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Thread: Knowing your own mind

  1. #1 Knowing your own mind 
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    I have never heard this refered to except insofar as that it is a quality to be wished for /cherished /admired.

    However ,in my own mind I find there is a repository of self ignorance that I would be sorry to loose (in fact if I was to give a yes/no answer I would find it hard to argue against a more or less total state of what I find I have called "self ignorance".)

    On the other hand in other people I can find it infuriating.

    Without necessarily going into the subject in any depth would anyone agree with me that "self awareness" "knowing your self" may have been oversold?


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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Without necessarily going into the subject in any depth would anyone agree with me that "self awareness" "knowing your self" may have been oversold?
    No, I wouldn't agree.


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    Huh? I'm not entirely sure I follow. (How does this section work, do people have to provide a hypothesis or else it is moved to the philosophy section to be put under the 'philosophy of mind'??)
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    I should confess I have been banned from the odd philosophy forum for various reasons and so I would be averse to being dumped back into another one! (so mods please don't move there just delete if required!)

    Is that what you didn't follow or was it was I was trying to say that made no sense?
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    I lost my mind long ago.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
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  7. #6  
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    Knowing your own mind just means being certain about what you want or what you believe.

    If you have gaps in your knowledge, then you can be certain in wanting (or not wanting) to know more about it.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    I lost my mind long ago.
    It's ok...the dog found it and buried it in the bushes. It's still good.
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post

    Without necessarily going into the subject in any depth would anyone agree with me that "self awareness" "knowing your self" may have been oversold?
    The old adage 'knowing your self' in my opinion can fuel the notion that our mind is seperate to our expression of self and is a reliable 'unbiased' foundation upon which we can objectively make decisions. Unfortunately we cannot extract our minds from the problem as an independent unbiased observer. We need to recognise that our thoughts are a composite of personal experiences that bias our responses.

    A critical examination of why we have a concept of self however can be extremely enlightening. As our thoughts are ultimately manifest in behaviour, and if that behaviour is counterpoint to our survival and incoherent, then it seems to me that a critical examination of thought itself is warranted.

    Unfortunately we can only surmise another persons thought processes, so it would bear more fruit to be able to self assess our own thoughts and trace their origin with the aim of re-aligning those thought processes to achieve coherence. To do so however requires extreme patience as thought itself has defence mechanisms of re-inforcement built in to make this exceedingly difficult.

    It is easier to commence the process by examining our behaviour as opposed to thoughts themselves. If that behaviour is at odds with surviving on this planet then the task is to determine what is the appropriate behaviour to adopt and establish steps to follow this path. Adherence to this logic will hopefully ultimately be reinforced through a realignment of our thoughts themselves. In a nutshell, focus on the behaviour as opposed to the mind. :-))
    Last edited by Implicate Order; October 21st, 2013 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Clarity of expression, grammatical errors and typos
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    My mom told me to never associate with strangers.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    My mom told me to never associate with strangers.
    Very wise *shifts position in chair while still remaining attentive*, now would it help to tell me about your mother? :-))
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    I know my own mind perfectly. what i literally like to think about/ponder, what gives me joy/sadness, and more important HOW i reason. Logic is subjective after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    Logic is subjective after all.
    Nope.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    Logic is subjective after all.
    Nope.
    Turns out that on the Internet it is. Who knew.
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    So people don't process differently...
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    So people don't process differently...
    What does that mean?
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    People think differently.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    People think differently.
    Apparently. Is that supposed to justify your "logic is subjective" claim?

    If so, it doesn't. Logic is a formal method reasoning, a branch of mathematics in fact and therefore as far from subjective as it is possible to get.

    (Unless you mean the crackpot definition of "logic" which appears to mean something like "it makes sense to me".)
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    It's clear I wasn't mentioning mathematical logic.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    It's clear I wasn't mentioning mathematical logic.
    There isn't any other sort. (This is a science forum, by the way. I don't know if you have noticed.)
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    It's clear I wasn't mentioning mathematical logic.
    And Strange wasn't only referring to mathematical logic.
    ALL logic is a formal method of reasoning - there's nothing "subjective" about it.
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    My point was that how people think and process is different. Logic is used thus subjectively.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    My point was that how people think and process is different. Logic is used thus subjectively.
    My opinion:
    Logic is not the same as "thinking and processing" as you are implying.
    Strange has correctly stated that logic is a strict set of principles for formal reasoning. It's one kind of method of thinking. You provide some input, you employ the method (some logical procedure - deduction, induction...) and you get some output.

    However, thinking is a process, where you evaluate the input data using different methods, like logical reasoning, intuition etc....

    Now, indeed, people think and process differently as you've said... why?
    because:
    1. They use different inputs (we don't see the exact reflection of reality, everyone sees only his own construction of reality), their observation was wrong, they use wrong theory...
    2. They use different combinations of thinking methods
    3. Their level of logical thinking is different, they might use wrong method/misuse the method
    4. Some don't think at all (or divide by 0)


    Let's consider some example in physics. If you take some classical physics views of some topic(input #1), employ some logical principles, you'll get some result. If you take quantum physics view of the same topic(input #2), apply the same logical principles, you'll also get some results. These too might be different. Logic is the same, outputs are different.
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    Nicely put. This explains very well the "crackpot" use of the word logic: "I have thought about this and come to the following uninformed and semi-random conclusions"

    This goes along with their use of the word "research" to mean, "I have been watching crank videos on youtube"
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    Ok i didnt use the word properly. I dont often use precise information.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    I dont often use precise information.
    We've noticed.
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    Humans dont.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    Humans dont.
    Not sentences. Just fragments. Don't understand.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    never mind..
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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    I have never heard this refered to except insofar as that it is a quality to be wished for /cherished /admired.

    However ,in my own mind I find there is a repository of self ignorance that I would be sorry to loose (in fact if I was to give a yes/no answer I would find it hard to argue against a more or less total state of what I find I have called "self ignorance".)

    On the other hand in other people I can find it infuriating.

    Without necessarily going into the subject in any depth would anyone agree with me that "self awareness" "knowing your self" may have been oversold?
    Nope
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    I lost my mind long ago.
    I gave you mine? I am so sorry!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarnamluvu View Post
    So people don't process differently...
    don't process what?
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    Process thoughts/feelings differently.

    What else did you believe I was referring to?
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    Oversold? How do you oversell knowing your mind? Do you mean overrated? If that's what you ment then I would have to agree. If knowing yourself gives you confidence than that''s great, but otherwise it's something that's not even important to think about imo. The only way you get to know yourself is through experiences, which are probably the most important thing to you in your life.

    I guess getting to know yourself is something old people unintentionally do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Huntsman View Post
    Oversold? How do you oversell knowing your mind? Do you mean overrated? If that's what you ment then I would have to agree. If knowing yourself gives you confidence than that''s great, but otherwise it's something that's not even important to think about imo. The only way you get to know yourself is through experiences, which are probably the most important thing to you in your life.

    I guess getting to know yourself is something old people unintentionally do.
    Oh really?
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    I guess getting to know yourself is something old people unintentionally do.
    Guess?

    Spoken by someone not yet old enough to judge something like this I expect.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I guess getting to know yourself is something old people unintentionally do.
    Guess?

    Spoken by someone not yet old enough to judge something like this I expect.
    You're right I'm not old. Just something I noticed when visiting relatives in old age care homes, or elerly people in general who are retired and live a very simple life. There's plenty of time to get to know yourself at that stage than you do when you're young with alot on your plate. Not to say that elderly people haven't got alot on their plate, but it's not like they are striving to get degrees, finish apprenticeships, commit to sport, buying houses, cars, weddings, kids and whatever else. When you are stationary in life with a ton of life experience I confidently assume there wouldn't be much else to talk about with your other old friends than the memories you have and reflecting on your experiences, which is the best way of getting to know yourself - conversing with others about your experiences.

    Which is why I agree that it's overrated when you are young, because you'll unintentionally do it when you're older
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Huntsman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I guess getting to know yourself is something old people unintentionally do.
    Guess?

    Spoken by someone not yet old enough to judge something like this I expect.
    You're right I'm not old. Just something I noticed when visiting relatives in old age care homes, or elerly people in general who are retired and live a very simple life. There's plenty of time to get to know yourself at that stage than you do when you're young with alot on your plate. Not to say that elderly people haven't got alot on their plate, but it's not like they are striving to get degrees, finish apprenticeships, commit to sport, buying houses, cars, weddings, kids and whatever else. When you are stationary in life with a ton of life experience I confidently assume there wouldn't be much else to talk about with your other old friends than the memories you have and reflecting on your experiences, which is the best way of getting to know yourself - conversing with others about your experiences.

    Which is why I agree that it's overrated when you are young, because you'll unintentionally do it when you're older
    Horsepucky.....mods I did add the "K" ..you know yourself by the time you are 30...realize you made adjustments to that knowledge by the time you are 40 and by 50 you have it down ...YOU KNOW WHO YOU are and you are still striving to get degrees, finish apprenticeships, commit to sports, and buying houses, even adopting children, buying hot new cars...planning their weddings, and I forgot the around the world trip, performing music and theatre, ziplining, hiking through the Alps, fishing, paddleboarding, waterskiing, snow skiing, skydiving....surfing.. traveling all over the world....etc...and estate planning for yourself to make sure you can continue to do all this stuff..... You are obviously ignorant to adults life. But you'll learn. I have more on my plate now then I EVER did when I was 20 or 30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Huntsman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I guess getting to know yourself is something old people unintentionally do.
    Guess?

    Spoken by someone not yet old enough to judge something like this I expect.
    You're right I'm not old. Just something I noticed when visiting relatives in old age care homes, or elerly people in general who are retired and live a very simple life. There's plenty of time to get to know yourself at that stage than you do when you're young with alot on your plate. Not to say that elderly people haven't got alot on their plate, but it's not like they are striving to get degrees, finish apprenticeships, commit to sport, buying houses, cars, weddings, kids and whatever else. When you are stationary in life with a ton of life experience I confidently assume there wouldn't be much else to talk about with your other old friends than the memories you have and reflecting on your experiences, which is the best way of getting to know yourself - conversing with others about your experiences.

    Which is why I agree that it's overrated when you are young, because you'll unintentionally do it when you're older
    Horsepucky.....mods I did add the "K" ..you know yourself by the time you are 30...realize you made adjustments to that knowledge by the time you are 40 and by 50 you have it down ...YOU KNOW WHO YOU are and you are still striving to get degrees, finish apprenticeships, commit to sports, and buying houses, even adopting children, buying hot new cars...planning their weddings, and I forgot the around the world trip, performing music and theatre, ziplining, hiking through the Alps, fishing, paddleboarding, waterskiing, snow skiing, skydiving....surfing.. traveling all over the world....etc...and estate planning for yourself to make sure you can continue to do all this stuff..... You are obviously ignorant to adults life. But you'll learn. I have more on my plate now then I EVER did when I was 20 or 30.
    I think you are just the exception to the rule! I've found it very rare that I meet people in their 30's,40's,50's,60's that are even close to being that active in their life. Infact I think it's rare that anyone is that active in their life where they are doing that many things and striving to be the best they can be. People like that are very inspiring.
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    Infact I think it's rare that anyone is that active in their life where they are doing that many things and striving to be the best they can be. People like that are very inspiring.
    Perhaps you haven't been part of a group of adults who are running themselves all over the place taking care of kids - and learning about all the things that their kids become interested in. At that age adults are also running on maximum getting ahead with their jobs and maintaining or adding to their qualifications. In your 30s and 40s you're still fully capable of playing sports - or you might take over coaching or helping out with your kids sports teams.

    When you get past that stage, especially if you're retired, you may talk about yourself and your life differently which can give younger people the impression you're more thoughtful and together. But when we talk about people "in their prime" we're really talking about 30s to 50s for most people, unless we're talking about sports.

    One of the things that busy people don't do is talk about all the stuff they're doing in much detail. That doesn't mean they haven't thought about what they do and why they do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Infact I think it's rare that anyone is that active in their life where they are doing that many things and striving to be the best they can be. People like that are very inspiring.
    Perhaps you haven't been part of a group of adults who are running themselves all over the place taking care of kids - and learning about all the things that their kids become interested in. At that age adults are also running on maximum getting ahead with their jobs and maintaining or adding to their qualifications. In your 30s and 40s you're still fully capable of playing sports - or you might take over coaching or helping out with your kids sports teams.

    When you get past that stage, especially if you're retired, you may talk about yourself and your life differently which can give younger people the impression you're more thoughtful and together. But when we talk about people "in their prime" we're really talking about 30s to 50s for most people, unless we're talking about sports.

    One of the things that busy people don't do is talk about all the stuff they're doing in much detail. That doesn't mean they haven't thought about what they do and why they do it.
    Hearing that you won't hit your prime until your 30's-50's is great news. I had always thought once you hit your 30's it's downhill from there. Atleast for males and sports, because once you hit that age your body produces less testosterone and will continue to drop, which means your body won't recover as fast which means you can't train as hard. But yeh thanks for your post, it has shone a new light on this subject for me for sure.
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    Horsepucky.....mods I did add the "K" ..you know yourself by the time you are 30...realize you made adjustments to that knowledge by the time you are 40 and by 50 you have it down ...YOU KNOW WHO YOU are and you are still striving to get degrees, finish apprenticeships, commit to sports, and buying houses, even adopting children, buying hot new cars...planning their weddings, and I forgot the around the world trip, performing music and theatre, ziplining, hiking through the Alps, fishing, paddleboarding, waterskiing, snow skiing, skydiving....surfing.. traveling all over the world....etc...and estate planning for yourself to make sure you can continue to do all this stuff..... You are obviously ignorant to adults life. But you'll learn. I have more on my plate now then I EVER did when I was 20 or 30.

    I think you are just the exception to the rule! I've found it very rare that I meet people in their 30's,40's,50's,60's that are even close to being that active in their life. Infact I think it's rare that anyone is that active in their life where they are doing that many things and striving to be the best they can be. People like that are very inspiring.
    I played golf with a man....who walked, and carried his bag till he was 91 years old and shot at least once a year in the 70's and had shot his age every day since her was 69 years old. He worked out three days a week.

    I play golf with a 78 year old retired head of an ER, and former research pediactric doctor. She also paddles and has won her age group for the Moloka'i to Mau'i paddle every year. She also runs a small farm...continues to do (now) "resort guest" medicine, surf, and dive.

    Being busy is a good thing for any age.

    You aren't dead when you hit 70 or even 80......unless you wish to be.

    I may not be able to ski (water or snow) anymore due to injuries from a major car accident, but I power walk, lift weights, golf and any other exercise or sport I can.

    I would NEVER want to be 30 again. However, I will admit....I wouldn't mind being 45 again!
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    (Unless you mean the crackpot definition of "logic" which appears to mean something like "it makes sense to me".)
    So what is your definition of logic?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Huntsman View Post
    Oversold? How do you oversell knowing your mind? Do you mean overrated? If that's what you ment then I would have to agree. If knowing yourself gives you confidence than that''s great, but otherwise it's something that's not even important to think about imo. The only way you get to know yourself is through experiences, which are probably the most important thing to you in your life.

    I guess getting to know yourself is something old people unintentionally do.
    The only way you get to know yourself is through experiences, which are probably the most important thing to you in your life.
    Experience is the key, or maybe there is another way, if so I would like to know of it.
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  45. #44  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    I've always interpreted "knowing one's mind" as being extremely confident in one's viewpoints. An unwavering sense of self awareness, that comes from both the accumulation of objective knowledge and the wisdom of individual experience. Just my $.02.
    Lynx_Fox, adelady and babe like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've always interpreted "knowing one's mind" as being extremely confident in one's viewpoints. An unwavering sense of self awareness, that comes from both the accumulation of objective knowledge and the wisdom of individual experience. Just my $.02.
    My view is that objective knowledge can only be expressed subjectively. As I said there are different views.
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    I have been thinking about this thread that I started and what I meant to say then.
    So what I may have been trying to get at could have been this.

    In society we all have to confront other people's ideas of who they think we are.
    Your parents for example might present you to their acquaintances as having a character that they suppose or wish to be -which can lead you to act along with their assessment so as not to openly contradict or dissappoint them.

    This may simply take the form of politely agreeing , politely disagreeing ,changing the subject ,switching off or actively accepting the flattery (it has mostly always been flattery in my case -I have never personally suffered unduly from being denigrated -edits in bold upon reflexion) .

    In my case the reflex has always been that the other person has quite limited insight as to my own particular character and so this has given rise to a supposition on my part that I (the keeper of the jewels) naturally do have access to this knowledge.

    It was as a result of questioning this that I thought I might post this thread to see if others on this forum might have ever had a similar feeling- that no matter how much you might seem to be inwardly aware of your own character (I realise that the character is multi-faceted and changes with time and so cannot be pinned down) there is always a large (?) part that is unknowable.

    And ,as I said in the first post I found that quite reassuring and satisfying.
    Last edited by geordief; November 6th, 2013 at 05:44 AM.
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