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Thread: retaliation

  1. #1 retaliation 
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    why do we seek retaliation or revenge? i think it might be related to jealousy and competitiveness.

    when someone bests us, we must prove that we can best them too.
    thats the heart of all competition.
    so in response to someone killing our brother, we must show we are capable of killing their brother too.
    if we don't "win" this, we set ourselves up to be a victim. a second-rank citizen.
    jealousy is a definitive competitive trait.


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    I quest to be better than all simply so that I can help those in need and bring the evil who have skill to the light side. I have done a lot to rid myself of jealousy and stuff. But I am still competitivness. I'd say I retaliate by biding my time, watching them seeing their faults seeing and waiting to be better than them. I counter-attack and only retaliate in my own way to disarm any threat. I wouldn't compete with someone who does something wrong, I would only compete if a female was in audience or to take dominance in a situation that I could control more effiecinetly than another bloke. I don't see as to compete with women only to assert a dominace over them to protect and all that stuff, lets face it women can sometimes have their irrationality overwhelm them to simple and daily stupidity, but maybe thats just my evolutionary way of looking at it :?


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  4. #3  
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    thats what revenge is. a competition to see who can hurt who the most.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    thats what revenge is. a competition to see who can hurt who the most.
    I don't do revenge. I 'educate' them.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  6. #5 Re: retaliation 
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    why do we seek retaliation or revenge? i think it might be related to jealousy and competitiveness.

    when someone bests us, we must prove that we can best them too.
    thats the heart of all competition.
    so in response to someone killing our brother, we must show we are capable of killing their brother too.
    if we don't "win" this, we set ourselves up to be a victim. a second-rank citizen.
    jealousy is a definitive competitive trait.

    revenge is about many things:

    1. making them feel how you feel

    2. as a disincentive from them repeating their action against you

    3. To assert power and authority

    4. To attempt to alleviate ones own feelings of hurt/grief/anger/pain


    1.2 and 3 may be effective, 4 which is the most common reason for revenge is also the least effective. Revenge for removal of ones own pain is ineffective, as it just adds to ones own sense of hopelessness.

    Two wrongs don't make a right, don't bring back the dead, can't heal pain etc.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    i'm trying to dig as deep as our basic primitive instincts that we learn to ignore in day-to day life.
    our emotional 1s and 0s if you'd like.

    1. making them feel like you feel:

    this is about equality, but equality usually ends with competition about who gets the most. also, maintaining your equality, mostly serves to show you are able to compete.
    when my mother was little there was usually a lot of bickering over cutting ice cream exactly equal.
    if you accept that someone gets away with more than you got, its a trait of submission. and when you submit, it always give you a bad taste in the mouth, if only for a brief 2-3 seconds. most people learn to live with feeling bad for themselves for the greater good, and equality.

    2. as a disincentive from them repeating their action against you:

    this again, is about competitiveness, in the form of marking your emotional territory.

    3. To assert power and authority:

    yes, what its all about. the person at the top pole position shows power and authority, because he/she was the fastest around the track.

    4. To attempt to alleviate ones own feelings of hurt/grief/anger/pain:
    ...and why would you need to alleviate your feeling of hurt grief anger and pain? because it hurts? and why does it hurt? because we are genetically programmed to feel hurt when someone shows they are in control of our lives?
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Revenge is a punishment. It's ensuring that there is a negative consequence to a behavior you find to be unacceptable. Having the instinct of revenge helps (ultimately) to enforce social rules and morals, making it a generally adaptive response, especially when it comes to particularly "bad" behaviors like murder.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    i'm trying to dig as deep as our basic primitive instincts that we learn to ignore in day-to day life.
    our emotional 1s and 0s if you'd like.

    1. making them feel like you feel:

    this is about equality, but equality usually ends with competition about who gets the most. also, maintaining your equality, mostly serves to show you are able to compete.
    when my mother was little there was usually a lot of bickering over cutting ice cream exactly equal.
    if you accept that someone gets away with more than you got, its a trait of submission. and when you submit, it always give you a bad taste in the mouth, if only for a brief 2-3 seconds. most people learn to live with feeling bad for themselves for the greater good, and equality.

    2. as a disincentive from them repeating their action against you:

    this again, is about competitiveness, in the form of marking your emotional territory.

    3. To assert power and authority:

    yes, what its all about. the person at the top pole position shows power and authority, because he/she was the fastest around the track.

    4. To attempt to alleviate ones own feelings of hurt/grief/anger/pain:
    ...and why would you need to alleviate your feeling of hurt grief anger and pain? because it hurts? and why does it hurt? because we are genetically programmed to feel hurt when someone shows they are in control of our lives?
    I don't agree it is about competition, not remotely.

    Unless men and women are different.

    Sometimes things are just what they are.

    I know for fact my acts of 'revenge' have never been about competition.
    Most often it is a knee jerk reaction and if I have time to consider and reflect on that action I often refrain from doing it. Reason is that in 'time' all those immediate feelings of hurt,anger,grief go away.


    The two things are not related as inseperably as you imagine. It is also your own theory. I have not heard it supported anywhere else.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    well, its not really even a theory, more a thesis that i'll let go through some rough treatment.
    its difficult to prove, and easy to disprove.
    basically i base it on that we have a fundament of competition of who gets to breed the most, but over the years it seems to have evolved into mutual benefit where everyone wins.
    i try to contextualize our very basic sexual instincts into day-to-day life,
    and all our feelings, since i have another thesis that says we all basically grew out of our reproductive organs, all the other limbs are just there to ensure the survival and procreation of our reproductive organs.
    after all, the most important part of the most basic lifeforms, is the ability to duplicate, along with all other lifeforms.
    and we are in constant competition with all other lifeforms, but our superiority
    is so complete we really don't have to lift a finger anymore to win.
    and this leads to our unrestful state as humans, our questions about "is there really nothing else to life? what is the meaning of life?" etc.
    battling the elements, you'll forget about these questions.

    as for punishment, its an execution of authority, authority is to show that you are better than someone in some form or another, which is competition.

    i'm not saying anyone exected revenge because they wanted to compete.
    everyone probably mix the competitive spirit into more "complicated" feelings that are "difficult to explain"

    I know for fact my acts of 'revenge' have never been about competition.
    the reason for the knee-jerk reaction, is because your emotional territory was desecrated. you feel submissive when you don't want to feel submissive. so you want to compete to regain "equality".
    but because of your intellects superiority over instincts, you realize this victory is too small to really matter.
    was that a description of your feelings?

    i might be wrong in that there are 2 variables, superiority and submission.
    there might be 3, submission, equality, and superiority.
    but competition is always involved when you move between the 3.
    but when equality is broken, theres always one who is submissive and one who is superior. the submissive can compete to gain equality or superiority, or dismiss, because the gains are marginal.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Come on, people. This isn't rocket science. Would you ask why a bee has a sting? If you want to keep people from messing with you, you have to make them pay.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Come on, people. This isn't rocket science. Would you ask why a bee has a sting? If you want to keep people from messing with you, you have to make them pay.
    and why do people mess with you to begin with?
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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  13. #12  
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    To gain some form of authority I guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    To gain some form of authority I guess.
    now here's an interesting twist. why do the need to gain some form of authority?

    answer: because they feel inferior.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    To gain some form of authority I guess.
    now here's an interesting twist. why do the need to gain some form of authority?

    answer: because they feel inferior.
    Sounds reasonable. You feel weak, therefore you need to display power/authority. There's a saying that the more power you get, the more afraid you are to loose it.

    But it's not reasonable to assume only one cause. Authority is often needed. Sometimes we choose who to guide us, for example.
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  16. #15  
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    Perhaps I misunderstood. Did you mean that we choose authority because we feel inferior?
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Come on, people. This isn't rocket science. Would you ask why a bee has a sting? If you want to keep people from messing with you, you have to make them pay.
    and why do people mess with you to begin with?
    Well there could be any number of reasons. Life's a bitch. It happens.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    the reason for the knee-jerk reaction, is because your emotional territory was desecrated. you feel submissive when you don't want to feel submissive. so you want to compete to regain "equality".
    but because of your intellects superiority over instincts, you realize this victory is too small to really matter.
    was that a description of your feelings?
    Not remotely.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    the reason for the knee-jerk reaction, is because your emotional territory was desecrated. you feel submissive when you don't want to feel submissive. so you want to compete to regain "equality".
    but because of your intellects superiority over instincts, you realize this victory is too small to really matter.
    was that a description of your feelings?
    Not remotely.
    if thats so, you have a completely different idea about what a knee-jerk reaction is to what i have.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    the reason for the knee-jerk reaction, is because your emotional territory was desecrated. you feel submissive when you don't want to feel submissive. so you want to compete to regain "equality".
    but because of your intellects superiority over instincts, you realize this victory is too small to really matter.
    was that a description of your feelings?
    Not remotely.
    if thats so, you have a completely different idea about what a knee-jerk reaction is to what i have.
    I don't make the error of assuming all humans are identical in their reasonning, you apparantly do.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by dejawolf
    the reason for the knee-jerk reaction, is because your emotional territory was desecrated. you feel submissive when you don't want to feel submissive. so you want to compete to regain "equality".
    but because of your intellects superiority over instincts, you realize this victory is too small to really matter.
    was that a description of your feelings?
    Not remotely.
    if thats so, you have a completely different idea about what a knee-jerk reaction is to what i have.
    I don't make the error of assuming all humans are identical in their reasonning, you apparantly do.
    no, thats wrong.
    this has become an issue of communication, not reasoning.
    if you cannot describe your feelings in a way that i could understand, what is to blame? bad communication.
    i believe all creatures has a set of very basic instincts.
    most humans have abstracted those instincts away, to communicate on a higher level than the basic 1s and 0s of human thought.
    this gives rise to more complex ideas made simple, yet makes it difficult to understand the very basic connection of how the physical neurosignals
    manifest in the basic building blocks of human thought.
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
    A.C Doyle
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