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Thread: Humanity has not existed for longer that 6k years...

  1. #1 Humanity has not existed for longer that 6k years... 
    Forum Freshman portcontrol7's Avatar
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    Please give me easy to understand information to disprove this posts outrageous topic. Easy enough for a fundamentalist christian to understand.


    http://sites.google.com/site/portcon...me/bobtiny.JPG

    http://theleapinthedark.blogspot.com

    "The most monstrous effect of the indoctrination of the young by religion, is not that they are mislead, but are trained to mislead themselves." - Me
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    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
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    I just googled "oldest human remains" and this came up as the first link:

    The 160,000-year-old fossils, the oldest ever Homo sapiens and excavated in a remote region of Ethiopia, appear to prove that the continent was the cradle of humanity, the scientists said.

    http://www.warmafrica.com/index/geo/.../a/a/artid/244


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  4. #3  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Yeah, but no creationist is going to believe in the age of those fossils.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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    I usually just point and laugh myself.
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #5  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    what do you think this thread is about then ? on the surface it may be about dating of geologic strata, but we all know what the real issue is, don't we ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    Forum Freshman portcontrol7's Avatar
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    Well I have relatives who will simply say that scientists are full of it, and their dating methods are wrong, the bible says so nah nah nah!

    I guess I'll have to really get a strong grasp of how we date these fossils and then break it down to them.

    Also on the genetic level I'd expect there to be evidence of a longer than 6k year history, but I really don't know much about this either.
    http://sites.google.com/site/portcon...me/bobtiny.JPG

    http://theleapinthedark.blogspot.com

    "The most monstrous effect of the indoctrination of the young by religion, is not that they are mislead, but are trained to mislead themselves." - Me
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  8. #7  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    as jollybear has shown many times over, those who don't want to be convinced won't be, through a mixture of wilful ignorance and plain disbelief

    + the internet is so full of counter-information these days that whatever you can throw at them in terms of paleontological, geological, genetic, astronomical and archeological data, they'll counter with spurious misinformation from sites such as conservapedia and answersingenesis
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    There's a strong Biblical case that many of the time periods in the Bible are er, what's the word, symbolic? As in a 'day' may mean an 'age'. A 'year' means (God-knows-what).

    I'd Google that (given more, er, 'imperical' avenues seem to be closed off).


    Works for some people. As in 'the seven days of Creation' means seven... well - Google it.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    That makes Moses even older than before.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  11. #10  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Moses was found in a basket amongst the bullshit wasn't he? Or was that bullrushes?
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    Sometimes I don't know how calling the deeply held beliefs of people "bullshit", makes things any better.

    I'm pretty sure that anyone with deeply held beliefs will benefit from a closer examination of the bullshit of the other. That goes both ways. Doesn't mean you'll agree, but might mean you will be less likely to say 'bullshit'. Which is more often than not, a better thing.


    'Monkey - maybe if you... they have an answer to that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vexer
    Sometimes I don't know how calling the deeply held beliefs of people "bullshit", makes things any better.
    Perhaps my intention is not to make things better. Perhaps my intention is to convey that I too hold beliefs. These beliefs are not only passionately held, but rationally arrived at. So, I reserve the right to say bullshit when I see it. I also expect the blind purveyors of this bullshit to march on blithely unaware of the stench which accompanies them.

    There now, don't you think the lighthearted comment about the bullrushes (whichafter all conveys a knowledge of the Bible) was preferable to my comments above.

    I'm pretty sure that anyone with deeply held beliefs will benefit from a closer examination of the bullshit of the other.
    I've made the examination. I was a potential candidate for the ministry.
    Doesn't mean you'll agree, but might mean you will be less likely to say 'bullshit'.
    On the contrary. It is the close examination that enables me to say bullshit.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vexer
    I'm pretty sure that anyone with deeply held beliefs will benefit from a closer examination of the bullshit of the other. That goes both ways. Doesn't mean you'll agree, but might mean you will be less likely to say 'bullshit'. Which is more often than not, a better thing.
    As was already pointed out by Ophiolite, it is precisely the fact that I have listened to what they have to say and examined their beliefs carefully that I am comfortable calling them bullshit. If I didn't know much about their beliefs, I would probably just say "I'm not sure, I'll have to look into it more," rather than declaring it bullshit. Many years of attending a religious school while growing up has left me thoroughly familiar with their beliefs. Your theory that a person is less likely to call beliefs bullshit if they examine the beliefs closely only works if the other person's beliefs have some validity that become apparent upon close examination. That's not the case here - the closer you look, the more crazy and nonsensical it all appears.
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    Quote Originally Posted by portcontrol7
    Well I have relatives who will simply say that scientists are full of it, and their dating methods are wrong, the bible says so nah nah nah!
    Well, if they have already decided a priori that any evidence that contradicts their beliefs are lies, then there isn't really anything you can do. After all, any evidence that you might present to them that contradicts their beliefs is automatically a lie. If it wasn't a lie, then it wouldn't contradict their beliefs, now would it?

    The bottom line is that your criteria for judging what is true and what is false is very different from their criteria. You apparently look at evidence, evaluate the evidence, and see where it points. They, on the other hand, decide what is true and then judge any evidence based on how well it conforms to what they have determined is true. You could try having a deep discussion with them about how they know what is true and what isn't, but it isn't likely to be productive.
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    I am comfortable calling them bullshit.

    Then you're calling those people, bullshit. And they, will call you the same.

    And this will help anyone, how.
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  17. #16  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Yes, but calling bullshit bullshit is meaningful, whereas calling the endeavour to get rid of bullshit bullshit is bullshit.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

    - Arnaud Amalric

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  18. #17  
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    G'day from the land of ozzzzzz

    Smile this part is posted by my kid,,,,,,,,,have fun

    History of Humans

    Homo sapiens
    http://au.encarta.msn.com/encnet/ref...208139&lc=3081

    Human Evolution
    http://au.encarta.msn.com/encycloped...Evolution.html

    As far as is known, the earliest hominins were restricted to Africa. Hominins began to move into the tropical and subtropical areas of Eurasia around 1.6 to 1.8 million years ago, and into the temperate parts of these continents at least 500,000 years ago. Much later (42,000 to 45,000 years ago) modern humans crossed the water barrier to Australia. Only long after the appearance of modern human beings did people move into the New World (North and South America), probably less than 30,000 years ago.

    The Evolution of the Human
    http://www.onelife.com/evolve/manev.html

    Some controversy exists on the time of this common ancestor to both ape and human, but it is believed to be about 5.5 million years ago. A key fossil record near that time is Ramapithecus, which was believed to be an early hominid for many years, but is now considered an ancient ape that lived near the fork in our common lineage. Ramapithecus is now thought to be an ancestor of the modern apes.

    Human Evolution
    This site is quite interesting

    http://www.stanford.edu/~harryg/protected/evolve3.htm
    Human Origin
    http://www.stanford.edu/~harryg/protected/evolve5.htm

    Australopithecus afarensis and africanus are the gracile forms of this species with rather small and light body structures. Australopithecus robustus and boisei, were more robust individuals with a rather heavy bone structure with big teeth and saggital crest

    Australopithecus afarensis fossils were discovered by Taieb and Johanson in Hadar, Ethiopia named Lucy.
    Human Origins and Evolution in Africa
    http://www.indiana.edu/~origins/
    Smile and live another day
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    I have relatives that cling to this sort of belief and there is almost no way that they can be convinced that raidoactive dating methods are accurate. My relatives hit me with the line that we haven't been around long enough to truly test some of the half-lives that we use for dating.

    This all started when they were roped in by the young earth creationist material that circulated around the church circuit a few years ago.

    These people should be taken seriously and they should be feared as should all fundamentalists groups that attempt to filter scientific information. These people are backed by billions of dollars and they want to fight anything that calls fundamentalism into question. I don't think that they should be taken lightly and I don't think that we should ignore them.
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  20. #19  
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    G'day from the land of ozzzzzz


    A fact is a fact.

    Man can change opinions, But! not the facts.
    Smile and live another day
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Costas
    Man can change opinions, But! not the facts.
    The porblem is to distinguish between a fact and a fart. The latter are often found associated with bullshit. (And may be a major cause of global waming.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexer
    Then you're calling those people, bullshit. And they, will call you the same.
    And this will help anyone, how.
    One hopes that examples of well structured arguments in other posts and threads will demonstrate to the thinking person that the person calling 'bullshit' is a rational, thoughtful individual who is likely able to recognise bullshit when they see it.
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  22. #21  
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    Ophiolite, that's bullshit and you know it.
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  23. #22  
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    No, I don't know it. I believe it rather passionately. Perhaps you would like to demonstrate, using well structured arguments, that it is indeed bullshit.

    And in passing are you arguing that the expressed opinions earlier in the thread, which I called bullshit, are indeed bullshit, but that we should be polite and not call them that, or are you saying they are simply not bullshit?
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  24. #23  
    (Q)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vexer
    Ophiolite, that's bullshit and you know it.
    Don't worry, it's just a knee-jerk reaction.
    Religious Fundamentalist Club - Member #1.
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  25. #24  
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    G'day Mr (Q)

    Have you got something to say?


    Ophiolite said:

    The porblem is to distinguish between a fact and a fart. The latter are often found associated with bullshit. (And may be a major cause of global waming.)
    Most people fart does that make them main stream and associated with bull crap.
    Smile and live another day
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  26. #25  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexer
    Ophiolite, that's bullshit and you know it.
    Don't worry, it's just a knee-jerk reaction.
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