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Thread: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over?

  1. #1 Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over? 
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    Im cautious about sensationalized media story's, but with immigrants getting priority housing and above average wage in benefits, while native British are working for minimum wage and cant get housed. Is our modern day climate of political correctness meaning us true British(and maybe true Americans) are getting screwed, by our own benevolence?


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  3. #2 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
    Forum Freshman Tony John C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    Im cautious about sensationalized media story's, but with immigrants getting priority housing and above average wage in benefits, while native British are working for minimum wage and cant get housed. Is our modern day climate of political correctness meaning us true British(and maybe true Americans) are getting screwed, by our own benevolence?
    Yes I do believe that racism is a problem and America and Britain are too something, maybe benevolence isn't the word. Would you agree there may be less than noble motives? Cheaper labor force to boost the lower class. When they are not citizens they can pay whatever they wish, I think. It would seem alot of hipocracy is involved as well. By having this affirmative action, it promotes more racism, and makes the blending more difficult. You often see resentment of immagrants. Its all like a big wheel, it just happens again and again. A solution seems to ellude us, or at least me. I would perhaps change the question to why are we doing what we are doing?


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    I've always had a little sympathy for illegal immigrants. They just want a better environment. And honestly I somewhat believe America actually needs them now days. America raises all their children to be computer programmers and PR guys, and with the stigma that living as a laborer is no sort of life the society has gone into a major need of laboring assistance. Also you can tell that the immigrants can really budget, something the rest of America really needs to learn.
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  5. #4 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    Im cautious about sensationalized media story's, but with immigrants getting priority housing and above average wage in benefits, while native British are working for minimum wage and cant get housed. Is our modern day climate of political correctness meaning us true British(and maybe true Americans) are getting screwed, by our own benevolence?
    I went on the benefit, once, 15 years ago, for three weeks. I find it hard to imagine that the pittance I received was close to minimum wage, let alone above average wage. Is there any way to check that these benefits actually do tot up to something above average wage in the UK?
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  6. #5 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrio
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    Im cautious about sensationalized media story's, but with immigrants getting priority housing and above average wage in benefits, while native British are working for minimum wage and cant get housed. Is our modern day climate of political correctness meaning us true British(and maybe true Americans) are getting screwed, by our own benevolence?
    I went on the benefit, once, 15 years ago, for three weeks. I find it hard to imagine that the pittance I received was close to minimum wage, let alone above average wage. Is there any way to check that these benefits actually do tot up to something above average wage in the UK?
    Thats a good point, I believe they are not merely getting jobseakers allowance but other benefits special case benifits. Also if they have a reasonably sized family and housing benefit, this could push their benefits above £30,000 a year.

    Please ignore this part though as I really don't know how I could confirm this.
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  7. #6 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    Is our modern day climate of political correctness meaning us true British(and maybe true Americans) are getting screwed, by our own benevolence?
    I'm not clear what you mean by true British. Could you elaborate?
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  8. #7 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
    Forum Ph.D. Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    Is our modern day climate of political correctness meaning us true British(and maybe true Americans) are getting screwed, by our own benevolence?
    I'm not clear what you mean by true British. Could you elaborate?
    He probably (hopefully) means native British, of British decent. For example, not an immigrant.

    As for the thread, it seems today that, oddly enough, the biggest racists are present in the very races denouncing racism.

    Who are the first to scream "racism" when there's a problem? Who are the first to shout "racism" in political and business endevours?

    When a black guy runs a red-light and slams into a car driven by a white person, and the black guy gets the ticket, who starts yelling "racial influence"?

    If a black guy picks a fight, and gets his arse kicked, is it treated as a normal fight? No. Ten seconds before the cops show up it's declared a hate crime...and by who?

    If I start a fight with a black guy because he's pissing me off, I'm doing it because I'm made at what he's doing. Not because he's black. That has nothing to do with it. But the moment I start the fight, it becomes a "hate crime," because he's black.

    Why would race even enter into it? And who is calling for society to notice that there was a racial difference between the two combatants?

    I'm not saying these situations are the defacto standard, but they are worth consideration.
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  9. #8 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    Is our modern day climate of political correctness meaning us true British(and maybe true Americans) are getting screwed, by our own benevolence?
    I'm not clear what you mean by true British. Could you elaborate?
    Thats a good question. I would say "yes, basically non-immigrant",but I'm sure you will argue that pretty much all Anglo-Saxon heredity is tainted with viking etc etc.
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  10. #9 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf

    As for the thread, it seems today that, oddly enough, the biggest racists are present in the very races denouncing racism.

    Who are the first to scream "racism" when there's a problem? Who are the first to shout "racism" in political and business endevours?

    When a black guy runs a red-light and slams into a car driven by a white person, and the black guy gets the ticket, who starts yelling "racial influence"?

    If a black guy picks a fight, and gets his arse kicked, is it treated as a normal fight? No. Ten seconds before the cops show up it's declared a hate crime...and by who?

    If I start a fight with a black guy because he's pissing me off, I'm doing it because I'm made at what he's doing. Not because he's black. That has nothing to do with it. But the moment I start the fight, it becomes a "hate crime," because he's black.

    Why would race even enter into it? And who is calling for society to notice that there was a racial difference between the two combatants?

    I'm not saying these situations are the defacto standard, but they are worth consideration.
    That is precisely my point Wolf. Thanks for that.
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  11. #10 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
    Forum Ph.D. Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    That is precisely my point Wolf. Thanks for that.
    You do of course realize that by creating this thread, you are a racist of the most extreme order and promote its epidemic state of destruction that is leading to the world's end, right?

    :P

    It seems in today's societies that there is no ground for any of this. Unless you completely and utterly blind yourself to the world, you must deal with race, and consequently racism. If you give in to the campaigns of "shame" you are a good citizen, but if you question it you are a racist.

    If I walk down the street and a black guy yells "hey whiteboy" it's not a case of racism until I yell back "yeah, blackboy?" No wrong was done in the eyes of the public when the black guy used racial slander because he was just five minutes ago picking cotten, in chains with his enslaved family, at the back of the field...
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  12. #11 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    That is precisely my point Wolf. Thanks for that.
    You do of course realize that by creating this thread, you are a racist of the most extreme order and promote its epidemic state of destruction that is leading to the world's end, right?

    .
    Yup the liberal bleeding hearts will call me the new Hitler im sure.

    Indeed if we are all the same, why do they get better treatment than us in our native country in some cases? Are we not then the discriminated against due to our race???
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  13. #12  
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    Despite not being a racist and trying my best to treat all people as people, with respect to their individual cultures and beliefs, I am still subjected to the moderation of society in accordance to the understanding that I AM a racist because I'm white.

    When I look for a job, despite working hard to better myself and get ahead in life, affirmative action has a chance of getting in the way of MY success. But why? Isn't affirmative action supposed to moderate/punish the racial discrimination?

    That's why such laws don't fundamentally work. You can't attack the whole of society for the dispositions of only some of its members.

    In a free society there exists many viewpoints and dispositions. The laws that govern that free society cannot be rigid in that they plaster the whole community. Sure, affirmative action probably does punish some of the racists giving jobs to whites over other races despite credentials, but it also states that I MUST hire someone based on their race, and not their credentials. That in itself is racism.

    If I start a company centered around something German...say, a German restaurant. I probably only want people who both understand German culture, language, foods, etc...So if two chefs come to me, I have to decide who I want to join my restaurant. The one chef is German, but a little inexperienced. The other chef is Italian, and is more experienced, but he has a heavy Italian accent and doesn't really understand German culture. So I hire the German instead.

    I probably wouldn't get too much flak from anyone about that decision, and people would say that the Italian chef was probably bonkers for applying to be a chef at a strictly German-styled restaurant. There might be a small argument over it, maybe even some resentment...but the arguments are likely to be over why I chose the less experienced chef, and not why I chose the German over the Italian.

    Now, in a slightly screwed version of affirmative action, someone would come along, read the statistics chart, and say "You don't have an Italian on your staff. Therefore we're fining you because you didn't hire an Italian."

    So now the German restaurant has an Italian chef. Yay!

    :?
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    Indeed swap the Italian for a black guy and you will be labeled a racist for your decision, guaranteed!


    I'm no racist, by definition, but I will not fear idiots labeling me. I WILL MOCK anyones weird ignorances. And protest when anyone is fucking me over.
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  15. #14 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    Thats a good question. I would say "yes, basically non-immigrant",but I'm sure you will argue that pretty much all Anglo-Saxon heredity is tainted with viking etc etc.
    Excuse me, but you ****ing anglo-saxons are the immigrants. I am truly British. (Well half British, the other half are tainted with anglo-saxon on a Huegenot base.) This is a bastard nation and has been for millenia.
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  16. #15 Re: Has racism claims turned into an excuse to screw us over 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    Thats a good question. I would say "yes, basically non-immigrant",but I'm sure you will argue that pretty much all Anglo-Saxon heredity is tainted with viking etc etc.
    Excuse me, but you ****ing anglo-saxons are the immigrants. I am truly British. (Well half British, the other half are tainted with anglo-saxon on a Huegenot base.) This is a bastard nation and has been for millenia.
    What ever!

    My lineage goes back atleast a 1000 years. My name is a true british pluralized Christian name that goes back to medieval times. Im British! Ock aye! see you jimmy.... Donald wheres your trooooses blarr blarr blarr
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  17. #16  
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    If you two are gonna get that fine grained, then you've both shot yerselves in the foot on the issue because according to those lines, there's no nations that have any native citizens.

    Where do you draw the line?

    If a guy born and raised in Brittan from generations isn't British, then that puts him in the same pot as the folks from Spain and Turkey who just wandered in last year. I doubt that's what this is about.
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    Think the author, was interested in the Traditions and cultures which grow with any society. England, UK, The British Empire history goes back to about 1000AD, advancing with two major Empires for that period. Throwing out the Roman Church about 1500 and close ties to many nearby nations during the entire period. Good, bad or indifferent that culture was instrumental in bringing a form of civilization to many parts of the world.

    Not aware of any specific problem in England, in the US it goes to the sense of being politically correct. Even here it dwindles down to a few individuals in various fringe elements of society. A few gays/lesbians, atheist, anarchist, or individuals with a view can now bring their viewpoint to the front of the line through our legal and media process. We do have a bit of a problem understanding our *Illegal Immigration* problem, but for the most part our people go on day to day, going about their affairs making the Country a great place to live.

    Wolf; In a genetic profile of all races in all areas of the world, there was no single race, with out other race influence. Guess Ophie can call our world, well what he/she wants, but factually as a species we all pretty well mixed. We do however have cultural and traditional ideas. These are real differences as are languages or religions, which any person not of that, should make an earnest attempt to conform somewhat, if wishing to live and participate in that society. 99% have in the US have, since our founding....
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  19. #18  
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    If you don't think immigration is a problem, you should try living in immigration highway - south east England. I really do mean "try".
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  20. #19  
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    Hmmm... I think all of you (except Jackson) are incredibly stubborn. I understand what point you are all trying to prove, but if you were all as open minded as you intend, then you would simply let it slide...

    In the end, what matters of history? Sure it has its importance, and of course it IS a part of who we are, but who are you to judge people of who they WERE? Especially before they were born. In the end, this pointless discussion seems to be over land.

    All fights in the past have been mainly over land and power, and so what is the point?
    I think all you steaky-beaks should stop reading pointless signatures.

    Save the world instead.
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  21. #20  
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    It does matter, it always has mattered and always will matter, we (people, mainly men) can't let it slide, it's built into human nature to show a certain amount of resentment toward foreigners moving into a country. It doesn't have anything to do with race, when the Irish were moving over to modern day Britain in the 18th and 19th century they were subjected to what we would call racism, violent racism, if a bunch of white middle class English men and women moved up into a village in Scotland they would hear 'English bastards' being mentioned as they walked down the street. It happens all over the world and has nothing to do with race.

    Theres nothing wrong with immigration, would anybody here living in a white english speaking country have a problem with someone emigrating into their country from another white english speaking country ?

    It does matter IMO, with the numbers of people moving from one particular country into another. Not to single out a particular group of people, but the numbers of south Asians moving into Britain over the last 30/40 years has been extremely high. That doesn't mean i won't been supporting Amir Khan during his next fight, but having so many people moving from one culture to a completely different one is going to cause problems as has already happened in places such as France recently.

    If things take a turn for the worst in any country, immigrants are the first people who get the blame, which is unfair to them. It is also unfair to expect a host country to change their ways to accommodate any immigrants, and stupidity from the home country for letting it happen. Country's have every right to dictate how many people move into their own country without being accused of racism, and besides, how many people here have ever been asked if they agree with the idea of multiculturalism ?
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  22. #21  
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    Im cautious about sensationalized media story's, but with immigrants getting priority housing and above average wage in benefits, while native British are working for minimum wage and cant get housed. Is our modern day climate of political correctness meaning us true British(and maybe true Americans) are getting screwed, by our own benevolence?
    As immigrant myself I can say this about that: Without immigration, especially, but not just from south Asia, the engineering and construction industry in the USA would be in terrible straits. I am not having direct information about other areas of business but I think many hospitals and medical practices would collapse without immigrant workers. These are highly paid jobs, not minimum wages, and very few of these professionals that America creams off from other countries ever end up on the dole.

    This is market economics, not benevolence or political correctness. Everyone is benefitting and no one gets screwed, except perhaps Bangladesh and India, which educate, then export their best brains.

    (Perhaps you are actually referring to illegal immigrants, as opposed to legal ones, but you didn’t make this clear.)
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunbury
    Im cautious about sensationalized media story's, but with immigrants getting priority housing and above average wage in benefits, while native British are working for minimum wage and cant get housed. Is our modern day climate of political correctness meaning us true British(and maybe true Americans) are getting screwed, by our own benevolence?
    As immigrant myself I can say this about that: Without immigration, especially, but not just from south Asia, the engineering and construction industry in the USA would be in terrible straits. I am not having direct information about other areas of business but I think many hospitals and medical practices would collapse without immigrant workers. These are highly paid jobs, not minimum wages, and very few of these professionals that America creams off from other countries ever end up on the dole.

    This is market economics, not benevolence or political correctness. Everyone is benefitting and no one gets screwed, except perhaps Bangladesh and India, which educate, then export their best brains.

    (Perhaps you are actually referring to illegal immigrants, as opposed to legal ones, but you didn’t make this clear.)
    No I am not, Im referring to legals more than illegals in fact, for they are the ones claiming the benefits and swiping housing.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunbury

    This is market economics, not benevolence or political correctness. Everyone is benefitting and no one gets screwed, except perhaps Bangladesh and India, which educate, then export their best brains.

    (Perhaps you are actually referring to illegal immigrants, as opposed to legal ones, but you didn’t make this clear.)
    No I am not, Im referring to legals more than illegals in fact, for they are the ones claiming the benefits(dole) and swiping housing.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf
    If you two are gonna get that fine grained, then you've both shot yerselves in the foot on the issue because according to those lines, there's no nations that have any native citizens.
    Wolf, I think I may have had my tongue so firmly in my cheek that the irony was lost on most (or all).
    I found Ghost of Maxwell's remarks inherently racist, bigoted and ignorant. Clearly that is an opinion, but it is one I hold quite firmly. I attempted to ridicule his remarks with the post on my 'mixed ancestry' and condemmnation of the Anglo-Saxon invaders. Looks like it didn't work. :?
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunbury

    This is market economics, not benevolence or political correctness. Everyone is benefitting and no one gets screwed, except perhaps Bangladesh and India, which educate, then export their best brains.

    (Perhaps you are actually referring to illegal immigrants, as opposed to legal ones, but you didn’t make this clear.)
    No I am not, Im referring to legals more than illegals in fact, for they are the ones claiming the benefits(dole) and swiping housing.
    Well... the BNP's found another member then. Gawd save England when this sort of thinking takes over. Perhaps you'd like to do an Enoch "Rivers of blood" speech?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrio
    Well... the BNP's found another member then. Gawd save England when this sort of thinking takes over. Perhaps you'd like to do an Enoch "Rivers of blood" speech?
    The problem is that GoM is right and the statistics back that up (UK link). Of course nobody with a brain larger than a grape (BNP members) would like to see immigration stopped altogether, i myself am an naturalised immigrant into the UK, and the economic benefits of immigration all over the world is well known, but it shouldn't be a free-for-all. Allowing too many immigrants to enter a country over a short period of time causes social tension and provides groups such as the BNP with ammunition to raise their popularity. It is no coincidence that extreme right wing groups such as the BNP are increasing their numbers of supporters all over Europe. And people who label anyone who even rises the issue of immigration in a negative way as a racist or BNP member will be as much to blame in the end as the racist themselves.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    If you don't think immigration is a problem, you should try living in immigration highway - south east England. I really do mean "try".
    Not to be rude, but I don't have to go there to know what it's like (although I have for a short time).

    Every nation in the bleeding world has people trying to get into the US. I don't care about that. My own ancestors came in through Ellis Island. I just want those coming to the US to use the fking door!


    We have this wonderful system in place to bring people into the country who want to be here, to process them and at the same time protect those citizens who are already here from potential dangers. Unfortunately, our own dang politicians enjoy bypassing this system left and right, so we might as well be wide open.

    But I digress. That is just the one side of the issue here. There's the whole other side that involves the actual citizens of the US who use their ethnicity to gain an advantage over others. Sometimes it's warranted. Other times it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Wolf, I think I may have had my tongue so firmly in my cheek that the irony was lost on most (or all).
    I found Ghost of Maxwell's remarks inherently racist, bigoted and ignorant. Clearly that is an opinion, but it is one I hold quite firmly. I attempted to ridicule his remarks with the post on my 'mixed ancestry' and condemmnation of the Anglo-Saxon invaders. Looks like it didn't work. :?
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell View Post
    Im cautious about sensationalized media story's, but with immigrants getting priority housing and above average wage in benefits, while native British are working for minimum wage and cant get housed. Is our modern day climate of political correctness meaning us true British(and maybe true Americans) are getting screwed, by our own benevolence?
    Funny thing, racism- historically Irish in American North had it worse than blacks well after Confederate Rebellion, up until early 20th century. Fleeing Jim Crow, lynchings, and similar atrocities in South came hordes of poorly educated, thoroughly rural blacks with poor work ethic as consequence of sharecropping system causing much hard feeling all around. Irish had reputation as lazy and stupid, not helped by proximity to ethanol containing beverages.

    Racism is ALWAYS in the interest of socioeconomic elites which pit various groups against each other in order to divide and conquer, splendidly illustrated in film "Matewan", worth a look. Poor Americans blame illegal immigrants for depressing wage scale, but this is true for legal immigrants too, e.g. Filipina nurses sending home remittances earned in USA in NON UNION hospitals mostly. Some countries have great dependence on such remittances, many in IberoAmerica.

    Matewan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Also some film about skinheads and "fucking Paki bastards", cannot recall title. Can some kind of Englishman help out, please?
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Despite not being a racist and trying my best to treat all people as people, with respect to their individual cultures and beliefs, I am still subjected to the moderation of society in accordance to the understanding that I AM a racist because I'm white.

    When I look for a job, despite working hard to better myself and get ahead in life, affirmative action has a chance of getting in the way of MY success. But why? Isn't affirmative action supposed to moderate/punish the racial discrimination?

    That's why such laws don't fundamentally work. You can't attack the whole of society for the dispositions of only some of its members.

    In a free society there exists many viewpoints and dispositions. The laws that govern that free society cannot be rigid in that they plaster the whole community. Sure, affirmative action probably does punish some of the racists giving jobs to whites over other races despite credentials, but it also states that I MUST hire someone based on their race, and not their credentials. That in itself is racism.

    If I start a company centered around something German...say, a German restaurant. I probably only want people who both understand German culture, language, foods, etc...So if two chefs come to me, I have to decide who I want to join my restaurant. The one chef is German, but a little inexperienced. The other chef is Italian, and is more experienced, but he has a heavy Italian accent and doesn't really understand German culture. So I hire the German instead.

    I probably wouldn't get too much flak from anyone about that decision, and people would say that the Italian chef was probably bonkers for applying to be a chef at a strictly German-styled restaurant. There might be a small argument over it, maybe even some resentment...but the arguments are likely to be over why I chose the less experienced chef, and not why I chose the German over the Italian.

    Now, in a slightly screwed version of affirmative action, someone would come along, read the statistics chart, and say "You don't have an Italian on your staff. Therefore we're fining you because you didn't hire an Italian."

    So now the German restaurant has an Italian chef. Yay!

    :?
    Is it racist to suggest that British food is an abomination? Honestly, no wonder the sun never set on Empire, so many were looking for decent take-away!

    Not that eating at Chez Prince is any treat, rest assured- crap, the smoke detector! This ALWAYS happens with the meat loaf!!!
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
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  31. #30  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
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    more thread necroing i see. o.O
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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