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Thread: evolutionary process of tank design

  1. #1 evolutionary process of tank design 
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    i've noticed that tank design follow much the same evolutionary traits as regular evolution.
    you have several different species of tanks which evolved from the common ancestor of WW1, where "interbreeding" of parts create new and more effective designs. tank improvement was also more prevalent in the cold war,
    when selection pressure was higher.
    and the most interesting comparison is where some of the older "species" of tanks like the T-55, still prevail in some armies to this day, as the crocodile and coelachant has survived for hundreds of millions of years in their own niches.
    so even in our designs, our roots of evolution still prevail.


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    I think you could make the comparison to biological evolution anywhere there is variation, selection and heritability.

    Thus at the most abstract level ideas evolve as people vary their interpretations of existing ideas or come up with new ones. The appeal of certain ideas to certain people/contexts/needs drives selection of particular ideas and the ideas which can adapt best to a specific context are the ones which propagate.

    Yay memes!

    And you can apply that template to any kind of design: computers, computer software, architecture, and tanks!


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    That's interesting. It goes to show how natural the concept of 'survival of the fittest' is, really. If one thing doesn't work, it doesn't last and something better takes its place. 'Survival of the fittest' and 'natural selection' (though you'd need to replace the word 'natural' depending on the context) definitely don't apply only to biology. Good observation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemboy
    That's interesting. It goes to show how natural the concept of 'survival of the fittest' is, really. If one thing doesn't work, it doesn't last and something better takes its place. 'Survival of the fittest' and 'natural selection' (though you'd need to replace the word 'natural' depending on the context) definitely don't apply only to biology. Good observation.
    yes, it evens maintains the philosophy that isolation creates greater divergence between the designs.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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  6. #5 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    i've noticed that tank design follow much the same evolutionary traits as regular evolution.
    you have several different species of tanks which evolved from the common ancestor of WW1, where "interbreeding" of parts create new and more effective designs. tank improvement was also more prevalent in the cold war,
    when selection pressure was higher.
    and the most interesting comparison is where some of the older "species" of tanks like the T-55, still prevail in some armies to this day, as the crocodile and coelachant has survived for hundreds of millions of years in their own niches.
    so even in our designs, our roots of evolution still prevail.
    so you can see how evolution is just a case of progressive intelligent design then, good we agree on something

    'intelligent designer'

    aka

    GOD

    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  7. #6 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    i've noticed that tank design follow much the same evolutionary traits as regular evolution.
    you have several different species of tanks which evolved from the common ancestor of WW1, where "interbreeding" of parts create new and more effective designs. tank improvement was also more prevalent in the cold war,
    when selection pressure was higher.
    and the most interesting comparison is where some of the older "species" of tanks like the T-55, still prevail in some armies to this day, as the crocodile and coelachant has survived for hundreds of millions of years in their own niches.
    so even in our designs, our roots of evolution still prevail.
    so you can see how evolution is just a case of progressive intelligent design then, good we agree on something

    'intelligent designer'

    aka

    GOD


    ... and so, once more we witness the sacrifice of logical scientific debate on the altar of religion! Allah Akhbar!
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  8. #7 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highball


    ... and so, once more we witness the sacrifice of logical scientific debate on the altar of religion! Allah Akhbar!
    who mentioned religion?

    I have none.

    The poster made the point that evolution is akin to our progressive intelligent design and thus demonstrated that rather than evolution proving the non existance of an intelligent designer, it supported it.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  9. #8 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by Highball


    ... and so, once more we witness the sacrifice of logical scientific debate on the altar of religion! Allah Akhbar!
    who mentioned religion?

    I have none.

    The poster made the point that evolution is akin to our progressive intelligent design and thus demonstrated that rather than evolution proving the non existance of an intelligent designer, it supported it.
    No. you completely and absolutely misunderstood.
    its a selection process by intelligent beings, not intelligent design.
    designs follow the needs of soldiers in the field, and the designers experiment until they get a solution that can work towards that, while simultaneously not cripple the design in some other area.

    when the first tank was made, there was no plan, only a set of requirements.

    the way the christian creatonism is postulated, is that "god has a plan with everything" so everything is put together in a clockwork fashion and plays out exactly like god wants. or something. christians tend to cheat in this area.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemboy
    That's interesting. It goes to show how natural the concept of 'survival of the fittest' is, really. If one thing doesn't work, it doesn't last and something better takes its place.
    This can be falsified in one word:
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  11. #10 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf

    the way the christian creatonism is postulated, is that "god has a plan with everything" so everything is put together in a clockwork fashion and plays out exactly like god wants. or something. christians tend to cheat in this area.
    I'm not a christian so I wouldn't know.

    Who mentioned Christians?
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  12. #11 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf

    the way the christian creatonism is postulated, is that "god has a plan with everything" so everything is put together in a clockwork fashion and plays out exactly like god wants. or something. christians tend to cheat in this area.
    I'm not a christian so I wouldn't know.

    Who mentioned Christians?
    the mention of ID and GOD are words usually associated with monotheism, and christianity in particular.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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  13. #12 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf

    the way the christian creatonism is postulated, is that "god has a plan with everything" so everything is put together in a clockwork fashion and plays out exactly like god wants. or something. christians tend to cheat in this area.
    I'm not a christian so I wouldn't know.

    Who mentioned Christians?
    the mention of ID and GOD are words usually associated with monotheism, and christianity in particular.
    It also implies that there is intelligence behind the design which could simply come from the possibility this planet was teraformed and so on by an intelligent alien race. Which I choose to call GOD for purposes of this debate.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  14. #13  
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    You are absolutely right!

    That is if deja wolf is right.

    Unfortunately he is completely wrong.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    You are absolutely right!

    That is if deja wolf is right.

    Unfortunately he is completely wrong.
    Hello Monkey man

    I passed by your forum the other day, interesting changes you made. Tis looking good. I see the nipper is growing well. Shame about the bunny with spunky hair doo
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    You are absolutely right!

    That is if deja wolf is right.

    Unfortunately he is completely wrong.
    i'm wrong where. just making an observation.
    not saying tank design is evolution, only that it acts a lot like it.

    i hate people telling me "i'm wrong" without telling me on what particular area that i'm wrong.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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  17. #16 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

    It also implies that there is intelligence behind the design which could simply come from the possibility this planet was teraformed and so on by an intelligent alien race. Which I choose to call GOD for purposes of this debate.
    no, it only implies there is selection pressure, as in intelligent beings expressing their wants and needs, or enemies exploiting weaknesses in a design.

    the difference being that in nature, the genes takes care of this process over billions of years, while tank designers takes years.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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  18. #17 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by Highball


    ... and so, once more we witness the sacrifice of logical scientific debate on the altar of religion! Allah Akhbar!
    who mentioned religion?

    I have none.

    The poster made the point that evolution is akin to our progressive intelligent design and thus demonstrated that rather than evolution proving the non existance of an intelligent designer, it supported it.
    No. you completely and absolutely misunderstood.
    its a selection process by intelligent beings, not intelligent design.
    designs follow the needs of soldiers in the field, and the designers experiment until they get a solution that can work towards that, while simultaneously not cripple the design in some other area.

    when the first tank was made, there was no plan, only a set of requirements.
    If you randomly generate enough plans, and then only select for the few that fit those requirements, that would be kind of evolution- like, wouldn't it? So, maybe the human process is close but not quite the same? I wonder if a person could write an AI that uses principles of evolution to design better tanks by doing just that?

    It seems that the major difference is that intelligence allows us to narrow the list more rapidly, because the bad designs only happen in our imagination, rather than needing to actually be built in real life. We only build the prototypes that seem promising on the drawing board, and only draw the prototypes that seem promising in our head. It may be that we also only imagine things from a certain starting point as well?

    This could explain why human thought evolution is so rapid. Indeed it's become a great deal more rapid since the printing press than it was before, because the rate of attrition among good ideas (ones worth printing) has decreased.


    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf

    the way the christian creatonism is postulated, is that "god has a plan with everything" so everything is put together in a clockwork fashion and plays out exactly like god wants. or something. christians tend to cheat in this area.
    I'm not a christian so I wouldn't know.

    Who mentioned Christians?
    the mention of ID and GOD are words usually associated with monotheism, and christianity in particular.
    It also implies that there is intelligence behind the design which could simply come from the possibility this planet was teraformed and so on by an intelligent alien race. Which I choose to call GOD for purposes of this debate.
    If you go with that theory, then you're still leaving open the question of whether somebody somewhere evolved. It's like taking out a loan to pay a debt. You're only delaying the inevitable.
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  19. #18 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax

    If you go with that theory, then you're still leaving open the question of whether somebody somewhere evolved. debt.
    I'm not denying it.

    That someone probably evolved on a planet with easily identifiable variables for us to say life began ...'thus',

    But the FACT is ....

    We can't do that on this planet.

    Thus life could have originated somewhere else, just not here.

    Maybe you need to refresh your knowledge on what's new in the origin of life hunt.

    http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/sit...ategory/51/63/


    http://www8.nationalacademies.org/on...RecordID=11919
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  20. #19  
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    So you're suggesting that another world out there in space may have had conditions more favorable than those found here, and the first life forms were brought here either deliberately or via meteors/comets/other debris?

    At least that's a rational god theory. I prefer to believe in aliens more than god, but then again, what's the difference? They'd have more advanced philosophies than us, most likely, and the miracles would be easy for them.

    So I guess we only differ on the question of whether life could/did evolve here on Earth.
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  21. #20 Re: evolutionary process of tank design 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    That someone probably evolved on a planet with easily identifiable variables for us to say life began ...'thus',

    But the FACT is ....

    We can't do that on this planet.

    Thus life could have originated somewhere else, just not here.
    What can't we do? Prove that life originated here? Or do you mean that we haven't done it yet (which is a very different thing from "can't")?
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