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Thread: Evolution doesn't have to take millions of years and doesn't require physical change

  1. #1 Evolution doesn't have to take millions of years and doesn't require physical change 
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    I have recently pondered the two following concepts where a species could essentially "evolve" within a single generation or evolve without physical change.


    Scenario 1: A powerful virus spreads through the population of a species, and enough genetically indifferent survive with immunity to that virus (very likely in a species with vast population)/

    Scenario 2: I would like to call this one social evolution, after watching the following video and having my mind absolutely blown I have a new concept to bring to the table.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZckyUgrcaTg


    What if a group of gorillas is trained to communicate just like in the video but for survival optimized communication with words such as "food" "drink" "fight" "retreat" "here" "you" "good" "bad".

    These gorillas would be able to survive FAR more effectively resulting in these communication trained species of gorilla to thrive better.



    The last step to secure this herd is to teach them to teach their youth starting an ever lasting process. That will manifest itself resulting in more advanced communication and optimized communication, as packs with more efficient communication will again thrive more.

    Not due to physical adaptations, but to do the social changes among the pack.






    I haven't seen any studies been done with similar process, I believe something like this could start a snowball of increased intelligence of gorillas for example. 1000 Years from now I am sure the communication will have become far more advanced. Perhaps one could be soon.






    Let me know what you think


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    Forum Sophomore Estheria Quintessimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    I have recently pondered the two following concepts where a species could essentially "evolve" within a single generation or evolve without physical change.
    Let me first say I am not a scientist. I am most likely more like you, a mainstream human-being and part of this world with a severe interrest in these things. But I think I have a bit more background info to add to your assumptions or ideas, untill a real scientist responds.
    I am 42, I have no idea how old you are, but from your post I am assuyming you are much younger than me or atleast have been wondering about these things a lot fewer years then I have. I have been wondering about these things for atleast 30 years. Not 24h/7d/12m/30y ofcourse.

    So...
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Scenario 1: A powerful virus spreads through the population of a species, and enough genetically indifferent survive with immunity to that virus (very likely in a species with vast population)/
    I am not entirely sure what you are proposing here. I think you are posing here the idea that IF a very powerful virus enters a certain species populus, it will change this species DNA. Well... that happens all the time. In fact the introduction of diseases within the human genome (excuse me scientists if I do not get all my words right not being a evolutionary scientist) is one of the ways we are able to track our own human species diversity and ancestory over countless milenea. When the Neaderthal was first discovered it was first thought to be a direct ancestor. Nowadays we know he actually lived side-by-side with modern man. Reading and understannding DNA and the introduction of virusses within the human populus that made the species adapt their DNA to secure the species against a particular virus is one of the ways scientists have been able to figure out how the Great-Ape evolutionary tree actually looks like.

    But I think this is what you were not proposing. To me it almost sounds you are actually asking if it is possible if the introduction of a particular virus within a species genome could radically alter the species over night it would become a different animal all to gether. This sounds like a Creationist proposal to me. Science never says never,.... but the number crunching on the odds results towards such minimals... it is shere impossible. I have read and know enough about science I can safely say it has not happened on this planet yet. Not because I know this stuff (I do not, not being a scientist), but because I know those that actually DO know this stuff (the scientists) will back me up on this.




    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Scenario 2: I would like to call this one social evolution, after watching the following video and having my mind absolutely blown I have a new concept to bring to the table.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZckyUgrcaTg

    What if a group of gorillas is trained to communicate just like in the video but for survival optimized communication with words such as "food" "drink" "fight" "retreat" "here" "you" "good" "bad".
    These gorillas would be able to survive FAR more effectively resulting in these communication trained species of gorilla to thrive better.
    The last step to secure this herd is to teach them to teach their youth starting an ever lasting process. That will manifest itself resulting in more advanced communication and optimized communication, as packs with more efficient communication will again thrive more.
    Not due to physical adaptations, but to do the social changes among the pack.

    I haven't seen any studies been done with similar process, I believe something like this could start a snowball of increased intelligence of gorillas for example. 1000 Years from now I am sure the communication will have become far more advanced. Perhaps one could be soon.
    I have been following Koko for many years. But you are seriously missing a point here.

    The problem with the Gorillas are not the Gorilla's lack of communication skills themselves towards us.... it is us... we... we humans are the problem for them!

    Have you even bothered to ask yourself why it is even possible for a Great Ape, a mountain Gorilla as Koko is, to use american sign language? Language actually comes natural to them. The problem is that we humans do not see it. Why not? Because we humans use language through vocal communication all the time and think that is the Walhalla of communication.
    BULLSHIT! Ants probably communicate much better within a large community of single entities than we humans ever are capable of.

    Gorilla's do not vocalize. This does not mean they do not communicate with eachother or that their way of communicating is any different and has any less impact towards the others within their own community. In fact they communicate with eachother all the time!
    But for us humans to understand them or visa versa... is like asking an english person to start speaking chinese over night. It takes time. Scientists have known now for several decades Great Apes have a natural ability for language and many other traits we think off as human abilities only.

    But it is only our human ARROGANCE, to not see the beauty in nature. And it is only our human ARROGANNCE to negate the sentience within the Great Apes.

    And when science puts ALL the facts on the table... they bumb into that one fucked up issue that is holding humanity back..... Religion.

    Religion is holding us back. Religion is holding us back in seeing what the natural world is truly made off.

    ANYWAY

    Train Gorilla's... I think we should train humans so they understand they are NOT the only sentient beings on this planet.

    Because what did Koko teach you, when you saw that video? That she lost her kitten, and that she misssed her kitten.
    How could you NOT think she is sentient? SHE IS !

    Anyway Sciencenoob do you know Diane Fossey? Sacrifices in the name of science have been made. Look into her.
    Dian Fossey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Or go see: Gorillas in the mist http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095243/


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    Forum Masters Degree DianeG's Avatar
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    Well I think you are right - natural selection can happen fast or slow, depending on the environmental pressure. But even with a virus, it might be selective in different ways, favoring people with certain types of immune cells, or being more deadly to the very young and old, or weak and under nourished, and even, in the case of SAARS, healthy middle age people whose immune system's over reacted. So the people who survive might survive for slightly different reasons.

    Even if a deadly virus spreads through a population, killing half the people, that doesn't necessarily mean that remaining people or their off spring will be resistant to it the next time around. It may take generations to build up natural resistance. And resistance can probably be lost as well. Nature is conservative and doesn't waste protein and energy on things that are not necessary for survival - use it or lose it. In microbiology, antibiotics that are not used because of resistance can sometimes be reintroduced effectively years later.
    Last edited by DianeG; July 11th, 2014 at 12:50 AM. Reason: typo
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    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
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    ~ ' Estheria Quintessimo;' excellent post..' Nothing to add..

    ( Wishes they would or could fix the 'Like' button.)
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    Forum Professor jrmonroe's Avatar
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    The BBC recently reported on deciphering chimp gestures.
    Grief is the price we pay for love. (CM Parkes) Our postillion has been struck by lightning. (Unknown) War is always the choice of the chosen who will not have to fight. (Bono) The years tell much what the days never knew. (RW Emerson) Reality is not always probable, or likely. (JL Borges)
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