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Thread: "Love for God" vs "Love for Special Someone or Family (Husband/Wife and Kids)"

  1. #1 "Love for God" vs "Love for Special Someone or Family (Husband/Wife and Kids)" 
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    Im pretty sure when i was little (around 7-11 yrs old), in the church the priest has said "love God above all else" and as far i as i can recall it was in the first commandment. But recently when i checked the net to make sure, it becomes different to what i long knew (http://www.truthaboutsundayworship.c...mmandments.jpg). Whether it was how the priest describes the first commandment or the commandment has been edited, i guess it wont do much of an impact to the core of our topic. Even though i become a realist (freethinker, atheist or whatever u want to call it), this has nothing to do how i identify or analyze the degree of human emotion esp. love.

    Okay, here's the deal:
    I first heard of "love God above all else" when i was a kiddo so many times. But when i was 16 yrs old, i heard the line "Your special someone will be the most important person in your life" from the anime Love Hina. Moreover, from the time afterwards i cant recall anymore, i saw a happy/merry scene of a father with her little daughter (around 5 yrs old) from another anime. The daughter said to his father "Papa, i will marry you someday" and the father smilingly replied "Someday, you will find a man you will love more than your papa" but it was something not yet comprehensible for the child so we can say that its a memory as of yet.
    During back when i was 16 yrs old and heard of that Love Hina line, a me who don't have yet any clue what true love is, i got curious of what the line is really meant and why it was like that ("more than than yourself.... hmmmm") and thinking about it during the nights. When i somewhat made a simulation (of pretending to have a lover and what things i want or what i should do), i somewhat feels that selfless something as a product of your emotion (love). Its like i did have a glimpse of what is true love. It can be unbelievable for a 16 yrs old to perceive that, u guess so too?
    Same time back when i was 16 yrs old, now that i was thinking of the Love Hina line, i recalled about the first commandment "love God above all else". (!) Now there you have it - a contradiction. It was so intriguing for me that i tried thinking a lot of it. I finally reached a conclusion of my analysis. That a person who have a special someone or a family (husband/wife and kids) who he truly hold dear is IMPOSSIBLE to have God as his foremost love. At the same time, i figured something about the 10 commandment (that i know [note: mine might be a little different like i stated previously but theres no something big of a difference]). That, for me, it was merely a human fabrication that the religion sect pushed so hard to appear it that it was God's message to Moses (the tablet). My basis on that, aside from the content of the 10 commandment that is odd for me (intuition), that the God wont made that kind of mistake that He wouldn't know how His' creation's feeling work (therefore, He wouldn't put it [above all else] like that). What do think? Love for God<Love for Special Someone; or Love for God>Love for Special Someone?
    Let's say that 10 commandment never really say "love God above all else":
    The deal will goes like this: who you loves most - "God" or "special someone/husband/wife/kids"?
    I hope your answer for this will be based upon what your mind and heart speaks. Don't forget "action speaks louder than words". That the degree of your love is due the forged bond (time spent). I hope you won't be like those who quickly said "God!". You can already smell the reason they used to make the answer, but i want a story-like answer.


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    Forum Professor scoobydoo1's Avatar
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    I'm facing some difficulties following what you have written. Can you concisely sum up your question?


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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    He wants to know if we think the commandment to "Love God above all else" makes sense. Would a God who understood the powerful feelings we can have for our family and friends seriously ask that we love her more?

    @xingha: If you were faced with the choice of allowing your wife to die, or half of the population of the world to die, which would you choose? If you opted to save half the population of the world, then it could be argued that you loved God more. In such an instance God equates to life in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    He wants to know if we think the commandment to "Love God above all else" makes sense.
    Possessive personality if requested/instructed/demanded in person.

    If conveyed by a third party, I guess my reaction would be a raised eyebrow, mild amusement, sighing, and followed on by silent laughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Would a God who understood the powerful feelings we can have for our family and friends seriously ask that we love her more?
    I honestly do not care.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    @xingha: If you were faced with the choice of allowing your wife to die, or half of the population of the world to die, which would you choose? If you opted to save half the population of the world, then it could be argued that you loved God more. In such an instance God equates to life in general.
    That's good. Damn good.

    Ball's in your court, xingha.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    Forum Masters Degree DianeG's Avatar
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    I always thought God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son was the weirdest story in the Bible, topping even talking snakes and over crowded arks.

    Although, I like Wood Allen's version of it:

    And Abraham awoke in the middle of the night and said to his only son, Isaac, "I have had a dream where the voice of the Lord sayeth that I must sacrifice my only son, so put your pants on."

    And Isaac trembled and said, "So what did you say? I mean when He brought this whole thing up?"

    "What am I going to say?" Abraham said. "I'm standing there at two A.M. I'm in my underwear with the Creator of the Universe. Should I argue?"

    "Well, did he say why he wants me sacrificed?" Isaac asked his father.

    But Abraham said, "The faithful do not question. Now let's go because I have a heavy day tomorrow."

    And Sarah who heard Abraham's plan grew vexed and said, "How doth thou know it was the Lord and not, say, thy friend who loveth practical jokes, for the Lord hateth practical jokes and whosoever shall pull one shall be delivered into the hands of his enemies whether they pay the delivery charge or not."

    And Abraham answered, "Because I know it was the Lord. It was a deep, resonant voice, well modulated, and nobody in the desert can get a rumble in it like that."

    And Sarah said, "And thou art willing to carry out this senseless act?" But Abraham told her, "Frankly yes, for to question the Lord's word is one of the worst things a person can do, particularly with the economy in the state it's in."

    And so he took Isaac to a certain place and prepared to sacrifice him but at the last minute the Lord stayed Abraham's hand and said, "How could thou doest such a thing?"

    And Abraham said, "But thou said ---"

    "Never mind what I said," the Lord spake. "Doth thou listen to every crazy idea that comes thy way?" And Abraham grew ashamed. "Er - not really … no."

    "I jokingly suggest thou sacrifice Isaac and thou immediately runs out to do it."

    And Abraham fell to his knees, "See, I never know when you're kidding."

    And the Lord thundered, "No sense of humor. I can't believe it."

    "But doth this not prove I love thee, that I was willing to donate mine only son on thy whim?"

    And the Lord said, "It proves that some men will follow any order no matter how asinine as long as it comes from a resonant, well-modulated voice."

    And with that, the Lord bid Abraham get some rest and check with him tomorrow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    I'm facing some difficulties following what you have written. Can you concisely sum up your question?

    For my own analysis, there's no way that those who have love for God and love for their love ones (special someone/husband/wife/children) have God as he/her most loved (it will NEVER be!). I asked my work mates who they love most - God or their special someone? Obviously, i knew they would answer God but i do hope they could give me answer from both their mind and heart and not just mind alone. The fact that God is the supreme being and must be hailed above all else makes them think that no matter what they should answer me "God!". But im not convinced through what i am seeing in reality - action speaks louder than words (i witnessed numerous times the selfless/self-sacrificial love of a husband to his wife or vice-versa or the parents to their child, way way more far than what they do for their God). I just wanted to be convinced that there were a person who love God most than his/her special someone.
    Last edited by xingha; April 28th, 2014 at 01:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    He wants to know if we think the commandment to "Love God above all else" makes sense. Would a God who understood the powerful feelings we can have for our family and friends seriously ask that we love her more?

    @xingha: If you were faced with the choice of allowing your wife to die, or half of the population of the world to die, which would you choose? If you opted to save half the population of the world, then it could be argued that you loved God more. In such an instance God equates to life in general.
    Right, but not about God asking to love him more. Rather, if there were a person, by heart, loves God more than his/her family.


    I do not believe in any superstition so if i have to choose population over my wife, then it probably moral reason but definitely NEVER i do it because of love for God. This is what i hate - people going technical by saying that when they choose population then they love God more. Pardon me but this kind of technicalities doesnt really satisfy me for an answer. I would rather ask you why you love God more than your family by stating numerous action that implies your love for God and your love for family, and then weigh things. For example, i pray and spent time on church 10 hrs daily, i work 3 hrs a day for my family, i always took 50% of my earnings to buy food and share it to those who in need coz God teachings says so and my family have to endure the no luxury meals, etc etc etc (just hearing this theres no any normal person would even do this).
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianeG View Post

    But Abraham said, "The faithful do not question. Now let's go because I have a heavy day tomorrow."
    Sorry but im not trying to be rude, but this does makes no sense to me. You cant use this kind of statement as justification (sounds more a technical excuse for me). Well, its your own freedom to believe without questioning. If i have to believe, thats for my special someone or my child (you know what i mean ahahaha).
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    Quote Originally Posted by xingha View Post
    I just wanted to be convinced that there were a person who love God most than his/her special someone.
    Hmm, I should point out that seeking information to confirm preconceptions is a sign of confirmation bias.

    However, would the sanity of the samples be a concern should I or someone else provide them? I'm pretty sure it's easy enough to google up random news articles from all over the world where loved ones such as parents or spouses may have murdered their kin or have denied them some form of medical treatment that would have otherwise had a chance of saving their lives (in the name of their preferred deity and/or the customs of their belief system).

    Are you asking us to provide these form of samples?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xingha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DianeG View Post

    But Abraham said, "The faithful do not question. Now let's go because I have a heavy day tomorrow."
    Sorry but im not trying to be rude, but this does makes no sense to me. You cant use this kind of statement as justification (sounds more a technical excuse for me). Well, its your own freedom to believe without questioning. If i have to believe, thats for my special someone or my child (you know what i mean ahahaha).
    It's not really supposed to make sense. The dialogue I quoted was written by Woody Allen, a comedian and film maker. It was a parody of the the story in the Bible in which God tells Abraham to sacrifice his son, Issac. (Sometimes parody doesn't translate well into other languages.) The humor in it comes from Allen trying to imagine how actual people - if they were anything like us at all - would act or talk in this situation. It basically demonstrates that the situation is absurd, and what God is asking is crazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xingha View Post

    Right, but not about God asking to love him more. Rather, if there were a person, by heart, loves God more than his/her family.


    I do not believe in any superstition so if i have to choose population over my wife, then it probably moral reason but definitely NEVER i do it because of love for God. This is what i hate - people going technical by saying that when they choose population then they love God more. Pardon me but this kind of technicalities doesnt really satisfy me for an answer. I would rather ask you why you love God more than your family by stating numerous action that implies your love for God and your love for family, and then weigh things. For example, i pray and spent time on church 10 hrs daily, i work 3 hrs a day for my family, i always took 50% of my earnings to buy food and share it to those who in need coz God teachings says so and my family have to endure the no luxury meals, etc etc etc (just hearing this theres no any normal person would even do this).
    I don't know if this helps, but one of the justifications for celibate clergy is avoiding exactly these kind of dilemmas. Priests are then free of family loyalties, obligations, and influence that might interfere with caring for all members of their flock impartially, or attending to other religious duties. Priests and nuns might be examples of those who see themselves as putting God first.
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    Another way of looking at the question might be this: since human beings are flawed, it is possible that someone you respect and admire, or love and care for, will ask you do something that you know is morally wrong. And you are obligated to do the right thing, even if it means losing the good will or love of that person.
    Last edited by DianeG; April 29th, 2014 at 09:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianeG View Post
    Another way of looking at the question might be this: since human beings are flawed, it is possible that someone you respect and admire, or love and care for, will ask you do something that you know is morally wrong. And you are obligated to the right thing, even if it means losing the good will or love of that person.
    There are cases where loving parents, children, spouses have turned each other in to the law for crimes/offenses committed.
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    I think that people have personified god as this entity that craves attention and affection from everyone, if not demands it. However, if I were to "play" along with the theory that god exists without a question and in the bible; I would say that the commandment in question is illogical and that since god also wants us to love our father and mother, it would feel honour that we too are following that demand or commandment. But from what I recall of the bible, god seems to challenge and test its believers on faith love and trust. *shrugs
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DianeG View Post
    Another way of looking at the question might be this: since human beings are flawed, it is possible that someone you respect and admire, or love and care for, will ask you do something that you know is morally wrong. And you are obligated to the right thing, even if it means losing the good will or love of that person.
    There are cases where loving parents, children, spouses have turned each other in to the law for crimes/offenses committed.
    The question of turning some one in to authorities might be a separate moral quandary, but in any ethical system, you can't pass the buck by saying I, myself, did something I knew was immoral or wrong to make someone I love happy or avoid their disapproval.

    Ethical dilemmas like "would you steal to feed your starving children" or "would you lie to the Gestapo to save the innocent people hiding in your attic" are not really examples of putting loved ones before God. They are examples of choosing between the lesser of two evils, which is still a moral dilemma regardless of the parties involved or how much you love them.
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    Forum Masters Degree DianeG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    I think that people have personified god as this entity that craves attention and affection from everyone, if not demands it. However, if I were to "play" along with the theory that god exists without a question and in the bible; I would say that the commandment in question is illogical and that since god also wants us to love our father and mother, it would feel honour that we too are following that demand or commandment. But from what I recall of the bible, god seems to challenge and test its believers on faith love and trust. *shrugs
    I agree. Perhaps the only weirder story in the Bible than the one about Abraham is Job. If you're not familiar with it, God praises Job's loyalty, and Satan basically says Job is just sucking up, he's only loyal because of the good things you've given him, but he'd turn on you in a second. So God and Satan set out to wreck his life - ruin his crops, take his livestock, bankrupt him, set shit on fire, kill his kids, cover him with boils and festering sores, etc. to see if Job will crack, but he doesn't.

    In an odd way, Job comes off seeming more noble and admirable than either Satan or God. Score one for the mortals!
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    He wants to know if we think the commandment to "Love God above all else" makes sense.
    Possessive personality if requested/instructed/demanded in person.

    If conveyed by a third party, I guess my reaction would be a raised eyebrow, mild amusement, sighing, and followed on by silent laughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Would a God who understood the powerful feelings we can have for our family and friends seriously ask that we love her more?
    I honestly do not care.
    Best comment i've read.
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