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Thread: School uniform

  1. #1 School uniform 
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    What do people think of school uniforms?

    having one stops a students freedom of expression,and freedom is the souls right to breath.

    but then again it can instill a community atmosphere and makes it harder for any weirdos to walk off with you.

    It also stops the inevitable competition, with rich kids laughing at poor kids.

    any other benefits or problems you guys can think of.
    I'm interested in your ideas


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  3. #2 Re: School uniform 
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    What do people think of school uniforms?

    having one stops a students freedom of expression,and freedom is the souls right to breath.

    but then again it can instill a community atmosphere and makes it harder for any weirdos to walk off with you.

    It also stops the inevitable competition, with rich kids laughing at poor kids.

    any other benefits or problems you guys can think of.
    I'm interested in your ideas
    Well, the rich kids would still laught at the poor ones. If they couldn't compare clothes, they would compare watches, family cars, houses...
    There will always be bullying in schools. If someone wants to bully someone, the bullier will make up a reason. School uniforms won't reduce it.


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    That is correct, but a school uniform is a symbol of place in society. If you ask me, kids these days get far more freedom that they should.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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    It seems to me that the main idea of school uniforms is to make everyone more 'equal,' though as Elina pointed out, differences will still be recognized and still cause problems. I'm definitely against the idea of school uniforms, it's terrible to make everyone conform to one style, squashing individuality and creativity.
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  6. #5  
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    I wore a school uniform. I am in favour of school uniforms for all the conventional reasons. It is useful for children to learn that a productive society benefits from a mix of convention and uniformity on the one hand with radicalism and individuality on the other.
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    I'm with Ophi.
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  8. #7  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Try going to a job interview with your ass hanging out and see how successful you are.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    irrelevant post
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    Try going to a job interview with your ass hanging out and see how successful you are.
    That all depends on what kind of job your being interviewed for :wink:

    I think the question is how much of social interactions is about what you wear. I find that clothes, especially with the female specimen, play an important part of attraction. In fact, i'd almost argue, that contrary to belief, clothes increase female and male sexuality, not decrease it.
    But school is not the place for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    irrelevant post
    OK Kid, whatever you say.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    irrelevant post
    What was irrelevant about it? It seemed explicitly and implicitly spot on, to me.
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    There are no negative points to a school uniform in my opinion. If you believe that they cannot express their individuality you have to remember that a lot of conformity takes place at young age. The benefits are I'd say that no pupil within the school feels different, even if they disagree they all still feel connected someway, I did. It also teaches children to be formal which without that education would lead to being unable to dress accordingly for say work, due to lack of experience.
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  14. #13  
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    Try going to a job interview with your ass hanging out and see how successful you are.
    no one is going to go to a job interview with there ass hanging out. so one count it is irrelevant because its unrealistic

    secondly the debate is about school uniform. a job interview isn't really relevant.

    it doesn't seem to contribute to the debate so i cant see how it is relevant
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    I disagree, the chronological effects of wearing a school uniform will have effects when it comes to understanding how job interviews work. Appearences. If you look a sack of crap you ain't gettin' the job. I believe job interviews are a relevant look at what happens if school uniforms are not protocol in school years, there will be a drag on effect for when the child becomes older.

    Of course if you want to talk about school itself and school uniform with it alone and leave after affects to contribute to your original post, I will .
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I disagree, the chronological effects of wearing a school uniform will have effects when it comes to understanding how job interviews work. Appearences. If you look a sack of crap you ain't gettin' the job. I believe job interviews are a relevant look at what happens if school uniforms are not protocol in school years, there will be a drag on effect for when the child becomes older.
    I disagree. Having to wear a school uniform may increase the likelihood that a child will dress nicely in the future, but it's not necessary. I never had to wear a uniform and I like dressy clothes. Nor did I ever want to appear inappropriately dressed. Children do have parents after all, and if I was unsure what was best for the situation, I'd ask my mother.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    I didn't have a mother. A real mother I could talk to anyway.

    A lot of people in this world have not got their parents to help them with everything. People have to learn things themselves and school uniform is one way to learn formality without asking mummy or daddy, no offense paralith.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I didn't have a mother. A real mother I could talk to anyway.

    A lot of people in this world have not got their parents to help them with everything. People have to learn things themselves and school uniform is one way to learn formality without asking mummy or daddy, no offense paralith.
    And how does being told to wear a uniform by an adult teacher count as "learning things themselves" any more than learning from your parents? That makes no sense, svwillmer.

    All I'm saying is that there are other ways that kids can learn about dressing appropriately; I don't believe school uniforms to be 100% necessary in that respect. I didn't need my mummy's help to figure out that I personally prefer to look more put together than not.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    But uniforms being compulsory can influence pupils without their awareness of why they actually are wearing formal clothing. Then again that assumption is based on the fact that schools do have an agenda behind wearing school uniforms. School uniforms aren't 100% neccesary in that respect as you say, but are in the least 90%, of course that depends on your own personal life and if you are used to dressing formally outside of school as well.

    You say you prefer smarter attire, I am on the same page as you with that, perhaps then if school uniform does not influence this desire, what would in your opinion be the influencer?
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    You say you prefer smarter attire, I am on the same page as you with that, perhaps then if school uniform does not influence this desire, what would in your opinion be the influencer?
    I'm not sure - like I said, I've never had to wear a school uniform and I've never personally known someone who did. I suppose that if you were used to wearing a school uniform, wearing a "monkey suit" every day at your office job would be easier to get used to. I think the influence on preferences would be less clear. Some may come to resent the uniform and formality in general, others may embrace it.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    From a parents point of view i am very glad my son has to wear a school uniform.

    I don't get whittled for starters for the latest fashion which costs a fortune. My son has just turned 13, and already i'm hearing ipod mantra's and wii's cos everyone else has got them!

    My son goes to an all boys school where they are very strict about school uniform even down to shoes. They don't tolerate shirts hanging out or fat ties hanging halfway down your chest (kids still use the uniform as status symbols, there are certain ways to wear everything!)
    But this school does it for good reason. It's purpose is to teach standards. They want the boys to be successful, and that means looking smart and having the right attitude. It certainly works. The school is a grammer turned state and charity funded and is in the top 5% nationally. It is the best school in Northampton and parents have fought tooth and nail to get their kids in their. The reason simply is because it has standards that many schools seem to be falling short of and encourages the kids by not tolerating shoddiness in dress, work or attitude.

    I think this is very important.

    School uniform goves them a sense of belonging at a time in their lives when belonging to a group is important. There is enough competitiveness with kids without giving them more to tease each other about by not having the right shirts or shoes.

    My son likes his school uniform and feels proud to wear it. It gives him a sense of identity. Of course he'll develop his own identity outside school and as he gets older, but it takes an awful lot of pressure off them, whilst wearing it.

    When he puts it on in the morning he get's into the persona of school and learning, like anyone who puts a uniform on. When he comes home from school, he sits down does his homework in his uniform because psychologically he's still 'at school',

    Believe me it never works to get him to try and do his homework after he's taken his uniform off!
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    I never dress particularly smart.

    it hasn't held me back at all because i'm judged on my academic performance and achievements, and who i am as a person.

    wearing a tie doesnt make a damn slight bit of difference
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    I never dress particularly smart.

    it hasn't held me back at all because i'm judged on my academic performance and achievements, and who i am as a person.

    wearing a tie doesnt make a damn slight bit of difference
    Depending on what field you're in, dressing up can be less important. When I was looking for a lab job, the advice for interviews was actually to avoid dressing up too much - but, it was still important to look put together. Other fields may require even less. Still, there's likely to be a certain number of times in anyone's life where it will be much to their advantage to dress appropriately. Sometimes, a tie can make a difference.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    I never dress particularly smart.

    it hasn't held me back at all because i'm judged on my academic performance and achievements, and who i am as a person.

    wearing a tie doesnt make a damn slight bit of difference
    Well it does make a difference actually.

    A uniform is symbollic. It enables a person to get into a particular psychological mode according to their dress.

    If this wasn't the case policemen would stop wearing nipple shaped hats, blue uniforms(black now? gosh haven't been arrested enough!) with big shiny buttons, judges would stop looking like they're giving head to sheep and priests and vicars would rip up their vestments.

    School uniform (as any uniform) is a very powerful psychological tool to get the children to adhere to particular standards and behave in certain ways. Standards which are imposed for the childrens ultimate benefit.

    Do you have children?

    I am a parent and i have worked as teaching cover in schools.

    Believe me kids need standards and need encouraging by any possible means available. Including strictness and discipline.(no that doesn't mean spanking them! I only spank boys over 40)

    One of the lessons of being a parent and raising a child that's confident and content and bizzarely enough, independent, is by giving them rules, boundaries and guidelines.
    Kids need that! They love it!
    Without them they are all over the place.
    If they don't have these guidelines they will drive you nuts by totally testing you every minute into the loony bin trying to desperately discover what the boundaries are, if at all(and what they can get away with!)
    They need to know where they stand, what you expect, what you won't tolerate, and they need it in a caring environment, that has these rules in place for their benefit.

    Wearing a school uniform tells a child 'you are here to learn and there are certain standards to adhere to'

    These standards are about making an effort, giving it your best shot, being proud of who you are, joining in and being able to stand up for yourself.
    Having a school tie done up the right way is only a small part of this process.

    This liberalism and almost obsessive individualism that we've drifted into seesm to have brought with it a total fear of belonging to a group, organization etc. Almost like this atheistic aversion to the word God.

    You CAN be an individual within a group! Ironically you are MORE likely to become an individual within a group!

    Now get your head round that one (Paralith) Perhaps i should start a new thread about that in Philosophy...........
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    I never dress particularly smart.

    it hasn't held me back at all because i'm judged on my academic performance and achievements, and who i am as a person.

    wearing a tie doesnt make a damn slight bit of difference
    Depending on what field you're in, dressing up can be less important. When I was looking for a lab job, the advice for interviews was actually to avoid dressing up too much - but, it was still important to look put together. Other fields may require even less. Still, there's likely to be a certain number of times in anyone's life where it will be much to their advantage to dress appropriately. Sometimes, a tie can make a difference.
    We are talking about SCHOOL uniform here!

    Geezus Paralith can't you get out of the laboratory for just a minute?
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minxy
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    I never dress particularly smart.

    it hasn't held me back at all because i'm judged on my academic performance and achievements, and who i am as a person.

    wearing a tie doesnt make a damn slight bit of difference
    Depending on what field you're in, dressing up can be less important. When I was looking for a lab job, the advice for interviews was actually to avoid dressing up too much - but, it was still important to look put together. Other fields may require even less. Still, there's likely to be a certain number of times in anyone's life where it will be much to their advantage to dress appropriately. Sometimes, a tie can make a difference.
    We are talking about SCHOOL uniform here!

    Geezus Paralith can't you get out of the laboratory for just a minute?
    we're also talking about how the formality of a school uniform can influence you to dress more appropriately when you're an adult for situations like job interviews. Read the rest of the thread.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by Minxy
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    I never dress particularly smart.

    it hasn't held me back at all because i'm judged on my academic performance and achievements, and who i am as a person.

    wearing a tie doesnt make a damn slight bit of difference
    Depending on what field you're in, dressing up can be less important. When I was looking for a lab job, the advice for interviews was actually to avoid dressing up too much - but, it was still important to look put together. Other fields may require even less. Still, there's likely to be a certain number of times in anyone's life where it will be much to their advantage to dress appropriately. Sometimes, a tie can make a difference.
    We are talking about SCHOOL uniform here!

    Geezus Paralith can't you get out of the laboratory for just a minute?
    we're also talking about how the formality of a school uniform can influence you to dress more appropriately when you're an adult for situations like job interviews. Read the rest of the thread.
    Ok ok apologies

    You said lab job and i was overwhelmed with a vision of you in this shiny white lab coat holding a mouse up by it's tail.....

    I think it's vital to look the part. There's alot of competition for kids these days to get places in college and uni, jobs and their foot on the rung and even to be taken seriously.

    I hate this shabby chavvy baseball hoody look that some of them have. It just says 'i don't give a shit'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minxy
    You said lab job and i was overwhelmed with a vision of you in this shiny white lab coat holding a mouse up by it's tail.....
    Haha - exchange the lab coat for a space-suit like white coverall and a doctor's face mask, and you've got a fairly accurate vision of how I spend part of my work day. Research jobs in general are very casual - once you get them, of course.

    I think it's vital to look the part. There's alot of competition for kids these days to get places in college and uni, jobs and their foot on the rung and even to be taken seriously.
    I agree with you there - people often say, "People shouldn't judge me by the clothes I wear." In an ideal world, they probably wouldn't. But this isn't an ideal world, and looking the part can be one more point in your favor when you're competing with other talented individuals.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Haha - exchange the lab coat for a space-suit like white coverall and a doctor's face mask, and you've got a fairly accurate vision
    Bladdy hell! Now you are turning me on!

    Can you send me a photo?

    I will send you one back :-D
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    I’m all for school uniforms. I used to have to wear a nice St Trinians number myself. I think they’re a great leveller. Coming from a poorer, working class family and going to quite a middle class school, I used to dread the occasional days when we were allowed to wear our own clothes to school, as quite well defined hierarchies based on wealth would suddenly appear as well as a lot of sniggers and bitchy comments at those who weren’t fashionable enough.

    I don’t think that they have any lasting effects on conformity, as there were plenty of ways to rebel that didn’t revolve round clothes and the school seemed to produce its fair share of both conformists and rebels, besides, there were always subtle ways of tweaking the uniform to make it more of a personal statement, so creativity and self expression didn’t suffer either….as I recall, my rebelliousness was expressed through the medium of black socks

    I also don’t see that there’s a relation between school uniform and how people later dress for interview or work, there’s many more relevant factors involved in that. Every school in my home town insisted on an uniform, yet churned out a vast array of people with different personality traits and clothing preferences, and whereas I loved wearing a school uniform, I would now never consider working in a place with a strict dress code and have occasionally turned up at interview as the scruffbag that i am on a day to day basis...no link there then
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    I disagree, the chronological effects of wearing a school uniform will have effects when it comes to understanding how job interviews work. Appearences. If you look a sack of crap you ain't gettin' the job. I believe job interviews are a relevant look at what happens if school uniforms are not protocol in school years, there will be a drag on effect for when the child becomes older.
    I disagree. My grandparents say that I look like a sack of crap on weekdays, but I'm always the most well-dressed in art exhibition openings, in classical conserts and in other formal festive occasions. Because of my young age, I haven't yet been in a job interview (I got my job without the interview). But if I went to an interview, I would probably be well-dressed there, too.
    So, I don't see a connection between school uniforms and being well-dressed in the future.

    And I have never worn a school uniform.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elina
    So, I don't see a connection between school uniforms and being well-dressed in the future.
    I think there's a potential influence, but a not a necessary one.

    Do any of you who had to wear a school uniform greatly dislike dressing formally? Or have any other kinds of negative feelings about formal dress?
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    I wore a uniform all throughout grade school and high school, and while it was crappy at first, you get used to it and even start to enjoy it. It doesn't seem to have affected my attitude towards dressing up either, I'll throw on a shirt and tie whenever the desire strikes. Most people disagree with a uniform because it doesn't allow kids to express themselves, but thats sending a terrible message. Kids should be expressing themselves through what they do, not the clothes they wear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychonautical
    I wore a uniform all throughout grade school and high school, and while it was crappy at first, you get used to it and even start to enjoy it. It doesn't seem to have affected my attitude towards dressing up either, I'll throw on a shirt and tie whenever the desire strikes. Most people disagree with a uniform because it doesn't allow kids to express themselves, but thats sending a terrible message. Kids should be expressing themselves through what they do, not the clothes they wear.
    I hated it, God I was happy to throw it in the bin when I passed my GCSE's. It's much better at 6th form without that symbol of oppression. Freedom of will my foot
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  35. #34 school uniforms 
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by Elina
    So, I don't see a connection between school uniforms and being well-dressed in the future.
    I think there's a potential influence, but a not a necessary one.

    Do any of you who had to wear a school uniform greatly dislike dressing formally? Or have any other kinds of negative feelings about formal dress?
    I grew up in Italy, where kids have to wear a black/gray school uniform. As adults, Italians know how to dress, but I wouldn't say that this is due to having to wear a school uniform. In my humble opinion it is more a result of fashion being present everywhere and getting teached how to dress by your mother. There is also no empirical data existing on the correlation between school uniforms and awareness of personal style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by Elina
    So, I don't see a connection between school uniforms and being well-dressed in the future.
    I think there's a potential influence, but a not a necessary one.

    Do any of you who had to wear a school uniform greatly dislike dressing formally? Or have any other kinds of negative feelings about formal dress?
    Burn uniform!!! i hated uniform and now i hate wearing black trousers etc because its too formal and reminds me of uniform. Id even consider not applying for a job if it said "formal dress" requiered

    Uniform doesnt really stop bullying, poor kids were bullied anyway because their unoform had holes in it and was smelly. They would have been bullied whatever they were wearing. Im in 6th form now and dont have to wear uniform and its so much better, everyone looks so much nicer and doesnt look like they are wearing a potato sack (we had these square shaped unisex jumpers).

    im glad i didnt go to a school wear they told you what socks to wear. I know someone who went to a private school where they were told what kind of coat to wear!!!! coat shouldnt really be part of unoform!!!!

    and about belonging to a community... i dont feel any pride being part of my school, the less i am associated with it the better

    if i ever have kids (unlikely but if it ever happens) i wont send them to a uniform school, i not that mean...
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  37. #36  
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    Having been a secondary school teacher, I am in favour of uniforms. Many of the sensible reasons for having them have been suggested already, but I thought I would add a couple more.

    Discipline. Having to conform to a rule improves discipline. Something a person will need in later life, whether they are an accountant or a football player. Discipline is something that is sorely lacking in many of the kids I taught (London state schools). A point was made earlier about the influence of parents on a childs behaviour. I can say without hesitation that the difference between a 'good' pupil and a 'bad' pupil is how much they are supported and loved by their parents (be they blood or not). That's not to say you can't get a good kid from a bad family, but it is bloody rare. If a child has little support or motivation or discipline from home, then at least he can learn some at school.

    Distraction. The types of pupils I was teaching have serious attention deficits. That's not to say they are all diagnosed with the very fashionable ADHD, but they do have very short attention spans. Anything that can provide a distraction will. In this case their own clothes would and do. I know it sounds bit rediculous to say that bright colours and cool bling destract and excite pupils, but they do. A uniform just helps reduce the number of distractions.

    edit to add: Plus it gives them something relatively harmless to rebel against, which all teenagers need (read post above mine). Let them do their tie short, or where just acceptable shoes etc... let them feel like they are 'winning one' occasionally, even though they are actually conforming still. They are learning how to live happily/happier within a ruleset, something that will be useful later in life.
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  38. #37  
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    Japanese uniform with their suit and mini skit is my favorite. I envy them.
    Super Mega Death Christ Beta 2000!!!
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