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Thread: Homosexuals

  1. #1 Homosexuals 
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    Are you really born gay?

    Ive heard both yes and no.

    It just seems too much of a social thing than a gene thing to me.

    I just need a yes or a no and a little bit of convincing evidence.


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    If you're asking the question, "is there a gay gene?", the answer is, "not that we know of". Many proponents of the GLBT movement rely on arguments based on innate sexuality, which most studies have quietly cast a dark shadow over. In fact, even Peter Tatchell, an Australian-born British gay activist who often disrupts Christian religious services, admitted there was no such thing as a "gay gene". All of the liberal bastions for equality may espouse the theory for genetic sexuality, but as of yet, they are backed with zero credibility.

    As for your question, I think it's difficult to answer with a distinct "yes" or "no". I lean toward "partially both", usually tending to see it as the outcome to failed or unnatural nurturing.

    I am no scientist, mind you, but I am opinionated. I have also come across studies which show gay people to be more likely to be left-handed, have counter-clockwise hair whorls, and have index fingers which match or exceed the length of their ring fingers.

    Thankfully, I have none of those traits!


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    There is probably some sort of genetic predisposition to homosexuality, but for the most part, it is determined by the person's environment.
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    To answer that honestly we should first note what we'd like to believe. No offense to gays, but this might be like the question of being born alcoholic or obese. Those who wish gays to behave straight will stress choice. One could act straight if one really wanted to. Gays, I suppose, would like the best of both "yes" & "no". They'd like credit for owning their own lives (i.e. pride), yet they'd like the good treatment afforded victims of circumstance (not that gays get much of either). So gays should vacillate, as convenient.


    I think a "gay gene" that expresses occasionally would be successful; homosexuality should occur in the human population. In other words I predict gays. So if gays did not exist I'd wonder why not.
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    I seem to recall this topic on this forum once before


    anyways it's related to population densities- as densities increase, so does percentage of gayness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    I seem to recall this topic on this forum once before


    anyways it's related to population densities- as densities increase, so does percentage of gayness.
    I saw your name somewhere else. You have a brain. You impress me.

    Impress me some more. Why would population density increase cause an increase of gayness?

    Maybe you should be more specific in your statements? In increase in total population? An increase in the population of girls compared to boys? An increase in the population of boys compared to girls?

    Are you thinking that if the total population goes up while resources stay the same, that gayness goes up as a safety mechanism which slows new births so the population can still survive on the resources available?
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  8. #7 Re: Homosexuals 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon not Ron
    Are you really born gay?

    Ive heard both yes and no.

    It just seems too much of a social thing than a gene thing to me.

    I just need a yes or a no and a little bit of convincing evidence.
    sometimes.
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    It's funny, to contradict myself there actually is a correlation between a history of sexual abuse and turning gay as well. So that answer sometimes is pretty damn good.

    So anyways, it's a population control method as far as population densities are concerned. It's seen in insects and small mammals. If you step back and think about it, it makes alot of sense; if your population density spikes, it makes sense that the generation directly involved orespecially the generation right after the spike would have a higher percentage of gay animals. It prevents breeding from these animals, for the most part.

    However, in primates, there are hug social rammifications. Pygmy Chimpanzees are a classic example of frivilous sexual encounters, usually female on female. They handle everything from fights to greetings with sex, somewhat like people do.

    People, however, have only had a recent emergence of sexual acceptance, but it's still not acceptable in many parts of the world. If not for the mitigating social impacts, I'd imagine we'd see a rather smooth curve increasing with population density.

    Mind you, some girls just do it to be trendy and that's okay too I guess.
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    The widespread occurence of homosexuality in many (most?) animal species suggests it has a strong genetic component. Like most behviour that is genetically controlled it is unlikely that a single gene is responsible, or that the complex of genes involved is not influenced by epigenetic and environmental factors. That, however, would not take away the fundamental genetic source of the homosexual inclination.
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    So, do you think that if there was suddenly a huge drop in population size that a lot of homosexuals would turn straight?
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    Most human traits do not have one genetic or environmental cause.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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    No, the percentage of homosexuals would decrease in the generation immediately following the generation experiencing the dramatic density loss.


    Yes, obviously there is a genetic component as well since basically all we do has a genetic component.
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    The genetic studies done on homosexuality have been controversial. There were two done by Dr. Dean Hamer that reported to find genetic linkage of male homosexuality to a region of the X Chromosome. This however, was contradicted by another study that found no linkage to that same region. Given that Dr. Hamer, also claimed to have found genetic linkage to belief in god based on a significance of 1% or something like that (so insignificant that it would never be accepted in any journal) I'm rather skeptical of his findings. I'm not that familiar with the results of twin studies.

    A lot of the biological evidence resolves around neurobiology studies of homosexuality. The difficulty here, I think is demonstrating whether the neurobiology of this behavior demonstrates any sort of genetic component and if so, to what degree the genetic component plays a role.

    So, overall conclusion as to whether or not it is genetic:

    Don't know.
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    I have no desire to go through my usual spiel on this topic. It is a combination of genetic factors and environmental. This is not only socializing factors but also maternal in utero factors. This is supported by studies that have shown that there are correlations between birth order, and twins with homosexuality. It is not purely genetic nor is it purely environmental.

    Moreover, even if something came about as a result of socialization this does not make it a choice.

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...hlight=#145930
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    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid

    So anyways, it's a population control method as far as population densities are concerned. It's seen in insects and small mammals. If you step back and think about it, it makes alot of sense; if your population density spikes, it makes sense that the generation directly involved orespecially the generation right after the spike would have a higher percentage of gay animals. It prevents breeding from these animals, for the most part.
    So you are saying that you think the increase in homosexuality is ONLY due to some urge to restrict new births in an overpopulated or resource starved society?

    What if there was some other reason? Scientists are supposed to speculate.

    Are you guys familiar with computer motherboards? computer motherboards are usually installed in a computer case with a post looking fitting. The post is threaded like a bolt on the bottom so it can go into the computer case. The post is hollow on top and threaded so the motherboard can be put on top of the post, then a screw goes through the motherboard into the hollow top of the post.

    Let's say we have 12 of these motherboard mounting posts. We buy a new computer case and put in the motherboard. The motherboard only needs 8 motherboard posts though so there are 4 motherboard posts left over. What happens to the leftover motherboard posts?

    The left over motherboard posts are lonely. They are supposed to screw into the motherboard, but the motherboard doesn't need them. The motherboard is all filled up.

    What will the lonely motherboard posts do? They do have an option if you think about it.

    The posts are designed to be screwed down into the computer case. But they also have a hollowed out top where the motherboard screw goes into. So two of the lonely motherboard mounting posts with no computer case holes to screw themselves into, could screw themselves into the hollow top of the other two motherboard mounting posts. Then they would feel like they were doing their job of screwing into something.

    What about the motherboard mounting posts that are having another motherboard mounting post screwed into their top? They are behaving like a computer case aren't they? Those motherboard mounting posts are behaving like a computer case by accepting another motherboard mounting post being screwed into their top.

    -----

    Is that too obscure of a hint for another reason why the homosexual population in a society might increase?
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    yes asking what else there could be is how science works.

    Strangely enough, it's an abnormal brainstate from the majority of the population. For example, when a straight man sees a woman, certain parts of his brain light up. Those same parts, as I understand it, light up when a homosexual man sees another man. Strangely, there was a study done that demonstrated through MRI that homosexual brains work the same as pedophile brains as far as attraction is concerned, with the exception of course of pedophiles liking children.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbokohutu
    What happens to the leftover motherboard posts?

    The left over motherboard posts are lonely.

    So two of the lonely motherboard mounting posts with no computer case holes to screw themselves into, could screw themselves into the hollow top of the other two motherboard mounting posts. Then they would feel like they were doing their job of screwing into something.

    Is that too obscure of a hint for another reason why the homosexual population in a society might increase?
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    yes asking what else there could be is how science works.

    Strangely enough, it's an abnormal brainstate from the majority of the population. For example, when a straight man sees a woman, certain parts of his brain light up. Those same parts, as I understand it, light up when a homosexual man sees another man. Strangely, there was a study done that demonstrated through MRI that homosexual brains work the same as pedophile brains as far as attraction is concerned, with the exception of course of pedophiles liking children.
    What do you mean "work the same" and do you have a reference on that?
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    From what I have read, the symmetry of homosexual brain is similar to that of the opposite sex.

    Ivanka Savic and Per Lindström, of the Department of Clinical Neuroscience at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, now report that the brains of heterosexual men and homosexual women are slightly asymmetric—the right hemisphere is larger than the left—and the brains of gay men and straight women are not.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0617151845.htm

    And brains of homosexual men respond to testosterone derivatives like brains of women.
    In 2005, Dr. Savic was the lead researcher on another neuroscientific investigation about the “gay brain.” The title of that article, also published by PNAS, is Brain response to putative phermones in homosexual men.

    In this 2005 study, it was discovered — as the title of the article says — that “the brains of homosexual men respond more like those of women when reacting to a chemical derived from the male sex hormone.”
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7791888/

    I recall reading elsewhere that prepartum changes in hormonal milieu in early pregnancy may have an effect on fetal development in ways that might affect sexual orientation

    Low Uterine Testosterone Levels Determine Homosexual Behavior in Males


    Quote Originally Posted by mbokohutu
    Is that too obscure of a hint for another reason why the homosexual population in a society might increase?
    Not enough computer case holes?
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    cool info sam!
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    Quote Originally Posted by samcdkey

    Quote Originally Posted by mbokohutu
    Is that too obscure of a hint for another reason why the homosexual population in a society might increase?
    Not enough computer case holes?
    Is that an intelligent response or a joke? You never know on the internet.
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    I think he was actually pointing out the uncoolness of a piss poor analogy masquerading as a joke in a debate among peers

    but then I could be wrong about guessing his intent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    I seem to recall this topic on this forum once before

    anyways it's related to population densities- as densities increase, so does percentage of gayness.
    If such a trend were to be true, it could not be credited to genetics. Still, you make a very intriguing point.

    If homosexuality by percentage were to increase by population density, the reasons must be purely environmental. Perhaps the natural underrepresentation which occurs in densely populated areas is to blame. The smaller the community, the greater one's self-worth, influence, and public attention; the larger the community, the lesser one's self-worth, influence, and public attention. As a way to compensate for less devout attention from others and less perceived self-worth, homosexuality may be resorted to in order to help alleviate such troubles, as gays often tend to exhibit extreme cases of self-love. It may also explain why homosexuals are thought of as narcissistic, materialistic, and highly self-concerned.

    It is a shame I do not have tools of testing at my disposal. May a well-thought man please evaluate my thoughts? Sure, it may be armchair speculation, but it's worth a second look!
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    okay please tell me you didn't just make my population dynamics comments into something about morality of homosexuality and self worth

    Also, any biological factor is ultimately governed on some level by genetics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    I think he was actually pointing out the uncoolness of a piss poor analogy masquerading as a joke in a debate among peers

    but then I could be wrong about guessing his intent.
    This place is full of assholes isn't it? I registered this morning, created some friendly posts, and one asshole is calling me Happeh, and this asshole is saying what I write is piss poor.

    I never even met or talked to this asshole before, and he is speaking to me like that.
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    okay please tell me you didn't just make my population dynamics comments into something about morality of homosexuality and self worth.
    I have no interest in discussing the morality behind homosexuality in a biology subforum, so please do not accuse me of such. My words may not treat it with the same kindness they would heterosexuality, but that is merely due to my innate appreciation for the latter, which was responsible for my birth and my upraising.

    As for self-worth, it may not be a biological concept, but it is certainly a social trend worth noting. Out of respect for our location, though, I will revert to the original discussion. I was merely curious as to how a percentage increase in homosexuality by population density could be credited to genetics. Such a scenario for breeding homosexuality seems wholly environmental to me.

    But hey, what do I know!
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pride
    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    I seem to recall this topic on this forum once before

    anyways it's related to population densities- as densities increase, so does percentage of gayness.
    If such a trend were to be true, it could not be credited to genetics. Still, you make a very intriguing point.

    If homosexuality by percentage were to increase by population density, the reasons must be purely environmental.!
    Why? If you say "must", you have to explain why if you are supposed to be a scientist.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pride
    Perhaps the natural underrepresentation which occurs in densely populated areas is to blame. The smaller the community, the greater one's self-worth, influence, and public attention; the larger the community, the lesser one's self-worth, influence, and public attention. As a way to compensate for less devout attention from others and less perceived self-worth, homosexuality may be resorted to in order to help alleviate such troubles, as gays often tend to exhibit extreme cases of self-love. It may also explain why homosexuals are thought of as narcissistic, materialistic, and highly self-concerned.
    That is a load of psychological baloney.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pride
    It is a shame I do not have tools of testing at my disposal. May a well-thought man please evaluate my thoughts? Sure, it may be armchair speculation, but it's worth a second look!
    I think an intelligence test would be more in order.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pride

    But hey, what do I know!
    Let's see. If I was a rude jerk talking to a complete stranger I just met, I would say:

    You don't know anything you piss poor excuse for a human being.
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  30. #29  
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    Why? If you say "must", you have to explain why if you are supposed to be a scientist.
    Pardon me! I am definitely not a scientist, and I believe I admitted as much in my first post in this thread. Let us never call The Pride a scientist, for it would be a tumultuous lie!

    My reasoning for why such a scenario "must" be environmental is simple: increasing the population of a given community has no bearing whatsoever on a potential baby's genetics; it does, however, influence that baby's future environment and daily encounters. Besides, I am not of the opinion that my argument is necessarily correct, which is why I invited any and all well-read biologists to assess my thoughts. It won't hurt my feelings if you prove why I am wrong; it will, however, annoy me if you say what I'm wrong about, but fail to say why.

    I think an intelligence test would be more in order.
    Most rank me in between 130 and 140. I am certainly no genius, if that's what you wanted to hear.
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    mbokohutu there are lots of nice people here, but a bad post is a bad post no matter how you cut it. I may come off as an ass, but I usually am just calling a spade a spade, even if I am rather extreme in my views at times.

    but a genetic predisposition to said effect from said environmental cause is entirely probably right pride?


    Most rank me in between 130 and 140. I am certainly no genius, if that's what you wanted to hear.
    don't brag some of us do just fine with 80
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbokohutu
    [This place is full of assholes isn't it? I registered this morning, created some friendly posts, and one asshole is calling me Happeh, and this asshole is saying what I write is piss poor.
    I never even met or talked to this asshole before, and he is speaking to me like that.
    mbokoutu, calm down. Your analogy was not a very good one. And you took an exceptionally long post to deliver it. All in all it did not seem to add anything to the discussion and arguably was distracting.

    Calling it 'piss poor' was very direct, but it was arguably accurate. Let's focus on the topic, not on the person.
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    but a genetic predisposition to said effect from said environmental cause is entirely probable right pride?
    Entirely.

    don't brag some of us do just fine with 80
    Funny! I've always believed clean humor to be an indicator of intelligence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    mbokohutu there are lots of nice people here, but a bad post is a bad post no matter how you cut it. I may come off as an ass, but I usually am just calling a spade a spade, even if I am rather extreme in my views at times.
    Racist too huh? Didn't "Calling a Spade a Spade" go out with slavery?
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by mbokohutu
    [This place is full of assholes isn't it? I registered this morning, created some friendly posts, and one asshole is calling me Happeh, and this asshole is saying what I write is piss poor.
    I never even met or talked to this asshole before, and he is speaking to me like that.
    mbokoutu, calm down. Your analogy was not a very good one.
    Have you considered the possibility that your intellectual capabilities are not strong enough to handle the analogy? That the analogy makes complete sense to a person with the intelligence to think about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    And you took an exceptionally long post to deliver it. All in all it did not seem to add anything to the discussion and arguably was distracting.
    See? You don't have the intelligence. You are like a schoolchild. "But Mommy! The teacher told me to read THREE pages from the book. THREE PAGES is sooooo long Mommy!"

    What loser goes to a science forum and complains about the length of reading material? I have technical books laying around here that are 500 pages long. And you are complainig like a woman about a few paragraphs?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Let's focus on the topic, not on the person.
    Let's focus on the rude asshole in the hopes that we can show him that asshole behavior and speech is rewarded by being called an asshole, and polite and courteous speech is rewarded with polite and courteous speech.
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pride

    I have no interest in discussing the morality behind homosexuality in a biology subforum, so please do not accuse me of such. My words may not treat it with the same kindness they would heterosexuality
    In other words, your cult would decide and provide what you think of homosexuality?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pride
    If homosexuality by percentage were to increase by population density, the reasons must be purely environmental. Perhaps the natural underrepresentation which occurs in densely populated areas is to blame. The smaller the community, the greater one's self-worth, influence, and public attention; the larger the community, the lesser one's self-worth, influence, and public attention. As a way to compensate for less devout attention from others and less perceived self-worth, homosexuality may be resorted to in order to help alleviate such troubles, as gays often tend to exhibit extreme cases of self-love. It may also explain why homosexuals are thought of as narcissistic, materialistic, and highly self-concerned.
    What evidence are you basing these rather firm assertions on? I've never met a homosexual with these traits, but I wouldn't consider that anecdotal evidence to be "data".

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pride
    Funny! I've always believed clean humor to be an indicator of intelligence.
    I doubt there's any such correlation. I love puerile humour and I'm certainly no dunce.
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    calling me a racist is quite a stretch; I hate everyone equally.
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    Everyone, please stick to the topic at hand, and don't waste server space trying to one-up each other with childish insults. If you have personal issues with another member handle it via PM. Any further content that is not on topic will be removed.

    /moderator mode


    I think the population control argument is a poor one; I would want to see evidence that large groups with a greater percentage of homosexuals have higher chances of survival than large groups with a lesser percentage of homosexuals. Like most cases of group selection I highly doubt such evidence would be found. Group selection in general requires extremely low rates of migration between groups, and this is simply unrealistic when considering human groups.

    Along similar lines, however, is the kin selection theory - it has been shown that younger brothers are more likely to be homosexual if the majority of their older siblings are male. This means that there is already high competition between the male siblings, and at this point it is more advantageous for the younger brother to aid his siblings in their reproduction rather than to attempt his own.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    Then how do you explain the correlation between denser populations and increased percentage of homosexuality, Paralith?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    Then how do you explain the correlation between denser populations and increased percentage of homosexuality, Paralith?
    Firstly you would have to convince me that this is an actual increase in incidence and not simply the fact that homosexuals are becoming more open in the current culture and making themselves available for counting. In any case, if excess mating competition is to blame, favoring aiding kin with greater chances of success over forging your own way, then we might expect a greater percentage of homosexuality as the population density, and therefore competition, increases.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    It was a trend first noted in a population of rabbits, paralith. It does complicate things, I think I said this already, that people have social factors mitigating any kind of true observation, especially historically.

    I guess it might be hard to convince someone so into anthropology that trends reflected in other mammals apply to people, not to say you're homo centric or anything.

    It makes sense biologically. Ususally there are predators preventing such massive densities in population. As I'm sure you're aware, population dynamics have it that populations exceed carrying capacity and then crash far below carrying capacity, in a repeating cycle generally. It would make sense that there would be some manner of population control inherant in populations with potential to explode. I'm not suggesting it's something like "Well, we went from 0 homos to 50% homos in one generation!", but more along the lines of "Wow, this is a 2% increase over the last two or three generations".
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    So homosexuality increases with population density? As in what? Homosexual behaviour in urban centers? This is fuzzy, and I'm unsure what causes what. Lots of things are correlated.

    I can say anecdotally that a few ...non-breeders... in my family have helped the family grow larger/faster than it would if every child became a breeder. Division of labour and resources. Roles. We have extended families and societies because "it takes a village".

    I think that whether the non-breeder likes to hump fellow men or goats is genetically irrelevant. The main thing is that they don't personally reproduce, but are born for other functions that contribute to the reproductive success of others. Those others carry their genes, so everybody in the population including non-breeders is winning.
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    Yeah there is also a very very strong correlation (at least in men) between a history of sexual abuse and becoming homosexual, so I myself am a little skeptical at times of this despite sounding rather resolute.

    Meanwhile, many females actually appear to do it for the attentions of men, strangely, plus it's far more socially acceptable for them if their goal is to just get it on with another girl rather than impress a man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    Meanwhile, many females actually appear to do it for the attentions of men, strangely, plus it's far more socially acceptable for them if their goal is to just get it on with another girl rather than impress a man.
    Even if this is true, you are referring to Western culture: the majority of the world's population - and espcially the high density populations - do not live in the Western world.
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    A Relation to the number Homosexual people and Population density cant always be a constant rate for one.

    As Paralith Said
    Group selection in general requires extremely low rates of migration between groups, and this is simply unrealistic when considering human groups.
    The population density of a certain area may be changed greatly be people migrating to this place, who could be ether Homosexual or Heterosexual.

    Birth Rate, could how ever have an effect on the Amount of Homosexual people, I would think Continues Like India and China would have high amounts of Homosexual People, even thought it probably isnt widely accepted in those countries, so a lesser amount of Homosexuals would show their true sexuality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    So homosexuality increases with population density? As in what? Homosexual behaviour in urban centers? This is fuzzy, and I'm unsure what causes what. Lots of things are correlated.

    I can say anecdotally that a few ...non-breeders... in my family have helped the family grow larger/faster than it would if every child became a breeder. Division of labour and resources. Roles. We have extended families and societies because "it takes a village".

    I think that whether the non-breeder likes to hump fellow men or goats is genetically irrelevant. The main thing is that they don't personally reproduce, but are born for other functions that contribute to the reproductive success of others. Those others carry their genes, so everybody in the population including non-breeders is winning.
    You do get much higher percentage of gays in urban centers like New York, London, and Paris. This is however due to migration, gay people tend to move away from rural areas to urban centers with large gay communities because they don't want to be isolated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    It was a trend first noted in a population of rabbits, paralith. It does complicate things, I think I said this already, that people have social factors mitigating any kind of true observation, especially historically.

    I guess it might be hard to convince someone so into anthropology that trends reflected in other mammals apply to people, not to say you're homo centric or anything.

    It makes sense biologically. Ususally there are predators preventing such massive densities in population. As I'm sure you're aware, population dynamics have it that populations exceed carrying capacity and then crash far below carrying capacity, in a repeating cycle generally. It would make sense that there would be some manner of population control inherant in populations with potential to explode. I'm not suggesting it's something like "Well, we went from 0 homos to 50% homos in one generation!", but more along the lines of "Wow, this is a 2% increase over the last two or three generations".
    Increased homosexual behavior in rabbits? I've heard of homosexual behavior in many animals, but I'd like to see a source for that. I understand how population dynamics work, but what is the mechanism behind what you are suggesting? The overall effect may be to decrease population density but the mechanism is a result of increased competition between members of that species and a need to respond to that competition.

    I understand why you would imply that I am too human-centered. You are not very familiar with my background or posting history and in this particular thread I have only mentioned human examples. Others have already touched upon the existence of homosexual behavior in other animals, and you yourself used an example I have used in past homosexuality threads of bonobos; if they use sexual behavior to cement social bonds, why not humans?

    But postulating is not the same as proclaiming the answer. The kin selection theory has some evidence supporting it (such as this paper), and if we want to state that population density does directly effect incidence of homosexuality we need to verify that pattern in human populations. The existence of that pattern in populations of other animals definitely lends support to the the theory but does not necessarily mean the same thing is happening in humans.
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    I'd ask that you just delete them instead, there's already more than enough of him in pseudo to go around.


    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Increased homosexual behavior in rabbits? I've heard of homosexual behavior in many animals, but I'd like to see a source for that. I understand how population dynamics work, but what is the mechanism behind what you are suggesting? The overall effect may be to decrease population density but the mechanism is a result of increased competition between members of that species and a need to respond to that competition.
    You and me both brother...I read it actually in an intro to ecology class as a provided reference for some such thing. I can't seem to track it down though, curse my lack of access to university databases!

    I'm not really sure of any mechanism at all, I'm really just repeating what I remember from what I read. Sounds sketchy, but at least there's a precident of homosexuality in animals, particularily mammals.

    As a side note, funny enough, Dwarf Ackie Monitors have a homosexual combat wherein they try to be the first to evert hemipenes into each others cloacas- thereby having reptilian gay-sex. It's all a dominance thing, many amateurs think it's because they are mating and instead of eggs they get one dead monitor in the long run. I've actually seen this in person...twice.
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  50. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Increased homosexual behavior in rabbits?
    Rabbits are notoriously difficult to sex until quite mature, so if our denser population includes many young adults we should expect more errors. Also, the rabbits themselves may be in error for the same reason.

    I've had rabbits. Three initially, they were all supposed to be female. I wonder if these rabbits we've kept as livestock since Roman times at least, have evolved sexual ambiguity to reproduce in spite of our attempts to isolate the sexes?

    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    You and me both brother
    I'll let the rat tell you.

    Quote Originally Posted by mormoopid
    curse my lack of access to university databases!
    Another aside: Did you know the World Wide Web was developed specifically for sharing information among scientists? Ironic huh?
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    Off-topic content removed.
    Paralith
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  52. #51  
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    I think the answer Sometimes by spuriousmonkey was the best answer :wink:.
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