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Thread: When does the law not apply .....

  1. #1 When does the law not apply ..... 
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    Is it ever ok to hit women?


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    If a woman comes at me (or my family) with the intent of doing bodily harm, whether or not she is armed with a weapon, you can bet I will deck her. No different than if a man came after me or my family.


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  4. #3  
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    When I married my first wife, I pointed out that, at that time, the law codes in Illinois allowed me to "beat my wife within reason"
    She counter-offered helping me to not awaken in the morning.

    I knew a woman who beat up an unsatisfactory lover, then threw his naked body out in the snow, drove home, and showered.

    Personally, I've never actually hit a woman, or anyone else either except in self defense, after they hit me first.
    So, i guess it would be ok to hit, as a last resort, a woman in self defense.
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    Is it ok to hit a woman because she innocently got asked by another guy if she would like to dance with him?

    Is it ok to hit a pregnant woman?

    Is it ok for authorities ie police to protect people who do these acts?
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    Nobody should hit anybody. Whether man or woman.

    I would defend myself if a woman hit me, as a man, morality is not overriding basic self-defence.

    Sorry, but women who use the "i'm weak!" to justify attacking people ARE weak. and somebody may say men warrant attacks, er..OK, those are your beliefs, not mine, I don't think people should be attacked but there you go..
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ok to hit a woman because she innocently got asked by another guy if she would like to dance with him?
    IMO, no.
    Is it ok to hit a pregnant woman?
    IMO, never, never, never, never... A man who does this should be put in public stocks...
    Is it ok for authorities ie police to protect people who do these acts?
    er... lolwut? The police should, nay have to, protect all in their jurisdiction without any bias. it's for the courts to decide who is right or wrong or guilty in a given case..
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  8. #7  
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    If a pregnant women physically attacks my family I will knock her out. Same for a pregnant woman that comes after me with a knife. No different than a man attacking my family.
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  9. #8  
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    And?
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    I had a record album(I think by the fuggs) upon whose cover was:
    "She broke my heart so I busted her jaw"

    ..................
    what, exactly, hannah#s are you trying to "get at"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ok to hit a woman because she innocently got asked by another guy if she would like to dance with him?
    You don't know the answer to that question? Really? <shaking my head> .
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    Only in the same situation that would make it okay to hit a man.

    Equality of the sexes, y'all.
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    Bottom line answer in this "thread" is: It's never OK to hit a woman. It's never OK to hit a man. Is it unavoidable sometimes? Yes.
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    Basically, what PumaMan said.

    It's legal to hit a woman in all the same situations where it is legal to hit a man. It's never okay to hit either without just cause.
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    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ok to hit a woman because she innocently got asked by another guy if she would like to dance with him?
    IMO, no.
    Is it ok to hit a pregnant woman?


    IMO, never, never, never, never... A man who does this should be put in public stocks...
    Is it ok for authorities ie police to protect people who do these acts?
    er... lolwut? The police should, nay have to, protect all in their jurisdiction without any bias. it's for the courts to decide who is right or wrong or guilty in a given case..
    What if the poor excuse for a man has friends in high places?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ok to hit a woman because she innocently got asked by another guy if she would like to dance with him?
    You don't know the answer to that question? Really? <shaking my head> .
    Some people actually think that it is ok, or, they think that no accountability is fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    I had a record album(I think by the fuggs) upon whose cover was:
    "She broke my heart so I busted her jaw"

    ..................
    what, exactly, hannah#s are you trying to "get at"?
    Just trying to find what people think is acceptable. What people believe because some believe daft things.

    Oh look, is that a UFO ?
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ok to hit a woman because she innocently got asked by another guy if she would like to dance with him?
    You don't know the answer to that question? Really? <shaking my head> .
    Some people actually think that it is ok, or, they think that no accountability is fine.
    Really? They would hit the woman? You know men like that? Now, I've known guys that would hit the man in that situation, which isn't right either. I've never known a guy that would hit the woman in that case.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    some believe daft things.
    Yep, they sure do.
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    Crap, if she comes after you with a knife it is even ok to shoot her.
    Many times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ok to hit a woman because she innocently got asked by another guy if she would like to dance with him?
    You don't know the answer to that question? Really? <shaking my head> .
    Some people actually think that it is ok, or, they think that no accountability is fine.
    Really? They would hit the woman? You know men like that? Now, I've known guys that would hit the man in that situation, which isn't right either. I've never known a guy that would hit the woman in that case.

    Unfortunately, yes, I do know a man like that and what I find even more disgusting is the lengths that the vile thing will go to, to hide shame. Not only that, but to try and discredit any witness that dares to speak of it, using lies and intimidation tactics.

    They should be locked up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Crap, if she comes after you with a knife it is even ok to shoot her.
    Many times.
    You bet! And what about women in combat roles. We aren't allowed to hit a women if she's an enemy soldier shooting at me? After all, according to the OP, it's the law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    what, exactly, hannah#s are you trying to "get at"?
    OK sculptor, here is the reason for this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Unfortunately, yes, I do know a man like that and what I find even more disgusting is the lengths that the vile thing will go to, to hide shame. Not only that, but to try and discredit any witness that dares to speak of it, using lies and intimidation tactics.

    They should be locked up.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    what, exactly, hannah#s are you trying to "get at"?
    OK sculptor, here is the reason for this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Unfortunately, yes, I do know a man like that and what I find even more disgusting is the lengths that the vile thing will go to, to hide shame. Not only that, but to try and discredit any witness that dares to speak of it, using lies and intimidation tactics.

    They should be locked up.

    I was asked if I knew of anyone like it, so I answered honestly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Crap, if she comes after you with a knife it is even ok to shoot her.
    Many times.
    You bet! And what about women in combat roles. We aren't allowed to hit a women if she's an enemy soldier shooting at me? After all, according to the OP, it's the law.
    Combat is different from hitting because of jealousy or spite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Combat is different from hitting because of jealousy or spite.
    That's not how you framed the opening post. Go back and read your own post:

    Is it ever ok to hit women?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Combat is different from hitting because of jealousy or spite.
    That's not how you framed the opening post. Go back and read your own post:

    Is it ever ok to hit women?
    Which proves what?

    I asked a question, what don't you get?

    I don't like violence towards women, where is your confusion?

    I will go so far as to say, I don't like violence against anyone, wars etc....

    If anyone points a gun or weapon at anyone else regardless of law then you are an asshole!

    There's the bottom line, violence is ok when the law allows it.
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    Conversing with you is like conversing with sarnamluvu. Are you two related?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Conversing with you is like conversing with sarnamluvu. Are you two related?
    Right then..

    My question was 'is it ever ok to hit a woman'?

    People answered and gave reasons but the truth is if you hit someone (even in defence) it is just making things even.

    It is NEVER ok to hit Anyone.

    If you were really paying attention you would have known this.
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post

    If you were really paying attention you would have known this.
    You're the one who can't read. I guess lack of reading skills can be added to your ignorance of science. I said as much several posts up from here.

    Bottom line answer in this "thread" is: It's never OK to hit a woman. It's never OK to hit a man. Is it unavoidable sometimes? Yes.
    How old are you? Because if I'm arguing with a 15 year old then I will quit doing it.
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    Only if you are protecting your family and children.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post

    If you were really paying attention you would have known this.
    You're the one who can't read. I guess lack of reading skills can be added to your ignorance of science. I said as much several posts up from here.

    Bottom line answer in this "thread" is: It's never OK to hit a woman. It's never OK to hit a man. Is it unavoidable sometimes? Yes.
    How old are you? Because if I'm arguing with a 15 year old then I will quit doing it.

    Unavoidable? when? It is never ok you said but then you said it is sometimes. Make your mind up. You are confused. You cant use the word never and use the words sometimes.
    And you insinuate that I'm not making sense?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssk1777 View Post
    Only if you are protecting your family and children.
    It still doesn't make it ok, so to speak, just like it doesn't make it ok for the idiots to put you or your family in that predicament!

    The main point of this post was to determine what people thinks is ok or more to the point how thoroughly people read and how thoroughly they think.

    No harm done. I still love you all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Unavoidable? when?
    Like I and a half dozen other posters said: In self-defense, protecting family, war.
    And you insinuate that I'm not making sense?
    No. I'm not insinuating at all. You don't make sense half the time. Well, you make about as much sense as your friend sarnamluvu. You usually have an ulterior motive in the threads you start. And you don't read well -- even in your own threads.
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    You think I am in collusion with sarnamluvu?

    I'm not associated in any way. I know only of the name on here.
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    The main point of this post was to determine what people thinks is ok or more to the point how thoroughly people read and how thoroughly they think.

    No harm done. I still love you all.
    Really? no harm done?

    Here are a few questions for you? Do you think it is OK to ask a vague question that conceals an underlying theme that the questioner conceals from the audience? Do you think it is OK to use a snide and supercilious tone with persons who might try to determine what lies behind such a question? Do you think it is OK to behave like a child when one is, presumably, an adult? Do you think it is OK to raise the blood pressure of someone who has already had two strokes, by displaying an intransigent determination to be a prat?

    Obviously these are just general questions and in no way relate to any participants in the present thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    The main point of this post was to determine what people thinks is ok or more to the point how thoroughly people read and how thoroughly they think.

    No harm done. I still love you all.
    Really? no harm done?

    Here are a few questions for you? Do you think it is OK to ask a vague question that conceals an underlying theme that the questioner conceals from the audience? Do you think it is OK to use a snide and supercilious tone with persons who might try to determine what lies behind such a question? Do you think it is OK to behave like a child when one is, presumably, an adult? Do you think it is OK to raise the blood pressure of someone who has already had two strokes, by displaying an intransigent determination to be a prat?

    Obviously these are just general questions and in no way relate to any participants in the present thread.
    Has somebody took it personally? Sheesh, don't read the news then.

    Is it ok to lock a thread because you don't like the general direction that it is going in?
    Then you use excuses such as The poster not being 'SAVVY' enough for the debate?

    Do you think it is ok to stifle debate?

    Do you believe in freedom of speech?

    If somebody put the truth in front of you on a plate you would PROBABLY shout LIES.!

    I'm fed up with control freaks on here shaping what they only want to see.
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  39. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Obviously these are just general questions and in no way relate to any participants in the present thread.
    Hannah is still behaving like a spoilt child.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  40. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ever ok to hit women?
    Is it wrong for someone to hit you?
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Obviously these are just general questions and in no way relate to any participants in the present thread.
    Hannah is still behaving like a spoilt child.
    Why don't you exercise some of your talent and answer my questions?

    Oh, that's right some on here don't like answering questions because it might be outside of what they were taught to believe.

    I'll go and find some real knowledgable people because there are too many fakers here.

    Lay off the bullying guys because sites get shut down for that....eventually. Some people on forums aren't always who you think.

    Bye.

    PS - to those of you who have been genuine I say thanks.
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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    If somebody put the truth in front of you on a plate you would PROBABLY shout LIES.!
    ...says the person who doesn't believe that the moon-landing happened or that the Earth is not hollow.

    Physician, heal thyself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    If somebody put the truth in front of you on a plate you would PROBABLY shout LIES.!
    ...says the person who doesn't believe that the moon-landing happened or that the Earth is not hollow.

    Physician, heal thyself.
    Show me proff where I have stated that the moon landings were LIES. Go on...oh you can't. lol

    Hollow earth? I've never had a discussion on that in my life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ever ok to hit women?
    Is it wrong for someone to hit you?
    It depends who you ask.
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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    It is NEVER ok to hit Anyone.
    It is OK when they are OK with it.
    It is OK when you are trying to prevent a greater harm.
    That's about it.
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  46. #45  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ever ok to hit women?
    Is it wrong for someone to hit you?
    It depends who you ask.
    I asked YOU.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ok to lock a thread because you don't like the general direction that it is going in?
    Of course it is. If the direction is towards promotion of racism, or advocating pedophilia, or is a repeat attempt by a crank to assert, without evidence, that "Einstein was wrong", then the thread needs to be shut down. As moderators we do that reluctantly and often long after several regular forum members feel we should have.

    And the "you" who dislikes these directions is not the individual moderator, but the consensus of the mod/admin team, developed over time, often through dealing with problem individuals and delicate situations.

    Would you prefer anarchy?

    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Do you think it is ok to stifle debate?
    If I valued your opinion I would be offended.

    1. I explained to you on another thread that my actions had been to encourage debate not to stifle it. If you are such an advocate of debate why have you run away from that thread and failed to respond to my points? Perhaps you only value debate when it is going your way?

    2.Tell me, have I, or any other moderator prevented you from saying what you wish on this forum? You have been given free access to create threads, contribute to other threads, and thus far no one has deleted one of your posts, or told you to stop posting. And for being granted this freedom your response is to behave like a spoiled child.

    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Do you believe in freedom of speech?
    Certainly, but you do realise that this is a private forum where there is no right to freedom of speech. The owner of the forum provides this facility to us, you and me and the other members, at his discretion.

    Do you think it is acceptable to walk into a neighbours house and criticise their coooking and their curtains? You certainly seem to think you have the right to say what you want here. You don't, yet you are allowed to do so. Not by right, but by the discretion of the owner.


    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    If somebody put the truth in front of you on a plate you would PROBABLY shout LIES.!
    Do you have a lot of friends?

    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    I'm fed up with control freaks on here shaping what they only want to see.
    What control have we exercised over you? Do tell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Show me proff where I have stated that the moon landings were LIES. Go on...oh you can't. lol
    You've been accused of not believing in the moon-landings several times and yet you cannot bring yourself to admit to it - but you also can't deny it either.
    Refusal to deny is admission of guilt.

    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Hollow earth? I've never had a discussion on that in my life.
    Ah yes - my mistake.
    I was thinking of a different nut-job.
    My apologies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Thread: When does the law not apply...
    Is it ever ok to hit women?
    Short answer:

    " [.....] necessity knows no law." ~ St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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  50. #49 Is it OK to hit a woman 
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    Short Answer - No, it's not OK to hit anyone. People resort to hitting either, when they become frustrated with their lack of success in communicating with another person, or they feel they have been disrespected. Bottom line, learn to communicate and you reduce the need to strike someone.
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  51. #50  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Is it ever ok to hit women?
    Interesting question, the short answer is yes, but that's based entirely on the notion that anything maybe deemed ok if the circumstances justified it, and really you can come up with a set circumstances to justify pretty much anything.

    However in practice the realities are far more complex for this question, in general it is certainly still socially unacceptable for men to hit women that is for certain, this doesn't mean that if a women was beating up a man he shouldn't defend himself and hit her back.

    The very notion of men not hitting women is very much still routed in a code of chivalry that expects men to behave as gentlemen and protect women, even today in an age of equallity between the sexes this notion is still extremely pervasive in the up bringing of most children.

    It was far more normal for men to beat the wives decades or even centuries ago and this unfortunately has not entirely gone away, otherwise there would be no need for womens refuges, but the truth is most men would be appauled at the thought of men hitting women, so certainly at least in this context it is most definately NOT ever ok to hit women.

    Obviously the notion of women hitting other women is thought of and treated very differently than that of men hitting women.

    Also there is a more modern concept, certainly more public awareness now than in years gone bye, of violent women, certainly not the type of women that a notion of chivalry would suggest need protecting from men, quite often this can lead to fighting with men. Now again this is also percieved differently in our modern society than the more simplistic notion of a man hitting a women. Often society tends not differentiate over this kind of violence with regard to gender, certainly not the moral outrage a man hitting a women might normally provoke, instead perhaps just maintaining equal levels of distain.
    Last edited by Ascended; March 16th, 2014 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Missed words
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  52. #51  
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    Considering that this forum tends to be very liberal on most issues, I was expecting the responses to this to be a whole bunch of "NO! A real man does not ever, EVER hit a woman!". I am glad to be proven wrong.
    My answer is that whether you have the right to hit somebody should not at all be based on the gender of you or the person you are hitting. It is only okay to hit somebody if they hit you first or are provoking danger.
    Let a and b be genders of the set {F, M} and a-b means a member of gender a hitting a member of gender b. M-M and F-F are sometimes okay, sometimes wrong, F-M is treated like comedy, and M-F is treated like a crime. The sad thing is I'm not even exaggerating.
    There is definitely an unfair double standard and I would like to see it significantly lessen as soon as possible.
    "But men are stronger than women! A woman's hit to a man is like a twig, a man's hit to a woman.... ugh! That's NOT fair! What we have with this, IS fair!" - Alenso (made-up name)
    *massive facepalm* Alenso, do you have any idea how many times I've hard and refuted this excuse?. No, the current system is not fair. And I do not advocate that men should be allowed to hit women; I advocate that NOBODY is allowed to hit ANYBODY, with exceptions already mentioned. If you can't handle getting hit back, you shouldn't have hit the person to being with.
    And what's your opinion on stronger men hitting weaker men, or any person hitting a person much weaker than them? I guess strength only matters if the stronger person is male and the weaker person is female? What if the woman was stronger than the male? Now what's your excuse for your double standard?
    And if we're going to treat this like every man is stronger than every woman, then what's wrong with not allowing women into the military? They're generally weaker than men.
    "But not all women are weaker than all men. Some are fit to the military. You shouldn't generalize. Obama said women can do everything men can do, and in high heels!"
    Great, now try applying that to the first thing you said.
    Do these people have any idea how stupid they sound?
    I personally think the real reason for the double standard is what Ascended said. It's a form of chivalry that still exists today.
    ADD: Did I just make an angry rage at a non-existent person?
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    I have been struck by women. I have never struck back. Call me old-fashioned, but I have never had to ask myself this question. A man just does not do it unless there is a very good reason. I've never had one. Cheating ? not sufficient. Lying ? nope. Attempted manslaughter, no, not if you can escape danger. Now, if I ever meet OJ Simpson, I'll split his lip. Seriously; because of his acquittal many, many men went to jail for doing nothing more than arguing.
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    It is always ok to hit a woman. A woman has no right to assert anything: not her primacy, not sexual refusal, not educational desire, not a right to drive, go to the store, etc. In fact, a woman is wholly owned by her a) father, b) brother, c) husband, d) other. If she is beat, struck or even murdered, raped, or sold, courts and tribal councils uphold these decisions.

    Sadly, this is the ethical relatively in a large swath of the world. These standards are reinforced by both religion and tribal customs. When we discuss such a topic, my only point is referencing the real context of the question- numerous women are seriously abused daily.

    I am, of course, in line with the other gentleman here who would prefer to never strike a woman. But I have met women- correction, females- who needed to be beat, not just hit. I concur with anticorncob28. Gender should not the question.
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  55. #54  
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    In most normal situations no.

    Here's a (outlandishly farfetched) situation:

    You are a fire fighter in a burning building about to collapse, you know the lady in the building and she has a son named Alex,
    You saw Alex climb out of the building from his bedroom window, you get to the lady inside the burning inferno and shes pointing at the fire blocking her son's bedroom direction and screaming out of her mind that
    her son Alex is in his room (true from her perspective because shes missing information), but then part of the ceiling collapses and with smoke and roaring flames drowning any possibility for conversation and shes hysterical and screaming, and from your firefighter experience you judge that the building will collapse within 15-20 seconds and you cant make it out with her unless shes knocked out because she would resist being dragged out and would die, so in your best judgment, either you kock her out or she dies.
    Would it be ok to hit her?
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    ^Hmm... And here's the rub with any complex scenario. In this case the fireperson is protected like a linebacker under the SCBA and other gear, and to be there in the first place must be exceptionally physically fit. If the fireperson is physically capable of incapacitating a person with a single blow, then that fireperson should be physically able to extract that same person even if struggling.
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  57. #56  
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    If the fireperson is physically capable of incapacitating a person with a single blow, then that fireperson should be physically able to extract that same person even if struggling.
    not necessarily so, and lets pretend for argument's sake that its not possible and that you get a choice between hitting and saving the person's life.

    please, I wouldnt want someone say "yeah, but the structural integrity... " "...and because of the smoke..." "...and since the lady and the fireman knew sign language he could have used sign language and..." just take the scenario as is or ignore it and pretend the choice is hitting or saving the life.


    ( This reminds me of Bruce Lee, as a teacher character in a movie, saying something like ~if someone points at the moon with his finger and you focus on the finger that's pointing, you will miss the moon/what the finger is intending to show you~ )
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Conversing with you is like conversing with sarnamluvu. Are you two related?
    Right then..

    My question was 'is it ever ok to hit a woman'?

    People answered and gave reasons but the truth is if you hit someone (even in defence) it is just making things even.

    It is NEVER ok to hit Anyone.

    If you were really paying attention you would have known this.
    Why? Because some weird moral system says so?

    Why are you being so self-righteous and boistrous? lol..
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