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Thread: Body Language

  1. #1 Body Language 
    Forum Freshman BobTheIgnorant's Avatar
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    I have been reading up on what body language is and the habits people make in certain circumstances. Though I have yet to find any criticism of body language though, and I find that a little weird. Considering even some of the weirdest idea's have criticism and yet I have not found any on body language. Further more there aren't any reasons given for the things that are taught. Very much of what is is definitions and terms.

    Then again I could be under a rock and everyone is enjoying the sun. So if anyone can point me in the direction or can tell me anything that would help me I would very much appreciate it.


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    What exactly are you leading up to? I'm hoping your moniker doesn't "say it all". jocular


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    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    Here's some body language:

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    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

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    What Is "out-living"? Is that a body-;language code we have yet to decipher?
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    In theatre, we study body language every day in people. How they react, by age, situation, not just facially but physically, as in how they stand, how they walk, how they react to humor.... I can tell a person from 100 yards away by how they stand, move, gesture. We all have body language!
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    And how long Is that a fact or even a memory?
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    Who would want to claim fame to what you just said?
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    If I may, you are a part of something as close or as distant as your eye can see? Are you exercising that? Or are you turning a blind eye?
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    Quote Originally Posted by beingNailed View Post
    And how long Is that a fact or even a memory?
    I don't understand your question. Please clarify and for the following ones also.....Mahalo
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    Quote Originally Posted by beingNailed View Post
    Who would want to claim fame to what you just said?
    I would.
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    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beingNailed View Post
    What Is "out-living"? Is that a body-;language code we have yet to decipher?
    Your sentences do not make much sense.
    I suspect it is because English is not your first language.
    Perhaps you could use Google Translate?
    It might be better than your own translations.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
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    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by beingNailed View Post
    What Is "out-living"? Is that a body-;language code we have yet to decipher?
    Your sentences do not make much sense.
    I suspect it is because English is not your first language.
    Perhaps you could use Google Translate?
    It might be better than your own translations.
    I did not pick that up Red Panda!! Sorry to be so dense!
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    OK, USING "BODY LANGUAGE"........

    Body language: stating one's reference in a certain situation they have either deemed well or badly for their own objective.

    .....you know....stating a reference.......

    Have you people any idea what an objective could be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by beingNailed View Post
    OK, USING "BODY LANGUAGE"........

    Body language: stating one's reference in a certain situation they have either deemed well or badly for their own objective.

    .....you know....stating a reference.......

    Have you people any idea what an objective could be?
    You are still not making any sense to anybody who speaks English. Either learn English, or stop posting nonsense on this forum.
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    Lets define nonsense?
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    I'm sure defining "nonsense" will make "better sense"?
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    Harold, what is "nonsense"?
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    Can someone please ban this troll?
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    ...."objective", "subjective"?

    My point is, "you". "You".
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    Before you wave a ban wave, point is what directly on your part?
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    Have you looked at the Initial question?
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    I'm not headed anywhere, Mr Harold.

    Can you prove I'm headed anywhere in your mind, you're thinking?
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    If you can, man, wow, what a puppet show this is.
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    Now, get real, allow users to use this forum....bla bla bla.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    Can someone please ban this troll?

    get a life
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    Has anyone got an idea of expression of the subject posted?
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    Don't let the general public think you have profiled peopled right?

    Why not?

    Wow?

    No, go for it.

    Harold, what's you're point?
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    Learn English?

    My aim in life will be you learning 3rd world, however you think that works. Get a life.
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  30. #29  
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    Language is independent of body. Everything in this universe is talking to us. Even space.
    I have not understood the OP properly. What is he saying?
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  31. #30  
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    Ok let's get what is an interesting thread back on track here.

    The actual techniques and formal understanding of defining body language is now called kinesics, a name devised by the American anthropologist Ray Birdwhistell whose work, and especially his 1952 study, gives us much of our modern day understanding of the techniques in this field.

    Today kinesics is widely understood and used in a number of ways, some of the most common applications being in interview situations.

    It's generally perceived as being useful in helping interviewers ascertain the veracity of answers being given since autonomic body movements can give a more truthful response in many situations.

    But the use kinesics is not entirely without criticism, when being used by law enforcement officers or military personel critics have suggested that stress can and often does lead to false confessions or information being interpreted.

    But in terms of human beings actually having body language, this actually being able to communicate thoughts and feelings through involuntary movements there is certainly not much criticism, this is understandable though because it would however be akin to criticising gravity, since we are well aware of this type of communication and in fact each and everyone of us uses it on a daily basis for our interactions with each other. Some studies even place the level of such non verbal communication during in an in person conversation at 60+% of the total amount of information being communicated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobTheIgnorant View Post
    I have been reading up on what body language is and the habits people make in certain circumstances. Though I have yet to find any criticism of body language though, and I find that a little weird. Considering even some of the weirdest idea's have criticism and yet I have not found any on body language. Further more there aren't any reasons given for the things that are taught. Very much of what is is definitions and terms.

    Then again I could be under a rock and everyone is enjoying the sun. So if anyone can point me in the direction or can tell me anything that would help me I would very much appreciate it.
    Body language is a no no on this Scientific Forum. Even a light discussion of the language gets tossed into the trash Can. Interesting body language from the first woman to lead a prayer for the mormon
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    To the OP, reading a person's body language can quicken our understanding of the person's feelings, but we should take care to confirm those understandings and not to jump to conclusions.



    We should also understand cultural differences in body language so as to properly convey the intended message.

    Here are American politicians McCain and Obama sitting together, and the body language of theirs suggests togetherness and happiness, which is what their faces suggest, and probably their words. Their "outer" legs are crossed over their "inner" legs, and they could even play "footsie" if they wanted to. This is a common western style of sitting "together".



    In fact, I would go as far as saying that — especially compared to McCain — Obama's open relaxed smile, his unbuttoned coat and tie askew, and his slight lean toward McCain, that Obama seems much more comfortable and relaxed. McCain seems more formal or even guarded or uptight.

    On the other hand (almost literally), below with Crown Prince Sheikh An-Nubayan, the US Defense Secretary Robert Gates employs the non-insulting knee-crossing convention in the Arabic/Muslim world — the "inner" leg over the "outer" leg. To Arabs/Muslims, the shoe, specifically the bottom of the shoe is considered dirty and rude because it's the one part of a person that touches the ground, especially if you happen to step in something disgusting (think of something worse than bubblegum). This is why the prince simply keeps his feet flat on the floor.

    To cross his legs the other way (as shown above) would be like waving his [dirty] shoe under the sheikh's nose or — heaven forbid — show him the bottom of it! If you sat there with Gates, think of it like him constantly drawing your attention to something in the document on the table in front of him using his middle finger ... awkward, uncomfortable ... except much more so.



    Remember the Iraqi's removing their shoes and using them to hit the fallen statue of Saddam Hussein, or the Iraqi photographer throwing his shoe at President Bush? They weren't just convenient objects to hit with or to throw; using shoes expresses great insult in the Arabic/Muslim world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Ok let's get what is an interesting thread back on track here.

    The actual techniques and formal understanding of defining body language is now called kinesics, a name devised by the American anthropologist Ray Birdwhistell whose work, and especially his 1952 study, gives us much of our modern day understanding of the techniques in this field.

    Today kinesics is widely understood and used in a number of ways, some of the most common applications being in interview situations.

    It's generally perceived as being useful in helping interviewers ascertain the veracity of answers being given since autonomic body movements can give a more truthful response in many situations.

    But the use kinesics is not entirely without criticism, when being used by law enforcement officers or military personel critics have suggested that stress can and often does lead to false confessions or information being interpreted.

    But in terms of human beings actually having body language, this actually being able to communicate thoughts and feelings through involuntary movements there is certainly not much criticism, this is understandable though because it would however be akin to criticising gravity, since we are well aware of this type of communication and in fact each and everyone of us uses it on a daily basis for our interactions with each other. Some studies even place the level of such non verbal communication during in an in person conversation at 60+% of the total amount of information being communicated.
    Interesting, I sometimes think there are two truths to our communicating with each other. One the truth of oral language, and the truth of body language. It seems to me there can be as much as a 180 degree difference in the level of truth between body movement of the outer sound, and body movement to the inner sound. One of the noticeable factor of body language is it moves the body in the flow of the language and the meaning. The body can be reacting to one stimuli from outer voice, or another stimuli from inner voice. We seem to think the inner voice triggers the real response to the truth, and automatically position the body to conform to the thought. I hope I am making sense, if not I will try to explain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Ok let's get what is an interesting thread back on track here.

    The actual techniques and formal understanding of defining body language is now called kinesics, a name devised by the American anthropologist Ray Birdwhistell whose work, and especially his 1952 study, gives us much of our modern day understanding of the techniques in this field.

    Today kinesics is widely understood and used in a number of ways, some of the most common applications being in interview situations.

    It's generally perceived as being useful in helping interviewers ascertain the veracity of answers being given since autonomic body movements can give a more truthful response in many situations.

    But the use kinesics is not entirely without criticism, when being used by law enforcement officers or military personel critics have suggested that stress can and often does lead to false confessions or information being interpreted.

    But in terms of human beings actually having body language, this actually being able to communicate thoughts and feelings through involuntary movements there is certainly not much criticism, this is understandable though because it would however be akin to criticising gravity, since we are well aware of this type of communication and in fact each and everyone of us uses it on a daily basis for our interactions with each other. Some studies even place the level of such non verbal communication during in an in person conversation at 60+% of the total amount of information being communicated.
    Interesting, I sometimes think there are two truths to our communicating with each other. One the truth of oral language, and the truth of body language. It seems to me there can be as much as a 180 degree difference in the level of truth between body movement of the outer sound, and body movement to the inner sound. One of the noticeable factor of body language is it moves the body in the flow of the language and the meaning. The body can be reacting to one stimuli from outer voice, or another stimuli from inner voice. We seem to think the inner voice triggers the real response to the truth, and automatically position the body to conform to the thought. I hope I am making sense, if not I will try to explain.
    Yes I think I'm understanding you correctly, autonomic responses (these are subconscious movements over which we normally have little to no control) also respond to external stimuli, as is such the basic principle of many lie detectors, however this may be very different than the responses we may consciously choose to display or indeed the words of a message we choose to convey. When these two elements are in sync it can be very suggestive of honesty and truth, when they are differing wildly it can indeed suggest the opposite.

    This being said even when a persons intentions maybe to convey no message or specific information the bodies own movements are still displaying an entire story just waiting to be read, a good example of this can be seen with professional poker players playing with amateurs, the professionals are usually far more able to read the amateurs, than the amateurs are able to prevent themselves communicating their thoughts through their body language.
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    riginally Posted by Ascended
    This being said even when a persons intentions maybe to convey no message or specific information the bodies own movements are still displaying an entire story just waiting to be read,


    This is true when you are looking at something or someone, but how does the body react and poster itself when you are not looking at someone? Is body language based on the fact that some one has to be there to read the language? Have you ever observed your own body language?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    riginally Posted by Ascended
    This being said even when a persons intentions maybe to convey no message or specific information the bodies own movements are still displaying an entire story just waiting to be read,
    This is true when you are looking at something or someone, but how does the body react and poster itself when you are not looking at someone? Is body language based on the fact that some one has to be there to read the language? Have you ever observed your own body language?
    That is an interesting question and I'll explain why in a moment but the short answer is no.

    Ok everything that is affecting and also our thoughts & current state of mind is constantly being displayed in our body language, just as if someone were standing right in front of you giving a running commentary using vivid discriptive language, much of this display can and so often is interpreted subconsciously by observers, but the point is it happens where a person is being observed or not.

    Now the interesting part here though is how subconscious interactions may take place between people observing or being observed, as I stated previously we are constantly giving out non verbal signals through movements and facial expressions etc....., what is curious is the degree to which these are being influced when a person becomes aware they are being observed.

    If we are to assume some of the studies into this field are indeed correct and 60% of communication is taking place non verbally we can also probably work on the basis that much of this communication is being interpreted on a non conscious level and the results being filtered back into reciprocal non verbal communication signals.

    This may give us some insight into why at times we may feel uneasy or uncomfortable around people we are not able to communicate with directly(consciously), as we may be aware something is taking place but not what, which can lead to a sense of uncertainty and rising tention, often this can be especially noticable between men and women similar enough in age to be potential mates.
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    Actually perhaps a better example here would be people together in a lift/elevator, 2 or more doesn't really matter how many, being able to see each other and also being aware they are also being observed, yet nobody in the lift is actually speaking. Quite often this is a very common situation and most people may experience at least a small sense of anxiety that is reflected in their body language and then mirrored in faces and expressions of others, a sense of collective unease then being both read and communicated onwards by everyone in the lift.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Actually perhaps a better example here would be people together in a lift/elevator, 2 or more doesn't really matter how many, being able to see each other and also being aware they are also being observed, yet nobody in the lift is actually speaking. Quite often this is a very common situation and most people may experience at least a small sense of anxiety that is reflected in their body language and then mirrored in faces and expressions of others, a sense of collective unease then being both read and communicated onwards by everyone in the lift.
    How does the observer interprets the body massage relayed by the observed? What to is to say the message is read correctly by the observer, and is it influenced by culture? Is body language more true and reliable because the observed is not conscious of the body reaction to external stimuli?

    Do you trust the lie detector test completely? how can we define if the questions asked are received in the same context as the aim of the question? The question that I find interesting is, how do we know when the lie detector machine is not correct, I am sure there must be cases when it is not correct.

    I seem to notice a more open dialog, in terms of body language between the opposite sexes. You know when two people like each other and are trying very hard to conceal the truth out of fear of rejection, have you notice that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post

    How does the observer interprets the body massage relayed by the observed? What to is to say the message is read correctly by the observer, and is it influenced by culture? Is body language more true and reliable because the observed is not conscious of the body reaction to external stimuli?
    All interesting questions, the answer is that in some situations it's possible to come to a conclussion about some of these, I would suggest though the accuracy is up for debate because whilst sometimes we may get it right this is not always guaranteed. Take for example situations of danger, it may be possible with a group of people to watch the sense of alertness being transferred non verbally person to person. This is observed from one persons body language, especially facial expressions, and then mirrored in the body laguage of that of observer which is then observed by the next person, since stimuli such as danger or fear produce the most extreme reactions these are perhaps easier observe.

    There are certain things like fear that seem rather instictual in the way they're understood, but for other thoughts or emotions there is no guarantee they are being understood correctly, often we can misinterpret the signals given out by others, perhaps even more so when trying to comprehend them on a conscious level. This is perhaps somewhat explainable though given that we don't all react in the same way to situations, it's quite possible to be spot on with certain things and way off base with others. The whole concept of communication though is pretty much based on trying to find that commonality where two or more people are all on the same page so as to speak, it's about them being sure they are thinking that same thing now obviously this can seem easier with words, but intepretting body language correctly is pretty much the same, it requires find that same synchronization of understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Do you trust the lie detector test completely? how can we define if the questions asked are received in the same context as the aim of the question? The question that I find interesting is, how do we know when the lie detector machine is not correct, I am sure there must be cases when it is not correct.
    No, like with anything that is understood well enough it can be defeated. Lie detectors use control questions to determine the difference in involuntary responses between truth and lies, a person can easily be trained to imagine them selves being asked a question to which the actual answer they give would be truthful, pretty much rendering the lie detector useless. Also for untrained people in stressful situations any answer they may give where truthful or not may be picked up by the detector as lie, the nature of the question can have a larger baring on the detectors result than the actual veracity of the persons answer, again making the lie detectors results unreliable, this is why in most cases lie detectors arn't considered to be of a suitably high enough standard of accuracy to be used in court trials.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I seem to notice a more open dialog, in terms of body language between the opposite sexes. You know when two people like each other and are trying very hard to conceal the truth out of fear of rejection, have you notice that?
    This may have something to do with our primal instincts here, there's this whole element of competition taking place between males on the one level, yes this can and is over ridden by interlect but obviously verbal communication is useful to establish that someone is not a threat. When it comes to men and women if they could potentially be mates, this genrally means within a particular age range and not injured, then subconsiously they can perceive each other as potential mates, again verbal conscious communication can quickly determine this one way or another, for example if one or both of the people are married. When it comes to men and women of wildy differing ages the type of tension caused by the previous examples just doesn't seem to exist, they are perceived as neither threat nor rival and arn't perceived as a potential mate, thus this could explain why people may feel more comfortable in this situation if they are unable to use verbal cumminacation for any particular reason.
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    Many "body languages" or impossible to NOT get.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Many "body languages" or impossible to NOT get.
    This is precisely the question, you know you are right in your interpretation, but are you sure from the fact that you know what this person is thinking or are you sure from something you cannot define? Suppose you were defining the body language from someone from another culture, would the interpretation be correct form an observer perspective?
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    Ascended, you mention fear, or it could be emotions that are spontaneous, like someone you have not seen for a long time. This person could have done you something in the past good or bad. The body language that is associated with seeing this person again, seems to go back to long term memory and alters the body movement. As I go through this discussion with you, I am finding lots of angles I have never looked at. I am now beginning to see that this thing we call body language is very deep and covers so much of our effort to communicate.

    I have some little apprehensions floating around in my mind when we use electronics devices to solve human problems such as emotions and truth values. My reason is that I used to make up transistors to suite some project I was experimenting on. I noticed most of the transistors I found for my projects were found on the value of defects. I was able to use the border crossing breakdown phenomenon of semi conductors by inducing over voltage to the borders and pick out the ones I could use for my project. It was interesting how much at times I was using very tight measurements to reach a specific result. As you look at the tolerances of the different types of semiconductors used in some electronic devices, I have always questioned the validity of the result in terms of the ever changing nature of the human body.

    I am sure when I am frightened the resistance of my body changes, maybe in some parts more than others, but can I rely on the results in some cases to be accurate. I am sure when calibrating equipment of this type like lie detectors would have to be based on control questions of a specific type. Where I question the validity is, are these control questions the same for everyone when I know body language is unique to every one? Can we use body language to achieve accuracy of truth.
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    I can often tell what one is thinking from body language. Even if I don't know them well. Their eye movements, the way they stand, walk, anything. Can I read their minds? Nope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I can often tell what one is thinking from body language. Even if I don't know them well. Their eye movements, the way they stand, walk, anything. Can I read their minds? Nope.
    What do you think you are reading if you can tell what they are thinking? Are you measuring their eye movement to yours, or what do you take to be your reference point?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I am sure when calibrating equipment of this type like lie detectors would have to be based on control questions of a specific type. Where I question the validity is, are these control questions the same for everyone when I know body language is unique to every one? Can we use body language to achieve accuracy of truth.
    WTF does body language have to do with lie detectors?
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    pugnacious duck

    You could have keyboarded in

    "Please explain the connection between body language and lie detectors".

    But, you didn't.
    ergo:
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Of which, you seem to be quite proud.
    Kinda like being proud of an enormous pimple on your forehead?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    pugnacious duck
    You could have keyboarded in
    "Please explain the connection between body language and lie detectors".
    I accidentally read your post.
    Just this once I'll reply: Stargate is notoriously incapable of explanation. (Or consistently unwilling to do so).
    Last edited by Dywyddyr; December 11th, 2013 at 11:40 AM.
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    it's cool dad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I am sure when calibrating equipment of this type like lie detectors would have to be based on control questions of a specific type. Where I question the validity is, are these control questions the same for everyone when I know body language is unique to every one? Can we use body language to achieve accuracy of truth.
    WTF does body language have to do with lie detectors?
    Please read the whole thread so you can understand what the jest of the discussion is about, rather than jumping in and looking silly because you want to rant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I am sure when calibrating equipment of this type like lie detectors would have to be based on control questions of a specific type. Where I question the validity is, are these control questions the same for everyone when I know body language is unique to every one? Can we use body language to achieve accuracy of truth.
    WTF does body language have to do with lie detectors?
    Please read the whole thread so you can understand what the jest of the discussion is about, rather than jumping in and looking silly because you want to rant.
    please stop talking bollocks.
    You made a specific and direct inference.
    I'll ask again: WTF does body language have to do with lie detectors?
    Control questions calibrate a lie detector. Lie detectors DO NOT reference body language.
    Last edited by Dywyddyr; December 11th, 2013 at 03:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I am sure when calibrating equipment of this type like lie detectors would have to be based on control questions of a specific type. Where I question the validity is, are these control questions the same for everyone when I know body language is unique to every one? Can we use body language to achieve accuracy of truth.
    WTF does body language have to do with lie detectors?
    Please read the whole thread so you can understand what the jest of the discussion is about, rather than jumping in and looking silly because you want to rant.
    please stop talking bolocks.
    You made a specific and direct inference.
    I'll ask again: WTF does body language have to do with lie detectors?
    Control questions calibrate a lie detector. Lie detectors DO NOT reference body language.
    Read from #33 to #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Read from #33 to #39
    Not one of those posts justifies your unwarranted conflation of body language and lie detector tests, nor explains why you should think that's the case.
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    I think you'll find that reading body language, such as in the use of kinesics, is often used to make assements about the truth of answers being given. Such techniques are often used as a less direct alternative to the traditional concept of a lie detector, however both methods can suffer from a similar flaw in that they can both be fooled by training or manipulation of the bodies responses to the questions and stimuli. Since understanding and reading of body language to make an assessment about truth, as used by many interviewers and by law enforcement & military investigators can and often is now being used far more frequently than lie detectors it's quite a natural inclusion to consider them & their role etc.... as part of the overall discussion.

    Perhaps if you have a particular reason or concern for thinking that lie detectors and body language shouldn't be deliberated over in the same conversation then you can enlighten us all to what it might be please.
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    Not sure if that was addressed to me, but
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Perhaps if you have a particular reason or concern for thinking that lie detectors and body language shouldn't be deliberated over in the same conversation then you can enlighten us all to what it might be please.
    I have zero objection to them being deliberated over in the conversation.
    What I do object to is Stargate's ridiculous conflation, as per the quote I gave:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate
    I am sure when calibrating equipment of this type like lie detectors would have to be based on control questions of a specific type. Where I question the validity is, are these control questions the same for everyone when I know body language is unique to every one? Can we use body language to achieve accuracy of truth.
    I.e. having differing body languages means sod all as far as a lie detector is concerned because lie detectors don't read body language.
    I have idea where he got the impression they do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Not sure if that was addressed to me, but
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Perhaps if you have a particular reason or concern for thinking that lie detectors and body language shouldn't be deliberated over in the same conversation then you can enlighten us all to what it might be please.
    I have zero objection to them being deliberated over in the conversation.
    What I do object to is Stargate's ridiculous conflation, as per the quote I gave:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate
    I am sure when calibrating equipment of this type like lie detectors would have to be based on control questions of a specific type. Where I question the validity is, are these control questions the same for everyone when I know body language is unique to every one? Can we use body language to achieve accuracy of truth.
    I.e. having differing body languages means sod all as far as a lie detector is concerned because lie detectors don't read body language.
    I have idea where he got the impression they do.
    I can see what you mean, but I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. What I think he is trying to do is suggest differences in different peoples body language and asking if it can still be used as an accurate method for gauging truth, the bit about the lie detectors using standard control questions seems to be suggesting similarities in this approach regardless of who being assessed, but I do not think he was suggesting any convergence of the two, instead using both as a direct comparison against each other. Certainly in this context it makes far more sense and is understandable, or at least I found it so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Not sure if that was addressed to me, but
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Perhaps if you have a particular reason or concern for thinking that lie detectors and body language shouldn't be deliberated over in the same conversation then you can enlighten us all to what it might be please.
    I have zero objection to them being deliberated over in the conversation.
    What I do object to is Stargate's ridiculous conflation, as per the quote I gave:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate
    I am sure when calibrating equipment of this type like lie detectors would have to be based on control questions of a specific type. Where I question the validity is, are these control questions the same for everyone when I know body language is unique to every one? Can we use body language to achieve accuracy of truth.
    I.e. having differing body languages means sod all as far as a lie detector is concerned because lie detectors don't read body language.
    I have idea where he got the impression they do.
    I can see what you mean, but I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. What I think he is trying to do is suggest differences in different peoples body language and asking if it can still be used as an accurate method for gauging truth, the bit about the lie detectors using standard control questions seems to be suggesting similarities in this approach regardless of who being assessed, but I do not think he was suggesting any convergence of the two, instead using both as a direct comparison against each other. Certainly in this context it makes far more sense and is understandable, or at least I found it so.
    Thank you ascended, that was the point I was making. I wonder why you know where I was going and what I was trying to elude to? Am I really that off in explaining?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Am I really that off in explaining?
    As usual you're less than lucid. Or rational.

    Your comment:
    I am sure when calibrating equipment of this type like lie detectors would have to be based on control questions of a specific type. Where I question the validity is, are these control questions the same for everyone when I know body language is unique to every one?
    Seems to implies directly that there's a conflation.
    The reference to control questions with regard to lie detectors and then the same phrase - "control questions" - in the context of body language.

    Thank you ascended, that was the point I was making.
    Full marks to Ascended. Although I don't know if he deserves congratulations (for being smart enough to decipher your drivel) or sympathy (for being able to make sense of your drivel).

    Surely you could have tried to explain your point, rather than simply dismissing my original question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Thank you ascended, that was the point I was making. I wonder why you know where I was going and what I was trying to elude to? Am I really that off in explaining?
    Hey to get us back on track here, just equate it to trying to understand body language in that it is easy sometimes to not fully understand the exact meaning. Usually in verbal communication understanding is much clearer because our words are well understood and defined but even then we don't all either use or understand them in the same context.
    But nobody is perfect when it comes to making themselves fully understood, everybody and I mean everybody is still learning, the good thing here is we can all learn off each other and the more you practice the better you will become. Just remember though that no form of communication is perfect and if someone doesn't understand you just explain it in another way and simplify each point, people are bound to understand eventually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BobTheIgnorant View Post
    I have been reading up on what body language is and the habits people make in certain circumstances. Though I have yet to find any criticism of body language though, and I find that a little weird. Considering even some of the weirdest idea's have criticism and yet I have not found any on body language. Further more there aren't any reasons given for the things that are taught. Very much of what is is definitions and terms.

    Then again I could be under a rock and everyone is enjoying the sun. So if anyone can point me in the direction or can tell me anything that would help me I would very much appreciate it.
    Body language is a no no on this Scientific Forum. Even a light discussion of the language gets tossed into the trash Can. Interesting body language from the first woman to lead a prayer for the mormon
    I don't remember if I was the one that trashed the thread, but it certainly deserved it. Did anybody consider that she might be folding her hands in prayer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I can often tell what one is thinking from body language. Even if I don't know them well. Their eye movements, the way they stand, walk, anything. Can I read their minds? Nope.
    What do you think you are reading if you can tell what they are thinking? Are you measuring their eye movement to yours, or what do you take to be your reference point?
    usually their current moment, whatever it may be. I have only been doing this since I was like 8...
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    I speak of body language as something I study. I apply it to my craft. I have yet to see someone who is miserable be able to fake happy....it never shows or rings true to form.....but it is interesting in observing how they attempt to pretend they aren't miserable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I speak of body language as something I study. I apply it to my craft. I have yet to see someone who is miserable be able to fake happy....it never shows or rings true to form.....but it is interesting in observing how they attempt to pretend they aren't miserable.
    Yes people try to fake the truth, but body language moves to a different sound of internal voices that we read like a sign language. I am not sure, but I am am willing to suggest it is different for everyone, or is it? What do you think?
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    I completely agree.
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    Body Language is individual. Period. Physicality usually is. I have also studied Movement. To play a character that uses a cane, I hung out at old people places. How do they place the cane. Do they use their dominant hand. Do they step with the cane side foot or the other. How do they ANCHOR the cane after placing it.
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    I think body language depends upon observation and genes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    I think body language depends upon observation and genes.
    I disagree. I think it is very individual though I think some may be copied from family members....from similarity in upbringing.
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    which offers an intro to: technique acting vs method acting?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    which offers an intro to: technique acting vs method acting?
    To me, the Movement class was like an "update" to acting, be it technique or Method..... I don't consider myself in either category.....not how I studied theatre!
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