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View Poll Results: Does Heightism Affect You?

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Thread: Heightism...Are Short Males Doomed to Remain Single?

  1. #1 Heightism...Are Short Males Doomed to Remain Single? 
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    I am 5'5, average looking and have muscles. I can speak German and am fairly intelligent. I always treat people with respect and can be very witty at times. I know that women prefer taller males but for me this is extremely terrible news. I wasn't even aware that my height could possibly matter at all until after my first year of college. I just assumed people didn't find me physically attractive or that I wasn't social enough (I've found that that is only part of my problem). What I've noticed is that according to 95% of girls, height is one of the primary determining factors in mate selection. 20/20 devoted a segment decades ago of a 5'0 male (a successful one at that) getting repeatedly rejected by women. There is a documentary about such heightism and in China there is a 5'3 height requirement to merely obtain a driver's license!!! Sperm banks have height requirements here in America!! Outrageous! There was even a need for an organization named NOSSA (The National Organization of Short Statured Americans) to be established. What do you guys think? Anyone here going through what I am right now? (trouble finding dates, less respect at work, ppl treating you like a teenager, etc...)


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    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    I like short boys.

    But anyway short women usually don't mind short men, I think people often have apprehension about entering into relationships with people who are significantly different in height from themselves.

    *shrug*


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    All the above.. and I'm 5'11. Maybe it's because I'm a jackass though... It's one of the prone symptoms of Aspergers...
    "Democracy is a problem because it treats everyone as equals." - Betty Fischer

    "back in the 50's or 60's Nicky Criuz was a gang leader who met David Wilkerson in New York City. After much discussion over months or years, i forget how long, Wilkerson's wife became pregnant. one day Cruz decides to test God, he basically prayed--God if you are real let the baby be born a boy-- it was a boy. "
    - Logic of a creationist

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    I'm 5'11" are you calling me short!?

    It would be nice to just reach that 6 foot mark though T_T
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  6. #5  
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    Guys that are short aren't doomed, you just need to find a good person. My friend is living with her boyfriend now, he's like 5'2 and she is like 5'4.
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  7. #6  
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    Yes, I was the tallest kid in my grade through elementary. I had no trouble from bullies. Later, more girlfriends than is normal.

    My public body language is deferential. I often twist, squat, allow shorter people a larger "bubble". So as not to loom. There are pros and cons in this. For example in a crowd, say jostling for an elevator, I could impose my way quite easily ...so I shouldn't. If anybody's left out as the doors close that's me.

    I expect short people to be more assertive and those reading this may use the insight to their advantage.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    How tall are you Pong?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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    Learning a sexier language than German might help.

    Although, being fluent in French never got me anywhere.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    How tall are you Pong?
    6' / 183cm. Younger generations are approaching that, but in a city with large Asian demographic it is still remarkably tall.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    You made it sound like you're a gangly giant
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  12. #11  
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    In my home Vancouver I'm "tall". In Tokyo I'm a giant. Short also is relative.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    Younger generations are approaching that
    Yeah. I find that interesting, don't you? Better nutrition, vitamins and minerals in staple foods?

    Anyway, I am a fairly tall guy then by normal standards, but then again guys around my height are also fairly common in my demographic. I am 6'4", my boss is the same height, his business partner is like 6'5" and quite a few customers are around the same height or taller. I could get women, but there are very few that I have seen that would find my peculiarities appealing once we get to know each other , and vice versa.

    One thing you can be sure of though is that personality is a huge factor. Care about what they say and feel and make them laugh and you are three quarters there. Body language plays a big part too. My ex-boss is a pretty short guy as well, but he has no trouble getting respect from others. Confidence is key. Look people straight in the eye instead of looking up at them. Speak clearly and decisively. Some shortish guys develop a personality trait people call "klein mannetjie sindroom" or small man syndrome. They overcompensate by being overly assertive, touchy and stubborn, but, being a good guy, you should be able to stop yourself short of going a bit overboard with it.

    It is absolute nonsense that height is still a criterion for being treated with respect, but such is the human race unfortunately.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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  14. #13 Re: Heightism...Are Short Males Doomed to Remain Single? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    I am 5'5, average looking and have muscles. What do you guys think? Anyone here going through what I am right now? (trouble finding dates, less respect at work, ppl treating you like a teenager, etc...)
    Nothing speaks tall, good looking and charming like bags of money.
    Religious Fundamentalist Club - Member #1.
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  15. #14 Re: Heightism...Are Short Males Doomed to Remain Single? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    I am 5'5, average looking and have muscles. I can speak German and am fairly intelligent. I always treat people with respect and can be very witty at times. I know that women prefer taller males but for me this is extremely terrible news. I wasn't even aware that my height could possibly matter at all until after my first year of college. I just assumed people didn't find me physically attractive or that I wasn't social enough (I've found that that is only part of my problem). What I've noticed is that according to 95% of girls, height is one of the primary determining factors in mate selection. 20/20 devoted a segment decades ago of a 5'0 male (a successful one at that) getting repeatedly rejected by women. There is a documentary about such heightism and in China there is a 5'3 height requirement to merely obtain a driver's license!!! Sperm banks have height requirements here in America!! Outrageous! There was even a need for an organization named NOSSA (The National Organization of Short Statured Americans) to be established. What do you guys think? Anyone here going through what I am right now? (trouble finding dates, less respect at work, ppl treating you like a teenager, etc...)
    When I'm dancing I like to look my partner in the eye without getting a crick in my neck. Just avoid superficial women. Have you tried asking out a taller woman. Many of them have a soft spot for shorter guys.

    As a last resort, I suggest you take up martial arts or boxing. That'll make you sexay and give you more confidence in yourself
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  16. #15  
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    Become a biologist and all the women will want you.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  17. #16  
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    Just got rejected by 2 girls this week for being short.
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  18. #17  
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    Valentines Day. Owie.

    How'd you get rejected? Supplicating?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  19. #18  
    Forum Masters Degree organic god's Avatar
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    Maybe it's an evolutionary thing,
    height is usually associated with strength, dominance and health.
    a lot of the traits that a prospective female would want, so that the offspring has a higher chance of survival.
    everything is mathematical.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by organic god
    Maybe it's an evolutionary thing,
    height is usually associated with strength, dominance and health.
    a lot of the traits that a prospective female would want, so that the offspring has a higher chance of survival.
    That probably has something to do with it. As recently as a few decades ago, differences in height were almost always predictable by socieconomic status, because that reflected how many calories a child would get growing up. Rich kids got enough to eat and poor kids didn't. In modern western societies you can get all the calories you need from McDonalds for just a few bucks. (Doesn't mean you'll be healthy, but you will have plenty of energy available.) So nowadays height is more predictable by heredity.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by organic god
    Maybe it's an evolutionary thing,
    height is usually associated with strength, dominance and health.
    a lot of the traits that a prospective female would want, so that the offspring has a higher chance of survival.
    It is an evolutionary thing. I still get laid but not as often as my friends. Plus, I want a relationship but all I ever have are flings. I compensate with wit, charm, intelligence, muscles and a positive attitude. Sometimes it is enough to make women appreciate me, oftentimes not. Then again I have no car and a shitty job atm and rarely leave home...so those are factors as well.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    Quote Originally Posted by organic god
    Maybe it's an evolutionary thing,
    height is usually associated with strength, dominance and health.
    a lot of the traits that a prospective female would want, so that the offspring has a higher chance of survival.
    It is an evolutionary thing. I still get laid but not as often as my friends. Plus, I want a relationship but all I ever have are flings. I compensate with wit, charm, intelligence, muscles and a positive attitude. Sometimes it is enough to make women appreciate me, oftentimes not. Then again I have no car and a shitty job atm and rarely leave home...so those are factors as well.
    Evolutionary forces are related but I would be caution you about making such a simple connection. Our environment today is radically different from what it used to be, so the cues that women are looking for will not all be exactly what they would have been hundreds of thousands of years ago. One of my professors thinks that people in modern western societies are in general much more picky about what they're looking for in a long term mate.

    Unlike hunter-gatherers, where a mother cannot successfully raise her offspring without the the help of the father, in our culture a woman can go out and get a job and more or less make as much money as a man. This puts less pressure on any given couple to stay together, so they have to make up for it with increased personal compatibility. On average it simply takes longer to find a mate if your desired qualities are that much more specific. This may be personal bias on my part but I think that probably goes even more so for people with more years of education; we really prefer a mate with comparable education, so the more we get, the fewer people with similar levels of education there are.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    in our culture a woman can go out and get a job and more or less make as much money as a man.
    I agree. A woman can get a well paying job as easily as a man but who will spend time with the child/children? Who will bond with them? There are emotional as well as financial needs to consider. Many mothers are reluctant to send children off to daycare and would much prefer being stay-at-home mothers.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Valentines Day. Owie.

    How'd you get rejected? Supplicating?
    Well one was a girl who wanted to date in the past out of being desperate but has since changed her mind. The other gal is 6'1 and looks like the prime example of convergent evolution of a giraffe and human. The giraffe needed a long neck to reach foliage, she apparently needed one so that her breath wouldn't offend normal sized humans. Anyway I'm bitter but will get over it soon enough.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    in our culture a woman can go out and get a job and more or less make as much money as a man.
    I agree. A woman can get a well paying job as easily as a man but who will spend time with the child/children? Who will bond with them? There are emotional as well as financial needs to consider. Many mothers are reluctant to send children off to daycare and would much prefer being stay-at-home mothers.
    There definitely are emotional needs to consider - but back when we were hunter gatherers and the parents had no choice but to stay together as a nuclear family, why would we need to evolve an inherent need to be concerned about the emotional benefits of nuclear families? Don't get me wrong, I understand that many women in modern societies, especially educated ones, are more cognitively aware of the benefits of a nuclear family - but achieving that does not require that a woman become a stay-at-home mom.

    If anything, it contributes to picky-ness about mates - a woman probably prefers a man who is, at the very least, in agreement with her when it comes to ideas about parenting, whatever they may be. Just based on what you said above, it sounds like you may actually prefer a woman who would stay at home with your kids. So you just cut yourself off from the significant portion of women who don't want to do that.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    I'm 5'9'', almost 5'10'' and it is EXTREMELY hard finding a guy who's taller than me. In fact, I have only ever dated 3 guys taller than me, and 2 of them were only taller by an inch at most. I can go maybe an inch shorter than me, but honestly....I couldn't date a guy who was more than an inch shorter. Maybe its society's effect on me but I'm not afraid to admit that I am kind of shallow when it comes to guys being short. Then again I'm about half a foot taller than the average American female so maybe I shouldn't talk.....same thing goes for tall people. Short people think they're out of the loop but we get made fun of just as much!
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    There definitely are emotional needs to consider - but back when we were hunter gatherers and the parents had no choice but to stay together as a nuclear family, why would we need to evolve an inherent need to be concerned about the emotional benefits of nuclear families? Don't get me wrong, I understand that many women in modern societies, especially educated ones, are more cognitively aware of the benefits of a nuclear family - but achieving that does not require that a woman become a stay-at-home mom.

    If anything, it contributes to picky-ness about mates - a woman probably prefers a man who is, at the very least, in agreement with her when it comes to ideas about parenting, whatever they may be. Just based on what you said above, it sounds like you may actually prefer a woman who would stay at home with your kids. So you just cut yourself off from the significant portion of women who don't want to do that.
    Human sexual preferences are incredibly complicated, there are growing numbers of people who make the decision not to have kids at all, a behavior that would never have been an issue in a pre-birthcontrol society.

    Relationships are strange, I was talking to my bf last week about children, and he would absolutely under no circumstances ever consider raising a child. I on the other hand kind of like the idea, biological children are obviously out of our grasp as a homosexual couple but I wonder how many same sex couples get together with subconscious assessments of their partners as potential reproductive mates even though they must realize at a conscious level that producing offspring is impossible.
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  27. #26  
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    Evolutionary forces are related but I would be caution you about making such a simple connection. Our environment today is radically different from what it used to be, so the cues that women are looking for will not all be exactly what they would have been hundreds of thousands of years ago. One of my professors thinks that people in modern western societies are in general much more picky about what they're looking for in a long term mate.

    Unlike hunter-gatherers, where a mother cannot successfully raise her offspring without the the help of the father, in our culture a woman can go out and get a job and more or less make as much money as a man. This puts less pressure on any given couple to stay together, so they have to make up for it with increased personal compatibility. On average it simply takes longer to find a mate if your desired qualities are that much more specific. This may be personal bias on my part but I think that probably goes even more so for people with more years of education; we really prefer a mate with comparable education, so the more we get, the fewer people with similar levels of education there are.
    Although as humans we can say how advanced we are and how much we have evolved past our humble roots and are not purely instinct driven. The simple fact still remains that when it comes to choosing a mate.

    Tall, strong, healthy, shiny looking things are good
    Short, frail and sick things are bad.

    So yes the woman can get a job and modern society blah blah blah. But when it comes to having sex with someone they prefer the tall guy. That is just the way it is.
    everything is mathematical.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by organic god
    Short, frail and sick things are bad.
    How many men in your typical modern westernized society look thin and sickly? Wander any undergraduate campus and you've got strapping young men all over the place. Even short men are clearly healthy - gottspieler says he works out, and if he's obviously muscled he's clearly in good shape - it takes a lot of energy to support significant muscle mass. All I'm saying is that height certainly plays a part, but it is just one part among many considerations.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith

    How many men in your typical modern westernized society look thin and sickly? Wander any undergraduate campus and you've got strapping young men all over the place.
    That's what got me through my bach so far
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    picky-ness
    What I've found, through marriage, is that being marriageable and compatible is all about letting go one's picky-ness. We build up this illusion that Mr/Ms Right is a rare individual with elusive set of traits, so we can put off just doing it. When I realized my pickiness was basically protective mechanism to continue single lifestyle, it kinda evaporated. I began to look at women, thinking, "Maybe I could work with that."

    In my case I was pretty loose to begin with. The insight though, rendered me marriageable because it enabled my devotion. A devoted spouse gives slack and more despite faults or incompatibilities. This is an end in itself.

    So I think a short guy just needs to find a woman who is ready to devote her self, and be of like mind. What other traits one or the other have are less important.


    Besides marriage, any guy can play around. Many gals are real suckers for an energetic rogue. It's hilarious what swinging the arms about for no purpose accomplishes. Try it!
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    But when it comes to having sex with someone they prefer the tall guy. That is just the way it is.
    I wonder how many women are this shallow?
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  32. #31  
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    I am 5'5, average looking and have muscles.
    Most humans have muscles. Luckily your height makes you stand out (if you do a frequency distribution of height according to infinitely small steps).


    So not like this.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    I am 5'5, average looking and have muscles.
    Most humans have muscles.
    Wrong way coffee!
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    I am 5'5, average looking and have muscles.
    Most humans have muscles. Luckily your height makes you stand out (if you do a frequency distribution of height according to infinitely small steps).


    So not like this.
    Wow. Nothing like landing right in the middle of the distribution. Call me Mister Average.
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  35. #34  
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    Being average is a safe choice. It probably means that there is nothing wrong with you.

    If you are too tall, you could have a genetic disorder.

    If you are too short , you could have the same.

    Someone pointed out to me the other week that Kylie Minogue is almost technically a midget.

    Yet she is the hottest woman on the planet (Fig. 1).




    Figure1 Kylie Minogue is hot.

    Apparently silly women think the same about people like Tom Cruise (personal communication).

    Being short might not be the shortcoming we are looking for here. Maybe it is another genetic or cultural disadvantage?
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    Height is it, I believe...I mean I'm sure some girls simply don't find me attractive but the majority tell me upfront "I don't do the short thing" or "I don't date short guys"...and even when reading ads on craigslist you see it in the descriptions of what the women there are looking for: "looking for a guy NO SHORTER THAN 5'11"..."Looking for a TALL, smart, handome partner"..."my match must be AT LEAST 5'8"....this is why I oftentimes hate the majority of women....it's like most of them are living in an intellectual stone age. "Me like tall guy..makes him look big and strong." They are ignorant of the fact that MUSCLES are what make people strong and protective, not height. Height has no apparent evolutionary advantage in this day and age. And what about intelligence? Most women could give a shit if they are with someone who is smart. Men can be vain too but to reject a person based on height alone is ridiculous. I would personally never reject a girl for being a bit overweight and not looking like Angelina Jolie. And most certainly I would never consider turning someone down based on height.
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    Height's an issue. So is weight, penis size, class, personality, style, background, etc. I've learned that no matter what I have, I'll always bemoan something I don't. This helps me be realistic, and realize that I often exaggerate my shortcomings.

    One thing you have to remember is while there are patterns (women who like tall guys), there are also exceptions. Don't ignore the exceptions or push them away with bitterness.

    Also, for *some* women, your height could also be an excuse for some other reason to reject you which they don't quite understand. In my last relationship I ended up getting dumped/rejected for another guy because of the reason, 'he just feels right.'

    ...clearly, some things you'll just never understand. People don't have a list of criteria that they use to check off for each potential mate - you convince them or you don't based on a variety of factors - anything from the setting and context in which you approach them to whether or not they got enough sleep the past night.

    What's important to ask yourself is whether or not your internal views about your position in life are somehow affecting the way you come across to others. Unfortunately, if you're in the midst of a dry spell, you've got another thing working against you.
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  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Being average is a safe choice. It probably means that there is nothing wrong with you.

    If you are too tall, you could have a genetic disorder.

    If you are too short , you could have the same.

    Someone pointed out to me the other week that Kylie Minogue is almost technically a midget.

    Yet she is the hottest woman on the planet (Fig. 1).




    Figure1 Kylie Minogue is hot.

    Apparently silly women think the same about people like Tom Cruise (personal communication).

    Being short might not be the shortcoming we are looking for here. Maybe it is another genetic or cultural disadvantage?
    Conclusions are well-supported by the evidence, but needs more figures.
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  39. #38  
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    I concur.
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  40. #39  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Anyway, the example mentioned of heightism here is just shitty science.

    It is anecdata. That is anecdotal evidence which is confused with proper evidence.

    What needs to be done is to find a causal and statistical correlation between height and preference of females.

    I predict that you can't find any.

    Why?

    Because I can see absolutely no evolutionary trend towards increased height in the human species. That means that there is no innate desire among the females to just breed with tall guys.

    What we at the most have here is cultural trend where people are being judge on perfection in some nations of the world, such as the USA, and maybe some other western nations..

    However, that doesn't even mean that there is actually selection for height going on here. Even the ugliest person manages to find a mate to have children with since there are plenty of other ugly people also looking for a mate. And there are actually people not fixated on exterior.

    In effect, I actually predict the opposite if there is a directional selective pressure. There is a positive selection for ugly/short people in the western society.

    Why?

    Because beautiful people do not want to ruin their looks by having children (on average more than ugly people).

    Straightforward evolutionary thought.

    And of course exactly the opposite of what most people think will happen. They automatically think that the beautiful, strong etc will have an advantage.

    Obviously this isn't true, because there are costs attached to being beautiful and strong, which sometimes aren't obvious.

    What is really advantageous is of course, to be beautiful and strong enough.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    cultural trend where people are being judge on perfection in some nations of the world, such as the USA, and maybe some other western nations..
    So if Hollywood was based in Osaka men and women worldwide would say, "Sorry, but you're just too hairy."
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  42. #41  
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    Anyway, the example mentioned of heightism here is just shitty science.

    It is anecdata. That is anecdotal evidence which is confused with proper evidence.

    What needs to be done is to find a causal and statistical correlation between height and preference of females.

    I predict that you can't find any.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqXK6IY5gPg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRCQJ...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR3YR...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22gtS...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42HvY...eature=related


    Also, the outrage from Randy Newman's hit song "Short people got no reason to live". Why would this upset so many people if heightism didn't exist?
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  43. #42  
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    Try to find an actual published statistical survey, gottspieler.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Try to find an actual published statistical survey, gottspieler.
    It is briefly mentioned near the end of Matt Ridley's The Red Queen. Here is a link to an article:

    http://www.slate.com/id/2148759

    Plus, I simply know from experience. I am short and look young and am therefore treated as a young man. Youth oftentimes betrays inexperience to the uneducated. I don't need a scientific study to prove that.
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  45. #44  
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    You are still just one datapoint. No matter how central this datapoint is in your life.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

    - Arnaud Amalric

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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    You are still just one datapoint. No matter how central this datapoint is in your life.
    What about the evidence above? What about the opinions of several evolutionary biologists? What about the study above?
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    I don't know about dating, but job application has been well studied and conclusions damn short men.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  48. #47  
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    You can't make a baby with a job.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  49. #48  
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    It's important to understand more than just averages. What is the variance, the standard deviation, the confidence interval? A few data points on the high end can drive an average misleadingly high for a given population. That's why I asked for an actual statistical survey. Even in the link you gave, gottspieler, it's stated in the very beginning of the article that the chances that your one friend who's taller than you will have a higher salary than you is practically a coin toss. It's only when you average large numbers of people that the difference yields a statistically noticeable signal. The larger sample size it takes to find a pattern, the weaker that pattern is.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    I think I have seen statistics on how people with lower salary have more children.

    So that would then predict that tall people have more difficulty in obtaining a proper sexual mate.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  51. #50  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    I think I have seen statistics on how people with lower salary have more children.

    So that would then predict that tall people have more difficulty in obtaining a proper sexual mate.
    You're probably thinking of the demographic transition. As people's wealth increases they're investing more in each child instead of investing in more children. Having two children you send to grad school instead of four you just send to undergrad or high school, for example. Usually, though, once a population completely finishes going through the demographic transition, people at all salary levels follow that model. You usually see the disparity in reproductive behavior in the midst of the transition process.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    Hi guys,

    I'm a 39yo 5'7" man in Australia. Im this country, most men are around 5'9" making my stature below the national average.

    I've experienced quite allot of negativity concerning my height throughout my life.

    Even as a 39yo, I do find myself on the edge of social aggression, just to maintain the respect that taller men take for granted. I've often been told by friends that allot of aggressive people are (often) shorter. My theory is simple. Insecurity.

    A kind of insecurity not emanating from the victim, but forged over years of being patronised, bullied and underestimated physically.

    From an evolutionary point of view, males would compete for females, based on what females desire. In the same way companies compete to produce products that better (sell).

    So what sells (or sold) with women? Perhaps in our distant past, confidence, physical strength would sell. Being bullied and short, would certainly destroy genuine confidence. So the lack of stature and confidence would marginalise shorter man socially. This in turn, would make them undesirable to women, who from personal experience want a mate that is (well liked) and certainly not an outcast.

    Yes we're at the cusp of a new evolutionary progression....But only at the cusp. We're still carriers of those old genes that equate stature with strength and security.

    Women do want men who are able to defend them and their offspring well. Even if in our modern society, strength isn't as important as a secure job, women are still carrying genes that tell them otherwise. This is a genetic mechanism, which will disappear as long as we continue to remain 'civilised' for (millions) of years to come.
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    Last edited by mustafa korkutata; June 12th, 2013 at 12:06 AM.
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    Dannos...work with what you have. I'm learning to do this, though it can be hard to let go of your insecurities sometimes. Build up your positive qualities. I, for example, am going on a diet in order to showcase my muscles and I will also work on being my funny, intelligent self in lieu of the self-absorbed, bitter dwarf I have become due to overanalyzing everything. You see, I can see myself in a different light when I think positively. And so can you.
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  55. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannos39
    From an evolutionary point of view... undesirable
    A million years perhaps of women choosing mates; the species height hasn't changed much. We're not counting multivitamins and milk programmes of course.

    The fact that you're short and you're here proves those genes just kept winning every step of the way.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  56. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannos39
    Hi guys,

    I'm a 39yo 5'7" man in Australia. Im this country, most men are around 5'9" making my stature below the national average.

    I've experienced quite allot of negativity concerning my height throughout my life.

    Even as a 39yo, I do find myself on the edge of social aggression, just to maintain the respect that taller men take for granted. I've often been told by friends that allot of aggressive people are (often) shorter. My theory is simple. Insecurity.

    A kind of insecurity not emanating from the victim, but forged over years of being patronised, bullied and underestimated physically.

    From an evolutionary point of view, males would compete for females, based on what females desire. In the same way companies compete to produce products that better (sell).

    So what sells (or sold) with women? Perhaps in our distant past, confidence, physical strength would sell. Being bullied and short, would certainly destroy genuine confidence. So the lack of stature and confidence would marginalise shorter man socially. This in turn, would make them undesirable to women, who from personal experience want a mate that is (well liked) and certainly not an outcast.

    Yes we're at the cusp of a new evolutionary progression....But only at the cusp. We're still carriers of those old genes that equate stature with strength and security.

    Women do want men who are able to defend them and their offspring well. Even if in our modern society, strength isn't as important as a secure job, women are still carrying genes that tell them otherwise. This is a genetic mechanism, which will disappear as long as we continue to remain 'civilised' for (millions) of years to come.
    See this post in this very thread.
    http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...=171184#171184

    Kylie minogue, the quintessential Australian woman is technically almost a midget. That didn't stop her from achieving fame, glory, and maybe one day even children, so that also she can be an evolutionary success story. Until that day we fervently hope that her ovaries will notice our testicles and not of someone else. Although my wife's ovaries might intervene.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

    - Arnaud Amalric

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  57. #56  
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    Become a Sperm Donor

    How to Qualify ~ Finder's Fee ~ Donor Screening ~ Benefits ~ Legal Issues ~ Anonymity and the Identity-Release� Program


    Please review all of the following information before completing our online application.


    How to Qualify

    We welcome men of all ethnicities and backgrounds as donors. You are eligible to start the donor screening process if you meet the following requirements:

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    � can visit our downtown Berkeley office, at least once a week, between the hours of 8:00am and 4:00pm by appointment only Monday through Friday
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    � are able to provide medical information about both sides of your genetic family
    � have no chronic health problems

    Fucking Assholes.
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  58. #57  
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    Logically being shorter is actually superior. Am I the only person that notices many children are practically indestructable? As a child I could run a mile on nothing but pure willpower, but today I cannot run such a distance even though I train often (meanwhile someone I know that's 5'1, male, can run two miles easily with less training than I have) Similarly, shorter people suffer from fewer back issues because there is more muscle fiber in a smaller space. The taller you are, the more that muscle fiber is "stretched" out, and generally the weaker it is proportionally.

    Indeed, the strongest man in the world (by weight) is even shorter than my 5'8 stature. As far as efficiency goes, I wish I was 5 or 4 feet tall. At those heights you're capable of far more agility (and speed, at least with martial arts) in general than your taller counterparts. However, height IS a major factor in overall strength. Proportionally we're all weaker than ants, but overall we can crush them just by stepping on them. But I must emphasize that we evolved from monkeys, not gorillas. We're reaching gorilla height without being anywhere near as strong. This is a BAD thing.

    Regarding sperm donation, what's disturbing is that institutions (or is it a federal regulation, which would be even worse?) feel justified imposing social values on every member of society. It's standard procedure to have basic physical data about the donor, so it can and should be left up to the person choosing a sample to decide what is desirable.

    Overall, the choosing of taller people is something influenced entirely by society. It's retarded, it's wrong, and it's not advantageous. Although it has been at some points in our history, because taller people can run faster for short bursts. Homo Erectus, for example, was taller than its predecessor.
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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  59. #58 Re: Heightism...Are Short Males Doomed to Remain Single? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    I am 5'5, average looking and have muscles. I can speak German and am fairly intelligent. I always treat people with respect and can be very witty at times. I know that women prefer taller males but for me this is extremely terrible news. I wasn't even aware that my height could possibly matter at all until after my first year of college. I just assumed people didn't find me physically attractive or that I wasn't social enough (I've found that that is only part of my problem). What I've noticed is that according to 95% of girls, height is one of the primary determining factors in mate selection. 20/20 devoted a segment decades ago of a 5'0 male (a successful one at that) getting repeatedly rejected by women. There is a documentary about such heightism and in China there is a 5'3 height requirement to merely obtain a driver's license!!! Sperm banks have height requirements here in America!! Outrageous! There was even a need for an organization named NOSSA (The National Organization of Short Statured Americans) to be established. What do you guys think? Anyone here going through what I am right now? (trouble finding dates, less respect at work, ppl treating you like a teenager, etc...)

    I think the mistake that a lot of people are making is believing that heightism is only about being short. Heightism is discrimination for being "too short" or for being "too tall" it cuts both ways. There are many problems associated with being either in terms of social acceptance, bullying and ridicule.

    I was too tall in primary school, I loved and was great at sports and could run very fast, but most people put it down to the fact that I was double the height of my peers (which in retrospect was about right). The opposing netball team lost every single time because they could not outrun or outpass me.

    I started judo and found that I could just flip the kids half my height over in seconds, again my height had advantages. I got into bars and clubs at age 13 no worries unlike my friends.

    Disadvantages are that I got hassled by much older men when I was 11-12 as they thought I was older than my tiny years.

    Short people have their own set of problems too, but there are proven solutions (a best seller among Asians, notorious for their shorter stature) if growing taller is what you want check out www.fromhowtocan.com.

    The good news is that this is proven 100% money back guarantee solution which can increase your height by 2-6 inches in weeks which works by increasing your Human Growth Hormone levels by up to 300% naturally. fromhowtocan.

    PS. Most celebrities when you meet them in real life are much shorter than you imagine so I think being shorter may give you an edge in the determination to succeed!! just an observation.
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  60. #59  
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    Ha...well I'm dating someone now. I just get bitter and complain sometimes (this thread is pretty old).
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    Good for you!

    I am 5.8 which is fairly tall for a woman and yes, I have dated men that are an inch shorter than me, but like most I must be a victim of evolution myself!

    There is this inbuilt drive/preference to find a partner who is physically larger than me!
    1. it makes me feel protected to have a big male next to me (not that I need protecting)
    2. it also makes me look less big (I have a large build, not fat, but large hands and feet)
    and I don't like looking 'bigger' than my man for some reason
    3. there is such a thing as a good looking couple, sort of a prefered balance and when you look 'strange' together you tend to feel 'strange'

    Obviously I realise that none of these are good reasons to reject a man based on his height and I don't know that I would, but the preference is quite strong and not really logical, I can't find a really good reason as to why I feel this way!
    Evil or divine, we are the last in line!
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    Haha..well I am for the most part bigger and stronger (210 pounds at my height is huge..and I bench 370 x 2) than most people even though I'm short...so the protection thing doesn't hold up...
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    I see!

    Like I said, I don't quite understand it either, it's just a feeling and I have to say I feel a little embarrassed to admit to it, but it's just 'there'!

    It's a very deep seated thing and I think we would find that the men who are shorter that have tall girlfriends quite often make up for the 'difference' by having a lot of money and success or fame (Tom Cruise for example, though I have never found him attractive...he's creepy )

    Though Nicole Kidman seemed to go out with a lot of shorter guys, her husband is shorter as well!

    I wish the hight thing was a 'none issue' for me because I find that a lot of shorter guys are very attractive!

    So this 'peference' bites me in the butt :?
    Evil or divine, we are the last in line!
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    Get over it. Give the shorties a chance. We might rock your world.
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    Ok, OK....I guess you never, ever know, if you never ever go...there!

    I shall adjust my vantage point and have a look below the surface hehe
    Evil or divine, we are the last in line!
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    Haha...I'll bring you to your knees. Then we'll be at eye-level.
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    OMG too funny ...I almost lost my coffee then...
    Evil or divine, we are the last in line!
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    Like younger guys? lol

    Are u hot?


    hahahahaha
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  69. #68  
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    ...I have been known to go out with younger guys...a lot of men around my age group are let's say a bit 'settled' and boring!

    I guess 'hot' would be in the eye of the beholder :wink: ...but as they say : I go alright ...fancy tall brunettes?
    Evil or divine, we are the last in line!
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  70. #69  
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    Oh yea
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    Exelent!
    Evil or divine, we are the last in line!
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    Would you really want to be with someone who couldn't see past one physical attribute? Perhaps if such discrimination does exist, it is a beneficial way of eliminating women who are so shallow as to reject a guy purely on the basis of height, neglecting other such crucial factors as personality, sense of humour, etc.

    Best wishes,

    Tridimity :wink:
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    You are definitely right tridimity and I think that given the chance to get to know someone this 'heightism' probably looses ground, but when being asked out by a man we don't really know his height can often be 'grounds' to dismiss him!

    ........I spoke to a few girlfriends about this and unfortunately they all feel the same (pretty much), we also agreed that it's really unfounded and unfair, but ce la vie
    Evil or divine, we are the last in line!
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