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Thread: does the universe really have a choice?

  1. #1 does the universe really have a choice? 
    Forum Freshman piok_opze's Avatar
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    not really an expert on physics/ chemistry...but as far as my v.limited knowledge makes me understand:

    all matter is made of atoms, and such. and all atoms behave in a standard, uniform way when subject to the exactly same conditions. as simple example, when u take 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen atoms, (and put them under watever condition thats required) it always results in a water molecule. and thats always the result under the same condition. ofcourse there are very many variables that exist, but when all those variable become a constant, creating THAT condition, the result is always the same.

    under such a scenario, isn't all universe, life and everything included, always destined to roll out this way, as we currently see it. that nothing would been any different. all events from the point the universe was created until now and in future will always be the same, no matter what.

    does anyone believe/think of it this way?
    i have lot lots to add to this, but dont wanna make the first post long.


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  3. #2  
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    very subjective.

    Are you the subject or is reality the subject?


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  4. #3  
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    quite an interesting point. I always considered why the universe is so perfect for us. but then i came across multiverse theory which got me thinking
    perhaps there are an uncountable amount of different universes. in all different universes the elements or perhaps one element differs slightly meaning water won't be formed or something so life can't exist.
    perhaps the chemicals are the way they are because we are there to observe it.
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  5. #4  
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    That's an interesting theory. However I think that just because matter in the universe behaves in a very specific way, does not mean that everything is predetermined to only turn out the way it has. Matter is only one part of the universe (even if it is what the universe is made of) what about sentience? We like to think we have a choice in our daily actions. If everything in the universe is predetermined then where does free will enter?
    "People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people."
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  6. #5  
    Forum Freshman piok_opze's Avatar
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    streamSystems, for now lets keep "me", (and as a result the universe and all thats a part of it, and it exists), as the subject.

    i also came across the multi-universe theory, and that would infact make this "idea" very true. each one of those universe would unfold in a different way, because under a certain condition, a different outcome results. and pick a specific one out of those many universes, where 2H+O=H2O, and we are back to where we are. its just that we dont know if multiple universes exists. and like i said above, if we consider our universe as we see it now, then i gez the result is a constant(?!)

    dimension, as far as in can understand, the whole universe is defined by matter (and the lack of it). sentience, as we term it, is an ability that i think exists only in v.v.highly evolved organisms. so long before humans evolved, when earth had only single celled life, or even when there was no life, how can free will and sentience play a role? i cant think of any other thing than matter that could possibly exist or alter the universe..
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    We often think of this universe as "perfect" for us, but isn't that so because we've evolved in this universe? In a different universe (where it would be impossible for us to live) there might be another organism thinking the same thing, "This universe is perfect for us."

    Or are we talking about something else?
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by piok_opze
    dimension, as far as in can understand, the whole universe is defined by matter (and the lack of it). sentience, as we term it, is an ability that i think exists only in v.v.highly evolved organisms. so long before humans evolved, when earth had only single celled life, or even when there was no life, how can free will and sentience play a role? i cant think of any other thing than matter that could possibly exist or alter the universe..
    You're right. In the beginning sentience did not play a roll. However now we are sentient and therefore it does. Perhaps the universe had no choice as to how it was to unfold up to a certain point. But the fact is that now there is at least one sentient species in the universe and therefore we have now added a variable. As soon as sentience is introduced the dynamics of the question have changed.
    "People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people."
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  9. #8  
    Forum Masters Degree organic god's Avatar
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    the path the universe takes is perhaps determined by those who observe it.
    which in this case would be humans and maybe some aliens out there.
    everything is mathematical.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman piok_opze's Avatar
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    just curious.
    as long as all the observers are inside, part of, and physically defined by a system (in this case, the universe) is it still possible of them to observe differently?
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  11. #10  
    Forum Sophomore GrowlingDog's Avatar
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    Interesting that we talk about the fact that man, because of his being sentient, has the ability to choose his path. If the universe is sentient or is being operated, created by a sentient being/beings, then maybe they have choice as well.
    If you are a computer programmer building a game, then you get to set the laws that govern the game and how it "works". You also get to delete the whole lot and start over again if your not happy with it. If there is a sentience at work with regards to the nature of the universe, i do hope it doesn't press delete just yet. :-D
    Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.
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