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Thread: Home Schooling; Your Brat or Ours?

  1. #1 Home Schooling; Your Brat or Ours? 
    Forum Freshman arditezza's Avatar
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    Home Schooling; Your Brat or Ours?

    So I read on cnn.com a story about a girl who loves soccer, but doesn't want to go to the high school that has the program. She's a home-schooler, the latest trend sure to bring the downfall of a normal society.

    See this link

    Now I don't know why parents seem to feel that they know how to teach their children better than our school system. Or why they feel that depriving these kids of much needed social development and extra-curricular activities is a good idea, but they do. It started out as a way to teach a child that was a problem and unfit for school to still finish high school, but it's turned into a national phenomena that is depriving children of much needed opportunities. I don't care if these parents have a G.E.D. or a PhD, they still can't teach them the coping mechanisms needed to exist in our society. They cannot give them all the opportunities, and all the culture and tolerance our school systems do. They can try, in all their willful self-righteousness, but they fail.

    There are two home schooled boys in our Boy Scout troop. Both of them are elitist, snobby little brats who insult others, do not know how to interact with others their age and have been forced to grow up and not be a child. They are disruptive, and demeaning. Their mother is a brute of a woman who barely got her high school diploma before getting knocked up at 18. But somehow, she feels that she can teach her children better than people trained to do so. They are also racist, culturally bereft and intolerant of others. The father is the same way, and I've heard other parents refuse to go on outings and trips where this family is involved.

    There are good home schooling stories, but they are a lot more rare than they should be. Home schooling indoctrinates children into the learning and belief system of the parent, and not a socially conscious learning system that a private or public school can offer. There is approved, but not enforced curriculum. Other children avoid home schooled kids because of their awkwardness. Regular school is more than just learning academics... it's culture, it's fraternity, it's social opportunity, it's creative and sometimes athletic. So many things that most home schooled children miss, just because their parents feel that they are smarter than the system.

    Then we have to deal with these socially inadequate children as they interact with our children at the park, at the movies, and at outdoor events. We have to listen to the parents beam about how great their children are, as they are putting down our children because they don't get such great grades. Part of life is competition and cooperation, none of which you get in the home. So when these kids go to college, they often struggle to fit in. They either become lonely because of not being able to interact and their own elitist behavior, or they go off the deep-end with their new-found freedom and do drugs, sex and anything else to escape reality.

    If public school was nothing more than an exercise in social learning and behavior, I would still send my children to get that benefit. When people excise themselves from society, they become anti-social and we begin to break down. We become a nation of individuals who can't and don't get along, can't and don't communicate, and have nothing cohesive that binds us together in the human condition.

    Mod Edit: I made your link shorter to fix the page size issue (IS)


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  3. #2  
    Forum Sophomore spidergoat's Avatar
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    Public schools these days are almost worthless, I support home schooling. Your problems with it are simply not representative of the reality. I remember public school, and to say that they taught me "culture", "tolerance", or gave me opportunities is a fucking joke. They teach kids that Columbus discovered America, they make you sing patriotic songs, and participate in pep rallies, which are nothing less than some kind of nazi youth exercise. Public schools teach nothing socially except to bend over to authority and be good little consumers, and they encourage the worst kind of "Lord of the Flies" primate politics with cliques and bullies. Many homeschoolers take a class at public school here and there to make up for what a parent can't teach, or doesn't have the facilities for, like chemistry or sports. Homeschoolers often meet with each other for classes and fieldtrips, they are more used to dealing with society than public school kids, who are trapped in an industrial building almost all day in an artificial environment that fills them with such discontent that they go on suicidal shooting sprees. Then there's the lack of sleep they get, but that teaches them to suffer under corporate sharecropping, doesn't it?


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  4. #3  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
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    My daughter only goes to charter schools, we have been extremely impressed with the results. From a test score perspective she attended junior high in a school that had the best test scores in the state.

    Public schools do kind of suck, that much is true.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman arditezza's Avatar
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    Some public schools do suck, but some of them are as good if not better than some of the private schools in the country. I think that your experience spidergoat has also biased you against open schooling. None of the home schooled children that live in our neighbourhood or attend the social events my children do are taking classes at a regular school, attending field trips or going to social events with their peers. I agree that it's possible that some do, it's just not the norm. There is no requirement for them to do so, so many parents skip that part.

    I think that your examples are the exception to the rule and not the norm. You don't see the majority of kids that are home schooled until you have children that age that attempt to interact with them. They grow up not having to fight for their parents attention and they expect the same out of all their relationships both business and personal. They have no idea how to cope with denial and rejection because they never had to. There are good and bad examples... just like there is with public school. Private school is the best option if you can afford it.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
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    Private school is the best option if you can afford it.
    Or well researched charter schools. Still free, the only exception being they may look for more donations and often don't provide transport. In the end we have had a very positive experience with charter schools. I guess like anything else your mileage may vary.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Sophomore vslayer's Avatar
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    the only homeschoolers i know are complete idoits, there parents kept them at home so as to prevent them learning about sacriligious ideas like evolution. they are in the belief that all human inventions were created by god.

    part of grownig up is forming your own beliefs by seeing what besiefs are out there, but when the onyl people you come into cantact with everyday are your parents, then you accept their views as your own.
    this can cause many homeschooled children to have mental prablems later in life when they just arent sure who they are and why the things which their parents taught them to do will drive people away
    and so the balance of power shifts...
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  8. #7  
    Forum Sophomore spidergoat's Avatar
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    There is a large fraction of homeschoolers who's motivations are religious, but that's the freedom we have in the US. These kids would probably suffer under a forced conformity system like the public schools. I value that diversity.

    They grow up not having to fight for their parents attention and they expect the same out of all their relationships both business and personal.
    Why should anyone have to fight for anyone's attention, that's dumb and immature in the world at large. Public school is a weird artificial environment, not representative of the world they will find themselves in after graduation.

    They have no idea how to cope with denial and rejection because they never had to.
    So the public schools function is to provide growing minds with denial and rejection, so they can get used to it in later life? What kind of screwed up values are those?

    The downfall of society is the underfunding of public schools that are so bad, they are forcing responsible parents that want their children to have a quality education to either do it themselves, or send them to private schools.
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  9. #8  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    I believe that home based computer education for students from the middle schools up that maintain a B average or above should be allowed. That would free up space needed for those other students that would need help in their learning and understanding better. With fewer students in the classroom there would be more time to spend on problems individually also. That way those with a less than B average would try harder to get to the home schooling to avoid the problems they encounter at school.
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  10. #9 Re: Home Schooling; Your Brat or Ours? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by arditezza
    So I read on cnn.com a story about a girl who loves soccer, but doesn't want to go to the high school that has the program.
    Notice the doesn't want to part. If she doesn't want to, she shouldn't have to. I'm wondering here if you think someone should be telling her "You love soccer, so you have to do something you don't want to do because it involves soccer. Fun will now commence!" Does that sum it up pretty well?

    She's a home-schooler, the latest trend sure to bring the downfall of a normal society.
    Ah, normal society. That's right, I forgot. Everyone should be exactly alike, society should never change, and they are very different from us. Normal society mustn't include diversity! Get a grip...

    Now I don't know why parents seem to feel that they know how to teach their children better than our school system.
    Better? Maybe not. But differently. They can give their children a chance to learn the stuff that interests them rather than the stuff that someone who doesn't even know them decided they needed to learn.

    Or why they feel that depriving these kids of much needed social development and extra-curricular activities is a good idea, but they do.
    They are generally not depriving their kids of anything except forced learning (which hardly counts as learning at all.) Therefore, they don't think it's a good idea. They're just trying not to deprive their kids of freedom.

    I don't care if these parents have a G.E.D. or a PhD, they still can't teach them the coping mechanisms needed to exist in our society.
    Children learn how to cope with society by being a part of it. School has nothing to do with that.

    They cannot give them all the opportunities, and all the culture and tolerance our school systems do.
    Public school doesn't teach tolerance. It teaches kids how to notice the slightest differences and use it to tease someone. Children learn how to be tolerant mostly from people who set good examples... which is kind of what the parents are going for by not exposing them to the public school atmosphere.

    There are two home schooled boys in our Boy Scout troop. Both of them are elitist, snobby little brats who insult others, do not know how to interact with others their age and have been forced to grow up and not be a child. They are disruptive, and demeaning.
    Okay, so there's some annoying kids. That happens, you know. I know a lot of public schoolers that way. For instance, I'm guessing that you went to public school. So far you've insulted a whole group of people on the assumption that they're all identical and asserted that you're vastly superior than us... which sounds pretty insulting, snobby, and demeaning to me.

    Their mother is a brute of a woman who barely got her high school diploma before getting knocked up at 18. But somehow, she feels that she can teach her children better than people trained to do so.
    But therein lies the problem. Public schools teachers were not trained to teach her children. They were trained to teach any number of faceless children roughly the age of hers. And the chances of finding any two children with the same learning requirements is very slim.

    They are also racist, culturally bereft and intolerant of others. The father is the same way, and I've heard other parents refuse to go on outings and trips where this family is involved.
    I've met plenty of racist and intolerant (are there any tolerant racists, by the way?) people who went to public school. The majority of them are opposed to homeschooling, so it's not as if the two go hand in hand. And if the father is that way then the children would probably end up that way no matter what schooling they did. You learn stuff like that young.

    There are good home schooling stories, but they are a lot more rare than they should be.
    Yes... ideally, every child should have a successful education and grow up to be a vital member of society. But sometimes it doesn't work out. There's a lot fewer good public schooling stories than there should be, too. In fact I think the best public school stories are those of the people who realize how stupid it is.

    Home schooling indoctrinates children into the learning and belief system of the parent, and not a socially conscious learning system that a private or public school can offer.
    Not a learning system that is just about identical for every other public schooled kid in the country, you mean.

    Other children avoid home schooled kids because of their awkwardness.
    I've never been avoided, and neither have any of my homeschooled friends. I don't end up with a lot of friends, but that's my doing at least as much as theirs... I like to have either really close friendships or no friendships at all. None of that semi-backstabbing jealousy-ridden shallow stuff.

    Regular school is more than just learning academics... it's culture, it's fraternity, it's social opportunity, it's creative and sometimes athletic.
    So is homeschooling. We don't just sit around in barren rooms all the time, you know.

    Then we have to deal with these socially inadequate children as they interact with our children at the park, at the movies, and at outdoor events.
    If they're so socially inadequate, why are your children interacting with them?

    We have to listen to the parents beam about how great their children are, as they are putting down our children because they don't get such great grades.
    News flash: parents are generally proud of their children. It happens. Just grin and bear it.

    Part of life is competition and cooperation, none of which you get in the home.
    What kind of home do you live in? My childhood was a pretty perfect mix of cooperation and competition. And if you can't get it in the home... no siblings, maybe... then you can get involved with sports or something else like that.

    So when these kids go to college, they often struggle to fit in.
    Actually, homeschoolers generally do better in college, socially as well as academically. They're generally there because they really want to be rather than because it's what they're just expected to do, and they appreciate the experience more.

    They either become lonely because of not being able to interact and their own elitist behavior, or they go off the deep-end with their new-found freedom and do drugs, sex and anything else to escape reality.
    New-found freedom? Homeschooling is generally freedom all along. More so than public school, anyhow. And as for the loneliness... if someone can't handle being a loner they would have stopped long before college. I myself don't like a lot of company, but that's a choice and doesn't affect me negatively.

    If public school was nothing more than an exercise in social learning and behavior, I would still send my children to get that benefit.
    Okay, so do. It's your choice, although I would hope that you'd let your children have some part in the decision at least once they get to be twelve or so. As for me, public school would have to become vastly different before I would even consider sending a child of mine there (not that I have any seeing as how I'm only sixteen... I'm speaking theoretically here.)

    When people excise themselves from society, they become anti-social and we begin to break down. We become a nation of individuals who can't and don't get along, can't and don't communicate, and have nothing cohesive that binds us together in the human condition.
    Poetic way to end it, but not overly relevant. Society is more than just school.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by vslayer
    the only homeschoolers i know are complete idoits, there parents kept them at home so as to prevent them learning about sacriligious ideas like evolution. they are in the belief that all human inventions were created by god.
    You do realize evolution isn't a human invention, right?

    I'm just kidding, I know that's not what you meant. But really, there are kids who go to public or private school who are also creationists... if their religion tells them that they're bound to continue believing it. I think they're wrong, but I think they have the right to be wrong.

    part of grownig up is forming your own beliefs by seeing what besiefs are out there, but when the onyl people you come into cantact with everyday are your parents, then you accept their views as your own.
    And when the only people you see every day are a bunch of teachers who are teaching what the government tells them to teach and a bunch of kids who are terrified of not fitting in, then you accept their views as your own. There's no way to avoid it... young children accept other views as their own, and then most of us tweak it as we get older.

    this can cause many homeschooled children to have mental prablems later in life when they just arent sure who they are and why the things which their parents taught them to do will drive people away
    ... on the other hand, they generally have pretty good spelling and grammar.

    None of the homeschooled kids I know have any mental problems, and I know a heck of a lot of homeschooled kids. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's certainly not more likely than it is with public schooled kids.
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  12. #11  
    Forum Freshman ericwernli's Avatar
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    First of all private schools are usually only good if they are very expensive. Most are not and the national average for tuition is about 9 grand. If you do the math, there just aint enough to go around. Most private school teachers get payed a little over half of a public school's teacher's salary. What you end up with is the private schools being taught by uncertified teachers who usually have no clue what they are teaching. Most don't have very strong curriculums that are vertically aligned to go from 1st to 12 grades in an appropriate manner.

    Home schooling at least has the state to help guide what they need to know according to what the state deems necessary. As a teacher I would have to say its 50/50 on those who end up in the public school a clue as to whats going on in the world. Some are so far behing its pathetic. I will say that I have had some who were top notch. I think those students would be just as well off if they went to the public school to start with.

    By the way, learning about all those horrible things the other posters talked about like the Nazi pep ralleys, its your introduction to the real world!
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  13. #12 Re: Home Schooling; Your Brat or Ours? 
    Forum Freshman KazaKhan™®©'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arditezza
    Now I don't know why parents seem to feel that they know how to teach their children better than our school system. Or why they feel that depriving these kids of much needed social development and extra-curricular activities is a good idea, but they do.
    So in your opinion the school system has no faults and is therefore perfect? If it's not perfect than there are legitimate reasons for home-schooling.
    Quote Originally Posted by arditezza
    It started out as a way to teach a child that was a problem...
    It started out for various reasons. Home-schooling at one point was the only option for a lot of people.
    Quote Originally Posted by arditezza
    There are good home schooling stories, but they are a lot more rare than they should be. Home schooling indoctrinates children into the learning and belief system of the parent, and not a socially conscious learning system that a private or public school can offer.
    Statistics? Would you be implying that children attending regular school do not get indoctrinated by their parents belief system? And are you also saying that home-schooled children are incapable of being socially conscious?
    Quote Originally Posted by arditezza
    Part of life is competition and cooperation, none of which you get in the home. So when these kids go to college, they often struggle to fit in.
    Do you have any siblings? I have two sisters and a brother and we both competed and cooperated, we also competed/cooperated with the other kids living in our street.
    Quote Originally Posted by arditezza
    We become a nation of individuals who can't and don't get along, can't and don't communicate, and have nothing cohesive that binds us together in the human condition.
    I agree but I dont believe home-schooling is a major problem. I'm neither for home-schooling or against it.
    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat
    Public schools teach nothing socially except to bend over to authority and be good little consumers, and they encourage the worst kind of "Lord of the Flies" primate politics with cliques and bullies.
    Indeed and it also occurs in private schools.
    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat
    The downfall of society is the underfunding of public schools that are so bad, they are forcing responsible parents that want their children to have a quality education to either do it themselves, or send them to private schools.
    I agree, here in Australia I think a major problem is that "private" schools actually recieve more government funding then public schools. Private schools should not be funded in any way by the government.
    That's a good idea cosmic and in general I think the school system should be more flexible. As it stands school is really to teach conformity, it should be about education and creativity.
    I started with nothing and I still have most of it left...
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  14. #13 Re: Home Schooling; Your Brat or Ours? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by arditezza
    Now I don't know why parents seem to feel that they know how to teach their children better than our school system.
    Umm…because our school system sucks, perhaps? You apparently were lucky enough live somewhere with a very nice public school system, but many people aren’t so fortunate. I don’t have any kids, but I would much rather have my (hypothetical) child be under-socialized than be unable to read, write, or do basic math. You can learn inter-personal skills at any age, but if you’re 18 and can’t read and write you’re pretty much screwed for life.
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  15. #14  
    Forum Sophomore spidergoat's Avatar
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    Some thoughts from James Howard Kunstler:

    School, is another major system facing drastic reorganization. The failure of schooling in America is already manifest. Our inner-city schools are in nearly complete state of entropy due to the effects of our overall disinvestment in cities - the school buildings themselves are crumbling while books and supplies are beyond the point of critical shortage - and to an array of social conditions ranging from the disintegration of families to the absence of standards of normative behavior. Whether these might all be lumped together as the consequences of poverty is debatable, in my opinion, but the effects are not debatable. These schools are not producing literate citizens with adequate social skills.
    Gigantic alienating schools are producing so much anxiety and depression that multiple slayings have occurred at regular intervals in recent years.
    Our schools are too big. The centralized suburban schools with their fleets of buses will become rapidly obsolete when the first oil market disruptions occur. The inner city schools will be too broken to fix. The suburban schools will be too large to heat economically (especially since the overwhelming majority of them all over the nation, regardless of climate, are sprawling one-story modernist boxes). School will have to be reorganized on a local basis, at a much smaller scale, in smaller buildings that do not look like medium security prisons. School will be required for fewer years, and with more deliberate sorting of children into academic and vocational tracks. Children will have to live closer to the schools they attend - the yellow bus fleets will be history. Children and teachers will benefit from being in physically smaller institutions where all will at least have the chance to know one another. In a post-cheap-oil world, teens might be needed to work part of the day or part of the year.
    ---------------
    Suburbia sends out a message of overwhelming hopelessness: “no future here.” Teenagers, who are struggling to develop a meaningful view of life, are especially susceptible to this grim message and are apt to personalize it. If my surroundings have no future, than there is no place for me and I have no future. It is inevitable that such conditions would provoke tremendous anxiety and depression. Add to this the fact that teenagers are just discovering their adult power to act decisively and you have a recipe for the carrying out of tragic deeds.
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