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Thread: We see in 2 dimensions?

  1. #1 We see in 2 dimensions? 
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    Do we see in 2-dimensions or 3-dimensions? Light bounces off objects in our environment and hits the back wall of our eyes, which is a curved 2-dimentional surface. This information is then passed through thalamus which then gets pushed out to different parts of the brain where the information will be then used and/or stored. The 3rd dimension may be an illusion. Like when we see a painting of a nice landscape. The painting is flat surface and by definition a 2-dimensional image but we can see it in 3-dimensions. There is no depth in the painting as it is completely flat but we can see an illusion of 3-dimensions.

    Does this make sense? It seems like gabble a bit but it's hard to explain through typing.


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    Forum Freshman pzkpfw's Avatar
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    Yes, our retinas essentially receive 2D information, but that light is coming from a 3D world and we get several clues that our brains process.

    First - we have two eyes, so each gets a slightly different view of the scene. Our brain can use that (along with "pointing" the eyes at a specific object to focus on) to determine what's closer and what's further.

    We can also see overlaps in objects, clearly what isn't overlapped is generally closer (I only write "generally" to avoid nit-pick about complex shapes).

    We also have experience of the size of things. https://www.google.co.nz/#q=youtube+...ed+perspective


    Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception


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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    If you look at a tree you'll see its height, width and depth so we see in 3D.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzkpfw View Post
    Yes, our retinas essentially receive 2D information, but that light is coming from a 3D world and we get several clues that our brains process.

    First - we have two eyes, so each gets a slightly different view of the scene. Our brain can use that (along with "pointing" the eyes at a specific object to focus on) to determine what's closer and what's further.

    We can also see overlaps in objects, clearly what isn't overlapped is generally closer (I only write "generally" to avoid nit-pick about complex shapes).

    We also have experience of the size of things. https://www.google.co.nz/#q=youtube+...ed+perspective


    Edit: Depth perception - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Stereoscopic vision isn't the same as 3d vision. As a soldier who went to combat in Afghanistan, you wear monocular-style night vision. Yet, you see "3-d" as you get used to it over time. So, stereoscopic vision isn't necessarily what causes depth perception.

    Here is a paper that goes over this exact process: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...73612305,d.cGE
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    If you look at a tree you'll see its height, width and depth so we see in 3D.
    Do you see the tree's depth? No. You see the width and the height but you cannot see how thick a tree is until you go around and get a different perspective. You simply infer how thick it is because we refer back to memories of other trees we have seen. We safely assume that how thick the tree is will be the depth as well.

    If there is a book standing up on a table at eye level, you can't tell how thick the book is until you see it from the side.
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    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    You might want to have a look at Karl Pribram's ideas regarding the holonomic brain model of cognitive function whereby sensory inputs received by the brain are proposed by Pribram to be fourier transformed by the brain to project the spatio-temporal context of the information and restore a notion of an external environment. It is speculative and there are ardent critics but it is very interesting.

    Edit: Get your hands on Michael Talbot's book "The Holographic Universe". It is right down your alley. Half of it made sense (which is the half that made this book worthwhile, but the remaining half ventured too far into 'woo' land in my opinion)....*whispers* but don't tell anyone on this forum that I mentioned this book or I will be strangled.

    PS That Pinker article you hyperlinked to ROTS is a great read. There is a lot to absorb. Interestingly he views the fourier transform viewpoint quite favourably.
    Last edited by Implicate Order; August 24th, 2014 at 07:52 AM.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReligionOfTheSemites View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    If you look at a tree you'll see its height, width and depth so we see in 3D.
    Do you see the tree's depth? No. You see the width and the height but you cannot see how thick a tree is until you go around and get a different perspective. You simply infer how thick it is because we refer back to memories of other trees we have seen. We safely assume that how thick the tree is will be the depth as well.

    If there is a book standing up on a table at eye level, you can't tell how thick the book is until you see it from the side.
    Actually we do see the world in 3d so long as we have two eyes and can synthesis the separate images into a single one in our brain. Binocularity is a great advantage for us as a species.

    It does have limits though and distance tends to flatten our perception of depth.
    I had a great deal of fun years ago experimenting with the effects of changing my effective pupillary width with optical instruments constructed from glass prisms and lenses. The effects of changing which side of the centerline my eyes were on was very disorienting because the depth perception reversed. Things that were farther away looked closer.

    The instruments to explore this are really just simple combinations of simple periscopes. You might even be able to find examples of them on amateur websites now.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReligionOfTheSemites View Post
    Do we see in 2-dimensions or 3-dimensions?
    We see in 2D; our brains interpret the 2D images in 3D using a great variety of methods.

    The 3rd dimension may be an illusion. Like when we see a painting of a nice landscape.
    Well, it's not an illusion since it accurately portrays reality. It is more an interpretation than an illusion.
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  10. #9  
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    A related bit of info: Dyslexics frequently have problems with letter reversal. They see w-a-s and read it as S-a-w, or a-w-a-y and try to read it as ay-wa. The 2D world of flat paper is an abnormal environment. The real world we are evolved to deal with has three dimensions. I think the reversing of the image must be an adaptation to this that has survival value. If you see a single glimps of a predator or a food item but can rotat that image in your mind so that you recognize it from different angles as the same thing then that improves your chance of getting something to eat or avoiding being eaten.

    Some years ago a western missionary dealing with a very isolated tribe showed them a movie. They coud not understand what they were seeing. After he taught them to read, they were able to understand the movie as images of a 3D reality on a 2D surface.
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    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    Pattern recognition by the brain continually amazes me. There is some substantial cross-referencing going on in the brain with memory that occurs subliminally yet is very powerful.

    "I cdn'uolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg: the phaonmneel pweor of the hmuan mnid. It deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae for a pttaren to be rceogsined. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit mcuh porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not apepare to raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe"

    Note the above was derived from a wiki article on Typoglycemia, an urban legend relating to a fictitious study on cognitive processes but it does demonstrate the power of pattern recognition.
    Last edited by Implicate Order; August 25th, 2014 at 02:23 AM.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Implicate Order View Post
    "I cdn'uolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg: the phaonmneel pweor of the hmuan mnid. It deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae for a pttaren to be rceogsined. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit mcuh porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not apepare to raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe"

    Note the above was derived from a wiki article on Typoglycemia, an urban legend relating to a fictitious study on cognitive processes but it does demonstrate the power of pattern recognition.
    Thanks for sharing.
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  13. #12  
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Thanks for sharing.
    1oopʎqooɔs ɯəlqoɹd ou
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    Quote Originally Posted by Implicate Order View Post
    1oopʎqooɔs ɯəlqoɹd ou
    Upside down mirror script? I haven't practiced reading and writing them since college.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Implicate Order View Post
    1oopʎqooɔs ɯəlqoɹd ou
    Upside down mirror script? I haven't practiced reading and writing them since college.
    It is likely an app. Notice it does not invert the numerals.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    It is likely an app. Notice it does not invert the numerals.
    They have these now?

    Back in the day, I had to practice writing them with a mirror no bigger than the size of my palm. Tried doing the same for Chinese characters but gave up after two days if I remember correctly. It was something about the sequential strokes that makes up each individual character that made it too difficult to process (mentally). My mentor suggested it as a mental exercise for shaping perspective. Little did I realised that it was meant as a realignment exercise.
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  17. #16  
    Forum Masters Degree Implicate Order's Avatar
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  18. #17  
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    Can you see the teapot? You have to un-focus your eyes
    - like when you hold your index finger in front of your face ans see two separate images of it.


    And what does the Lord require of you but to love justice, to be merciful and to walk humbly with Him?
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  19. #18  
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    I have to kiss the screen to see it.


    Animals lacking binocular may gauge distance by jerking their heads. Geese, parrots, deer, are good examples. Oh and chickens - even standing they bob their heads so one eye quickly swaps between two eye positions. Plus if you're always on the go your "eye" stretches along the track of movement. A seagull in flight has no problem judging the distance of other soaring seagulls.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong View Post
    I have to kiss the screen to see it.


    Animals lacking binocular may gauge distance by jerking their heads. Geese, parrots, deer, are good examples. Oh and chickens - even standing they bob their heads so one eye quickly swaps between two eye positions. Plus if you're always on the go your "eye" stretches along the track of movement. A seagull in flight has no problem judging the distance of other soaring seagulls.
    No screen kissing required. Sit back comfortably. Then, as I have said. Hold up your index finger (that's the snot-picker, for you low-brows) so that you see it double. Then shift your unfocussed gaze to the screen.
    And what does the Lord require of you but to love justice, to be merciful and to walk humbly with Him?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    If you look at a tree you'll see its height, width and depth so we see in 3D.
    Yes, but that also involves certain learned processes and experience - a baby reaching out for an object and correlating it's felt size with its distance or the time it takes him to reach for it. I've read that people who have their sight restored late in life, often have trouble with perspective. One guy said at first it seemed to him that that a hall way was actually going to get much smaller and narrower at the end, because of the converging lines.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianeG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    If you look at a tree you'll see its height, width and depth so we see in 3D.
    Yes, but that also involves certain learned processes and experience - a baby reaching out for an object and correlating it's felt size with its distance or the time it takes him to reach for it. I've read that people who have their sight restored late in life, often have trouble with perspective. One guy said at first it seemed to him that that a hall way was actually going to get much smaller and narrower at the end, because of the converging lines.
    But don't even crawling babies know not to wander off the edge of a table or a cliff? let's not talk about negligent parents. That's a whole other can of worms.
    And what does the Lord require of you but to love justice, to be merciful and to walk humbly with Him?
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