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Thread: Legalize Prostitution, Polygamy, Incest and Bestiality

  1. #1 Legalize Prostitution, Polygamy, Incest and Bestiality 
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
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    Legalize Prostitution, Polygamy, Incest and Bestiality | In Their Own Words | Big Think

    I like this guys thinking, shocking as that may be.


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    Prostitution - agreed.
    Multiple marriages - a lot of legal work has to be done before this can work. Once the details have been worked out - agreed.
    Incest - Public health risk there, so you'd have to have some way of ensuring no procreation. If you could do that - agreed.
    Bestiality - Even bigger health risk, and a cruelty to animals issue as well.


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Prostitution - agreed.
    Multiple marriages - a lot of legal work has to be done before this can work. Once the details have been worked out - agreed.
    Incest - Public health risk there, so you'd have to have some way of ensuring no procreation. If you could do that - agreed.
    Bestiality - Even bigger health risk, and a cruelty to animals issue as well.
    As far as any of those activities might cause harm to others or society, yes common sense needs to prevail. Just saying if some guy wants to play with his dog, I don't want as a tax payer to pay for his stay in jail. Who knows if the dog didn't make the first pass by doing a little humping. Also, if some guy wants and can afford more than one wife why not? Who am I to say that's not natural and he should be criminally prosecuted for it?

    With the current state of DNA testing everybody wanting children should be tested to see if there is a possibility of passing genetic problems on to their children. This would solve whether incest might be a problem or not and my guess is it would not be for just about all first generation children.

    Prostitution as long as people are protected it is not a problem, and that's already proven by countries that have legalized it.
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    > This would solve whether incest might be a problem or not and my guess is it would not be for just about all first generation children.

    PROVIDED screening was enough to reduce the risk of genetic defects back to baseline (which I don't think it is) AND provided that you could effectively prevent those people from procreating - then OK. That seems like a nearly impssible thing to legislate, though.
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  6. #5  
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    legalize bestiality

    "Have sheep, will travel"
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    > This would solve whether incest might be a problem or not and my guess is it would not be for just about all first generation children.

    PROVIDED screening was enough to reduce the risk of genetic defects back to baseline (which I don't think it is) AND provided that you could effectively prevent those people from procreating - then OK. That seems like a nearly impssible thing to legislate, though.
    Let me ask you this. If you and your girlfriend were in love and wanted children together and you both got tested and found you had a 50-50 chance of having very low IQ children. What would you do? Even with no legislation to prevent you from having children. Would you take the chance, or would you look for a more compatable partner?

    I'm betting most people would look for a better partner to insure normal or better than normal children. Of course there will always be those who refuse to be tested and hope for the best, but I wouldn't be one of them.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    legalize bestiality

    "Have sheep, will travel"
    Honey quick get the camera we've got to have some pictures or no one will believe us.
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  9. #8  
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    It's difficult to find a strong argument against interest in preventing prostitution between consenting adults, particularly with the health screening, behavior requirements and safeguards required in nations (and States) that licence it. It's also often exploitative, which is why if permitted at all, it should be regulated. Having lived in Germany for 3 years, I think their take was more pragmatic--it's going to happen anyhow, so lets regulate it to mitigate the negative effects.

    Arguments around preventing polygamy probably revolve around documentation that it's often exploitative of women in just about every culture where it's practiced.

    Prohibitions against bestiality are more difficult to show a government interest to prevent without implied rights for animals who can't consent (similar to children though it's legally explicit in their case).

    Incest when children are involved is well documented child abuse with serious negative mental problems often the result.

    Incest between adults is less risky to the offspring than most commonly believed, probably no higher than having kids over age 40. There's also a tiny chance it will reinforce positive genes.

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    The great problem with sex is the disparity of power between the partisipants. The correct position of the law would be to protect the weaker/ more vulnerable party. Women are genrally both the weaker and the more vulnerable party. Keeping prostitution illegal criminalizes the women who engage in it, giving them yet another burden to bear. Making it legal and regulated by law should serve to protect the partisipants. That being said I must admit to never having paid for sex, and never having met a prostitute or former prostitute who was particularly positive about the profession. So what do I know.
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    I don't see a problem with prostitution being legal (it's legal in other parts of the world), I'm not too sure about the others.
    Polygamy could raise issues with next-of-kin rights and so on.
    Incest would probably be okay between family members of the same gender but opposite-gender incest could lead to problems with inbreeding and all the issues that inbreeding causes, etc.
    Bestiality is an animal abuse/rights issue, they can't give consent so I don't think bestiality should be encouraged.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Never thought Prostitution should not be legal....now the other stuff....I am not a fan of.

    Incest is totally NO FREAKING WAY!
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Prostitution - agreed.
    Multiple marriages - a lot of legal work has to be done before this can work. Once the details have been worked out - agreed.
    Incest - Public health risk there, so you'd have to have some way of ensuring no procreation. If you could do that - agreed.
    Bestiality - Even bigger health risk, and a cruelty to animals issue as well.
    Please explain cruelty to animals!!
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Never thought Prostitution should not be legal....now the other stuff....I am not a fan of.

    Incest is totally NO FREAKING WAY!
    I think most people feel a yuckiness about incest, but then I feel super yucky about same sex relationships, bestiality and even a bit for prostitution, but I still can't see imposing my values on others as long as no one is getting hurt by their yucky relationships.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Never thought Prostitution should not be legal....now the other stuff....I am not a fan of.

    Incest is totally NO FREAKING WAY!
    I think most people feel a yuckiness about incest, but then I feel super yucky about same sex relationships, bestiality and even a bit for prostitution, but I still can't see imposing my values on others as long as no one is getting hurt by their yucky relationships.
    Incest to me is just wrong....same sex relationships? I think 90% of those are born into their sexuality and some just experimenting.....doesn't bother me in the least...Beasty stuff is kind of gross to me...and maybe not animals...I don't know...can't seak for them!!

    Polygamy only if it went both ways....I agree with someone and it's late so I haven't gone back to post their comment, but I agreed that in countries where that is accepted, women were what I call "undervalued".
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    Prostitution - sure, why not. It's the oldest trade there is, and probably the one that will stick around longest, so decriminalise it.
    Polygamy - sure, that's everyone's personal business.
    Incest - public health risk; also a child welfare concern. So no.
    Bestiality - public health risk; animal welfare issue. Definitely no.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Prostitution - sure, why not. It's the oldest trade there is... .
    I have always hated that expression.
    A), I think it untrue.
    B) It seems derogatory.
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  18. #17  
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    Ideally, its the problems related to the activities you need to address, imo, its better to use information/education and find other solutions rather than say 'hey its illegal'. Because if you say 'hey its illegal' without solving the underlying factors, it will simply continue behind closed doors, the equivalent of sweeping the dirt under the rug, not a real solution.

    Incidental, Prostitution is one of the many problems created by our money-based economic system, in a moneyless society (or alternate economic system) where access to goods and services is granted, anyone can have sex if they want, but very few would see sex as a chore/labor in order to obtain a wage.

    Polygamy: To me marriage is an archaic rite in the first place, if people want to marry multiple partners, baptise their pet bird, confirm that the tree is a muslim/christan/jewish tree or wear animal skins and live in caves, it doesn't bother me.
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    Prostitution- Legalize it, that's the only way I'll ever get laid legally.
    Polygamy- Legalize it, with the number of individuals that "cheat" on their partner, this seems suitable.
    Incest- Depends, if it were to be monitored via screening, I don't see why it should be illegal. However, one can't simply make this legal for homosexual couples, it'll ignite the polar opposite of gay rights that we have today.
    Bestiality- Illegal. There's simply no way you could define this by anything but interspecies rape. Also poses health risks.\

    While remaining on a similar topic, should necrophilia be legalized? Realize many individuals would find it repulsive, however, it's a dead body of no use to anything asides from archaic feelings of sentiment.
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  20. #19  
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    should necrophilia be legalized?
    First we need to make the distinction between the condition necrophilia that a person is attracted to this (state/thought), and the actions 'acts of'.
    It certainly should not be illegal to have thoughts/attraction/preferences, no thought crimes please, its the actions that should be examined. I find this extremely disgusting myself, but realize no one chooses to be this way (and since I find it very disgusting I find such people to be very unlucky, as opposed to being bad persons. )

    The other consideration, is whether the dead person wanted his remains to be exposed to this or not, yes the person his dead, but still, its not unreasonable to choose how our bodies will be disposed after we die, and the people close to the person will feel bad knowing its not respected.

    Imo, in some culture/communities it is legitimate to make (the act) it illegal and in other cultures/communities its legitimate to make it legal if most people in that culture/community have no problems with it, it is legitimate and possible to set codes of conduct/lifestyle rules/values charters because different people want to live in a society/community that is a good match for their preference/value/culture, it makes sense to have a diversity of codes/laws/rules/guidelines, the same way having 31 flavours of Ice Cream is better than having the same flavour 31 times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Bestiality- Illegal. There's simply no way you could define this by anything but interspecies rape. Also poses health risks.
    Yes I really hate it when the dog humps the cat. Also, in case you haven't noticed sex with humans can be a health risk.
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    If you legalise prostitution, polygamy, incest and bestiality then what I am going to do for fun?
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    " Also, in case you haven't noticed sex with humans can be a health risk."

    Sex between humans should be illegal to avoid he health risks. Sex with animals should be a rape crime, the animal does not want to be used in that way, but cutting their throats and eating their flesh, thats ok.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Incest - public health risk; also a child welfare concern. So no.
    Why do you see that as a child welfare concern? (provided there were screenings to prevent genetic defects in any potential children)
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Please explain cruelty to animals!!
    Some people have pretty violent fetishes. Combine that with animals and you could have some very cruel treatment of animals, since they cannot consent.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    If you legalize prostitution, polygamy, incest and bestiality then what I am going to do for fun?
    I think people have that same problem with drugs. Many laws only create opportunity for bad guys to get rich.
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    Prostitution makes since to legalize it. Minor public health thing, so making them get checked for STDs makes since.
    Polygamy doesn't mean more than one wife, it means more than one spouse. This also includes group marriages, etc. Basically, the marriage would be a trust where things were held jointly. Anyone leaves, they get a percent based on the number of people in it.
    Incest isn't near as dangerous as people think. In fact, incest is quite common with animals, especially in nature. No freaks there. Also, there's the issue of letting the government legislate who can and can't have kids with the regulations on it. I don't want to go down that slope.
    Beastialy doesn't equal animal cruelty unless the animal doesn't want it. Sorry to say it because it makes me look like a freak, but unless you can prove that they are mistreating animals for sex or something similar, it's not animal cruelty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    If you legalise prostitution, polygamy, incest and bestiality then what I am going to do for fun?
    You like that it's illegal? Or will it just cut into your profits?
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnknowable View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    If you legalise prostitution, polygamy, incest and bestiality then what I am going to do for fun?
    You like that it's illegal? Or will it just cut into your profits?
    If you knew what my wives looked like, you would understand why I prefer having a threesome with my sister and a labrador!
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    Rick Santorum took a lot of heat for comparing laws on homosexual acts to laws on incest, bigamy, adultery, polygamy, etc. It didn't take long to prove he was right.
    Rick Santorum's views on homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Rick Santorum took a lot of heat for comparing laws on homosexual acts to laws on incest, bigamy, adultery, polygamy, etc. It didn't take long to prove he was right.
    Rick Santorum's views on homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    hehe, good point. I understand your apprehensions, even if I dont share them.

    imo the problem is not conservative views or liberal(as you call/perceive it) views, the problem is that people with very different values, all live within a giant pan continental state that kind-of has people with different values fight to impose their values and one-size-fits-all-Imperial-law-of-the-entire-continent on others that dont share them.

    Some of the conservative values are not wrong by themselves, if Hamish want to live in the old ways with traditional values, I think they should be allowed to, but it appears we are trying to impose our values on the Hamish and the figurative Hamish(conservatives) are trying to impose their ways on others.

    I think policies based on values should be confined to regional political units that define their values clearly(and change these at their own pace), so that people can choose which region and set of values fits best their own. More people are happy when you have 31 flavours of Ice Cream, than when you have the same flavour of ice cream 31 times. (You can have you car in any colour as long as its black)


    Im not a fan of the Olympics for various reasons, but if you say all countries are included, you have to face the fact that values in different countries may be incompatible so that in some cases something can not please everyone, one, or another country/culture will be offended/unhappy.
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Rick Santorum took a lot of heat for comparing laws on homosexual acts to laws on incest, bigamy, adultery, polygamy, etc. It didn't take long to prove he was right.
    Rick Santorum's views on homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however he wouldn't get my vote.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    It didn't take long to prove he was right wing.
    Fixed that for you!

    Let's look at what he said:
    "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything."
    Well - he started ok but ended it with a bullshit 'slippery slope' argument.
    (I also wonder why he thinks that adultery in not already a 'right'. It's not actually illegal.)

    "Whether it's polygamy, whether it's adultery, whether it's sodomy, all of those things, are antithetical to a healthy, stable, traditional family."
    And here he is with a pointless tautological sentence.
    Of course a non-traditional family is antithetical to a traditional family.
    So, it's just a trivially true statement.

    But it does imply that polygamous families are (by definition) unhealthy and unstable - which is false.
    It also implies that sodomy leads to an unhealthy and unstable family - which is also false.

    So, he's definitely been proved wrong.
    But that's politicians for you: "Shit in. Shit out."
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    ""If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to "
    Im not an expert on US politics, but, arent the right wing people the ones who are supposed not to want Big Government to be in your bedroom?

    (the slightly-less-right-wing, which you call left, arent for that either, but Im surprized extreme-right, which you call right, put laws and bedrooms.
    Hum, now that I think about it, since they are both pro-life and pro-death-penalty, Im not going to try to understand, but just quietly observe with strange curiosity, and pretend Im not confused and that its all normal)
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    Im not an expert on US politics, but, arent the right wing people the ones who are supposed not to want Big Government to be in your bedroom?
    Traditionally they consider themselves the "party of conservative morality" and have opposed gay rights and gay marriage legislation, have opposed sex ed and easy availability of contraception (since both those promote lower-consequence sexuality) and have supported anti-sodomy statutes. They have also strongly supported abstinence as a method of birth control.
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    This is the first paragraph from the link.

    Prostitution, Polygamy, Incest and Bestiality. I would argue that all of them should be legal. That is for the same reason that the state has very little interest controlling what people do in their own private lives in their own bedrooms unless it directly and negatively affects other people in a tangible way.
    This bloke hasn't thought very deeply about this. The "state" - as the legal embodiment of the general community - has a great deal of interest in what might happen in private homes, including bedrooms. Why else do we have laws about intimate partner violence, marital rape and child neglect or abuse?

    As for his particular focus on sexual taboos, he's missing the point. It's all about consent. If a sexual partner is incapable of giving valid consent, then it's rape or assault of one form or another.

    Prostitution.
    That's why "legalising" prostitution comes with a whole heap of regulatory restrictions and boundaries. And it should. If you make it open slather, you open the door to exploitation and abuse with the ghastly bonus of trafficking in women, children and some men. It's not just a business "like any other business". Sex worker employees are not just being paid for their time, they're putting their bodies and their physical and mental health on the line.

    Incest.
    People who meet, and possibly marry, and later find out that they're full or part siblings should be left alone and the law should not have any power to cancel or otherwise invalidate such a marriage. The possibility of "defective" offspring is only a major issue when such marriages are repeated through several generations. Most marriages of siblings produce children entirely within the normal range, and plenty of marriages of unrelated parties produce children who aren't.

    Incest that is also pedophilia is out, once and for all, because of the consent issue. If a child/adolescent is not of legal age to give valid, enforceable agreement to a contract of employment or finance, they're not ready to consent to sex with an adult - whether it's a family member or not. Within families, there are also power issues with siblings - whether the issue is older siblings having more power or some individuals (usually women and girls) having less power because of their status. So a consensual teenage sexual relationship with someone outside the family in the same age group is not the same as an apparently similar relationship within a family.

    Bestiality.
    Is at least exploitation and it's usually abuse of an animal. The biggest issue is that we have no way of knowing whether it amounts to cruelty. That puts it in much the same category as rape of an incapacitated or unconscious human sexual partner or of a traumatised, needy child - if you can't know whether what you're doing is or isn't harmful, then you're showing that you're, at the very least willing to risk rape/ sexual assault, or you're deliberately doing it. Either way, you're morally reprehensible and the community can make its decision on whether the force of the law should be invoked. I think it should be.

    Polygamy, polyandry, polyamorous/ communal relationships.
    If adults want to create complicated sexual and family relationships then let them. They can pay for lawyers out of their own pockets to sort out property and related rights and inheritance provisions. The community's interest is in the welfare and education of children. I'm pretty unimpressed with the morals of people who set up what are in fact multiple polygamous households and get the state to pay for the lifestyle by treating them as unrelated single parent households where mothers don't earn their own money. I'm not sure exactly how to get around this without damaging the welfare of children who would otherwise not be provided for.
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  37. #36  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Please explain cruelty to animals!!
    Some people have pretty violent fetishes. Combine that with animals and you could have some very cruel treatment of animals, since they cannot consent.
    Good point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    You just want to be able to participate, don't you, and get away with it! (just like me!) jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    You just want to be able to participate, don't you, and get away with it! (just like me!) jocular
    Yours would fall off too? *chuckle*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    I think most people feel a yuckiness about incest, but then I feel super yucky about same sex relationships, bestiality and even a bit for prostitution, but I still can't see imposing my values on others as long as no one is getting hurt by their yucky relationships.
    VICE is nice!

    But INCEST is best!



    joc
    Last edited by jocular; August 30th, 2013 at 09:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    You just want to be able to participate, don't you, and get away with it! (just like me!) jocular
    Not really, I just saw that article and thought it might generate some discussion. I've noticed that most objections seem to center around the consent issue, so prosecute people on rape if that's the real crime. With prostitution there are countries where it's working well and crime rates have gone down in those countries since legalizing it. What's wrong with copying from other successful examples? As far as bestiality is concerned, if cruelty to animals can be proved, I'm all for locking up the guilty and throwing the key away, but you can't use lack of consent with animals, because people can own animals and have a right to train them to do things that make our lives more enjoyable. As far as incest is concerned as long as it doesn't become a family tradition it really won't cause a problem. Also, sex with children, incest or otherwise is still illegal, so it's not the incest that's the crime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    > This would solve whether incest might be a problem or not and my guess is it would not be for just about all first generation children.

    PROVIDED screening was enough to reduce the risk of genetic defects back to baseline (which I don't think it is) AND provided that you could effectively prevent those people from procreating - then OK. That seems like a nearly impssible thing to legislate, though.
    Let me ask you this. If you and your girlfriend were in love and wanted children together and you both got tested and found you had a 50-50 chance of having very low IQ children. What would you do? Even with no legislation to prevent you from having children. Would you take the chance, or would you look for a more compatable partner?

    I'm betting most people would look for a better partner to insure normal or better than normal children. Of course there will always be those who refuse to be tested and hope for the best, but I wouldn't be one of them.


    Artificial insemination is always an option. The couple could be prevented from having children that are from the pairing, but certainly if the wife is willing to visit a sperm bank she could have a child that was her child.

    The husband too, perhaps, maybe by implanting another woman's egg into the wife. Perhaps they could strike a deal. First kid is hers, second kid is his?
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