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Thread: Why are Women generaly smarter than men ?

  1. #1 Why are Women generaly smarter than men ? 
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    Yes, I've begun with an assumption. Knock It over. Or try, at least.


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    Women have contributed to science much less than men. They were made to stay home wiping baby's ass


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    I spelled generally wrong. To help make my case. Do you believe me ? Why, or why not ?
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  5. #4  
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    smarter?

    could you define that a tad more precisely?
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    Okay. Women generally are not smarter than men because women have contributed to science much less than men. They were made to stay home wiping baby's ass
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    Good question. I mean : More fully able to comprehend human experience, existence, the emotional/spiritual in addition to the Empirical. Particularly in communication skills and women are much less influenced by the demands of Ego. I hope this helps, sculptor. You're an artist, this should not be as difficult for you as for Hard Science Devotee's.
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    smarter?

    could you define that a tad more precisely?
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowKazooie9 View Post
    Okay. Women generally are not smarter than men because women have contributed to science much less than men. They were made to stay home wiping baby's ass
    Because of an archaic societal order. I really can't tell if you're (A) Joking (B) Trolling (C) That dumb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YellowKazooie9 View Post
    Okay. Women generally are not smarter than men because women have contributed to science much less than men. They were made to stay home wiping baby's ass
    Because of an archaic societal order. I really can't tell if you're (A) Joking (B) Trolling (C) That dumb.
    Considering that was his ninth account in the last couple weeks, I'll go with: (B) Trolling. (C) works too, though.
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    i think in things like STEM that the sexes are equally smart and capable. but things like risk taking behavior that women are m ore careful and not dumb like us. things like stunts on motorbikes, etc. this is probably from evolution and women having to care for children maybe. this is general because i know there are some risk-taking women too.
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  11. #10  
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    I don't know about all women, nor even most women, but I do know that my woman is close to being a flipping genius.
    I know this because she was smart enough to marry me.
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    Women are much the same as men in qualities like intelligence and ethics. But both of these things need education, support and encouragement to develop. If families and schools encourage/discourage certain interests and skills and behaviours in one or the other gender, that will show up in social and employment statistics sooner or later.

    As for less risk-taking and more nurturing, that's all about how children are raised to meet cultural expectations. We have no way of knowing whether girls/women would take more physical risks (apart from walking down the street every day) or boys/men would take more interest in babies and childcare if they were raised differently. Certainly little girls and primary aged girls are just as adventurous in tree climbing and walking on roofs as any boy. And the generally accepted obsession of many girls and women with horseriding is hardly a risk free pastime. A lot of people tend to regard it as less risky than it is because girls and women are involved rather than from assessing the activity itself. Compare horses and motorbikes. Motorbikes might go faster in many circumstances - but they can't kick out at you while you're washing them down nor can they throw you off at a fence they've decided not to jump nor do they bolt because they're startled by nothing in particular.

    It's probably easier to see cultural indoctrination/ distortion when it's outside your own culture and the attitudes and behaviours are more extreme, (well at least more overtly expressed), than you're used to. 'All men beat their wives, one day you will do the same' | Global Development Professionals Network | Guardian Professional
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    I agree men and women both have a comparable intellect. With some kinds of questions, women will reign supreme, with other questions, men will reign supreme. But i do think women work harder for it. I rarely see a man work on a report for days, months or years, like i have seen women do. So i think that is a reason why there are now slightly more women in science then there are men. There is however not enough data to define who is "superior" as i think there is none.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    The reason I asked for a definition of "smarter" is that, from my experiences and studies, it seems that women excel in certain frames of "smarter", while men excel in other frames.

    There is an old saw that goes, "men build cities, women build communities".
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowKazooie9 View Post
    Okay. Women generally are not smarter than men because women have contributed to science much less than men. They were made to stay home wiping baby's ass
    Strange how your comments directly contradict their message.
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    And a motorbike can't lick you in the face, either. Men are risk-takers. There's a show on American tv called Jackass,' or something. Men doing what men have always done. "Hey, everybody ! Watch this..." is how many men have met their end. Women are more complete. They retain their emotional aspect and augment it with learning. Men tend too dismiss personal/emotional experience as unscientific, which it is, technically. That's the missing component of intelligence men lack, largely. Men are also willfully constrained by the male behavior of pissing on everything and thinking they now own that thing, whether it's a lamp post or an area of intellectual study. Thank's for demonstrating that women have more compassion as well. I regard this as a given.
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Women are much the same as men in qualities like intelligence and ethics. But both of these things need education, support and encouragement to develop. If families and schools encourage/discourage certain interests and skills and behaviours in one or the other gender, that will show up in social and employment statistics sooner or later.

    As for less risk-taking and more nurturing, that's all about how children are raised to meet cultural expectations. We have no way of knowing whether girls/women would take more physical risks (apart from walking down the street every day) or boys/men would take more interest in babies and childcare if they were raised differently. Certainly little girls and primary aged girls are just as adventurous in tree climbing and walking on roofs as any boy. And the generally accepted obsession of many girls and women with horseriding is hardly a risk free pastime. A lot of people tend to regard it as less risky than it is because girls and women are involved rather than from assessing the activity itself. Compare horses and motorbikes. Motorbikes might go faster in many circumstances - but they can't kick out at you while you're washing them down nor can they throw you off at a fence they've decided not to jump nor do they bolt because they're startled by nothing in particular.

    It's probably easier to see cultural indoctrination/ distortion when it's outside your own culture and the attitudes and behaviours are more extreme, (well at least more overtly expressed), than you're used to. 'All men beat their wives, one day you will do the same' | Global Development Professionals Network | Guardian Professional
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    "Comparable", yes. Each gender has it's signature in behavior. Men are better at war, for instance; Women, at peace. Women, I agree, tend to work more diligently. And with less complaining and less pay, I should add. Females are better at communication; males, at bloviating. This may be the reason men dominate the political arena. That's changing, though. Finally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    I agree men and women both have a comparable intellect. With some kinds of questions, women will reign supreme, with other questions, men will reign supreme. But i do think women work harder for it. I rarely see a man work on a report for days, months or years, like i have seen women do. So i think that is a reason why there are now slightly more women in science then there are men. There is however not enough data to define who is "superior" as i think there is none.
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    “Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein

    “Being a woman is a terribly difficult task, since it consists principally in dealing with men.”
    ― Joseph Conrad

    “You educate a man; you educate a man. You educate a woman; you educate a generation.”
    ― Brigham Young

    “As usual, there is a great woman behind every idiot.”
    ― John Lennon

    “Any fool knows men and women think differently at times, but the biggest difference is this. Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget.”
    ― Robert Jordan
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  19. #18  
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    If women are so smart then why can't they give me directions when I am lost in a strange town and they are obviously local? Okay, I'm not even going to listen if they tell me (being male).
    Then, why can't they read maps, but as a male I am good with maps?
    There again, women live longer on average and appear to care more about health and morals.
    It's got to be down to the Y chromosone which basically distinguishes male from female.
    So in a discussion like this you would have to ask:
    Is XY > XX?
    Or is XX > XY?
    (Never can XX = XY.)
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    I agree men and women both have a comparable intellect. With some kinds of questions, women will reign supreme, with other questions, men will reign supreme. But i do think women work harder for it. I rarely see a man work on a report for days, months or years, like i have seen women do. So i think that is a reason why there are now slightly more women in science then there are men. There is however not enough data to define who is "superior" as i think there is none.
    If the differences among people in a group are greater than the differences between groups, I don't know what the advantage is using those differences to sort or classify or screen people. Even if there are few brilliant female mathematicians, if the woman walking into your university is one of them, what do gain by assuming that she isn't the best candidate of all your applicants because she is female?
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    Women are much better than men for they can give life and that's truly astonishing, to me.
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    This conversation is perennial and it always makes me smile, because all men are born of women, so the comparison is rather a moot point.

    One observation does hold true though, and considerable literature attributed to the nature of the woman scorned.
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    They retain their emotional aspect and augment it with learning. Men tend too dismiss personal/emotional experience as unscientific, which it is, technically. That's the missing component of intelligence men lack, largely. Men are also willfully constrained by the male behavior of pissing on everything and thinking they now own that thing, whether it's a lamp post or an area of intellectual study. Thank's for demonstrating that women have more compassion as well. I regard this as a given.
    I'm not very sure if this is based on any psychological or behavioral study of men and women that someone may have stumbled on during research; but rather a personal interpretation of events occurring locally, within one's own life, using poor entertainment television as one's archetype for men as compared to women.
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    They retain their emotional aspect and augment it with learning. Men tend too dismiss personal/emotional experience as unscientific, which it is, technically. That's the missing component of intelligence men lack, largely. Men are also willfully constrained by the male behavior of pissing on everything and thinking they now own that thing, whether it's a lamp post or an area of intellectual study. Thank's for demonstrating that women have more compassion as well. I regard this as a given.
    I'm not very sure if this is based on any psychological or behavioral study of men and women that someone may have stumbled on during research; but rather a personal interpretation of events occurring locally, within one's own life, using poor entertainment television as the source of one's archetype for men when one compares them to women.
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    In other words - even I have to call bull on this one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    The reason I asked for a definition of "smarter" is that, from my experiences and studies, it seems that women excel in certain frames of "smarter", while men excel in other frames.

    There is an old saw that goes, "men build cities, women build communities".
    When you consider, if men were smarter than women who would be the partners of men, how would men measure their intelligence on? The other thing is if women were less smarter than men how did they manage to create smart men? If our societies were imbalanced, how did men get smarter?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Women are much better than men for they can give life and that's truly astonishing, to me.
    I beg to differ, do you think males makes death in their sperm? or don't you think life is in a sperm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    This conversation is perennial and it always makes me smile, because all men are born of women, so the comparison is rather a moot point.

    One observation does hold true though, and considerable literature attributed to the nature of the woman scorned.
    Cher, what is the nature of the woman scorned? Is it different to the nature of the man scorned or do we not have a scorned man?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    If women are so smart then why can't they give me directions when I am lost in a strange town and they are obviously local? Okay, I'm not even going to listen if they tell me (being male).
    Then, why can't they read maps, but as a male I am good with maps?
    There again, women live longer on average and appear to care more about health and morals.
    It's got to be down to the Y chromosone which basically distinguishes male from female.
    So in a discussion like this you would have to ask:


    Is XY > XX?
    Or is XX > XY?
    (Never can XX = XY.)
    My goodness, I really do not understand this. Are you telling me you have asked all the women in the town?
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  30. #29  
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    In this paper, which looked at adult IQs, a five point higher IQ was found for males over females and the standard deviations were found to be equal. Graphed, it looks like this:


    and:
    the number of male and female Mensans in Toronto was tallied. Results: 150 males, 83 females, out of 233 total, giving 35.6% females. So the ratio is 2:1 males to females, the same as attempt to get in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    In this paper, which looked at adult IQs, a five point higher IQ was found for males over females and the standard deviations were found to be equal. Graphed, it looks like this:


    and:
    the number of male and female Mensans in Toronto was tallied. Results: 150 males, 83 females, out of 233 total, giving 35.6% females. So the ratio is 2:1 males to females, the same as attempt to get in.
    That five point difference doesn't really freak me out. Again if the difference within each group is much greater, does a few points here and there matter? There are probably even greater statistical differences between males and females in other traits. It's easy to prove, for example, that men are more aggressive than women, using anything from violent crime statistics to observing normal kindergarteners at play. That said, I know lots of very assertive women, and many shy, introverted guys. Unless you sell insurance or are in marketing research, we deal with people as individuals and in fairly small sample sizes, in which statistics are a great deal less useful.
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    the number of male and female Mensans in Toronto was tallied. Results: 150 males, 83 females, out of 233 total, giving 35.6% females. So the ratio is 2:1 males to females, the same as attempt to get in.
    Sculptor, in looking at the graph and reading your comment, I seem to be having a problem with the demographics of male to female ratio.
    Maybe I an not understanding correctly and maybe you would be so kind and explain it. If you have a ratio of 1 to 1 in terms of male/female birth rate per year. One man can impregnate 100 women in one year, one woman can only have one baby in one year. In what I am alluding to you would have to have a population with more women than men to expand at a rate to suite the reason for the growth. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say. At some point the ratio would have to change to accelerate or curtail the birth rate. We have seven billion people on the planet are we saying the ration is 2 to 1 male to female?
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    stargate
    the ratio of 2:1 was of mensa members in toronto
    which is also roughly the ratio of men to women who tested for admittance to mensa in toronto .
    It just may be that the men geniuses were more insecure than the women geniuses, and needed the prestige of belonging to a club of geniuses to help them get over themselves.
    So the statistic may be meaningless
    Mostly, I posted it for fun and response
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    stargate
    the ratio of 2:1 was of mensa members in toronto
    which is also roughly the ratio of men to women who tested for admittance to mensa.

    So the statistic may be meaningless
    Mostly, I posted it for fun
    OK thanks.
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    As with matters related to politics, it is my personal opinion that 'smart' women are not likely to go and 'blow their cover'. More can be accomplished by quiet work behind the scenes for those who are results oriented rather than egocentric.
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    Quote Originally Posted by umbradiago View Post
    Yes, I've begun with an assumption. Knock It over. Or try, at least.
    because god is a woman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pongo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by umbradiago View Post
    Yes, I've begun with an assumption. Knock It over. Or try, at least.
    because god is a woman
    God is a woman/man, if you like god is "womb man" no man/woman, no god, sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    As with matters related to politics, it is my personal opinion that 'smart' women are not likely to go and 'blow their cover'. More can be accomplished by quiet work behind the scenes for those who are results oriented rather than egocentric.
    To me what is missing is balance. There is a great misconception out there that we have evolved the way we have without the involvement of women. Some cultures believe there is no need to have the female egg because the sperm is sufficient to bring forth life. I think smart women would not have to blow their cover but remove the arrogance through the use of their intellectual power. We have not evolved in the past as a spiral when we have not done so in harmony. We have managed to limp to where we now find ourselves, but it has been without the harmonious development between man and woman.
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  39. #38 ooookay???? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pongo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by umbradiago View Post
    Yes, I've begun with an assumption. Knock It over. Or try, at least.
    because god is a woman
    God is a woman/man, if you like god is "womb man" no man/woman, no god, sorry.
    is this profound because it went over my head.

    are you a foreign national because I don't understand what you are saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pongo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pongo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by umbradiago View Post
    Yes, I've begun with an assumption. Knock It over. Or try, at least.
    because god is a woman
    God is a woman/man, if you like god is "womb man" no man/woman, no god, sorry.

    is this profound because it went over my head.

    are you a foreign national because I don't understand what you are saying.
    You said god was a woman, I said god was a man/woman, what has that got to do with a foreign national? I don't understand what you are saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pongo View Post
    is this profound because it went over my head.
    It's Stargate.
    93% woo, 11% complete and utter drivel 1 and 26.4% unable to express himself clearly. (And about 62.93% not bothering to be coherent).

    1 That's 52% complete drivel and 71.5% utter drivel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pongo View Post
    is this profound because it went over my head.
    It's Stargate.
    93% woo, 11% complete and utter drivel 1 and 26.4% unable to express himself clearly. (And about 62.93% not bothering to be coherent).

    1 That's 52% complete drivel and 71.5% utter drivel.

    You forgot to add SD-values.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Because they made something, that can make them look prettier. Makeup.
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    The dumbest thing that women do is to use perfume. They don't seem to realize that the most attractive smell for a man is the scent of a woman.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    The dumbest thing that women do is to use perfume. They don't seem to realize that the most attractive smell for a man is the scent of a woman.
    I am so happy their are some real and truthful men alive Sculptor, I was getting scared I was alone. Haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pongo View Post
    is this profound because it went over my head.
    It's Stargate.
    93% woo, 11% complete and utter drivel 1 and 26.4% unable to express himself clearly. (And about 62.93% not bothering to be coherent).

    1 That's 52% complete drivel and 71.5% utter drivel.

    You forgot to add SD-values.
    You don't sound like a wizard to me, are you an impostor?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    The dumbest thing that women do is to use perfume. They don't seem to realize that the most attractive smell for a man is the scent of a woman.
    I've done long runs with my wife. I prefer her freshly showered....
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    There is a story about Napoleon(returning from a campaigne), wherein, he sent a message ahead to Josephine:
    Will be in Paris in 2 days. Don't bathe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    The dumbest thing that women do is to use perfume. They don't seem to realize that the most attractive smell for a man is the scent of a woman.
    Perfume makes them more attractive. For me atleast.
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    Women are less disposable than men, but not smarter. They have greater communication skills because they were the ones that really formed society while the men were out hunting. The roles make sense this way, because it didn't threaten the life of a tribe as much should a man die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    There is a story about Napoleon(returning from a campaigne), wherein, he sent a message ahead to Josephine:
    Will be in Paris in 2 days. Don't bathe.
    Would a comment about the French and their hygiene be inappropriate?

    I tell you what, you can help yourself to all the unclean women out there. I won't stand in your way...
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    I'm just saying: Stand downwind of a woman who is ovulating awash in her pheromones with no other smells to distract you.....wow
    The mind follows a path that it has known for millions of generations.

    We are, after all, are we not, all animals?
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    I don't belive women are smarter than men or vice - verse. Peoples intelligence (if it can truly be measured) should be based on what skills they have/ do individually.

    If you put someone in a position where they are clueless, they can either adapt or fail. It will be their own ambition/intuition/drive that will help to save them, if they wish to.

    I don't care if you are male or female, the more you learn in life , the better, it might help you one day, or, if it doesn't help you, you can pass on your wisdom or lend assistance to somebody that will benefit from it, however insignificant it might seem.
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    Just a comment on male competitiveness, and risk taking. It has nothing to do with being smart or dumb. Males are competitive, and risk takers, for the same reason women are obsessed with their physical appearance. To be more attractive to the opposite gender. Young women, at the peak of their fertility, are more attracted to high status males. As a result, males are always searching for status. This is more true for males who have high levels of testosterone, meaning young men.. Evolution will support males who achieve higher status, since they are more successful in reproduction, and this requires competitiveness and more risk taking.

    It is also interesting to note how testosterone injections change female behaviour. This is done for women who suffer the problem of gender misidentification, and get male hormone shots to restore them to what they see as their 'correct' gender. Such women, with more testosterone, tend to become more competitive than 'normal' women.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pongo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by umbradiago View Post
    Yes, I've begun with an assumption. Knock It over. Or try, at least.
    because god is a woman
    God is a woman/man, if you like god is "womb man" no man/woman, no god, sorry.
    What about 'his-story and her-pes?I notice women get the blame for that one!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    There is a story about Napoleon(returning from a campaigne), wherein, he sent a message ahead to Josephine:
    Will be in Paris in 2 days. Don't bathe.
    Would a comment about the French and their hygiene be inappropriate?

    I tell you what, you can help yourself to all the unclean women out there. I won't stand in your way...
    I don't think sculptor is speaking of unclean women as being attractive, just making the point that dousing oneself with scent does not automatically make a woman more attractive.

    Sometimes a woman (or man) will pass me in the store and the scent of their perfume/cologne will almost make me wretch because it is so overwhelming and lingering.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    It is also interesting to note how testosterone injections change female behaviour. This is done for women who suffer the problem of gender misidentification, and get male hormone shots to restore them to what they see as their 'correct' gender. Such women, with more testosterone, tend to become more competitive than 'normal' women.
    Of course there is that one confounding variable: they are deliberately choosing to adopt a "male" identity. It's possible they become more competitive because they perceive it to be part of their new gender role.


    On the other hand, I've often questioned what makes competition so "fun" or "exhilirating", and clearly the answer has to be hormonal. It's a euphoric feeling, like some kind of recreational drug is being injected into my veins. If it's not testosterone, then I must wonder what chemical it is. And women are not completely devoid of testosterone, so they can, of course, be competitive also sometimes.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    ... Sometimes a woman (or man) will pass me in the store and the scent of their perfume/cologne will almost make me wretch because it is so overwhelming and lingering.
    Yeh, me too. Some times the stuff irritates my eyes too.
    (overlong? anecdote)
    When at my last university, I had the time, during midterm week, to "preregister" for the next quarter's classes, and the computer threw it out because I always carried an overload. Though I had an apartment next to the campus, my mailing address was still at my cottage in the country. After the term was over, I got there and discovered that I had no classes(a damned long series of deleted expletives followed). I really enjoyed my few days off in the country almost as much as I enjoyed the university. So--- I went back to the U and hunted up a dean, and told him of my problem. While he was getting my records, I spent a day organizing my apartment, and a sleepless night. Back in his office the next day he told me that the computer kicked my schedule out because I couldn't take 34 hours---full time required 12, and 18 was the normal max. So, I offered the compromise: "If I get a C, I'll drop a class". He responded that he hoped that I would get better than a C---so I asked him to actually open my file and have a look inside. The main problem we then discovered, was that I had skipped many 100 and 200 level classes required for a degree while accumulating over twice the number of hours required for a degree mostly of 300 and 400 level classes(400 were mostly seminars full of graduate students)----We found a new compromise, I could keep my overloads as long as I packed in one lower level degree requirement each term---he had me sign a "contract" to that effect, and see him every quarter . Which leads us back to the perfume
    In one massive lecture hall with a class led by professor phd. Ash, I sat in front, and would occasionally interrupt him when what he was saying seemed different than what was in the text. For which I apologized after the lecture was over. One fine day, just as the seats were filling up, a woman came and sat down near me, and the smell just about knocked me out-------no chairs left in the first few rows, so I sat in the isle beyond the cloud of stink----An obnoxious young t.a. came down and told me I couldn't sit there---then insisted---I resisted and refused to move to the back of the bus. (did you wanna guess who won that dispute?)

    I would have rather sat next to someone who peed their pants than nearer to that horrid chemical stew.
    Last edited by sculptor; April 19th, 2014 at 08:41 AM.
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    I'm one of those people who can't walk down the cleaning products or personal products aisles at supermarkets. The smell makes me dizzy. Just like it used to when catching a lift first thing in the morning at an office filled with men - most of whom used aftershave. I understand the idea of aftershave, but why so much??!?
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Women are less disposable than men, but not smarter. They have greater communication skills because they were the ones that really formed society while the men were out hunting. The roles make sense this way, because it didn't threaten the life of a tribe as much should a man die.
    Women are less disposable than men,
    I would be very, very happy if you would please explain this for me. Thank you.
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    I think that Sow's comment makes perfect sense. I don't really feel one gender has an advantage over the other, as far as intellegence is concerned. However the female gender is far more important, in the big picture, of survival of any mammalian species, for obvious reasons. Intelligence is relative to the genetic and the place in society an individual is, I believe intelligent people find themselves a compatable partner and rear a generation that can resolve some of the social and environmental issues that challenge our species, and the entire planet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    I don't think sculptor is speaking of unclean women as being attractive, just making the point that dousing oneself with scent does not automatically make a woman more attractive.

    Sometimes a woman (or man) will pass me in the store and the scent of their perfume/cologne will almost make me wretch because it is so overwhelming and lingering.
    I agree that overpowering perfume is awful. But the notion that a woman not bathing for two days is appealing is...well, a bit off for me. I suppose if the woman does nothing but lounge around and eat grapes. My wife works hard, though...
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    because they are cute , polite and vulnerable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    I don't think sculptor is speaking of unclean women as being attractive, just making the point that dousing oneself with scent does not automatically make a woman more attractive.

    Sometimes a woman (or man) will pass me in the store and the scent of their perfume/cologne will almost make me wretch because it is so overwhelming and lingering.
    I agree that overpowering perfume is awful. But the notion that a woman not bathing for two days is appealing is...well, a bit off for me. I suppose if the woman does nothing but lounge around and eat grapes. My wife works hard, though...
    I think we are pretty much at the same place in our thinking now. Sweaty parts can get very 'ripe', male or female, and the more protein (esp. animal protein) in the diet, the more frequent the need for bathing, in my experience.

    Some cultures seem to have a greater appreciation for spicy foods and pungent cheeses and it does lead me to wonder if the functionality of our olfactory senses in relation to human scent and pheromones may be somehow intertwined. As example, hubby despises any perfume and does not like the smell of mint, yet I can cook with garlic and onion, even if he is not eating the same dish, and he does not find me offensive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by keeseguy View Post
    I think that Sow's comment makes perfect sense. I don't really feel one gender has an advantage over the other, as far as intellegence is concerned. However the female gender is far more important, in the big picture, of survival of any mammalian species, for obvious reasons. Intelligence is relative to the genetic and the place in society an individual is, I believe intelligent people find themselves a compatable partner and rear a generation that can resolve some of the social and environmental issues that challenge our species, and the entire planet.
    However the female gender is far more important, in the big picture, of survival of any mammalian species, for obvious reasons.
    Sorry not so obvious to me, can you explain?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    There is a story about Napoleon(returning from a campaigne), wherein, he sent a message ahead to Josephine:
    Will be in Paris in 2 days. Don't bathe.
    Would a comment about the French and their hygiene be inappropriate?

    I tell you what, you can help yourself to all the unclean women out there. I won't stand in your way...
    I don't think sculptor is speaking of unclean women as being attractive, just making the point that dousing oneself with scent does not automatically make a woman more attractive.

    Sometimes a woman (or man) will pass me in the store and the scent of their perfume/cologne will almost make me wretch because it is so overwhelming and lingering.
    Sculptor is talking about the stimulating effect of the the human smell, it has nothing to do with unclean women. Fortunately some men and women can still enjoy the natural smells of the body. We fool ourselves in believing we can get away from these things but we cannot. I know the smell of my wife and love it, and BTW she is very clean.

    I know what Cher, is saying sometimes I want to vomit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Sorry not so obvious to me, can you explain?
    For the same reason you can't usually hunt does. One male can mate with multiple females, but a female can only carry so many young at a time.
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    I understand what lies behind the "females are less disposable" comment, but that is not really elevant to humans in today's world. Since early death rates are so low, we do not need to maximise birth rates any more. In fact, keeping birth rates relatively low (2.1 children per woman on average) is eminently desirable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Sorry not so obvious to me, can you explain?
    For the same reason you can't usually hunt does. One male can mate with multiple females, but a female can only carry so many young at a time.
    In the case of most mammalian species, the female is the one that bears the greatest risk and burden of bearing, birthing and nurturing the young. Mate selection is therefore quite critical for viable offspring. Impregnating a female is one thing. A female that has good genetics as well as good nurturing skills is as much an asset to her group as is the best hunter.
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    Stargate....Really? A male's reproductive responsibility is done at conception. The female body produces the energy, not only to give birth, but to suckle the infant to the age where it is able to digest normal nourishment, maybe I am missing something.
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    Hey, don't insult Stargate here guys, he's asking a sincere question here. If a male dies, the survivability of the tribe is not very effected because they can reproduce at the same level. If a woman dies, that is one less person who can create more young for the tribe.

    Yes, it is less relevant in the modern world. Monogamy reinforces its irrelevance. But modern conditions don't change the factors that effected our evolution/earlier state in creation.

    Dr. Strangelove plans to use computers to select survivors of nuclear war at a ratio of ten "stimulating" females for every man — Critical Commons
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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Hey, don't insult Stargate here guys, he's asking a sincere question here.
    I have to agree with Sow on this one. If a member genuinely doesn't understand a concept and they politely ask to clarification, there is no need to make fun of them. I know it's tough, but don't let animosity from one thread or past behavior carry over into every other thread. The mods will have to step in and smack wrists with rulers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by keeseguy View Post
    Stargate....Really? A male's reproductive responsibility is done at conception. The female body produces the energy, not only to give birth, but to suckle the infant to the age where it is able to digest normal nourishment, maybe I am missing something.
    I think you are missing a lot. The female makes the egg, it is fertilized by the sperm, the energy for reproduction the same, however, the evolutionary procedure is done in the females body. It is not just what the mother produces that makes the baby suck the breast and drink the milk, it is the process of both parent that makes life. There is no special importance in the male and female production.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    the evolutionary procedure is done in the females body.
    Er, what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by keeseguy View Post
    Stargate....Really? A male's reproductive responsibility is done at conception. The female body produces the energy, not only to give birth, but to suckle the infant to the age where it is able to digest normal nourishment, maybe I am missing something.
    This does not support the statement that "the female gender is far more important, in the big picture, of survival of any mammalian species."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by keeseguy View Post
    Stargate....Really? A male's reproductive responsibility is done at conception. The female body produces the energy, not only to give birth, but to suckle the infant to the age where it is able to digest normal nourishment, maybe I am missing something.
    This does not support the statement that "the female gender is far more important, in the big picture, of survival of any mammalian species."
    We know there have been arguments of belief that sex is for reproduction and should be sacred for spilling the seed is wrong,you need sperm and egg to make a child so if spilling the seed is seen as sinful or a crime of nature then what about all the females eggs that get wasted through menstruation? Are we supposed to keep giving birth/ reproducing non stop?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by keeseguy View Post
    Stargate....Really? A male's reproductive responsibility is done at conception. The female body produces the energy, not only to give birth, but to suckle the infant to the age where it is able to digest normal nourishment, maybe I am missing something.
    I think you are missing a lot. The female makes the egg, it is fertilized by the sperm, the energy for reproduction the same, however, the evolutionary procedure is done in the females body. It is not just what the mother produces that makes the baby suck the breast and drink the milk, it is the process of both parent that makes life. There is no special importance in the male and female production.
    That thing I said earlier. Forget it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by keeseguy View Post
    Stargate....Really? A male's reproductive responsibility is done at conception. The female body produces the energy, not only to give birth, but to suckle the infant to the age where it is able to digest normal nourishment, maybe I am missing something.
    This does not support the statement that "the female gender is far more important, in the big picture, of survival of any mammalian species."
    We know there have been arguments of belief that sex is for reproduction and should be sacred for spilling the seed is wrong,you need sperm and egg to make a child so if spilling the seed is seen as sinful or a crime of nature then what about all the females eggs that get wasted through menstruation? Are we supposed to keep giving birth/ reproducing non stop?
    You seem to have a way of changing the subject. No one was talking about spilling seed or wasting eggs. This has nothing to do with survival of a mammalian species.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by keeseguy View Post
    Stargate....Really? A male's reproductive responsibility is done at conception. The female body produces the energy, not only to give birth, but to suckle the infant to the age where it is able to digest normal nourishment, maybe I am missing something.
    This does not support the statement that "the female gender is far more important, in the big picture, of survival of any mammalian species."
    We know there have been arguments of belief that sex is for reproduction and should be sacred for spilling the seed is wrong,you need sperm and egg to make a child so if spilling the seed is seen as sinful or a crime of nature then what about all the females eggs that get wasted through menstruation? Are we supposed to keep giving birth/ reproducing non stop?
    I get your point Hannah. I think we have to revisit a lot of things we learnt some time ago, some of it is no longer necessary to hold on to.
    A lot of emphasis is placed on division in terms of gender and not on value. The way I see it, male is female, and female is male. My sperm together with the female egg produces both male and female beings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Sorry not so obvious to me, can you explain?
    For the same reason you can't usually hunt does. One male can mate with multiple females, but a female can only carry so many young at a time.
    Matter of tastes;
    for my pallet:
    Does taste better, especially if, like me, you like to eat raw venison.
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    Women and men are not different enough genetically to apply any significant difference in intellect. Id bet if there even was one - it would be less than 0.5%.

    The reason men has contributed more (if that is the case) would be 100% due to cultural and hieracic (spelling?) oppression and denial of the self-realization of women.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    I understand what lies behind the "females are less disposable" comment, but that is not really elevant to humans in today's world. Since early death rates are so low, we do not need to maximise birth rates any more. In fact, keeping birth rates relatively low (2.1 children per woman on average) is eminently desirable.

    Yeah. This is probably a lot of what is driving feminism. Women are starting to realize that reproduction won't automatically earn them respect in the modern world, and so they're looking for other avenues. Generally the avenues that previously had only been open to men, but which also had seemed less interesting before when "home maker"/"mother" was still a role that got plenty of respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Hey, don't insult Stargate here guys, he's asking a sincere question here. If a male dies, the survivability of the tribe is not very effected because they can reproduce at the same level. If a woman dies, that is one less person who can create more young for the tribe.

    Yes, it is less relevant in the modern world. Monogamy reinforces its irrelevance. But modern conditions don't change the factors that effected our evolution/earlier state in creation.

    Dr. Strangelove plans to use computers to select survivors of nuclear war at a ratio of ten "stimulating" females for every man — Critical Commons
    Probably men would play the bigger role in evolution, then. Because men suffer a higher level of attrition.

    The group that suffers the highest level of attrition is the one that is experiencing the strongest selection. That means they're the ones that the environment is using as its means of communication.


    Quote Originally Posted by precious siraj View Post
    because they are cute , polite and vulnerable.
    The politeness probably hurts their ability to go far in "a man's world".

    You've got to be a little bit pushy in order to get to the front of the pack. And until you're near the front of the pack, you're likely not to get noticed. Which in turn might make women appear to be contributing less, when they don't get noticed.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    I understand what lies behind the "females are less disposable" comment, but that is not really elevant to humans in today's world. Since early death rates are so low, we do not need to maximise birth rates any more. In fact, keeping birth rates relatively low (2.1 children per woman on average) is eminently desirable.

    Yeah. This is probably a lot of what is driving feminism. Women are starting to realize that reproduction won't automatically earn them respect in the modern world, and so they're looking for other avenues. Generally the avenues that previously had only been open to men, but which also had seemed less interesting before when "home maker"/"mother" was still a role that got plenty of respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Hey, don't insult Stargate here guys, he's asking a sincere question here. If a male dies, the survivability of the tribe is not very effected because they can reproduce at the same level. If a woman dies, that is one less person who can create more young for the tribe.

    Yes, it is less relevant in the modern world. Monogamy reinforces its irrelevance. But modern conditions don't change the factors that effected our evolution/earlier state in creation.

    Dr. Strangelove plans to use computers to select survivors of nuclear war at a ratio of ten "stimulating" females for every man — Critical Commons
    Probably men would play the bigger role in evolution, then. Because men suffer a higher level of attrition.

    The group that suffers the highest level of attrition is the one that is experiencing the strongest selection. That means they're the ones that the environment is using as its means of communication.


    Quote Originally Posted by precious siraj View Post
    because they are cute , polite and vulnerable.
    The politeness probably hurts their ability to go far in "a man's world".

    You've got to be a little bit pushy in order to get to the front of the pack. And until you're near the front of the pack, you're likely not to get noticed. Which in turn might make women appear to be contributing less, when they don't get noticed.
    They evolve in different ways. Men would have higher rates of natural selection in so far as surviving combat and wilderness endurance. But women experience child birth, a very dangerous process, which makes up for a lot of it. Also, women have just as much if not more pressure to be as fertile as possible. In archaic social structures, a man is more likely to have multiple partners and thus has more chances for his seed to take. And infertility is equal to or a greater part of the selection process than attrition. After all, being infertile is evolutionarily identical to dying. Though men do have 100% of the responsibility in determining gender. But that doesn't mean a whole lot in the context of this discussion.
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    Umbradiago, you have also incorrectly capitalized the 'W' in 'women', but have given an explanation for it. I accept your joke. To answer your first question, they are not. All versions of the human mind are found among both genders. If those weren't, then we would not be able to exist as a specie. Imagine if all women were mature and bright and all men were immature and dull. These women would not even want to associate with such men let alone have children with them! In your third post on this thread, you imply that you equate intelligence with sympathy. This is a creative observation to explore. Although it is not completely correct in the literal sense, it does carry truth along the line of the fact that geniuses are sensitive to things that average individuals are not. This is one of the reasons why some people have difficulty differentiating between analytical and emotional intelligence, which overlap each other in a few ways. Ox, I can give directions to certain places in my town and read maps as well as you can. You are not adept at reading maps because you're a man, you are adept at reading maps because you have strong visual spatial power, as I do.
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    They evolve in different ways. Men would have higher rates of natural selection in so far as surviving combat and wilderness endurance. But women experience child birth, a very dangerous process, which makes up for a lot of it. Also, women have just as much if not more pressure to be as fertile as possible. In archaic social structures, a man is more likely to have multiple partners and thus has more chances for his seed to take. And infertility is equal to or a greater part of the selection process than attrition. After all, being infertile is evolutionarily identical to dying. Though men do have 100% of the responsibility in determining gender. But that doesn't mean a whole lot in the context of this discussion.
    How can men and women possibly evolve in "different" ways? We all have an X from our mothers, combined with an X or a Y from our fathers. Most importantly, our mothers have one X each from their own parents and our fathers have their own personal combination of X and Y. Some women have a narrow pelvis or other skeletal features common among the women of their father's family. A man may have early onset of male pattern baldness common among his mother's brothers despite his father having a full head of hair into old age.

    As for men having multiple wives. There are plenty of other perfectly adequate extended family or community ways to handle the problem, but it is one way to deal with the fact that many women, at least sometimes, are less able to work during pregnancy or after a birth as well as having a significant death rate from both. It's a way for the women of a family to care for the infants and to get all the food production work done despite one woman's incapacity or death.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    They evolve in different ways. Men would have higher rates of natural selection in so far as surviving combat and wilderness endurance. But women experience child birth, a very dangerous process, which makes up for a lot of it. Also, women have just as much if not more pressure to be as fertile as possible. In archaic social structures, a man is more likely to have multiple partners and thus has more chances for his seed to take. And infertility is equal to or a greater part of the selection process than attrition. After all, being infertile is evolutionarily identical to dying. Though men do have 100% of the responsibility in determining gender. But that doesn't mean a whole lot in the context of this discussion.
    How can men and women possibly evolve in "different" ways? We all have an X from our mothers, combined with an X or a Y from our fathers. Most importantly, our mothers have one X each from their own parents and our fathers have their own personal combination of X and Y. Some women have a narrow pelvis or other skeletal features common among the women of their father's family. A man may have early onset of male pattern baldness common among his mother's brothers despite his father having a full head of hair into old age.

    As for men having multiple wives. There are plenty of other perfectly adequate extended family or community ways to handle the problem, but it is one way to deal with the fact that many women, at least sometimes, are less able to work during pregnancy or after a birth as well as having a significant death rate from both. It's a way for the women of a family to care for the infants and to get all the food production work done despite one woman's incapacity or death.
    I meant natural selection would apply to men and women differently in the social structure we were discussing. What I was saying makes sense in context, I think. He indicated that men would bear the greater brunt of adapting because they would be killed off more often. I said that wasn't true, they would both be effected by evolution differently. The man would be more likely to engage in combat and die in the wilderness but the woman is more likely to die in child birth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    The dumbest thing that women do is to use perfume. They don't seem to realize that the most attractive smell for a man is the scent of a woman.
    I've done long runs with my wife. I prefer her freshly showered....
    You may need to check yourself to see if you are still a man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    They evolve in different ways. Men would have higher rates of natural selection in so far as surviving combat and wilderness endurance. But women experience child birth, a very dangerous process, which makes up for a lot of it. Also, women have just as much if not more pressure to be as fertile as possible. In archaic social structures, a man is more likely to have multiple partners and thus has more chances for his seed to take. And infertility is equal to or a greater part of the selection process than attrition. After all, being infertile is evolutionarily identical to dying. Though men do have 100% of the responsibility in determining gender. But that doesn't mean a whole lot in the context of this discussion.
    How can men and women possibly evolve in "different" ways? We all have an X from our mothers, combined with an X or a Y from our fathers. Most importantly, our mothers have one X each from their own parents and our fathers have their own personal combination of X and Y. Some women have a narrow pelvis or other skeletal features common among the women of their father's family. A man may have early onset of male pattern baldness common among his mother's brothers despite his father having a full head of hair into old age.

    As for men having multiple wives. There are plenty of other perfectly adequate extended family or community ways to handle the problem, but it is one way to deal with the fact that many women, at least sometimes, are less able to work during pregnancy or after a birth as well as having a significant death rate from both. It's a way for the women of a family to care for the infants and to get all the food production work done despite one woman's incapacity or death.
    Adelady, a question for you. Why do you think, or maybe you know, why there are more women than men? If you follow the logic that it takes a woman over one year to reproduce, it would seem that it is logical to have more women, or not?
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    Adelady, a question for you. Why do you think, or maybe you know, why there are more women than men? If you follow the logic that it takes a woman over one year to reproduce, it would seem that it is logical to have more women, or not?
    When it comes to babies being born, usually there are slightly more boys than girls (in areas where lots of female foetuses aren't routinely aborted). Presumably that's an evolutionary quirk which takes account of fewer boys making it to sexual maturity - a combination of higher rates of genetic problems and dangerous risk taking during childhood and puberty.

    Women and men survive into adulthood at much the same rate. Then women's death rates remain lower through adulthood to old age in advanced industrial societies because of improvements in healthcare, particularly the availability of contraception and antenatal care and their lower levels of risk taking when young. (Think driving, fisticuffs, all that other dangerous stuff young men do that women do a lot less of,) Along with a cavalier approach to workplace safety in many male-dominated industries.

    And there's always war. So long as a country is remote from the actual fighting, more women will survive even a long war, though all bets are off if your country is invaded or you live in the area where the war is conducted.

    Though I can't imagine why we'd have arrangements where more children are born than would be under the usual circumstances. Elephants and whales do quite well with long pregnancies and well spaced reproduction just as we've always done. We're not turtles that just lay eggs and leave them to it.

    Under hunter-gatherer conditions, as well as in agriculture, humans have often starved to death. Remember, one more child when there's food only for the existing four or eight or twelve people in a family means that 5 or 9 or 13 people will starve. Child and family survival rates are about food, shelter and safety as much as they are about birth rates.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Adelady, a question for you. Why do you think, or maybe you know, why there are more women than men? If you follow the logic that it takes a woman over one year to reproduce, it would seem that it is logical to have more women, or not?
    When it comes to babies being born, usually there are slightly more boys than girls (in areas where lots of female foetuses aren't routinely aborted). Presumably that's an evolutionary quirk which takes account of fewer boys making it to sexual maturity - a combination of higher rates of genetic problems and dangerous risk taking during childhood and puberty.

    Women and men survive into adulthood at much the same rate. Then women's death rates remain lower through adulthood to old age in advanced industrial societies because of improvements in healthcare, particularly the availability of contraception and antenatal care and their lower levels of risk taking when young. (Think driving, fisticuffs, all that other dangerous stuff young men do that women do a lot less of,) Along with a cavalier approach to workplace safety in many male-dominated industries.

    And there's always war. So long as a country is remote from the actual fighting, more women will survive even a long war, though all bets are off if your country is invaded or you live in the area where the war is conducted.

    Though I can't imagine why we'd have arrangements where more children are born than would be under the usual circumstances. Elephants and whales do quite well with long pregnancies and well spaced reproduction just as we've always done. We're not turtles that just lay eggs and leave them to it.

    Under hunter-gatherer conditions, as well as in agriculture, humans have often starved to death. Remember, one more child when there's food only for the existing four or eight or twelve people in a family means that 5 or 9 or 13 people will starve. Child and family survival rates are about food, shelter and safety as much as they are about birth rates.
    Could I understand it in a way where you are saying nature does not regulate it as such, but humans manipulations do? Although I am using the word nature in a selective sense.
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