lab. Also I was better with Chemistry on paper than in a lab anyway.
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    the stuff i used burns, not as much as fire..(fire burns too) but it stung for the rest of the day,
    i dont know the concentration of the stuff i was using, it also burn't the varnish of the table!
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    Quote Originally Posted by godgod3rd
    the stuff i used burns, not as much as fire..(fire burns too) but it stung for the rest of the day,
    i dont know the concentration of the stuff i was using, it also burn't the varnish of the table!
    It sounds to me like it was a pretty high concentration.
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    we were using it for... biology i think, enzymes if i remember corectly,

    my science teacher has the toughest skin, once he was using a alkilne, soudium hydroxide... and claimed it just made his hands soapy, due to the oil on our skin reaction,
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  11. #10  
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    Someone mentioned earlier in this thread the suprise they had that just by adding another oxygen atom you end up with a quite differently behaving molecule, both to water and oxygen as free molecule. This might seem strange, but surely it is not half as strange as the toxic effect that oxygen has when inhaled under pressure.

    Oxygen as we know it exists around 21% of the atmosphere, the rest being nitrogen and some inert gases. When scuba divers dive to 10 metres under water the atmospheric pressure doubles of both gases. This presure gradient increases with depth at the same linear rate. They also dive with higher concentration oxygen mixes, sometimes with 100% oxygen used to help recovery from diving accidents.

    The 100% mix becomes toxic at 10metres water depth, causing a condition known as anoxia with convulsion, unconciousness etc.

    Here we have our 'angel of life' - oxygen, that kills us at higher concentrations. It also creates oxygen free radicals that act to damage our cells and DNA. IN the process of disabling this we produce h2o2 the peroxide that is also not good for our cells structures but is still better than the radical known as 'superoxide'.

    It seems the reason for this is simply the tendency of any structure to seek stability. In this case oxygen bonds with blood haemoglobin and then recombines within the respiration of each cell. During this process unstable free radicals occur that then seek stable bindings that might not help the survival of our overall body.

    Its a case of "et tu, Brutus?" and a very selfish universe. We can trust no one thing in the struggle for life, even that which we rely upon for life itself.
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    I may be completely off-base with this, so if I am wrong someone please correct me. I also did a little research before making this post and could find very little to either confirm or deny what I am posting. I think you are confusing some things here TB.

    Let me start with what I know as fact. Anoxia is caused by a complete lack of oxygen, i.e. anoxic respiration. This occurs in high endurance sports when an athlete can not breathe in enough oxygen. The muscles will start respirating without it. This reaction leads to fermentation of lactic acid, which is why many athletes are sore the following morning. Not overly harmful. Now, the important part here is that inorder to be anoxic, there has to be a complete lack in oxygen.

    Second of all, diver's do not get anoxic; they get hypoxic. This is not because of inhaling too much oxygen, but rather an error in whoever filled their tank. The oxygen in a pressurized tank needs to be high enough to force it into the lungs (since they are under greater pressure) at deeper depths. When someone does not fill it to the proper
    pressure a diver can become hypoxic because he cannot inhale enough oxygen.

    Now, for what I am unsure of. I do not think oxygen is toxic in higher concentrations in the blood, all that will happen is more red blood cells will be there to snatch it up. Because of osmosis, much of what is not snatched up would be exhaled, and the rest will be forced to be dissolved in the blood stream. (We are at a pretty high pressure here)
    I do not know the exact pressure of the blood stream, and I can only assume it is about 14psi (like the rest of our bodies). This is not enough pressure to hold the oxygen dissolved in the blood. What I think would happen is it will boil and leave the body, kind of like a diver with the benz. It may be painful or it may be life threatening, but it is not poisoning the body as you said it will.

    Again, this is far from my area of expertise, and if you have any articles on the subject that disprove me I will concede. However, what you are saying simply does not seem to make sense to me. I will also try to reasearch teh subject more and post findings.
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    Sploit,

    You maintain the followingas fact. I suggest you check your sources, this information is not commonly given to divers or athletes.


    Let me start with what I know as fact. Anoxia is caused by a complete lack of oxygen, i.e. anoxic respiration. This occurs in high endurance sports when an athlete can not breathe in enough oxygen. The muscles will start respirating without it. This reaction leads to fermentation of lactic acid, which is why many athletes are sore the following morning. Not overly harmful. Now, the important part here is that inorder to be anoxic, there has to be a complete lack in oxygen.
    You are correct that anoxia is a complete lack of oxygen, but the respiration you are referring to is aerobic (in the prescence of air) or anaerobic (in the absence of air). Anoxia occurs in divers from drowing, or tanks with pure nitrogen or helium. It is rapidly fatal.

    Second of all, diver's do not get anoxic; they get hypoxic. This is not because of inhaling too much oxygen, but rather an error in whoever filled their tank. The oxygen in a pressurized tank needs to be high enough to force it into the lungs (since they are under greater pressure) at deeper depths. When someone does not fill it to the proper
    pressure a diver can become hypoxic because he cannot inhale enough oxygen.
    You are correct that divers usually get hypoxic, meaning too little oxygen. Hyperoxia is the condition of oxygen toxicity. Hypoxia can bea caused by anything that prevents enough oxygen to the tissues. This depends upon where the breakdown occurs, from the source of air/gas through the lungs, blood and finally tissues. From equipment failure supplying gas to carbon dioxide poisoning in the tissues.

    Oxygen/air etc does not get forced into divers lungs. The demand valve in the mouth has a pressure diaphragm that delivers around 12 atmospheres (atm) pressure on conscious inhalation. The air pressure in tanks is around the 200 atm level to begin with, the demand valve knocks this down to 12atm for breathing. The pressure drops as it gets used up and can be inhaled as long as the pressure in the tank is greater than the external pressure. At zero metres sea level this is 1 atmosphere. So some foolish people breathe their tanks dry.

    Now, for what I am unsure of. I do not think oxygen is toxic in higher concentrations in the blood, all that will happen is more red blood cells will be there to snatch it up. Because of osmosis, much of what is not snatched up would be exhaled, and the rest will be forced to be dissolved in the blood stream. (We are at a pretty high pressure here)
    I do not know the exact pressure of the blood stream, and I can only assume it is about 14psi (like the rest of our bodies). This is not enough pressure to hold the oxygen dissolved in the blood. What I think would happen is it will boil and leave the body, kind of like a diver with the benz. It may be painful or it may be life threatening, but it is not poisoning the body as you said it will.
    Oxygen toxicity is a known issue both for divers and people using hyperbaric chambers. The pressure in the blood system is affected by the pressure in the lungs. In turn this is affected by the external pressure. 10 metres of water equals one atmospheric pressure. The pressure gradient of the inhaled gas will ensure that the tissues absorb at the higher pressure, in this case 10 metres (2 ATM) of water is sufficient if breathing 100% oxygen to cause hyperoxia after 25 minutes (This is an average and is regarded as a maximum limit if divers are using 100% O2, it varies with people and conditions. It should NOT be attempted by people with no qualifications in mixed gases.)

    Oxygen at this pressure has a complex effect on the brain, it is thought to interfere with the CO2 and O2 exchange. Ironically the body cannnot take up the O2 in spite of its abundance.

    The boiling effect of gas leaving the body only occurs when the pressure gradient allows it. This happens when you ascend and the gas dissolved in the tissues, blood etc flows toward the lower external pressure. The bends are caused by nitrogen boiling out of the blood caused by a lowering of pressure.


    Again, this is far from my area of expertise, and if you have any articles on the subject that disprove me I will concede. However, what you are saying simply does not seem to make sense to me. I will also try to reasearch teh subject more and post findings
    Do not take my word for this, google search on 'hyperoxia' or 'oxygen txicity'. I have been scuba diving for 15 years and this post has forced me to go and check all my text books to get the detail correct, however I am sure of the basic concepts.
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    h2o2 burn's ...

    i have heard of diver;s and there o2 tank's causing all the above.(t.b)
    i also heard of sploit's arguement's...

    here i have another question.... is it tru that if someone were drowning.. they get high before they die?

    i want to go diving too, i want to do alot of thing's!!!
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    goodgod3rd: He is correct in his above post.
    Our posts do for the most part agree, except on a few technical issues (i.e. I though air was forced into the lungs, it is actually pressurized enough so that it can be inhaled at will at greater depths), and I am sure he is much more knowlegable in this since he has been diving for 15 years. I also know very little about oxygen toxicity.
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    GG3
    i have heard of diver;s and there o2 tank's causing all the above.(t.b)
    i also heard of sploit's arguement's...

    here i have another question.... is it tru that if someone were drowning.. they get high before they die?

    i want to go diving too, i want to do alot of thing's!!!
    Sploit was not basing his views on experience (Am I correct Sploit - if you are a qualified diver and if this is what you were taught, your instructor needs to be imprisoned?)

    If you want to dive you must be trained by a qualified instructor from one of the major diving schools. Since SCUBA deals with air under high pressure it can cause some unique problems, however oxygen toxicity is unlikely to be one of them for a novice diver. You need both the theory of the sport, as well as experience, to do it safely. Then, unless you are unlucky or stupid, you run minimal risk of injury or death.

    I have no idea if drowning causes a person to get high, I had heard that a sense of peace comes when water floods into the lung, following the initial panic and resistance.

    The thread was about odd things to do with oxygen so I will add this.
    • Our reflex desire to breath does not occur because we have too little oxygen in our system, but because we have too much carbon dioxide in it
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    .. here i was asking a scientific forum... when my friend know all along!!

    the reason is.
    h2o has no need for more electron's, (full outer shell..)

    where h2o2 , is looking for, (on the pull) for two electron's..

    so when it hit's your skin , it start's grabbing!!!

    wouuld that explain my First Question?
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    ok, not sure if im right but:

    hydrogen when it ionises, forms into a cation with a charge of +1
    oxygen, forms an anion, with a a charge of -2
    so therefore, if you were to bind 2 hydrogen ions, and one oxide ion, you would have a molecule with a neutral chrage(water)

    but if you were to add another oxide ion, then its charge would change to -2, meaning it will react with any substance it touches(eg skin/hair)

    but then again isnt 2HCL neutral and reactive, umm, i think i jsut coked on my own logic
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    Hydrogen Peroxide doesn't destroy skin at low concentrations because we have enzmes to neutralize it. You put it in wounds to kill bacteria, which are not in possession of that certain enzyme, and thus it works as a cell toxin, which is where all the fizzing comes from.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotsexyangelprincess
    Hydrogen Peroxide doesn't destroy skin at low concentrations because we have enzmes to neutralize it. You put it in wounds to kill bacteria, which are not in possession of that certain enzyme, and thus it works as a cell toxin, which is where all the fizzing comes from.
    Yes, but at higher concentrations it's bad news.

    The low concentration stuff works great to get blood out of the carpet as well.
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