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Thread: Schools - an utter waste of time?!

  1. #1 Schools - an utter waste of time?! 
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    Well... please dont crussify me for this but I have to ask what people around the forum think about this issiue...

    I`m currently at 11th grade, 1 more year and i`m outta here (well.. straight to the army that is... :? ).
    When I look back at my life I`m finding out that ALL what i`ve learned so far from mendatory school(i hope i got it right ) was an utter waste of time!
    I mean... I could learn ALL(if not more) of what I`ve learned so far from junior school and high school in like... 2-3 years TOPS.

    I know it teaches teh kid all those social conditions that he may encounter in life but that also can be conditioned in a very VERY short period of time.

    Besides.. if me wants to be eh buziness matey, why the hell should I learn all those biology, geography, chemistry and other thingys alike when i can hire people to do the work for me if I ever encounter a case that I`ll be needing this kind of knowledge?! (me in person really likes these subjects, but i know ALOT of others who hate these subjects and dont want to know anything about them)

    And also, why should I learn some of the very useless subjects such as history and bible, why the hell should I be needing to remember tons of useless texts just for one test if after a week past the test I wont remember anything from what I`ve learned?!
    (and dont say to remember me legacy/past/ancestors or something like this cos I will kill you! . .. )

    ..besides... why should a man that is an atheist or doesnt give a dam about WW1/2 learn these subjects?! (WW1/2, thats what we always were learning in history... if it was about ancient greece/rome or norse gods I would of loved history but other then that its a total bullshit for those who dont care).

    In anyways.... I want your o-p-i-n-i-o-n-s-s-s-s-s-s!!!

    thanks,
    tony


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  3. #2  
    Forum Masters Degree organic god's Avatar
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    the intelligent love school, and the moronic hate it.

    at 16 all the people who left school in my year were complete idiots. and now have no prospects.

    School is a gift to those of us who love learning and want to expand our knowledge.
    sure there is a lot of pointless testing i agree with you on that but it is out of our hands as students.

    And school is the entry to higher education, the land of oppurtunity

    best thing is to go to school and take as much as you can from the exp. there is no point fighting the school system. how will it help?


    everything is mathematical.
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  4. #3  
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    ooo... it`ll help greatly, it`ll help by saving a **** load of time for us students!
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  5. #4  
    Forum Masters Degree SuperNatendo's Avatar
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    Hmmm,

    If your going into business, you probably need to learn how to articulate well. I have never seen anyone type the way Ali-G sounds before the way you do. It is quite astonishing actually. You would need to at least re-assure your employees that you know what your doing! No one wants to work under someone who knows much less than they do! They would just leave and start their own business, and run you out of town!

    School is very important not just for learning social interactions! I don't know about your school but where I went to school each year the classes would go into much more detail than the previous year.

    Most of the history books in high school teach mostly recent history since they hope at least some of the students have a basic grasp as to why the world is the way it is at the moment. If you are interested in a more specific time frame such as ancient Greece, college would be a good place to go, especially since universities more or less started in Greece

    As for Norse gods that is more of a mythology course than history I suppose.
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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  6. #5  
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperNatendo
    Hmmm,

    If your going into business, you probably need to learn how to articulate well. I have never seen anyone type the way Ali-G sounds before the way you do. It is quite astonishing actually. You would need to at least re-assure your employees that you know what your doing! No one wants to work under someone who knows much less than they do! They would just leave and start their own business, and run you out of town!

    School is very important not just for learning social interactions! I don't know about your school but where I went to school each year the classes would go into much more detail than the previous year.

    Most of the history books in high school teach mostly recent history since they hope at least some of the students have a basic grasp as to why the world is the way it is at the moment. If you are interested in a more specific time frame such as ancient Greece, college would be a good place to go, especially since universities more or less started in Greece

    As for Norse gods that is more of a mythology course than history I suppose.
    hm... lol, well I never though about it this way before, I guess that sometimes my typing does sound a little bit as Ali-G speaking
    But I`m doing it for me own sake as when I type this way I can get more words into the text in shorter time... basically... I type faster this way xD

    In anyhows, me school is your usual school in tha world, we learn, learn and learn, and as each year passes the material gets... well... I cant say more complex, but it indeed is changing...

    I`m what you can call a crappy student... but dont take my worlds lightly as I like to investigate deeply into shyt that interests me... which is unforuanelly not the shyt that`s thought as school (at least not in my school..)

    I mean... i cant find a single occation in my future life that i`ll be needing the use of knowing how many jews died in tunisia, or how to find x^3, or when do I need to use present progressive or perfect(note; this thing is really useless)... and even if I be stuck at a situation which i`ll be required to find x^3... I could always find a matey of mine who could answer it for me!... :?

    And if you want to learn something specific which is complex you can always take a course at the university to learn how to do it!

    Bah, school is just rubbish!

    btw;
    You would need to at least re-assure your employees that you know what your doing! No one wants to work under someone who knows much less than they do! They would just leave and start their own business, and run you out of town
    Real knowledge doesnt come from schools nor knowledge which uve learned thru social conditioning but real knowledge comes from things that fascineate you, things that you enjoy studying, this knowledge sits in its pure form inside your mind as you wont let it be forgotten that easly...
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  7. #6  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Learning is brilliant. If I could go to school again, I would I love education. I've been away from education for like 8 months now and my only stimulus is the www. I used to get annoyed by school, but I think its 100% neccesary. Although if I may add my penny in the fountain, the fundementals should be taught, GSCE stuff (high school) and that also after that people should be free to choose their education and not let parents make that decision. All of my friends have gone to uni, spending thousands upon thousands of pounds (double the worth of the dollar equvalent fee), and have not a clue why they are going in.

    Life is a lesson, so, if thats true, living by definition, is learning! .
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  8. #7  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    All of my friends have gone to uni, spending thousands upon thousands of pounds (double the worth of the dollar equvalent fee), and have not a clue why they are going in.
    Believe you me, Brits pay nothing compared to Americans when it comes to college.
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  9. #8  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    We must be lucky. Just so, exactly do you have to pay for a 5 year course, as an average of all courses that are avaliable? I think here its (in US dollars) $20,000.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  10. #9  
    Forum Masters Degree organic god's Avatar
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    ooo... it`ll help greatly, it`ll help by saving a **** load of time for us students!
    a few students who don't like school rebelling will achieve nothing, you will just disrupt the learning of others which will waste the time of those who want to learn.
    once again i reference my school, the idiots who didn't understand the lessons rather than listen and try to learn they messed around and disrupted the class. now they have no prospects they would jump at the chance to go back and change.

    if you want to learn something specific which is complex you can always take a course at the university to learn how to do it!
    need to go to school to go to university and study something complex. you can't jump in to a complex degree without the building blocks school gives you

    All of my friends have gone to uni, spending thousands upon thousands of pounds (double the worth of the dollar equvalent fee), and have not a clue why they are going in.
    indeed but you don't have to start paying it back until you start earning a certain amount, university is a great experience, and on average graduates earn a hell of a lot more than non graduates

    http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/sta...e2/slide5.html
    everything is mathematical.
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  11. #10  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    ...graduates earn a hell of a lot more than non graduates.
    Yeah about 10 grand more a year.

    Thats not much compared to some jobs, and doesn't seem worth it. I'm only going to uni one day to help me build my time travel theories.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  12. #11  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    We must be lucky. Just so, exactly do you have to pay for a 5 year course, as an average of all courses that are avaliable? I think here its (in US dollars) $20,000.
    I'm not sure what you're asking, but tuition and board at top universities can be as much as $50,000 a year.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by organic god
    the intelligent love school, and the moronic hate it.
    I don't like school. And that's just because of the homework etc. I think I have a phobia or something, lol! I like studying on my own for some strange reason
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  14. #13  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serpicojr
    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    We must be lucky. Just so, exactly do you have to pay for a 5 year course, as an average of all courses that are avaliable? I think here its (in US dollars) $20,000.
    I'm not sure what you're asking, but tuition and board at top universities can be as much as $50,000 a year.
    Screw that and learn it yourself, so you don't get a qualification from it, you get the knowledge, and thats the point after all isn't it? Or is it.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  15. #14  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Screw that and learn it yourself, so you don't get a qualification from it, you get the knowledge, and thats the point after all isn't it? Or is it.
    It's a little late for me--I already have my bachelor's degree. Luckily, I'm getting paid to get my PhD.
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  16. #15  
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by organic god
    the intelligent love school, and the moronic hate it.
    I don't like school. And that's just because of the homework etc. I think I have a phobia or something, lol! I like studying on my own for some strange reason
    lol same here, currently i`m kinda behind the studies as I was sleeping nearly in all teh classes this year, and now i`m just loaning notebooks from me friend and study at home for a few dozen of minutes/week then i`m good as any other student! xD

    high school is really just rubbish.

    Btw, if you wanna earn a lot of money this university thingy doesnt help that greatly... better dedicade a few hours for ya self to think about a cool thing that is not yet in the world (at least not commercialised) then commercialise and start earning pretty much pretty muchly...
    just my... dam! im a penny short

    tony
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  17. #16  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    better dedicade a few hours for ya self to think about a cool thing that is not yet in the world (at least not commercialised) then commercialise and start earning pretty much pretty muchly...
    Then quit whining and do it.
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  18. #17  
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    Who says I'm not??
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  19. #18  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
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    You may be working on the next big thing, but you're still whining.
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  20. #19  
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    I'm whining about school wasting my precious time when I could invest it in resting instead.
    Besides, money has nothing to do with anything in this issiue.

    You cant even imagine how easy it is to earn alot of money if one knows to play his cards right...
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  21. #20  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
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    Whining is zhe funzor for da m3 wh3nz Ies se3 pe0ple getha angri forz it. Ies likez toes maek p30pl3 pizzy, ya?
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  22. #21  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    I found high school quite useful for getting me into university, I suspect my admission would have been hindered by illiteracy and complete lack of basic science.
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  23. #22  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Clearly, children should be educated to a certain degree before they're tossed out into the real world. I think high school is needed but for a large part, I don't think it's done correctly. It's distance from reality makes it difficult for students to understand why they're doing all this mundane gruntwork, and its homogeneity doesn't accurately represent real world opportunities for the future.

    I feel this way based largely on my own experiences and the experiences of several of my friends. I didn't know I wanted to be a research scientist when I left high school. I knew I'd always liked biology, but the biology classes I took were so basic and surface level that I wasn't exposed to the cutting edge research and ideas that later drew me to the field. And not knowing what I wanted to do with my life only contributed to the feeling that all the work I was doing was repetitive and pointless.

    School is obviously useful, but it needs to be made much more useful than it currently is.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  24. #23  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Clearly, children should be educated to a certain degree before they're tossed out into the real world. I think high school is needed but for a large part, I don't think it's done correctly. It's distance from reality makes it difficult for students to understand why they're doing all this mundane gruntwork, and its homogeneity doesn't accurately represent real world opportunities for the future.

    I feel this way based largely on my own experiences and the experiences of several of my friends. I didn't know I wanted to be a research scientist when I left high school. I knew I'd always liked biology, but the biology classes I took were so basic and surface level that I wasn't exposed to the cutting edge research and ideas that later drew me to the field. And not knowing what I wanted to do with my life only contributed to the feeling that all the work I was doing was repetitive and pointless.

    School is obviously useful, but it needs to be made much more useful than it currently is.
    I believe an integration of professional education, like plumbing and carpentry, into school for students who are less academically inclined would be a good change for public schools. The majority of students in inner city public schools don't finish, I remember the figure being around 75% for one city, but this is from memory so I may have inflated the number lol.

    I still have a chip on my shoulder too from when I realized the clear difference in the quality of my public school education from that of privately educated people. My school didn't even have a biology lab, apart from the bars on the windows and the holes in the walls, that was probably the worst part of my school.
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  25. #24  
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    [/quote] found high school quite useful for getting me into university, I suspect my admission would have been hindered by illiteracy and complete lack of basic science. I didn't find that to be what I learnt though highschool and I doubt that will change in the last two months but it has taught me of the excistance of people and idiots and I do find it to be worth the time and exprince to prepare for university, school is important but I don't learn much from it as a matter of fact I would probably have learnt better just reading the material but even I feel it is still important
    sorry I was gone so long, there are just to many undereducated people here I did not want to add to the problem but I am going to anyway
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  26. #25  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    I didn't grow up in an environment where I could afford my own text books, nor could my parents afford a new computer and internet connection. Also, neither of my parents has a science education, and my father never finished high school. Many people don't have the luxury or resources to educate themselves at a significant level. Moreover, the guidance of educators is crutial for many people.
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  27. #26  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    I didn't grow up in an environment where I could afford my own text books, nor could my parents afford a new computer and internet connection. Also, neither of my parents has a science education, and my father never finished high school. Many people don't have the luxury or resources to educate themselves at a significant level. Moreover, the guidance of educators is crutial for many people.
    This is precisely why school is very important - and why it's so important that schools be updated to provide this needed service in the best way possible.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  28. #27  
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    i used to be an A student up until 5th grade, when negative numbers and algebra came in. then my grades plummeted.

    i didn't get the logic behind negative numbers, and so i didn't get the logic of algebra.

    i didn't understand parantheses in math during my whole time in school, until i picked up on C++ programming. then parentheses finally made sense, but it still didn't make sense in algebra until long after i quit school and started teaching myself through the internet. now i understand all kinds of things that i would never have learned on school, simply because school burns you out completely, and then just KEEPS PUSHING.

    the last 3 years, i had a deep hate for everything with school, and all the useless stuff it pushed as important.
    i never learned about evolution in school. if it hadn't been for my interest in dinosaurs, i would have never understood what it was.
    i never learned much about the universe in school, there was some basics on the solar system, and pff, who cares bout the rest.
    the problem with the way school does things, is that they
    give you a small tidbit of information, gives you some tests to check if you learned something, as if it expect you to not have any interest for the subject. then next year, it repeats the whole subject, expands a bit, and gives you a new test. and thats how it goes with all subjects.
    you feel like knowledge is being hammered into you, no matter if you like it or not, and if you ask the teacher "why are we doing this?"
    they can't give you a straight answer, you're starting to ask yourself "whats the point of this"
    i had several teachers, none of them able to give a straight answer, all of them telling me how bad it was to drop out of school, and not do your homework. i never did my homework. ever.
    my mother kept screaming and hollering over me to do my homework.
    fucking homework.

    if i ever went into school again, the only reason to do so would be to mock my teachers with all the stuff i've learned by not having school breathing over my shoulder constantly.

    i did learn something useful from schoo though. math, reading, writing,
    and basic units of measure, as well as english, which i perfected by reading english gaming magazines.
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  29. #28  
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    Well... I think the reason that teachers wont tell students their opinions about the school system is because they are cowards.
    They know that most of what they teach us will be of little use to the students, they know that all the material that they teach us over the year can be thought in less then a month(with same lesson time patterns), but if they do that they risk on going against the stream and ultimately getting fired.

    Besides if they are to teach us all the material in less then a month they will be left with no income stream to their pockets so thats another thing...

    And dejawolf, IO agree with ya, the only things that school has thought me eather is basic math, reading and writing
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  30. #29  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
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    You get out of school what you put into school. If you show up with a shitty attitude and a closed mind, if you see it as teachers shoveling crap into your head instead of seeing it as an opportunity to construct your own meaning, then you're going to have a bad experience and learn nothing.

    Dwelling on your bad experiences in education is worthless unless you're going to do something about it. Either turn your criticism into a positive, active suggestion about what schooling can and should be, or stop worrying about what could have been, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move onward and upward.

    Personally, I have had some shitty experiences in school, and I have seen many people having shitty experiences in school. In general, though, I love school and education. I'm going into academia, and one of my goals is to present an atmosphere which corrects the various faults that I find in education and to advocate such in my department, in my discipline, and to whoever else may listen. I think it can be better, and I'm going to do all I can to do so.
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    i watched a great 24 hour lecture on physics, while working, on google videos.
    its what re-sparked my interest in knowledge.
    it was a lecture from berkeley called "physics for future presidents"
    it also re-sparked interest in math.
    and finally, after ALL THOSE YEARS WASTED IN SCHOOL, i understand
    why algebra is so important.

    in my book, if a teacher answers my question of "why should i learn algebra" with "you might need it later in life, you never know"
    they get an F.
    the correct answer is "because if you decide to become a programmer,
    or an engineer later in life, it is vital to calculating how force is applied
    over time. with basic arithmetics, you can only calculate amounts."
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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  32. #31  
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    To the OP.

    You are able to communicate with us, like this, because people went to school. They learned and made it possible for you to live in a world where you can idley cuss the institutions that created it.

    So I think a fairer poll would be:
    Is school a waste of time for some people?

    And on that I would partially agree. The traditional school structure is not best for everyone. But some form of learning of skills, knowledge and discipline is essential, if you want to succeed in any field.

    Also, don't forget that school teaches you one important skill set: Problem Solving.
    No matter what you end up doing in life you will need to solve problems, be they emotional, physical, mathmatical or whatever. The more ways you can learn to solve problems, the easier it will be to deal with the shit life throws at you.

    One last thing re: your typing.
    It may be amusing and quick for you now, but when you are in the army or later in life and you write like that, you will feel like a chump who wished he'd concentrated a little more in English class.

    my 2c to this interesting post.
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  33. #32  
    Forum Ph.D. Hanuka's Avatar
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    Communication has nothing to do with school, as human beings we are learning to adapt to society at a very early age and school has nothing to do with it, look at me for example, I didnt know ANY english before i started playing computer games, now as an expert gamer I'm the best english student in my class... no, scratch that, I'm the best english student at my school!

    I can teach the english teachers words that they dont even know... I recall one test the stupid english teacher failed me one question because I've written her the word "via" whcih she didnt knew.

    And as for my typing, I can type as a PhD in english if I just wish to... which I dont... so 570p bu991n9 m3 m4n.... :?
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    i'm also a non-native english speaker. i'm from norway, hvor de fleste snakker norsk.

    as you get older, it gets more painful to be "taught" english by people who's linguistical fidelity is clearly inferior to your own.
    it happened to me in school. and now i'm fully capable of expressing myself in the english language half of the native speaking world is incapable of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    i'm from norway, hvor de fleste snakker norsk.
    Jeg er fra Storbritannien, where most people speak English.

    The sad thing is that a lot of people here speak only English.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    hm... lol, well I never though about it this way before, I guess that sometimes my typing does sound a little bit as Ali-G speaking
    But I`m doing it for me own sake as when I type this way I can get more words into the text in shorter time... basically... I type faster this way xD
    Interesting. So, you right for yourself,, not for others.
    You are interested in making things easy for you to express, not for others to understand.
    If you have no desire to communicate clearly you will soon find that others have no wish to hear what you have to say.
    But that is your choice.

    On your general points about hating school, you seem more to hate learning because you can't see the point of it. I hope you see the error of this approach before it condemns you to a life of boredom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    hm... lol, well I never though about it this way before, I guess that sometimes my typing does sound a little bit as Ali-G speaking
    But I`m doing it for me own sake as when I type this way I can get more words into the text in shorter time... basically... I type faster this way xD
    Interesting. So, you right for yourself,, not for others.
    You are interested in making things easy for you to express, not for others to understand.
    If you have no desire to communicate clearly you will soon find that others have no wish to hear what you have to say.
    But that is your choice.

    On your general points about hating school, you seem more to hate learning because you can't see the point of it. I hope you see the error of this approach before it condemns you to a life of boredom.
    Hey!
    Dont you lecture me, I write how I want when and where I want so dont that that you're better then me just because English is your native tongue.
    Belive you me that I can write ten times better the you so dont petronise, I have people like you who think that theya re better then others!

    Besides, my English is perfectly clear and I doubt that anyone has a hard time reading what I write.

    P.S. I hate to be the doom speaker, but its "write" not "right" :?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    i'm from norway, hvor de fleste snakker norsk.
    Jeg er fra Storbritannien, where most people speak English.

    The sad thing is that a lot of people here speak only English.
    so my point being, that here in norway, you're required to be taught english long after you are fully capable of expressing yourself with the english language, and able to develop on your own.
    in this digital day and age, the school system is extremely inflexible, holding onto antiquated methods of teaching.
    taking a free course on google videos is far more effective than going somewhere on a course, both because the tutor standard is higher (everyone can get a berkeley-class tuition course through google videos)
    and because you can take part in some of your favorite activities, or take the course at work, while at the gym etc. or simply when you have nothing better to do.
    and if theres something with the course that was not fleshed out in a particular way that made it easier for you to understand, you can do a quick google search, and bang, you're back on track.
    for those interested in palaeontology, theres the BBC series walking with dinosaurs,
    which serves as a great introduction to the subject.

    the most important part is interest. most classrooms doesn't inspire interest at all, you never find yourself marveling at the subject matter,
    mostly you're just sitting there marveling at what you're going to be doing after school.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    And as for my typing, I can type as a PhD in english if I just wish to...
    I highly doubt this.

    Belive you me that I can write ten times better the you so dont petronise
    Believe you me, Ophiolite can write circles around you.

    I have people like you who think that theya re better then others!
    Where do you keep them? Oh... you mean "hate". So you hate people who think they're better than others? Hm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    And as for my typing, I can type as a PhD in english if I just wish to...
    Belive you me that I can write ten times better the you so dont petronise
    Yeah...

    Besides, my English is perfectly clear and I doubt that anyone has a hard time reading what I write.
    Hasn't half of this discussion been about how people don't understand what you're saying?
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    Sorry for the double post...

    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    (everyone can get a berkeley-class tuition course through google videos)
    Can you interact with the Berkeley professors? Do they give you the time of day when you e-mail them? (Have you even tried?) Interpersonal interaction is invaluable in instruction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    i watched a great 24 hour lecture on physics, while working, on google videos.
    its what re-sparked my interest in knowledge.
    it was a lecture from berkeley called "physics for future presidents"
    it also re-sparked interest in math.
    and finally, after ALL THOSE YEARS WASTED IN SCHOOL, i understand
    why algebra is so important.
    And after ALL THOSE YEARS, now aren't you glad you learned a basic understanding of algebra?

    I have a few general comments.

    1. I think you guys are being a little unfair to teachers. Many teachers love their job, and try their hardest every day to get kids excited about learning while working within the bounds of tight budgets (at public schools) and various rules and regulations. They don't think that what they're teaching is useless and could be learned by any student by themselves in a month, otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they do. There are some bad teachers out there, don't get me wrong, and perhaps even some good teachers could use a few tips on making their material more relatable to their students. But they don't deserve such condemnation en masse.

    2. What high school does is lay the basic groundwork of understanding for future learning. Though I may not agree with how this is done in many schools, I recognize its importance, and I think you guys should too. It may be basic and rote and seemingly unimportant, but it is the foundation for the future. Which, again, is why I think some adjustments are needed, because it so important. The current culture of teaching doesn't really do that good of a job of explaining why its so important.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    Amen, paralith!
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    Quote Originally Posted by serpicojr
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    And as for my typing, I can type as a PhD in english if I just wish to...
    I highly doubt this.

    Belive you me that I can write ten times better the you so dont petronise
    Believe you me, Ophiolite can write circles around you.

    I have people like you who think that theya re better then others!
    Where do you keep them? Oh... you mean "hate". So you hate people who think they're better than others? Hm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    And as for my typing, I can type as a PhD in english if I just wish to...
    Belive you me that I can write ten times better the you so dont petronise
    Yeah...

    Besides, my English is perfectly clear and I doubt that anyone has a hard time reading what I write.
    Hasn't half of this discussion been about how people don't understand what you're saying?

    And you call this not petronising?? Snob.

    What tells you that this Ophiolite guy can write better then me, eh?!
    His post count merely tells me that he sits just too much time in front of his computer, typing. It has nothing to do with English knowledge.

    Besides, did you test us both in English?? No. You just made your assumptions on the way I write when I'm chillin`(which is most of the time) and compared it to your Ophiolite friend. And by the way you are protecting him I can't but help to think that you are his bed mate or something like this... jeez...
    Anyhow, until you have a cutting prove on this case that Ophiolite is better then me in English(or in anything else) you can just shut up and go kiss Ophiolite`s skinny ass until you do find it.

    ..Back to the topic..

    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    i watched a great 24 hour lecture on physics, while working, on google videos.
    its what re-sparked my interest in knowledge.
    it was a lecture from berkeley called "physics for future presidents"
    it also re-sparked interest in math.
    and finally, after ALL THOSE YEARS WASTED IN SCHOOL, i understand
    why algebra is so important.
    And after ALL THOSE YEARS, now aren't you glad you learned a basic understanding of algebra?

    I have a few general comments.

    1. I think you guys are being a little unfair to teachers. Many teachers love their job, and try their hardest every day to get kids excited about learning while working within the bounds of tight budgets (at public schools) and various rules and regulations. They don't think that what they're teaching is useless and could be learned by any student by themselves in a month, otherwise they wouldn't be doing what they do. There are some bad teachers out there, don't get me wrong, and perhaps even some good teachers could use a few tips on making their material more relatable to their students. But they don't deserve such condemnation en masse.

    2. What high school does is lay the basic groundwork of understanding for future learning. Though I may not agree with how this is done in many schools, I recognize its importance, and I think you guys should too. It may be basic and rote and seemingly unimportant, but it is the foundation for the future. Which, again, is why I think some adjustments are needed, because it so important. The current culture of teaching doesn't really do that good of a job of explaining why its so important.
    Well, I do agree with you... There are many teachers out there that deserve the respect of ours because they are indeed committed to their... um... 'trade'... and very often will try to do their best to get the students`s trust so he could tell them how important is the high school diploma, so if they want to get it they need to step up in their studies...

    Although they do deserve the respect for trying their hardest to convince students in the importance of high school diploma... It doesnt make this "diploma" a useless piece of paper when it comes to the real life(after high school I mean...).
    This diploma is only a cartificate to be someones worker... I still dont comprehand why there's so much fuss going around this useless piece of paper... Does all the students who crave for this diploma just want to fastest, most realible(well, not the most) way becoming someones worker, under the command of usually an s.o.b boss, working in a single place many years just to go in the ranks that the head chief dictates??

    If that's what the majority of people really want the I dunno what to say...

    Although... The world does need its workers... a world of only bosses just could not exist. But it doesn't mean that the people who dont want to go on the latter way arent just a bunch of sissies who are afraid that they will fail in their way to greatness so they perfare the safer way, which is being a worker.

    Just my 0.02$ for this bowl of pennies...
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    Hanuka, use proper English in just ONE post and we might entertain your assertion. 8)
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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    My previous post wasnt englishly correct?
    Dammit man, I thought I had it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    I'm the best english student in my class... no, scratch that, I'm the best english student at my school!
    I sympathize with you, Hanuka. If you were in a much better school, you’d probably like it a lot better.
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    Dont you start lecturing me, missy.
    My school is just fine, I choose to write like an orangutan at my own will, I can switch to write in a good English in a sec if I have the energy for it.

    And I dont hate schools, I hate the system for allowing schools to deliver good basic knowledge in such a useless fashion!
    But I still stend next to my point by saying that real knoweldge you learn by yourself. no more, no less.
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    I know you choose to write like that. You are not capable of writing better English anyway, so what else can you choose?
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    ooo... hear, hear!
    The English teacher has spoken!

    Mind yourself Bennet, before I'll open my big briefcase of 2nd degree burns!
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  50. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka

    And I dont hate schools, I hate the system for allowing schools to deliver good basic knowledge in such a useless fashion!
    But I still stend next to my point by saying that real knoweldge you learn by yourself. no more, no less.
    So, you ignore what has been learned by others in favor of what you can imagine today, by yourself?
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    On the contrary, I say that we should learn from people who researched things and passed it through books, lectures and other ways.
    The only thing that I resent is the way that the society contidions us to learn in public institutions which are tottaly messed up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    I know you choose to write like an orang-utan at your own will. You are not capable of writing better English than the orang-utan anyway, so what else can you choose?
    I don't think there's any need to insult people like that do you Jane?

    At least give our youngsters on this forum some space and freedom to learn without resorting to insults
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    I feel so petite...

    But still... people shoudn't think that they are better then someone else
    before they even tested them!
    ...scratch that... People shouldn't think that they are better then anyone else, ever!
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  54. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    I feel so petite...

    But still... people shoudn't think that they are better then someone else
    before they even tested them!
    Well there are some people who attempt to make themselves appear superior by making others appear inferior and i guess that's the lowest of the low and an old tactic easy to spot!

    Even some teachers attempt to do this.

    Good schooling i think depends on the teacher.

    Funny how my son loves the lessons where the teachers are 'great fun' and does well, but loathes the lessons where the teachers are 'horrible' and does badly.

    One of my motto's is 'don't let a bad teacher turn you off the subject'

    I remember the same experiences when i was at school.

    Unfortunately we can't choose our teachers but we can choose to ignore their method of teaching and focus instead on trying to love the subject

    Oh by the way Hanuka, on the subject of superiority complexes i noticed you were taking some knocks for your use of English?

    Well please notice this post that Ophiolite the moderator wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    hm... lol, well I never though about it this way before, I guess that sometimes my typing does sound a little bit as Ali-G speaking
    But I`m doing it for me own sake as when I type this way I can get more words into the text in shorter time... basically... I type faster this way xD
    Interesting. So, you right for yourself,, not for others.
    You are interested in making things easy for you to express, not for others to understand.
    If you have no desire to communicate clearly you will soon find that others have no wish to hear what you have to say.
    But that is your choice.

    On your general points about hating school, you seem more to hate learning because you can't see the point of it. I hope you see the error of this approach before it condemns you to a life of boredom.
    Notice the spelling mistake? I have made it bold.

    This is from an English speaker knocking you???

    I think considering English is your second language you write very well,

    just be careful of making too high claims about your abilities on here

    Some of those with the said complexes on this forum are like vultures and only too ready to rip to shreds anyone who get's the slightest thing wrong.

    After all, it makes them feel so much superior and they NEVER get anything wrong

    Do they?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    The only thing that I resent is the way that the society contidions us to learn in public institutions which are tottaly messed up.
    You'll need to explain what you mean by "messed up?"

    Schools educate, they don't indoctrinate, unless of course, you attend a faith based school.
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  56. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    people shoudn't think that they are better than someone else
    before they even tested them!
    ...scratch that... People shouldn't think that they are better than anyone else, ever!
    That includes you. Your English is nowhere near perfect, yet you stubbornly insist that it is. This is just being arrogant. My advice to you is to follow what Selene tells you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    just be careful of making too high claims about your abilities on here
    Anyway, I agree with you on this point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    And I don't hate schools, I hate the system for allowing schools to deliver good basic knowledge in such a useless fashion!
    But I still stand next to my point by saying that real knoweldge you learn by yourself. no more, no less.
    Same with me. Much as I have learnt from school, there are still many things that I’ve learnt on my own that I didn’t at school – and I find that learning on my own is what suits me best. Maybe it’s just that I hate routines – and going to school involves sticking to rigid routines – whereas I find it far less pressurizing to go at my own pace. Sometimes you are in the mood to study, sometimes you’re not – by learning at my own pace, I can study more when I’m in the mood, and take a rest when I’m not.

    Don’t get me wrong, though. I do not hate school either; on the contrary I’m very grateful to school for teaching me much of the knowledge that I have. I’m only saying that I learn much better on my own than by sticking to rigid schedules.
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    If you quit school you have to do it for the right reasons. If you got a job waiting, sure, why not. After all, most people go to school so they can get a job, not so that they can actually learn something.

    I did my 12 years, but the reason why I today consider myself intelligent and well read got little to do with what I learned in school.

    But if you think you'll get far in life without school and without self learning your mistaken.

    You need knowledge, but you don't need school to get it.
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  58. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    What tells you that this Ophiolite guy can write better then me, eh?!
    His post count merely tells me that he sits just too much time in front of his computer, typing. It has nothing to do with English knowledge.

    Besides, did you test us both in English?? No. You just made your assumptions on the way I write when I'm chillin`(which is most of the time) and compared it to your Ophiolite friend. And by the way you are protecting him I can't but help to think that you are his bed mate or something like this... jeez...
    Anyhow, until you have a cutting prove on this case that Ophiolite is better then me in English(or in anything else) you can just shut up and go kiss Ophiolite`s skinny ass until you do find it.
    There is more to good writing than the avoidance of typos and grammatical errors. Vocabulary, clarity of expression and explanation, concise delivery of points, proper use of tone, organization and flow of thoughts, etc. You do tend to ramble in your posts, which is no great crime in itself, but Ophiolite has an extended history of well-written posts on this forum, and if asked to make a judgment at this point I would say that Ophiolite has so far proved himself to be, in general, a better writer than you.

    Fluency in a language and possessing a strong command of a language are not necessarily the same thing. Being able to write well is a learned skill that takes practice (which includes lots of time spent typing in front of a computer) and feedback from others, and is a very useful skill to have no matter what field you go into for your career. And for many fields, it's essential.

    Well, I do agree with you... There are many teachers out there that deserve the respect of ours because they are indeed committed to their... um... 'trade'... and very often will try to do their best to get the students`s trust so he could tell them how important is the high school diploma, so if they want to get it they need to step up in their studies...

    Although they do deserve the respect for trying their hardest to convince students in the importance of high school diploma... It doesnt make this "diploma" a useless piece of paper when it comes to the real life(after high school I mean...).
    This diploma is only a cartificate to be someones worker... I still dont comprehand why there's so much fuss going around this useless piece of paper...
    The piece of paper is not the point. The piece of paper is merely a physical representation of the successful completion of four years of education - and the education is far from useless. But that piece of paper isn't useless either - it's a way to prove to potential employers, to colleges and universities, that you have that education.

    Does all the students who crave for this diploma just want to fastest, most realible(well, not the most) way becoming someones worker, under the command of usually an s.o.b boss, working in a single place many years just to go in the ranks that the head chief dictates??
    You make it sound like working under a boss and earning your way up the ladder is a hellish sort of fate. I rather enjoy working (doing research in a biomedical laboratory) under my boss (an established and intelligent researcher in muscular dystrophy), and with further years of work and education I could one day run my own research lab. And those pieces of paper, those diplomas from my high school and my university, did a great deal to get me to this point.

    I think a lot of high school students think the working world will be like an extension of the life they already know - grueling, boring work that seems to have no point. I know that's what I thought. And, if you work at the cash register at McDonalds, maybe that's accurate. But for the most part, it isn't. High school is not at all a good representation of what real life is like, nor does high school make sure that its students understand this fact. And that's one of my primary complaints about it.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    people shoudn't think that they are better than someone else
    before they even tested them!
    ...scratch that... People shouldn't think that they are better than anyone else, ever!
    That includes you. Your English is nowhere near perfect, yet you stubbornly insist that it is. This is just being arrogant. My advice to you is to follow what Selene tells you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    just be careful of making too high claims about your abilities on here
    Anyway, I agree with you on this point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    And I don't hate schools, I hate the system for allowing schools to deliver good basic knowledge in such a useless fashion!
    But I still stand next to my point by saying that real knoweldge you learn by yourself. no more, no less.
    Same with me. Much as I have learnt from school, there are still many things that I’ve learnt on my own that I didn’t at school – and I find that learning on my own is what suits me best. Maybe it’s just that I hate routines – and going to school involves sticking to rigid routines – whereas I find it far less pressurizing to go at my own pace. Sometimes you are in the mood to study, sometimes you’re not – by learning at my own pace, I can study more when I’m in the mood, and take a rest when I’m not.

    Don’t get me wrong, though. I do not hate school either; on the contrary I’m very grateful to school for teaching me much of the knowledge that I have. I’m only saying that I learn much better on my own than by sticking to rigid schedules.
    There is no lower class forum being then then one that corrects and loathes on other peoples typos.
    I swear to god, one more stunt like this from you and ure dead.
    B1tch.

    *and let the swarm of criticisem be cast upon me...*
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  60. #59  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    I swear to god, one more stunt like this from you and ure dead.
    B1tch.
    What the fuck?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    There is no lower class forum being then than one that corrects and loathes on other people's typos.
    I swear to god, one more stunt like this from you and you're dead.
    B1tch.

    *and let the swarm of criticism be cast upon me...*
    A typo is a careless mistake. Your errors don’t seem to me to be careless mistakes. Look, you want to learn to type better English, right? Then I am helping you learn from your mistakes.
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  62. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    There is no lower class forum being then than one that corrects and loathes on other people's typos.
    I swear to god, one more stunt like this from you and you're dead.
    B1tch.

    *and let the swarm of criticism be cast upon me...*
    A typo is a careless mistake. Your errors don’t seem to me to be careless mistakes. Look, you want to learn to type better English, right? Then I am helping you learn from your mistakes.
    Think you're so slick, eh?
    Fine, think away.
    Good Brother
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  63. #62  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    There is no lower class forum being then than one that corrects and loathes on other people's typos.
    I swear to god, one more stunt like this from you and you're dead.
    B1tch.

    *and let the swarm of criticism be cast upon me...*
    A typo is a careless mistake. Your errors don’t seem to me to be careless mistakes. Look, you want to learn to type better English, right? Then I am helping you learn from your mistakes.
    Jane you're arguing with a teenager, just drop it and accept that no matter what you say you can't win lol.
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    EDIT: Never mind, forget what I said.
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    paralith wrote:

    And after ALL THOSE YEARS, now aren't you glad you learned a basic understanding of algebra?
    if i actually knew what i could use algebra for, i'd have paid more damn attention and actually tried to remember the stuff.
    the only thing i "learned" in school about algebra, is that you replaced numbers with letters, then tried to find out what numbers the letters was.

    and i never managed to reliably understand the reduction of algebra,

    simple stuff like x+1-x = y, find x, i was unable to figure out because of my fundamental lack of understanding negative numbers,
    nor did i have any will to figure it out by myself, because i saw no inherent benefit in it, only puzzles thrown at me by teachers to torture, and shift focus from things that i liked doing.
    of course its stupefyingly simple, just have to think of it in terms of
    (+x) (+1) (-x) = y
    x-x+1 = y
    y = 1
    6 years in school did NOTHING to help me understand those basic principles, teachers just kept piling on top all the other mathematics,
    so no, i'm not glad.
    those were 6 years of my childhood wasted behind a schoolbench.
    i also have heard testimonies from 3-4 engineers, asking them how much of what they learned at school, has been useful for them, they answer
    "nothing", when you finish school and go in as an apprentice, you basically have to learn how to everything.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    paralith wrote:

    And after ALL THOSE YEARS, now aren't you glad you learned a basic understanding of algebra?
    if i actually knew what i could use algebra for, i'd have paid more damn attention and actually tried to remember the stuff.
    the only thing i "learned" in school about algebra, is that you replaced numbers with letters, then tried to find out what numbers the letters was.

    and i never managed to reliably understand the reduction of algebra,

    simple stuff like x+1-x = y, find x, i was unable to figure out because of my fundamental lack of understanding negative numbers,
    nor did i have any will to figure it out by myself, because i saw no inherent benefit in it, only puzzles thrown at me by teachers to torture, and shift focus from things that i liked doing.
    of course its stupefyingly simple, just have to think of it in terms of
    (+x) (+1) (-x) = y
    x-x+1 = y
    y = 1
    6 years in school did NOTHING to help me understand those basic principles, teachers just kept piling on top all the other mathematics,
    so no, i'm not glad.
    those were 6 years of my childhood wasted behind a schoolbench.
    i also have heard testimonies from 3-4 engineers, asking them how much of what they learned at school, has been useful for them, they answer
    "nothing", when you finish school and go in as an apprentice, you basically have to learn how to everything.
    i like your way of thinking mate, i recall my last... 4-5 years of mathematics learning, it all sums up to the simple formula of x+y=z in its many different variations.
    man... they should just teach us this formula at the 4th grade and just let us be.

    p.s. bennet, rot in hell.
    Good Brother
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    Hanuka,

    I'm going to be frank here, and please take this post as guidance rather than an insult, but you need to really grow up. Your English is god awful, your idea that 'school is pointless' is half-baked and your flame wars with other members on here is just downright immature. Grow up please.
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  68. #67  
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    who the fuck are you?!
    who the hell do you think that you are that you allow yourself talking to me like that?!
    "dont take it as an insult" is an easy way to get out of a counter-burn, eh?
    well, dont take it as an insult, but go fuck yourself!

    the fact taht i dont have the energy to use capital letters and '`s between words like "aren't" and "don't" doesnt make my english... "English" suck!
    *stupid man in my thread....*
    Good Brother
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  69. #68  
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    Hanuka

    Who are these people?

    They are nothing but deflated egos trying to puff themselves up by ridiculing and poking fun at others.

    All they are trying to do is get a hit out of you, a reaction.

    I have met many such people in my life. Their lives are typically empty and lonely, embittered and frustrated.

    Passing on that bitterness to others through insults gives them temporary relief from their pitiful existence.

    They swaddle themselves in a belief in their own superiority and intellectuality to protect themselves from the possible reality that just might not be as gifted as they think they are.

    These people are easy to spot, because they are always so full of opinions of others they know nothing about and therefore are at liberty to make anything up to suit their grand imagination of them selves.

    They take solace when others trip and fall or make mistakes, and are glad when others do because it confirms to them the illusion of their own superiority.

    What they forget in this great illusion is that they themselves have tripped and fallen many times and made mistakes, and that this is the natural path to learning. Yet they would rather forget that in their quest to get above everyone else.
    In fact people like this are more likely to trample on others to get there.

    A person with real intellect would see through this illusion and would realize that there is no above or below, and there is no top or bottom.
    And such a person who wanted to get to a 'top' would know there would be no other way of getting there than to take everyone else with them.

    So a true intelligent being would not ridicule others or laugh at their falls, they would understand this was part of the journey and instead of pushing fools off rocks they would reach out a helping hand.

    Someone who takes the time and effort to ridicule you and point out that you behave as a child with the simple of intent of annoying you, do not realize that with this action alone they themselves are behaving immaturely.

    The best response you can give to these people is nothing. Just let it dissolve away from you. They are not worth it.

    To get annoyed and angry only serves to feed their ignorance and bitterness and shows you willing to bite on their bait. That's exactly the reaction they are trying to get.

    What's the definition of a troll?

    Someone who makes negative comments on forums in order to annoy others and get a reaction

    These people are the worst sorts of trolls, because they troll in a subtle way, accuse them of trolling and they'll deny it whilst swaddled in their smug superiority.

    Ignore them, keep posting, keep writing, keep making mistakes with your English because making mistakes is the path to getting it right.

    I have seen writers with English as their first language write terribly.

    Next time you come across abuse or insults, just wonder WHY that person, who doesn't know anything about you, feels the need to be insulting. It probably has more to do with them and how they are feeling about their selves rather than how they are feeling about you.

    So smile sweetly with compassion, ignore them and hope one day they might get over it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollutantofbeliefs
    Hanuka,

    I'm going to be frank here, and please take this post as guidance rather than an insult, but you need to really grow up. Your English is god awful, your idea that 'school is pointless' is half-baked and your flame wars with other members on here is just downright immature. Grow up please.
    Pollutantofbeliefs, you’re trying to talk sense into a 17-year-old kid who is acting like a 7-year-old and has an ego is bigger than his head. It’s not going to work.

    Don’t you see? Hanuka is just a spoilt brat and Selene is only encouraging his immature behaviour here. Why, earlier in this thread, I posted this …

    Quote Originally Posted by I
    Anyway, I agree with you on this point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    And I don't hate schools, I hate the system for allowing schools to deliver good basic knowledge in such a useless fashion!
    But I still stand next to my point by saying that real knoweldge you learn by yourself. no more, no less.
    Same with me. Much as I have learnt from school, there are still many things that I’ve learnt on my own that I didn’t at school – and I find that learning on my own is what suits me best. Maybe it’s just that I hate routines – and going to school involves sticking to rigid routines – whereas I find it far less pressurizing to go at my own pace. Sometimes you are in the mood to study, sometimes you’re not – by learning at my own pace, I can study more when I’m in the mood, and take a rest when I’m not.

    Don’t get me wrong, though. I do not hate school either; on the contrary I’m very grateful to school for teaching me much of the knowledge that I have. I’m only saying that I learn much better on my own than by sticking to rigid schedules.
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  71. #70  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by pollutantofbeliefs
    Hanuka,

    I'm going to be frank here, and please take this post as guidance rather than an insult, but you need to really grow up. Your English is god awful, your idea that 'school is pointless' is half-baked and your flame wars with other members on here is just downright immature. Grow up please.
    Pollutantofbeliefs, you’re trying to talk sense into a 17-year-old kid who is acting like a 7-year-old and has an ego is bigger than his head. It’s not going to work.

    Don’t you see? Hanuka is just a spoilt brat and Selene is only encouraging his immature behaviour here. Why, earlier in this thread, I posted this …

    Quote Originally Posted by I
    Anyway, I agree with you on this point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    And I don't hate schools, I hate the system for allowing schools to deliver good basic knowledge in such a useless fashion!
    But I still stand next to my point by saying that real knoweldge you learn by yourself. no more, no less.
    Same with me. Much as I have learnt from school, there are still many things that I’ve learnt on my own that I didn’t at school – and I find that learning on my own is what suits me best. Maybe it’s just that I hate routines – and going to school involves sticking to rigid routines – whereas I find it far less pressurizing to go at my own pace. Sometimes you are in the mood to study, sometimes you’re not – by learning at my own pace, I can study more when I’m in the mood, and take a rest when I’m not.

    Don’t get me wrong, though. I do not hate school either; on the contrary I’m very grateful to school for teaching me much of the knowledge that I have. I’m only saying that I learn much better on my own than by sticking to rigid schedules.
    … and all I got for it was to be called a “bitch”. Duh.
    And how old are you Jane?

    Surely you're wise enough to see how pathetic your behaviour and attitude appears?

    Haven't you got anything better to do, like some maths equations or lessons in pedantry, than let trivia stew you?

    You have attempted to make Hanuka look silly but you are making your self the biggest fool
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    I am not the only person who has pointed out Hanuka’s immaturity in this thread. Several people have all agreed that Hanuka needs to grow up. You seem to be the only one here who can’t see the wood for the trees. It is not making Hanuka look small – it just means that, given his inflated ego and his tantrum reactions to all the good advice that has been given to him, he needs a bigger kick up his behind than normal.

    You yourself, while mollycoddling him, have given him this very good piece of advice:

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    just be careful of making too high claims about your abilities on here
    Has he taken your advice yet? Is sweet-talking to him ever going to be effective, do you think?
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  73. #72  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    who the fuck are you?!
    who the hell do you think that you are that you allow yourself talking to me like that?!
    "dont take it as an insult" is an easy way to get out of a counter-burn, eh?
    well, dont take it as an insult, but go fuck yourself!

    the fact taht i dont have the energy to use capital letters and '`s between words like "aren't" and "don't" doesnt make my english... "English" suck!
    *stupid man in my thread....*
    Like I said, grow up please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Pollutantofbeliefs, you’re trying to talk sense into a 17-year-old kid who is acting like a 7-year-old and has an ego is bigger than his head. It’s not going to work.

    Don’t you see? Hanuka is just a spoilt brat and Selene is only encouraging his immature behaviour here.
    I know it will fall on deaf ears, as proven above. I just can't stand someone who's arrogant about their own ignorance. I'm not sure how this makes me a lonely and bitter man, Selene?
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  75. #74  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollutantofbeliefs
    I just can't stand someone who's arrogant about their own ignorance.
    Neither can I. I tend to stay out of disputes but this one is so bad I just could not avoid jumping in.
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  76. #75  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Selene, if you treat your children the same way you treat Hanuka here, I wouldn’t be surprised if they all turned out spoilt brats themselves. I just hope they don’t wander in here as well, because we don’t need any more of them here.
    I have always worked on the premise with my children as well as other peoples that the best way to encourage their better qualities is not by insults or trying to make them appear small.

    Youngsters make mistakes and overreact and as it is wise to point out their errors it is best done with positive tact.

    You obviously have no knowledge or wisdom in this area considering insults is the tactic you use.

    If you respond with negative insults to youngsters 'bad behaviour' what you get back is further negativity and more of the same 'bad behaviour'

    Hanuka became abusive after you insulted him and attempted to make him feel small. So what sort of reaction did you expect?

    YOU should have known better, but instead you further antagonized him and therefore you have made your self the fool.

    Hanuka is young and is learning to know better. What's your excuse?

    Instead you persistently with your insults. If you want to make yourself feel clever at the expense of someone else then get yourself a cat to tease.

    I do hope that you yourself never have any dealings children whilst using this ploy as I'm sure you would contribute to the already overwhelming need for Social Service intervention.

    My son serves as an example of my child-raising capabilities and is neither a brat or a delinquent.

    Currently, as i write he is training for the weekend for his Bronze DofE.
    He excels at school. He will soon be beginning a BTEC citizenship qualification.
    And for his last birthday when he had a party, he requested, off his own back, that instead of bringing gifts his friends contributed money so he could raise funds for new toys for the children's ward at the hospital.

    Now does that sound like the definition of a brat to you?

    You see, this is exactly what people like you do. You insult others with imagined speculation which amounts to fantasy that you know exactly what others are and do, and all this to glorify the sense of your own smug superiority from the safety and isolation of your keyboard.

    Get real Jane, wake up and go and mingle with real life and real people instead of submerging yourself in fantasy and illusion.


    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    I am not the only person who has pointed out Hanuka’s immaturity in this thread. Several people have concurred that Hanuka needs to grow up. You seem to be the only one here who can’t see the wood for the trees. It is not making Hanuka look small – it just means that, given his tantrum reactions to all the good advice that has been given to him, he needs a bigger kick up his behind than normal.
    And you're the one to kick his behind are you?

    Excuse me while i laugh Jane but i don't think so and i think you need to get down off that pedestal before you have a nasty fall.



    I can see exactly what's going on and exactly what you are trying to do, and it is tactless, shallow and pathetic.

    When you first joined the forum i had respect for you, and you seem to have a lot of knowledge in lots of areas, but after you're behaviour with Hanuka you have become nothing in my estimation.

    You may have demonstrated yourself knowledgeable in many areas but unfortunately you have demonstrated little wisdom or understanding in dealing with other human beings.
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  77. #76  
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    Funny how you keep changing your mind with your posts Jane

    re-editing them and emitting some of the insulting remarks

    Ah let's hope then you are finally learning from your own mistakes.

    One day
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  78. #77  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Hanuka became abusive after you insulted him and attempted to make him feel small. So what sort of reaction did you expect?
    Hanuka had already been abusive before I first posted here (see his post about Ophiolite’s post count for example). Therefore I was not the one who set off the explosion. Please get your facts right.

    Anyway, I see that you are willing to admit that Hanuka’s behaviour in this thread is by no means saint-like. You admit that he’s been abusive and OTT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Ah let's hope then you are finally learning from your own mistakes.
    Yeah, see my reply to Hanuka’s post below.
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  79. #78  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Hanuka

    Who are these people?

    They are nothing but deflated egos trying to puff themselves up by ridiculing and poking fun at others.

    All they are trying to do is get a hit out of you, a reaction.

    I have met many such people in my life. Their lives are typically empty and lonely, embittered and frustrated.

    Passing on that bitterness to others through insults gives them temporary relief from their pitiful existence.

    They swaddle themselves in a belief in their own superiority and intellectuality to protect themselves from the possible reality that just might not be as gifted as they think they are.

    These people are easy to spot, because they are always so full of opinions of others they know nothing about and therefore are at liberty to make anything up to suit their grand imagination of them selves.

    They take solace when others trip and fall or make mistakes, and are glad when others do because it confirms to them the illusion of their own superiority.

    What they forget in this great illusion is that they themselves have tripped and fallen many times and made mistakes, and that this is the natural path to learning. Yet they would rather forget that in their quest to get above everyone else.
    In fact people like this are more likely to trample on others to get there.

    A person with real intellect would see through this illusion and would realize that there is no above or below, and there is no top or bottom.
    And such a person who wanted to get to a 'top' would know there would be no other way of getting there than to take everyone else with them.

    So a true intelligent being would not ridicule others or laugh at their falls, they would understand this was part of the journey and instead of pushing fools off rocks they would reach out a helping hand.

    Someone who takes the time and effort to ridicule you and point out that you behave as a child with the simple of intent of annoying you, do not realize that with this action alone they themselves are behaving immaturely.

    The best response you can give to these people is nothing. Just let it dissolve away from you. They are not worth it.

    To get annoyed and angry only serves to feed their ignorance and bitterness and shows you willing to bite on their bait. That's exactly the reaction they are trying to get.

    What's the definition of a troll?

    Someone who makes negative comments on forums in order to annoy others and get a reaction

    These people are the worst sorts of trolls, because they troll in a subtle way, accuse them of trolling and they'll deny it whilst swaddled in their smug superiority.

    Ignore them, keep posting, keep writing, keep making mistakes with your English because making mistakes is the path to getting it right.

    I have seen writers with English as their first language write terribly.

    Next time you come across abuse or insults, just wonder WHY that person, who doesn't know anything about you, feels the need to be insulting. It probably has more to do with them and how they are feeling about their selves rather than how they are feeling about you.

    So smile sweetly with compassion, ignore them and hope one day they might get over it.
    At last!
    A single soul is finally on my side :-D

    I agree with you Selene, with my experiance at other forums(and apperantly this one too...) people who find that they are in an argument with a younger mate, they have the same damn tactic which is pointing out the opponents age...
    Here there Bennet used the less known technique of calling one an orang-utan which added a bit to the variety of insults against me...
    But the again, the "you're young and stupid, I'm big and smart" technique punched its way through and ramained the ruler until now...

    Its funny Jane, that when I call you a bitch you seem to be quite offended, but when you call me an orangutan it's all fine by you...

    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Pollutantofbeliefs, you’re trying to talk sense into a 17-year-old kid who is acting like a 7-year-old and has an ego is bigger than his head. It’s not going to work.

    Don’t you see? Hanuka is just a spoilt brat and Selene is only encouraging his immature behaviour here.
    Me? Ego??
    Ha!
    If I reckon` it is you who started throwing insults 1st.
    The only thing that I asked before I started throwing mine was a proof that this Ophiolite guy is better then me in English.

    And when I said that I was the best English student at my school you laughed at me and told me that my school is crappy... jeez Bennet, why won't you tell us to what school you went to??
    Maybe we have a deal here with a PhD at English literature... Who knows...

    Let me tell you this Bennet, there are far more complicated skills then grammatically correct English...
    73ll /\/\3 7|-|15 J4n3, |-|0\/\/ 900d 4r3 y0u 47 9r4mm471c4lly c0rr3c7 1337 5p34k??

    How good is your kung-fu?
    How are your interent marketing skillz, missy?
    ..How good is your Hebrew? Arabic??

    Tell me this Jane... What are your plans for the future?... I know that mine are of great scale, but what are yours??

    btw, I'm all but a spoilt brat, I've worked hard enough to get where I am now.
    After all... How many 17 year-olds do you know that earn 500$/day(and growing)??

    Before you make an assumption that someone is indeed useless I suggest scanning him until the end.

    P.S. Jane, you should really start working on your people skillz... man...

    P.S.S. Arrogant people usually like to drop out from an argument thread which they are loosing by saying something like "I don't have energy for this nonsense, I'll speak to you no more" or "fuck you, im gone!"...
    Just a heads up before it actually happens...

    If you excuse me now.. I'm gonna take a nap.
    Good Brother
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  80. #79  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    Its funny Jane, that when I call you a bitch you seem to be quite offended, but when you call me an orangutan it's all fine by you...
    No, I was not offended. I just thought it was funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    btw, I'm all but a spoilt brat, I've worked hard enough to get where I am now.
    After all... How many 17 year-olds do you know that earn 500$/day(and growing)??
    Congratulations! Well done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    P.S. Jane, you should really start working on your people skillz... man...
    Okay, I will. Thanks for the tip.

    Anyway, Hanuka, your last post is much, much better than some of your previous posts. See? If you post “maturely” and not get into childish tantrums, people (like me) will be more inclined to listen to you. If we keep this up, we can even become friends. :-D

    Well, we’re not perfect. We all make mistakes. I think this storm first blew up when someone (not me) criticized your English and you reacted in a tantrum. You should to learn to reply to criticisms in a less violent way. As for me, I myself need to learn to interact better with people (as both you and Selene have pointed out). That’s my next target in life, I suppose. And that’s what we’re all here to for: to learn from our mistakes. 8)
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  81. #80  
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    Jane

    I've worked with young people all my life as a trained youth worker running clubs for young people from age 6 to 18

    I've worked for several years with social services helping teenagers who were excluded from school

    One of the first things we are taught is how best to get positive results from not just these kids, but any kids.

    Insulting or kicking arse just does not work

    And in fact it doesn't work with anyone young or old

    You simply get a negative reaction back and nothing of the results of which you might have hoped for. It does more harm than good.

    Your more likely to get a fuck off and fuck you!

    If you're going to critisize anyone it's better if it's constructive and you begin with a positive reference to their good qualities.

    Hanuka deserved praise for learning English and his attempts to write on an English speaking forum.

    And considering that most of what he writes is easy to read.

    He would have been far more likely to have received good advice on where any of his errors were with this procedure.

    Was that your real intention? To help him?

    No it obviously wasn't. Describing someone as an Orangutan?

    I mean really come on!

    And then you have the nerve to describe Hanuka as childish?

    Do you not think Hanuka might have a bit more lee-way here than you have, who professes to be mature and therefore should respond to that effect?

    This is my last posting on here because it's getting ridiculously tit for tat.

    I've said my piece and cast my thoughts on the subject, do with them whatever you will

    I can only hope that from now on Hanuka will join me in ignoring your further posts and insults on this matter.

    In contrast you appear hell-bent on persisting in this weird rapport as if you get some kind of sadistic satisfaction from it.

    I think it is better if you focus on having a discussion with yourself and perhaps you can begin to ask yourself what your real intentions were in those initial remarks to Hanuka.

    Friendly? Considerate? Helpful?
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  82. #81  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    I can only hope that from now on Hanuka will join me in ignoring your further posts and insults on this matter.

    In contrast you appear hell-bent on persisting in this weird rapport as if you get some kind of sadistic satisfaction from it.
    You obviously didn’t read my last post to Hanuka, in which I offered the olive branch. In contrast you appear hell-bent on jumping to conclusions about any post I make here. What the fuck is the matter with you and your holier-than-thou attitude? Please go and read my last post to Hanuka. I’ve solved my issue with Hanuka – and that’s all I care about. I don’t have to deal with people like you who have other issues as well.
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  83. #82  
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    Well... Since Jane decided to go on the friendly path it would be
    unwise for me not to do the same...

    For the future please remember Jane;
    Age has nothing to do with intelligence, although with age does come life experiance and some intelligence but it doesn't mean that a 10 year old can't be smarter then a 70 year old.
    All is possible in life.

    With that said, I think that you'll agree that we are way off topic here... Besides... We're just 2 votes away from a tie :-D

    Peace,
    tony
    Good Brother
    ~~~~~~~~~~
    The truths that matter to us the most are often left half-spoken..
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  84. #83  
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    Thank you, Tony.
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  85. #84  
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    Well done Tony

    A good heart always shines through

    Back to the issue of school

    I have fond memories of school and some of the Teachers were great.

    But mostly i made some good friends at school and had some fun times i will never forget!

    Learning doesn't just happen in the class room. In fact looking back i would say i learned more out of the classroom and after i left school!

    It's a good way of keeping kids off the streets and out of mischief though
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  86. #85  
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    any fond memories i might have of school is drowned in bad memories.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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  87. #86 School 
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    I personally love my classes at school, the only thing that tends to hold me back is the fact that the schoolboard levels the classes at what the majority of young adults can achieve (or will bother to try and achieve) ultimately slowing down the learning process and making it into a drag of repetitive teaching and frustrated teachers that can't teach children who won't listen. I spent a year of homeschooling once, and it was the best teaching I ever got. The program allowed self-teaching, and online resources. It also allowed being able to learn in a quiet, non-violent atmosphere that's impossible to achieve in an average American public high-school. If it weren't for the social aspect that we have to endure from immature cliche's and fad's in high-school, along with the amount of young adults in class that are too high/drunk to function, it'd be heaven.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.
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  88. #87  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    I can only hope that from now on Hanuka will join me in ignoring your further posts and insults on this matter.

    In contrast you appear hell-bent on persisting in this weird rapport as if you get some kind of sadistic satisfaction from it.
    You obviously didn’t read my last post to Hanuka, in which I offered the olive branch. In contrast you appear hell-bent on jumping to conclusions about any post I make here. What the fuck is the matter with you and your holier-than-thou attitude? Please go and read my last post to Hanuka and stop being a whining old cow!
    Amazing yet again how you keep changing your post

    Adding the fuck and the cow bit

    You must have been stewing about this over the past couple of days

    How very vindictive
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  89. #88  
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    People please.. How can adults/nearly adults let such a normal thread run so far out of hand?

    First remark: This is an international forum, it is in no way limited to native speakers of English.

    All of you know this, but a lot of people have not acted on this in this thread. I will not tolerate if non-native speakers are made to feel uncomfortable here.

    Hanuka overreacted to the taunts he recieved, there's no excuse for threatening people with death.. But don't underestimate the amount of trouble a non-native speaker has to go through to learn English at a sufficient level to take part in forum discussions. Whatever the time invested, they are still at a disadvantage when dealing with native speakers. This can be extremely frustrating, so I expect everyone to take this into consideration. Even a seemingly innocent taunt can be enough to take away someone's confidence in their language abilities, which is a very serious issue.

    I'm not blaming anyone in specific for starting the flaming. Both sides should've reacted in a more detached way to criticism rather than making it a personal issue.

    By the way I'm very disappointed that nobody took the trouble to notify a moderator earlier. This has been allowed to go on for several days, while we should've been notified the moment the first insult was uttered. We are simply unable to monitor every thread in depth, without notifications we are almost powerless. Please keep this in mind.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    To get this thread on the road again: what aspects of the school system (rather systems) should be changed to make students more motivated?

    Would it help to separate talented from less talented students at secondary school / high school, to provide them with an education that better suits their needs? We have such a separated or layered system in the Netherlands and I personally think it can solve a lot of these issues (while also creating some new ones).
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