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Thread: Is trust earned or learned?

  1. #1 Is trust earned or learned? 
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    Without going into details, I was hurt by someone I once loved and trusted. Perhaps, one cannot fully love without trust. I'm over the ordeal, but the residue that remains is a significant inability for lack of a better word, to trust again.

    In discussing this with a friend, she said "you need to learn to trust again."
    I replied "isn't trust EARNED?"

    We talked a bit about it and I still came away wondering how to go about "learning" something that should come naturally, no? I think trust needs to be earned...otherwise we would invite a lot of mayhem into our lives, no? But she implied that it is something we must do.

    I was hopeful of getting some objective insight from you here, and I'd be interested in any advice you can give about trust. If you have had trust issues due to being betrayed in the past...how did you ever "learn" to trust again? I don't want to get hurt, again. I know that fear of being hurt again, drives the bus, so at least I'm aware of it, I guess.


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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    If you have had trust issues due to being betrayed in the past...how did you ever "learn" to trust again?
    I didn't.
    And now I'm not even going to try.


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    It's both.
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    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    If you have had trust issues due to being betrayed in the past...how did you ever "learn" to trust again?
    I didn't.And now I'm not even going to try.
    I'm in this category right now too. :/ I just have no desire to extend my heart to anyone. I enjoy company and friends but to trust beyond that...it's just too much effort for the hopeful ROI. I'm a rather optimistic person in every other area of my life except this. Hmmm!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    It's both.
    I've heard this.
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    Ok first, apologises if most of this sounds like waffle.

    I think we all trust naturally, it seems kind of instinctual. We have to trust others it part of the way we live, it's very difficult to live a modern and isolated lifestyle in this day and age. But trust, just like respect, is also earned. We may trust others to a certain degree because we have to and it's also part of being a confident person, but we each trust those more whom we have gotten to know and feel are worthy of trust, that have perhaps been there at times of difficulty or have equally been able to share or open up to us in similar manner. It's harder to trust people who are more guarded, because they are less vunerble and placing one's trust in somebody always makes you vunerable to some degree.

    Like many things in life we learn from experience, but there are certain types of people who perhaps seem more enigmatic, capable perhaps of showing different sides of their personality the closer someone may get. What it means is when it really comes down to it you can never truely completely know another person even after years together. Each of us a capable of do suprising things, this means that all trust is at least in some way taking a risk on another person.

    Trust is also a kind of test really, if you place your trust in someone and they let you down they have failed that test, so like with all tests there is no need to start with the highest levels, you start with something simple and work up to the more complicated stuff.

    Even the very basic levels are a test, we sit down at a bar and start to talk to the person next to you, now this is a test that you're a trusting them enough to respond in a polite and friendly manner, if they do then they pass the test and you may spark up an interesting conversation, however if for some reason you get a negative response then they have clearly failed the most basic of tests and you would simply not bother with them any further.

    I think though this kind of test is what we are always facing throughout life, another time a friend may ask you to help them out with something, again this is another test, they've placed their trust in you that you won't simply turn your back on them.

    But from the point of placing trust in others I think to start with you do need confidence in yourself, you need to know that you are a good person and a person worth knowing. Sometimes when you've been let down or hurt this can be harder to achieve, but it starts with the little things, and understanding that when people let you down it's not because there is anything wrong with you or you did anything wrong. Just simply that as people we are all flawed human beings, we will let others down at times, we will get things wrong and we make mistakes that's just the nature of being human.
    I think once we can't start to accept that we can also realise that doesn't happen all the time and won't happen everytime, we can start to take those small steps back towards trusting others and having faith in people again.

    Just the little things at first, perhaps being able to have a really nice conversation with someone who is also enjoying it can really help, then just starting to spend time with friends, people who enjoy your company. Then perhaps having the confidence to go and speak with stangers, these can all help to be able to trust people again. They will also help to build a more positive image of yourself so that you feel, once again, like the person that people don't want to let down.

    If you're the kind of person who cares about others, that will be there for them and can be trusted yourself then I think you will also expect that you can trust others, your view of other people will be a more hopeful and positive outlook on how they truely are, this will certainly help in learning to trust people again.
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    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
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    I couldn't really say. Every interpersonal relationship I've ever had "family aside" has resulted in a detriment for myself. I either A: Get screwed over in some manner. B: Discover a highly undesirable idiosyncratic trait within the person. C: Get bored of the person. D: Manage to frustrate the individual with my "sometimes quaint" eccentric behaviors.
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    Trust is not required by me for many things, so mostly I don't actually need to trust people.
    But, when I do need to trust someone, I find trust to be neither earner nor learned but "currently not broken" instead.

    I do give people a chance.
    But only one.
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    For damned sure, you can't BUY it. jocular
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    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    For damned sure, you can't BUY it. jocular
    You can so buy trusts!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've heard this.
    Well, of course you have. When it comes to two people, there will be two basic requirements.
    So, it must be both.

    Learning how to trust deals with you and your issues.
    Earning your trust deals with them and their issues.
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  12. #11  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Ok first, apologises if most of this sounds like waffle.

    I think we all trust naturally, it seems kind of instinctual. We have to trust others it part of the way we live, it's very difficult to live a modern and isolated lifestyle in this day and age. But trust, just like respect, is also earned. We may trust others to a certain degree because we have to and it's also part of being a confident person, but we each trust those more whom we have gotten to know and feel are worthy of trust, that have perhaps been there at times of difficulty or have equally been able to share or open up to us in similar manner. It's harder to trust people who are more guarded, because they are less vunerble and placing one's trust in somebody always makes you vunerable to some degree.

    Like many things in life we learn from experience, but there are certain types of people who perhaps seem more enigmatic, capable perhaps of showing different sides of their personality the closer someone may get. What it means is when it really comes down to it you can never truely completely know another person even after years together. Each of us a capable of do suprising things, this means that all trust is at least in some way taking a risk on another person.

    Trust is also a kind of test really, if you place your trust in someone and they let you down they have failed that test, so like with all tests there is no need to start with the highest levels, you start with something simple and work up to the more complicated stuff.

    Even the very basic levels are a test, we sit down at a bar and start to talk to the person next to you, now this is a test that you're a trusting them enough to respond in a polite and friendly manner, if they do then they pass the test and you may spark up an interesting conversation, however if for some reason you get a negative response then they have clearly failed the most basic of tests and you would simply not bother with them any further.

    I think though this kind of test is what we are always facing throughout life, another time a friend may ask you to help them out with something, again this is another test, they've placed their trust in you that you won't simply turn your back on them.

    But from the point of placing trust in others I think to start with you do need confidence in yourself, you need to know that you are a good person and a person worth knowing. Sometimes when you've been let down or hurt this can be harder to achieve, but it starts with the little things, and understanding that when people let you down it's not because there is anything wrong with you or you did anything wrong. Just simply that as people we are all flawed human beings, we will let others down at times, we will get things wrong and we make mistakes that's just the nature of being human.
    I think once we can't start to accept that we can also realise that doesn't happen all the time and won't happen everytime, we can start to take those small steps back towards trusting others and having faith in people again.

    Just the little things at first, perhaps being able to have a really nice conversation with someone who is also enjoying it can really help, then just starting to spend time with friends, people who enjoy your company. Then perhaps having the confidence to go and speak with stangers, these can all help to be able to trust people again. They will also help to build a more positive image of yourself so that you feel, once again, like the person that people don't want to let down.

    If you're the kind of person who cares about others, that will be there for them and can be trusted yourself then I think you will also expect that you can trust others, your view of other people will be a more hopeful and positive outlook on how they truely are, this will certainly help in learning to trust people again.
    No waffles. This was a work of art, you! Thank you for this. I really enjoyed it. It is very true, indeed. Most of my lack of trust comes from people hurting me. I didn't just decide one day to be this way. Well...then again, I choose to be this way...NOW. I guess that's the reality of it. Change starts from within. And it takes time. I appreciate you sharing this with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    I couldn't really say. Every interpersonal relationship I've ever had "family aside" has resulted in a detriment for myself. I either A: Get screwed over in some manner. B: Discover a highly undesirable idiosyncratic trait within the person. C: Get bored of the person. D: Manage to frustrate the individual with my "sometimes quaint" eccentric behaviors.
    I read this a few times, and thought...is this person me, but in a male form? hahaha! that's hilarious. (your problems aren't hilarious, that I could have written what you said, is) :=PPP
    I would add a fifth choice of course...I flee before I end up hurt.
    :/
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Trust is not required by me for many things, so mostly I don't actually need to trust people.
    But, when I do need to trust someone, I find trust to be neither earner nor learned but "currently not broken" instead.

    I do give people a chance.
    But only one.
    I also give people a chance, but in thinking things through...perhaps, I have given the wrong people a chance. I don't always choose wisely. That's on me. We have to ask ourselves, why do I keep attracting people who mistreat me? So, change with this type of thing comes in many forms. Thank you for your thoughts, Panda.
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    For damned sure, you can't BUY it. jocular
    it would be great if i could. :=PP

    @ Neverfly...I meant to add the quote here. Drats.
    I agree. And thank you for your insights. Very true, indeed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I also give people a chance, but in thinking things through...perhaps, I have given the wrong people a chance. I don't always choose wisely. That's on me. We have to ask ourselves, why do I keep attracting people who mistreat me? So, change with this type of thing comes in many forms. Thank you for your thoughts, Panda.
    Hey, we all make mistakes.
    The trick is to learn from them (which, unfortunately, can be really tricky).
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    I was betrayed by my first wife and I've never trusted anyone ever again. I won't trust anyone again because the pain of the betrayal is more than I could stand and it almost killed me. Love is blind and I was blinded by love which now I'll never share again. Trust must be earned and even then you can be betrayed because it happens every day.
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  15. #14  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I also give people a chance, but in thinking things through...perhaps, I have given the wrong people a chance. I don't always choose wisely. That's on me. We have to ask ourselves, why do I keep attracting people who mistreat me? So, change with this type of thing comes in many forms. Thank you for your thoughts, Panda.
    Hey, we all make mistakes.
    The trick is to learn from them (which, unfortunately, can be really tricky).
    and...if we learned from our 'mistakes,' maybe they weren't mistakes at all...
    hmmmmmm!
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    I was betrayed by my first wife and I've never trusted anyone ever again. I won't trust anyone again because the pain of the betrayal is more than I could stand and it almost killed me. Love is blind and I was blinded by love which now I'll never share again. Trust must be earned and even then you can be betrayed because it happens every day.
    i'm so sorry.

    this is my thinking currently. i try to change my thinking i do. but, i struggle to trust.
    i try...then, something the person does reminds me of something the person did who hurt me...and i'm out.

    dare i say...it's near automatic? i dont have to work hard at not trusting. lol!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    and...if we learned from our 'mistakes,' maybe they weren't mistakes at all...
    hmmmmmm!
    I'm not an advocate of "bad things happen to teach us things"*.
    It would require a 'force' that is capable enough to arrange all these bad things happening to billions of people, but is not capable enough to teach us without repeated suffering.
    A conflicting set of requirements.

    Bad things happen because a whole bunch of other things happen; some of those other things are within our control and some of them are not.

    *This is assuming I understood you correctly.
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  18. #17  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    I didn't mean any such thing.

    Deleted the rest as it doesn't really matter. I just don't take people's posts twist them then make them look stupid with something they never said to begin with. :/
    Last edited by wegs; August 13th, 2013 at 08:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    I was betrayed by my first wife and I've never trusted anyone ever again. I won't trust anyone again because the pain of the betrayal is more than I could stand and it almost killed me. Love is blind and I was blinded by love which now I'll never share again. Trust must be earned and even then you can be betrayed because it happens every day.
    Exactly what was meant by not being able to buy it. Even earned trust has been often lost. jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    and...if we learned from our 'mistakes,' maybe they weren't mistakes at all...hmmmmmm!
    One could say he or she thought they were wrong once, but they were mistaken. jocular
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    There is a difference between distrusting and being paranoid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    There is a difference between distrusting and being paranoid.
    Really! How big a difference is this? We seem universally to no longer adhere to "paranoia" as the "Untrue expectation that someone wishes to kill us", than the belief that paranoia represents the status quo. How can this be accounted for? joc
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    There is a difference between distrusting and being paranoid.
    Really! How big a difference is this? We seem universally to no longer adhere to "paranoia" as the "Untrue expectation that someone wishes to kill us", than the belief that paranoia represents the status quo. How can this be accounted for? joc
    In this topic, it refers to how people respond in a relationship.
    The difference being that being suspicious with paranoia is not the same as being suspicious with a justifiable cause.

    I'm sure almost everyone reading this thread has, at some point in their life, experienced someone that would accuse them whether they had a just reason for doing so or not. That's paranoid.

    There are certain cues that something may not be "all is well."
    Hiding cell phone, for example.
    But the response need not be instant accusation, but rather, calm confrontation and THAT is where one party learns how to trust.
    The other party must earn your trust- such as by showing the phone when calmly confronted and explaining you've been keeping the phone hidden because your two year old kiddo thinks it is a toy and messes it up with grubby fingers.

    Learning to trust means examining the whole picture objectively and thinking rationally and reasonably about probable benefit of the doubt.

    Husband is away on a business trip. He always calls you to check in by 9 pm.
    It's now 11pm, no phone call.
    He finally calls and you can either rail into him with accusations of shacking up with some hooker in a motel room or hear about how he was stuck on the stupid plane on the runway and cell phones were prohibited.
    She calls airline, checks his story- airline confirms or denies it.

    Unless you have a Valid Reason given for suspicion or accusation, do not bother your head with it. It will just mess up your mind, cause problems and won't be very productive.

    It's like the mail man. Unless you have a valid reason for thinking he's going to steal your mail, you don't run out the door screaming at him or accusing him if one day all you get is ads in your mailbox. You'll check with verifiable sources, first if something's due and not shown up. But most people give the mailman far, far more benefit of the doubt than they do their spouses. They fear the spouse but are not afraid of the mailman.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post

    It's like the mail man
    . Unless you have a valid reason for thinking he's going to steal your mail, you don't run out the door screaming at him or accusing him if one day all you get is ads in your mailbox. You'll check with verifiable sources, first if something's due and not shown up. But most people give the mailman far, far more benefit of the doubt than they do their spouses. They fear the spouse but are not afraid of the mailman.
    Ah, t'wasn't the mail man, but rather the milk man, who saw the possibilities and took advantage of the early hour.....he depended on the subversion of the wife's loyalties based upon her desire for seeking diversion, to provide him with the work "incentive" he so desperately needed! jocular
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    Nah, the milk man ran into me once when I headed out for work early.

    He started leaving the milk at the curb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I didn't mean any such thing.

    Deleted the rest as it doesn't really matter. I just don't take people's posts twist them then make them look stupid with something they never said to begin with. :/
    I didn't twist you post - I made an attempt at understanding your cryptic reply.
    I even mentioned that I was not certain that I had understood you correctly.

    You can snap at me if you wish, but you are doing it for no valid reason.

    The correct response should have been "No, that is not what I meant. What I actually meant was......".
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    and...if we learned from our 'mistakes,' maybe they weren't mistakes at all...hmmmmmm!
    One could say he or she thought they were wrong once, but they were mistaken. jocular
    One could say many things about what they wrote.
    But be careful - Wegs will get angry at you for even trying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Hiding cell phone, for example.
    But the response need not be instant accusation, but rather, calm confrontation and THAT is where one party learns how to trust.
    Been there, done that.
    It's hard to learn trust when said cell phone is full of text messages to/ from a guy she'd sworn she hadn't been in contact with for months...

    It's like the mail man. Unless you have a valid reason for thinking he's going to steal your mail
    Been there, done that.
    And in fact he wasn't: it was TWO mailmen stealing/ diverting my post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Without going into details, I was hurt by someone I once loved and trusted. Perhaps, one cannot fully love without trust. I'm over the ordeal, but the residue that remains is a significant inability for lack of a better word, to trust again.

    In discussing this with a friend, she said "you need to learn to trust again."
    I replied "isn't trust EARNED?"

    We talked a bit about it and I still came away wondering how to go about "learning" something that should come naturally, no? I think trust needs to be earned...otherwise we would invite a lot of mayhem into our lives, no? But she implied that it is something we must do.

    I was hopeful of getting some objective insight from you here, and I'd be interested in any advice you can give about trust. If you have had trust issues due to being betrayed in the past...how did you ever "learn" to trust again? I don't want to get hurt, again. I know that fear of being hurt again, drives the bus, so at least I'm aware of it, I guess.
    By letting go, and by listening to your heart AND your brain.

    Baby steps.

    We have all had betrayals at some time in our lives, but trusting again is a baby step proposition.

    But it works, and you can get that back.

    I am way too trusting. Daughter tells me that all the time. Spousy (my nickname for him) says I am too nice. Might be so, but that is who I am. When I am burned, and yes have been, I sit back and reflect, not just on their behavior but on MY behavior. I learn something twofold.

    I can't live without trust, as well as any one can. I can also forgive betrayal to a point.

    I am not perfect, nor do I demand that of others.

    I recently was burned and hurt by a friend of many many years. Do I hate them? No...I believe it is more utter hurt and disappointment......and it taught me a lesson, although one I really could have done without.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    If you have had trust issues due to being betrayed in the past...how did you ever "learn" to trust again?
    I didn't.
    And now I'm not even going to try.
    Why Sir Dywyddy? You are a cute little ornery duck! Why hang on to that anger?
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    I couldn't really say. Every interpersonal relationship I've ever had "family aside" has resulted in a detriment for myself. I either A: Get screwed over in some manner. B: Discover a highly undesirable idiosyncratic trait within the person. C: Get bored of the person. D: Manage to frustrate the individual with my "sometimes quaint" eccentric behaviors.
    My poor husband, whose family are arts clueless, marries a singer/actor...in theatre to boot, who is a Democrat on top of that which was eccentric. I also came from an Eastern European family who ate funny things and sang funny songs.. They didn't know what to do with me! Let's just say it was a struggle, and I was hurt many times, by him and his family, but I always stayed true to myself. I am amazed we are still together, although we actually only live together 5 months a year now.

    He calls being married to me, "an adventure", and we still butt heads, but it's ok.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Why Sir Dywyddy? You are a cute little ornery duck! Why hang on to that anger?
    Anger?
    Nah, just a refusal to enter into situations where the outcome is unlikely to be pleasant/ favourable.
    Last edited by Dywyddyr; August 14th, 2013 at 10:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Anger?
    Nah, just a refusal to enter into situations where the outcome is unlikely to be pleasant/ favourable.
    Unlikely?

    Hmmm... Is buying a car that type of situation? You have a choice, buy from someone that's the slick fast talking salesman and get screwed over or go to a reputable dealership with good reviews (Or even the honest home grown owner you picked out from craigslist).
    How about driving it? Taking some risks trusting other drivers, yourself and the road?
    See, you still do it. But after you grow up a little bit, you learn how to be smart about it.

    Every human being on this planet will screw you over a little bit. We live in our little monkeysphere's and that won't change just because someone's cute with kisses.

    I'm not saying we all are required to enter into relationships. But I am saying that we usually have little choice in the matter; we enter into them with doctors and salespeople and gobs of other people and don't think twice about it but when people start dating- suddenly their expectations skyrocket out of the stratosphere and into LaLaLand.
    They put on blinders, as well. So while they are discriminating against their insurance salesman and will take months to pick the right agent, they run off with the cutest jerk from the bar and then complain about the treatment received later.
    Last edited by Neverfly; August 14th, 2013 at 10:15 AM.
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    Well I was talking about a particular kind (class?) of relationship in my post.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    It is hard to not become cold, when you've been hurt a few times...I recently had some dealings with yet another liar. But, this time, I cut the 'friendship' off swiftly. Gave the benefit of the doubt a couple of times, but more lies surfaced...nope. Done. I will say though a lightbulb went off today. That we have to take each case, individually. I can't trust this man, doesn't mean I can't trust all men. So...progress! Yippee! Another thing too. It makes you tougher, and that's not such a bad thing. I was always kind of ''Pollyanna,'' but no more. I try to still be kind and caring, but if someone lies to me...I'm totally out. Tuned out forever. And, that is progress too. To not keep toxic people lingering around in hopes they will change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    There is a difference between distrusting and being paranoid.
    ...and what might that difference be?
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    Facepalm...

    Why do you guys keep asking this? Do I really have to explain it all out, again?

    Where is LucidDreaming when needed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    It is hard to not become cold, when you've been hurt a few times...
    Who said anything about "cold"?
    I just have limits on how close people get.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    There is a difference between distrusting and being paranoid.
    ...and what might that difference be?
    One starts with "d" and the other starts with "p".
    And that's just one example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Facepalm...Why do you guys keep asking this? Do I really have to explain it all out, again?Where is LucidDreaming when needed?
    The "mr green" smiley means I'm joking. Lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    It is hard to not become cold, when you've been hurt a few times...
    Who said anything about "cold"?I just have limits on how close people get.
    I was talking about me. I have moments when I've been cold after being lied to and such by ppl I thought I could trust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    The "mr green" smiley means I'm joking.
    Well...
    <sputter>
    Cut it out!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    It is hard to not become cold, when you've been hurt a few times...I recently had some dealings with yet another liar. But, this time, I cut the 'friendship' off swiftly. Gave the benefit of the doubt a couple of times, but more lies surfaced...nope. Done. I will say though a lightbulb went off today. That we have to take each case, individually. I can't trust this man, doesn't mean I can't trust all men. So...progress! Yippee! Another thing too. It makes you tougher, and that's not such a bad thing. I was always kind of ''Pollyanna,'' but no more. I try to still be kind and caring, but if someone lies to me...I'm totally out. Tuned out forever. And, that is progress too. To not keep toxic people lingering around in hopes they will change.
    I've just quickly read through this whole thread but this is where it really starts, in my opinion.

    I seem to recall you mentioning religion on a thread somewhere so I'm reasonably certain that you will have been raised with the indoctrination that 'most people are generally kind and well-intentioned' or at least that was rammed down my throat during the years that I was sent to church and taught Sunday School to the preschool children. I'm going to trust that no lasting harm comes to those kids for having listened to bible stories while in my care, lol.

    Your indoctrination may well be the attraction for 'the wrong types' as you call them for everyone knows that religious people are going to give you the benefit of the doubt because they are conditioned to do so.

    I am not for a moment suggesting that you give up your beliefs, whatever those may be, for you will reach your own conclusions over time as many others have also done. There is companionship and societal benefits to 'belonging' and religion is just one type of 'grouping'. What I am suggesting is that you become aware that this conditioning may be setting you up as a target for those who are less scrupulous in their dealings, i.e. the kind of people who prove to be unworthy of your trust.

    How to spot them? It's not too easy because some of them are both very engaging and skillful at manipulating others. You have some experience now, bought and paid for with tears and heartache, and you are becoming aware that you may in fact be too kind and approachable. My own approach is to still give everyone the benefit of the doubt but only give them small increments of trust so that if they fail me, I will not be greatly harmed.

    One example, slightly different, was a fellow in our neighborhood who was always in difficulty with others over money and commitments made. I did just fine with this fellow because whenever I needed some fencing lumber, he would get paid at the time of delivery and not before. I always paid cash and let him know if I did not have it by the date HE promised, he had better call me or the business was going elsewhere.

    That being said, I still would not loan him $20.00 on the street despite several transactions of hundreds of dollars each over the years, lol... It would be 'Meet me at home with x number of 2 x 6 x 12's and then he would get the money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I think trust needs to be earned...otherwise we would invite a lot of mayhem into our lives, no? But she implied that it is something we must do.
    In general terms, trust is placed.

    It stems from both the need and desire to be reliant on others. To put it simply, we may entrust object(s) or function onto others even when they haven't "earned" it, and yet it can be easily misplaced even if our evaluation of the people we place our trust in had once earned it. The need and desire to place trust is instrumental (if not a core element) to a society populated by social species. Highly social animals besides us are no different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    and...if we learned from our 'mistakes,' maybe they weren't mistakes at all...hmmmmmm!
    One could say he or she thought they were wrong once, but they were mistaken. jocular
    One could say many things about what they wrote.
    But be careful - Wegs will get angry at you for even trying.
    Fear another's anger in writing? Ha, I "co-mahnd it" jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I also came from an Eastern European family who ate funny things and sang funny songs.. They didn't know what to do with me! Let's just say it was a struggle, and I was hurt many times, by him and his family, but I always stayed true to myself. I am amazed we are still together, although we actually only live together 5 months a year now.
    Like this one? Good "oldie", Russian origin, I think. joc

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    I first want to thank you guys for taking the time to share with me your own experiences, and for your advice. You think very logically about things...I've always been fascinated by that, I tend to lead with my emotions. But, no more. I can honestly say -- I have healthy boundaries in place. In reading through your posts, something struck me as a common theme we all have, and that is betrayal to some degrees...pain to varying levels. You ever feel like you are alone in your feelings? In your situation? But, we're not. I don't 'know' any of you, but I can honestly say...you gave me great comfort tonight, reading all of this.

    It comes and goes, my feelings on trust. Unless I'm tested...I don't have to worry or think about it. It's when I start dating someone again...then, all of my trust issues well up again.

    I hope I can return the favor, should you ever need someone to listen to something you may have on your mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Why Sir Dywyddy? You are a cute little ornery duck! Why hang on to that anger?
    Anger?
    Nah, just a refusal to enter into situations where the outcome is unlikely to be pleasant/ favourable.
    I am the same, somewhat.

    It serves no purpose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I also came from an Eastern European family who ate funny things and sang funny songs.. They didn't know what to do with me! Let's just say it was a struggle, and I was hurt many times, by him and his family, but I always stayed true to myself. I am amazed we are still together, although we actually only live together 5 months a year now.
    Like this one? Good "oldie", Russian origin, I think. joc

    Heaven's to Betsy! I remember that song! *L* but I was thinking more along the lines of this..

    Na Planincah, and Polster Tanc (slovenian folk songs) - YouTube

    I can sing it too!
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    I've had an epiphany this morning, and it has been grand. I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another, especially with men. If I sense a game is being played for one minute, I'm done. No more discussion. No more excuses. There is an old saying but a very good one. If someone shows you who he/she is ...believe them the FIRST time. Yep. That's my new policy. I feel liberated this morning. Removed another person from my life who brought no value to it, except made me second guess myself. Nope, done with making excuses. This is why bad guys kept coming into my life. It was my fault, and now I see that I needed to make the change. Trust is developed only after one learns to trust herself. Thanks for listening!
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    You call that an epiphany?

    Methinks you know not what the word means...

    What you just described was a great way to close yourself off to reality while wallowing in paranoia. Hey, to each their own and all, but that just sounds like a self depreciating recipe, to me.

    At least you're not a court judge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another
    I decided to go on a killing spree for my epiphany
    But Dr. Who was on TV and then I forgot about it.
    But I did feel better afterwards!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    I decided to go on a killing spree for my epiphany
    But Dr. Who was on TV and then I forgot about it.
    But I did feel better afterwards!
    Living vicariously through Dralek.

    How's this for a more 'moderate' epiphany.
    Example:
    A girl feels frustrated because she's having car trouble and having trouble finding a mechanic she can trust.

    She wakes up and has an Epiphany and decides to just never trust any mechanic she even thinks may be pulling the wool over her eyes, which is interesting considering a likely bitter and jaded and untrusting view of mechanics... sounds like a great way to never get her car fixed.

    I don't know... call me crazy but... instead of taking the largely ineffective but very easy and lazy approach that will still leave one bitter and vulnerable... How about...
    Now, tell me if I'm just being wayyy too far out into the field here but...

    LEARN HOW THE FREAKING CAR WORKS!!!

    Yeah, it takes effort. So does anything else that's worth while. But you'll actually feel empowered and won't have to worry so much about trust issues since knowledge, communication and understanding are the choices of the day, instead of guesswork and suspicion without half a clue as to what the car is really doing.

    Then again, maybe this only applies to cars.

    When it comes to people- just assume what you want, decide you're infallible and could never have a misunderstanding or get the wrong end of the stick and leave people hanging with a "What the hell was that all about?" whenever the suspicion kicks on with people you're inclined to feel suspicious about.

    I think I like my way, better though. Plus, I get to tinker with the car in my own time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another
    I decided to go on a killing spree for my epiphany
    But Dr. Who was on TV and then I forgot about it.
    But I did feel better afterwards!
    this made me laugh out loud...really loud! you're great.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    I decided to go on a killing spree for my epiphany
    But Dr. Who was on TV and then I forgot about it.
    But I did feel better afterwards!
    Living vicariously through Dralek.

    How's this for a more 'moderate' epiphany.
    Example:
    A girl feels frustrated because she's having car trouble and having trouble finding a mechanic she can trust.

    She wakes up and has an Epiphany and decides to just never trust any mechanic she even thinks may be pulling the wool over her eyes, which is interesting considering a likely bitter and jaded and untrusting view of mechanics... sounds like a great way to never get her car fixed.

    I don't know... call me crazy but... instead of taking the largely ineffective but very easy and lazy approach that will still leave one bitter and vulnerable... How about...
    Now, tell me if I'm just being wayyy too far out into the field here but...

    LEARN HOW THE FREAKING CAR WORKS!!!

    Yeah, it takes effort. So does anything else that's worth while. But you'll actually feel empowered and won't have to worry so much about trust issues since knowledge, communication and understanding are the choices of the day, instead of guesswork and suspicion without half a clue as to what the car is really doing.

    Then again, maybe this only applies to cars.

    When it comes to people- just assume what you want, decide you're infallible and could never have a misunderstanding or get the wrong end of the stick and leave people hanging with a "What the hell was that all about?" whenever the suspicion kicks on with people you're inclined to feel suspicious about.

    I think I like my way, better though. Plus, I get to tinker with the car in my own time.
    I think you misunderstood. If someone treats me poorly...no, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt no mo! That's it. And what I mean by that, is if someone's actions feel like a game. I know the signs. Everyone has a bad day. Everyone makes mistakes. Not talking about that. I no longer make excuses for truly bad behavior that MAKES ME feel small. Don't rain on my epiphany! :=PP
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    and neverfly...I never said I was infallible. again, putting words in my mouth. you should stop that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I think you misunderstood. If someone treats me poorly...no, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt no mo! That's it. And what I mean by that, is if someone feels like a game. I know the signs. Everyone has a bad day. Everyone makes mistakes. Not talking about that. I no longer make excuses for truly bad behavior. Don't rain on my epiphany! :=PP
    Oh... very well, then. But stick to what you said here.

    I really do hope that you have better luck n the future and avoid the jerk offs that make the rest of us look bad. I could tell you some stories about S.G. and I when we first got together.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    and neverfly...I never said I was infallible. again, putting words in my mouth. you should stop that.
    Ah, you whine like a mule. It's better than the usual cork and duct tape.
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    if she gives you permission, please do! I know over the internet, it may come off as i'm jaded. i'm truly not. but largely, a lot of my problems have been self induced. meaning, I have given the benefit of the doubt to way too many. and that stops today. thus, my epiphany. it's not a new new lightbulb moment, but I never took action. i'm ready to do something about it, and that is to expect respect from people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    if she gives you permission, please do!
    Such is material for PM commo...
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I know over the internet, it may come off as i'm jaded.
    Believe me- you do.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    i'm truly not. but largely, a lot of my problems have been self induced. meaning, I have given the benefit of the doubt to way too many. and that stops today. thus, my epiphany. it's not a new new lightbulb moment, but I never took action. i'm ready to do something about it, and that is to expect respect from people.
    This is why the analogy of the Car and the Mechanic. While one must be vulnerable enough to trust others, there is wisdom in choosing whom to trust and earning that trust, as well.
    And it really is not something that is easily discussed in this medium. People can get a therapist and hash these things out with a professional for a long time, even.
    So- a few words put in your mouth- based on the "worst case scenario" - you see, I do not know you and do not trust you enough to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not jaded and bitter.
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    i don't know you well enough either i guess to determine why it is you feel the need to insult me. there's no reason to insult me. if you don't like this thread or me, you don't have to post in it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've had an epiphany this morning, and it has been grand. I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another, especially with men. If I sense a game is being played for one minute, I'm done. No more discussion. No more excuses. There is an old saying but a very good one. If someone shows you who he/she is ...believe them the FIRST time. Yep. That's my new policy. I feel liberated this morning. Removed another person from my life who brought no value to it, except made me second guess myself. Nope, done with making excuses. This is why bad guys kept coming into my life. It was my fault, and now I see that I needed to make the change. Trust is developed only after one learns to trust herself. Thanks for listening!
    I totally get where you are coming from and I am glad that you have realized the chink in your armor. I also was a Pollyanna and Florence Nightingale personality in my youth and was completely convinced that I could help/change/improve whatever was lacking in a partner through the sheer force of my strength and will. I nurtured several relationships in which my trust was betrayed in a variety of ways before I learned that, for me, the best relationships are those in which the partners are nearly equal in most regards and each remains independent in a variety of ways while within the relationship.

    One learns to share...time, resources, living space and intimacy...without becoming assimilated.

    Women are like apples, wegs. The sweetest apples grow the highest on the tree. Anybody can reach the lower boughs or settle for a windfall but if you want one of those sun kissed and sweetened apples, then one might have to do a bit of work to get it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've had an epiphany this morning, and it has been grand. I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another, especially with men. If I sense a game is being played for one minute, I'm done. No more discussion. No more excuses. There is an old saying but a very good one. If someone shows you who he/she is ...believe them the FIRST time. Yep. That's my new policy. I feel liberated this morning. Removed another person from my life who brought no value to it, except made me second guess myself. Nope, done with making excuses. This is why bad guys kept coming into my life. It was my fault, and now I see that I needed to make the change. Trust is developed only after one learns to trust herself. Thanks for listening!
    I totally get where you are coming from and I am glad that you have realized the chink in your armor. I also was a Pollyanna and Florence Nightingale personality in my youth and was completely convinced that I could help/change/improve whatever was lacking in a partner through the sheer force of my strength and will. I nurtured several relationships in which my trust was betrayed in a variety of ways before I learned that, for me, the best relationships are those in which the partners are nearly equal in most regards and each remains independent in a variety of ways while within the relationship.

    One learns to share...time, resources, living space and intimacy...without becoming assimilated.

    Women are like apples, wegs. The sweetest apples grow the highest on the tree. Anybody can reach the lower boughs or settle for a windfall but if you want one of those sun kissed and sweetened apples, then one might have to do a bit of work to get it.
    you are such a kind heart. you have a way with words. ok, I could fall in love with you. lol seriously though. really great insight. you articulated it much better than me. that's all I was trying to drive home. i'm well aware of my short comings. i'm not easy to get close to, after the different hurts I've experienced. i'm a work in progress, like the next person. but a key area I must change, is in not accepting bad behavior, and being able to recognize it quickly. thank you for your thoughts!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've had an epiphany this morning, and it has been grand. I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another, especially with men. If I sense a game is being played for one minute, I'm done. No more discussion. No more excuses. There is an old saying but a very good one. If someone shows you who he/she is ...believe them the FIRST time. Yep. That's my new policy. I feel liberated this morning. Removed another person from my life who brought no value to it, except made me second guess myself. Nope, done with making excuses. This is why bad guys kept coming into my life. It was my fault, and now I see that I needed to make the change. Trust is developed only after one learns to trust herself. Thanks for listening!
    I've always thought there is one rule when it comes to romance and that's if you're happy when you're with someone then it's working and if you're not then it isn't. Romance should always be fun or what's the point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Facepalm...Why do you guys keep asking this? Do I really have to explain it all out, again?Where is LucidDreaming when needed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    It is hard to not become cold, when you've been hurt a few times...
    Who said anything about "cold"?I just have limits on how close people get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've had an epiphany this morning, and it has been grand. I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another, especially with men. If I sense a game is being played for one minute, I'm done. No more discussion. No more excuses. There is an old saying but a very good one. If someone shows you who he/she is ...believe them the FIRST time. Yep. That's my new policy. I feel liberated this morning. Removed another person from my life who brought no value to it, except made me second guess myself. Nope, done with making excuses. This is why bad guys kept coming into my life. It was my fault, and now I see that I needed to make the change. Trust is developed only after one learns to trust herself. Thanks for listening!
    I've always thought there is one rule when it comes to romance and that's if you're happy when you're with someone then it's working and if you're not then it isn't. Romance should always be fun or what's the point.
    Yeppers! LolWhile I agree, when you're with the right person you will want to be patient when the chips are down. Things won't always be rainbows and lollipops, for sure.I think though without trust, it will be hard to even be open to the idea of love.I'm not going to worry about it; going to have a fun night out with friends tonight and just be happy. Life is too short to be fretting about what if's. Thanks for your thoughts! Hope u have a good weekend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've had an epiphany this morning, and it has been grand. I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another, especially with men. If I sense a game is being played for one minute, I'm done. No more discussion. No more excuses. There is an old saying but a very good one. If someone shows you who he/she is ...believe them the FIRST time. Yep. That's my new policy. I feel liberated this morning. Removed another person from my life who brought no value to it, except made me second guess myself. Nope, done with making excuses. This is why bad guys kept coming into my life. It was my fault, and now I see that I needed to make the change. Trust is developed only after one learns to trust herself. Thanks for listening!
    I've always thought there is one rule when it comes to romance and that's if you're happy when you're with someone then it's working and if you're not then it isn't. Romance should always be fun or what's the point.
    If I may be so bold as to perhaps expand upon your words...? Your choice of the words 'happy' and 'fun' are rather subjective for some people who do not experience those sensations as pronouncedly as others. A relationship is 'working' in my opinion, when you'd rather be with the one you're with through the good times and the tough times as well. A state of mutual trust and contentment does not imply a lack of adventure while a relationship with too much stimulation can quickly lead to exhaustion.

    Some people confuse 'new relationship energy' with 'love' and end up forever in search of 'the perfect relationship'. There is one advertisement by the 7th Day Adventists that always rings true with me...'Love isn't something you fall into. Love is something you grow.' Each person in any relationship continues to grow and change and over time, the relationship must also evolve. Sometimes that growth is enduring and sometimes it leads to a parting of the ways. There is no way of knowing without taking the journey and the sentiments of many is captured in the words that follow:

    From Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem In Memoriam:27, 1850:
    I hold it true, whate'er befall;
    I feel it, when I sorrow most;
    'Tis better to have loved and lost
    Than never to have loved at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    the sentiments of many is captured in the words that follow:

    From Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem In Memoriam:27, 1850:
    I hold it true, whate'er befall;
    I feel it, when I sorrow most;
    'Tis better to have loved and lost
    Than never to have loved at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    the sentiments of many is captured in the words that follow:

    From Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem In Memoriam:27, 1850:
    I hold it true, whate'er befall;
    I feel it, when I sorrow most;
    'Tis better to have loved and lost
    Than never to have loved at all.
    An excellent choice of video clip.

    While some loves lost may never be forgotten or replaced, it is only through the experiencing that we are able to plumb the full measure of our capacity for emotion, IMO.

    I sometimes wonder how many experiences we may be missing and completely unaware of their potential?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    An excellent choice of video clip.
    While some loves lost may never be forgotten or replaced, it is only through the experiencing that we are able to plumb the full measure of our capacity for emotion, IMO.
    I sometimes wonder how many experiences we may be missing and completely unaware of their potential?
    I just thought that the most excellent Mr. Jones (who displayed a completely unexpected ability for comedy in that film) managed to convey a whole world in those two words...
    Especially, at least as I saw it, a wish that, given the choice, he'd have rather not have plumbed the full measure.
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    Maybe for those of us challenged in this area, maybe we can take a course on how to overcome one's trust issues. Or how to fall in love or something. There are classes for everything these days ...why not this?

    Or maybe that's just called...therapy. O_o

    You are right Duck...Have we missed something along the way?

    I've often wondered...why is it better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all? If you never loved anyone ever, you wouldn't know any better.That saying mystifies me. I get it but I think love requires risk.It's the risk that scares me, not the love.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    i don't know you well enough either i guess to determine why it is you feel the need to insult me. there's no reason to insult me. if you don't like this thread or me, you don't have to post in it.
    This post makes no sense. You tell me I misunderstand a comment or put words in your mouth and then you turn around and post this.
    Nothing in my post was out of line - it was simply honest and direct. It did not address liking a person or disliking a person in ANY way. Nor do I see any "insult" made in that post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've often wondered...why is it better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all? If you never loved anyone ever, you wouldn't know any better.That saying mystifies me. I get it but I think love requires risk.It's the risk that scares me, not the love.
    Being cynical I could say that that saying is a(n attempted) justification.
    It's merely a way of making oneself feel better about a failed relationship. "Yeah it's over, but at least I had a relationship" 1.


    1 With possible overtones of "No one can say I'm sad loser who's always been single".
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've often wondered...why is it better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all? If you never loved anyone ever, you wouldn't know any better.That saying mystifies me. I get it but I think love requires risk.It's the risk that scares me, not the love.
    Being cynical I could say that that saying is a(n attempted) justification.
    It's merely a way of making oneself feel better about a failed relationship. "Yeah it's over, but at least I had a relationship" 1.

    1 With possible overtones of "No one can say I'm sad loser who's always been single".
    Interesting...

    I do not interpret the saying that way at all.

    The emotion that we call by the name of 'romantic love' lends one the sensation of being vitally alive and engaged. All senses are turned toward the beloved one and all things seem possible to those who are deeply in love. Time in each others' company flies by while absence drags on as an eternity and prior to cell phones and voice mail, one would be fearful of leaving the house lest a call was missed.

    Love is a profound addiction and until one has experienced it, one cannot comprehend just how fine the line between pleasure and pain can be because you will feel so good that it actually hurts, lol... I believe more words in song, poetry and prose have been written about love than about any other topic, religions included.

    Love is the pinnacle of the human condition, IMO, and sadly, some do not allow themselves to experience it, possibly out of fear of surrendering that illusion of control that most of us are fond of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    The emotion that we call by the name of 'romantic love' lends one the sensation of being vitally alive and engaged.
    Yeah, so does finding a previously undiscovered mathematical relationship.

    And "better to have loved and..." is a variation (with a reversal) of "sour grapes".
    Instead of "I can't have them but I don't care because they're probably sour anyway" it's "Well I don't actually have it now, but boy was was wonderful when I did have it".
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    I loved and I cried.
    Then I loved and I cried.
    Then I loved and I cried all over again.
    Over the years
    I'd forgotten the tears.
    and was left with the memories of love.
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    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've had an epiphany this morning, and it has been grand. I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another, especially with men. If I sense a game is being played for one minute, I'm done. No more discussion. No more excuses. There is an old saying but a very good one. If someone shows you who he/she is ...believe them the FIRST time. Yep. That's my new policy. I feel liberated this morning. Removed another person from my life who brought no value to it, except made me second guess myself. Nope, done with making excuses. This is why bad guys kept coming into my life. It was my fault, and now I see that I needed to make the change. Trust is developed only after one learns to trust herself. Thanks for listening!
    Happy for you.

    I do this in every aspect of my life, including this forum! If someone is demeaning they go into the bin, and it isn't difficult to discern the difference between being silly (funny) and rude. There are enough negatives in life without INVITING more in!

    Works for me. I love making people laugh and laughing WITH people, not at them.

    Glad you got to this point!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandali View Post
    I loved and I cried.
    Then I loved and I cried.
    Then I loved and I cried all over again.
    Over the years
    I'd forgotten the tears.
    and was left with the memories of love.
    Damn!! That made me...nah it didn't!

    But lovely thought.....think I have read it somewhere before!
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I do this in every aspect of my life, including this forum! If someone is demeaning they go into the bin, and it isn't difficult to discern the difference between being silly (funny) and rude.
    Demeaning and rude people don't bother me... But anti-scientific cranks that throw a hissy fit when someone has the audacity to offer correction for their errors do bother me. Especially when they then use that correction to claim someone was demeaning in at least five or more posts since their original hissy fit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    i don't know you well enough either i guess to determine why it is you feel the need to insult me. there's no reason to insult me. if you don't like this thread or me, you don't have to post in it.
    This post makes no sense. You tell me I misunderstand a comment or put words in your mouth and then you turn around and post this.
    Nothing in my post was out of line - it was simply honest and direct. It did not address liking a person or disliking a person in ANY way. Nor do I see any "insult" made in that post.
    ok

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've often wondered...why is it better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all? If you never loved anyone ever, you wouldn't know any better.That saying mystifies me. I get it but I think love requires risk.It's the risk that scares me, not the love.
    Being cynical I could say that that saying is a(n attempted) justification.
    It's merely a way of making oneself feel better about a failed relationship. "Yeah it's over, but at least I had a relationship" 1.


    1 With possible overtones of "No one can say I'm sad loser who's always been single".
    you know what? there's nothing wrong with being single. nothing at all. this notion that we have to be with someone is ridiculous. i date a lot, it can be fun. when it comes to love, i get frightened. it isn't love...it's the risk that love involves. i have a feeling we are not alone in our sentiments. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've often wondered...why is it better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all? If you never loved anyone ever, you wouldn't know any better.That saying mystifies me. I get it but I think love requires risk.It's the risk that scares me, not the love.
    Being cynical I could say that that saying is a(n attempted) justification.
    It's merely a way of making oneself feel better about a failed relationship. "Yeah it's over, but at least I had a relationship" 1.

    1 With possible overtones of "No one can say I'm sad loser who's always been single".
    Interesting...

    I do not interpret the saying that way at all.

    The emotion that we call by the name of 'romantic love' lends one the sensation of being vitally alive and engaged. All senses are turned toward the beloved one and all things seem possible to those who are deeply in love. Time in each others' company flies by while absence drags on as an eternity and prior to cell phones and voice mail, one would be fearful of leaving the house lest a call was missed.

    Love is a profound addiction and until one has experienced it, one cannot comprehend just how fine the line between pleasure and pain can be because you will feel so good that it actually hurts, lol... I believe more words in song, poetry and prose have been written about love than about any other topic, religions included.

    Love is the pinnacle of the human condition, IMO, and sadly, some do not allow themselves to experience it, possibly out of fear of surrendering that illusion of control that most of us are fond of.
    again, you have a wonderful way with words, and this gets me to think. it's true, too. even in the beginning of love that i've lost, it was a most thrilling feeling. one that i can't articulate even, with the right words. but it leaves one very vulnerable.

    i went out tonight with some friends, and they all know me pretty well. we talked about this. one of them said, that they feel my childhood is what's led me to not trust men. it's not men, really at all, that i have a problem with, but rather an upbringing that was pretty unpleasant. everyone has a story i know, but this person was right. it isn't men per se, that i distrust. it's that men represent love, in my eyes. it's love that i both perhaps want, but also fear. if this makes sense, i don't know. i have had some tequila while i was out earlier, tonight. 0_o


    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    The emotion that we call by the name of 'romantic love' lends one the sensation of being vitally alive and engaged.
    Yeah, so does finding a previously undiscovered mathematical relationship.
    you say adorable things, duck, you know that? haha

    And "better to have loved and..." is a variation (with a reversal) of "sour grapes".
    Instead of "I can't have them but I don't care because they're probably sour anyway" it's "Well I don't actually have it now, but boy was was wonderful when I did have it".
    interesting, i don't liken the sentiment to sour grapes. i think whoever came up with that 'slogan,' actually believed it. actually believed that if you go through life never loving...then, maybe that is your fault. maybe that is a life that was spent on the bench, instead of in the game. omg, this is just dawning on me as i'm typing it. ugh. that's what it means! it means that if you go through life never loving, it's your fault!

    holy shit.

    and that is why it's better to have loved and lost, because only then, will you have really LIVED.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandali View Post
    I loved and I cried.
    Then I loved and I cried.
    Then I loved and I cried all over again.
    Over the years
    I'd forgotten the tears.
    and was left with the memories of love.
    this is really a pretty poem, thank you for posting it.
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've had an epiphany this morning, and it has been grand. I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another, especially with men. If I sense a game is being played for one minute, I'm done. No more discussion. No more excuses. There is an old saying but a very good one. If someone shows you who he/she is ...believe them the FIRST time. Yep. That's my new policy. I feel liberated this morning. Removed another person from my life who brought no value to it, except made me second guess myself. Nope, done with making excuses. This is why bad guys kept coming into my life. It was my fault, and now I see that I needed to make the change. Trust is developed only after one learns to trust herself. Thanks for listening!
    Happy for you.

    I do this in every aspect of my life, including this forum! If someone is demeaning they go into the bin, and it isn't difficult to discern the difference between being silly (funny) and rude. There are enough negatives in life without INVITING more in!

    Works for me. I love making people laugh and laughing WITH people, not at them.

    Glad you got to this point!
    hello you, i appreciate you posting. you strike me as you would be so much fun. and that you live your life, you don't run from risk. as i sort through all this with you all, i'm realizing that it's up to me to face the real issue...and that is...to face that all potentially good things, might have attached to them, some risk. but no risk, no potential gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I do this in every aspect of my life, including this forum! If someone is demeaning they go into the bin, and it isn't difficult to discern the difference between being silly (funny) and rude.
    Demeaning and rude people don't bother me... But anti-scientific cranks that throw a hissy fit when someone has the audacity to offer correction for their errors do bother me. Especially when they then use that correction to claim someone was demeaning in at least five or more posts since their original hissy fit.
    hahaha i didn't throw a hissy fit. you are SO being silly, now. :=PP
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    i don't know you well enough either i guess to determine why it is you feel the need to insult me. there's no reason to insult me. if you don't like this thread or me, you don't have to post in it.
    This post makes no sense. You tell me I misunderstand a comment or put words in your mouth and then you turn around and post this.
    Nothing in my post was out of line - it was simply honest and direct. It did not address liking a person or disliking a person in ANY way. Nor do I see any "insult" made in that post.
    ok

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've often wondered...why is it better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all? If you never loved anyone ever, you wouldn't know any better.That saying mystifies me. I get it but I think love requires risk.It's the risk that scares me, not the love.
    Being cynical I could say that that saying is a(n attempted) justification.
    It's merely a way of making oneself feel better about a failed relationship. "Yeah it's over, but at least I had a relationship" 1.


    1 With possible overtones of "No one can say I'm sad loser who's always been single".
    you know what? there's nothing wrong with being single. nothing at all. this notion that we have to be with someone is ridiculous. i date a lot, it can be fun. when it comes to love, i get frightened. it isn't love...it's the risk that love involves. i have a feeling we are not alone in our sentiments. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've often wondered...why is it better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all? If you never loved anyone ever, you wouldn't know any better.That saying mystifies me. I get it but I think love requires risk.It's the risk that scares me, not the love.
    Being cynical I could say that that saying is a(n attempted) justification.
    It's merely a way of making oneself feel better about a failed relationship. "Yeah it's over, but at least I had a relationship" 1.

    1 With possible overtones of "No one can say I'm sad loser who's always been single".
    Interesting...

    I do not interpret the saying that way at all.

    The emotion that we call by the name of 'romantic love' lends one the sensation of being vitally alive and engaged. All senses are turned toward the beloved one and all things seem possible to those who are deeply in love. Time in each others' company flies by while absence drags on as an eternity and prior to cell phones and voice mail, one would be fearful of leaving the house lest a call was missed.

    Love is a profound addiction and until one has experienced it, one cannot comprehend just how fine the line between pleasure and pain can be because you will feel so good that it actually hurts, lol... I believe more words in song, poetry and prose have been written about love than about any other topic, religions included.

    Love is the pinnacle of the human condition, IMO, and sadly, some do not allow themselves to experience it, possibly out of fear of surrendering that illusion of control that most of us are fond of.
    again, you have a wonderful way with words, and this gets me to think. it's true, too. even in the beginning of love that i've lost, it was a most thrilling feeling. one that i can't articulate even, with the right words. but it leaves one very vulnerable.

    i went out tonight with some friends, and they all know me pretty well. we talked about this. one of them said, that they feel my childhood is what's led me to not trust men. it's not men, really at all, that i have a problem with, but rather an upbringing that was pretty unpleasant. everyone has a story i know, but this person was right. it isn't men per se, that i distrust. it's that men represent love, in my eyes. it's love that i both perhaps want, but also fear. if this makes sense, i don't know. i have had some tequila while i was out earlier, tonight. 0_o


    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    The emotion that we call by the name of 'romantic love' lends one the sensation of being vitally alive and engaged.
    Yeah, so does finding a previously undiscovered mathematical relationship.
    you say adorable things, duck, you know that? haha

    And "better to have loved and..." is a variation (with a reversal) of "sour grapes".
    Instead of "I can't have them but I don't care because they're probably sour anyway" it's "Well I don't actually have it now, but boy was was wonderful when I did have it".
    interesting, i don't liken the sentiment to sour grapes. i think whoever came up with that 'slogan,' actually believed it. actually believed that if you go through life never loving...then, maybe that is your fault. maybe that is a life that was spent on the bench, instead of in the game. omg, this is just dawning on me as i'm typing it. ugh. that's what it means! it means that if you go through life never loving, it's your fault!

    holy shit.

    and that is why it's better to have loved and lost, because only then, will you have really LIVED.

    Quote Originally Posted by mandali View Post
    I loved and I cried.
    Then I loved and I cried.
    Then I loved and I cried all over again.
    Over the years
    I'd forgotten the tears.
    and was left with the memories of love.
    this is really a pretty poem, thank you for posting it.
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    I've had an epiphany this morning, and it has been grand. I have decided that I will no longer tolerate for a MINUTE, behavior that I would not exhibit to another, especially with men. If I sense a game is being played for one minute, I'm done. No more discussion. No more excuses. There is an old saying but a very good one. If someone shows you who he/she is ...believe them the FIRST time. Yep. That's my new policy. I feel liberated this morning. Removed another person from my life who brought no value to it, except made me second guess myself. Nope, done with making excuses. This is why bad guys kept coming into my life. It was my fault, and now I see that I needed to make the change. Trust is developed only after one learns to trust herself. Thanks for listening!
    Happy for you.

    I do this in every aspect of my life, including this forum! If someone is demeaning they go into the bin, and it isn't difficult to discern the difference between being silly (funny) and rude. There are enough negatives in life without INVITING more in!

    Works for me. I love making people laugh and laughing WITH people, not at them.

    Glad you got to this point!
    hello you, i appreciate you posting. you strike me as you would be so much fun. and that you live your life, you don't run from risk. as i sort through all this with you all, i'm realizing that it's up to me to face the real issue...and that is...to face that all potentially good things, might have attached to them, some risk. but no risk, no potential gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I do this in every aspect of my life, including this forum! If someone is demeaning they go into the bin, and it isn't difficult to discern the difference between being silly (funny) and rude.
    Demeaning and rude people don't bother me... But anti-scientific cranks that throw a hissy fit when someone has the audacity to offer correction for their errors do bother me. Especially when they then use that correction to claim someone was demeaning in at least five or more posts since their original hissy fit.
    hahaha i didn't throw a hissy fit. you are SO being silly, now. :=PP
    Well I am fun. I spend a lot of time laughing. There are enough things in life that throw you, so I believe in looking at the positives whenever possible. Sometimes, you have to sit down with the negatives however.

    We are only here one time. I intend to enjoy it.

    I try to surround myself with people who find joy in living, and a positive in everything. If people want to be negative all the time, I simply don't need them in my life.

    I intend to have as few as possible regrets in life, though we all will have some. It is inevitable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    ok
    You could clarify what you thought was insulting... I cannot work on it if I do not know what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    you know what? there's nothing wrong with being single. nothing at all.
    This is very true.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    and that is why it's better to have loved and lost, because only then, will you have really LIVED.
    Also true. I, for one, am a strong believer in being more than just alive- but living.
    It is interesting watching you work through it all as you go...
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    hahaha i didn't throw a hissy fit. you are SO being silly, now. :=PP
    Not you. The member "Babe" did in another thread and has, in my opinion, repeatedly made a dramatic showing of it since then by bringing it up unnecessarily in multiple threads.
    I finally got tired of it and told her off in that post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    ok
    You could clarify what you thought was insulting... I cannot work on it if I do not know what it is.
    it doesn't matter. don't worry about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    you know what? there's nothing wrong with being single. nothing at all.
    This is very true.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    and that is why it's better to have loved and lost, because only then, will you have really LIVED.
    Also true. I, for one, am a strong believer in being more than just alive- but living.
    It is interesting watching you work through it all as you go...
    it has helped chatting about it with all of you...logical thinkers. sometimes, i 'think' with my emotions. i admit it.
    some of you are TOO logical though. present company...INCLUDED.
    hehe
    but thank you for your help, as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    hahaha i didn't throw a hissy fit. you are SO being silly, now. :=PP
    Not you. The member "Babe" did in another thread and has, in my opinion, repeatedly made a dramatic showing of it since then by bringing it up unnecessarily in multiple threads.
    I finally got tired of it and told her off in that post.
    oh i see. might she have been talking about YOU? things that make you go hmmm!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    it doesn't matter. don't worry about it.
    If you insist...

    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    i 'think' with my emotions. i admit it.
    I, as well. Far more often than I care to admit.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    but thank you for your help, as well.
    In my more gruff and not always pleasant way... But I do not believe examinations are always pleasant.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    oh i see. might she have been talking about YOU?
    Oh, no doubt. She also talked of it in the chat box. Both her and I were wrong to bring it up in this thread, however... so we should drop this tangent.
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    Originally posted by wegs:

    interesting, i don't liken the sentiment to sour grapes. i think whoever came up with that 'slogan,' actually believed it. actually believed that if you go through life never loving...then, maybe that is your fault. maybe that is a life that was spent on the bench, instead of in the game. omg, this is just dawning on me as i'm typing it. ugh. that's what it means! it means that if you go through life never loving, it's your fault!

    holy shit.

    and that is why it's better to have loved and lost, because only then, will you have really LIVED.
    Tequila was also my drink of choice when I was your age. As long as one drinks it with respect, it is an awesome medium to dance the night away on and it has an entirely different effect on one's thought processes that other hard liquor in my experience.

    Yes, the experience of love, even that of love lost, is an experience of intense personal growth. Rather like a smile, love is not diminished by giving it away. Although there will be times in life when you may be absolutely certain that you can never trust...feel...love again...you are probably wrong. I say probably because there are a number of identified conditions in which people do not experience emotions in the same manner as the current majority of people. By what you post, I strongly suspect that you are not unlike myself and others in this regard and so I suggest that you will never run out of love but you will become more discerning of whom you will share it with.

    I also agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being single and that for many people, it might be the most desirable state. Until one knows oneself, one will be quite confused and confusing in any relationship.

    Thank you for sharing your feelings as you move through this stage of your journey, wegs. You remind me so much of myself at your age. Here is a 'Tequila song' for the ladies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Originally posted by wegs:

    interesting, i don't liken the sentiment to sour grapes. i think whoever came up with that 'slogan,' actually believed it. actually believed that if you go through life never loving...then, maybe that is your fault. maybe that is a life that was spent on the bench, instead of in the game. omg, this is just dawning on me as i'm typing it. ugh. that's what it means! it means that if you go through life never loving, it's your fault!

    holy shit.

    Tequila!!! *L* Dang.I can't do that stuff!! I dance on tables!

    and that is why it's better to have loved and lost, because only then, will you have really LIVED.
    Tequila was also my drink of choice when I was your age. As long as one drinks it with respect, it is an awesome medium to dance the night away on and it has an entirely different effect on one's thought processes that other hard liquor in my experience.

    Yes, the experience of love, even that of love lost, is an experience of intense personal growth. Rather like a smile, love is not diminished by giving it away. Although there will be times in life when you may be absolutely certain that you can never trust...feel...love again...you are probably wrong. I say probably because there are a number of identified conditions in which people do not experience emotions in the same manner as the current majority of people. By what you post, I strongly suspect that you are not unlike myself and others in this regard and so I suggest that you will never run out of love but you will become more discerning of whom you will share it with.

    I also agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being single and that for many people, it might be the most desirable state. Until one knows oneself, one will be quite confused and confusing in any relationship.

    Thank you for sharing your feelings as you move through this stage of your journey, wegs. You remind me so much of myself at your age. Here is a 'Tequila song' for the ladies...

    Tequila!!! *L* Dang.I can't do that stuff!! I dance on tables!
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    Originally posted by babe:

    Tequila!!! *L* Dang.I can't do that stuff!! I dance on tables!
    As I mentioned...it's quite different in it's effect than most other hard liquor. You might want to increase your personal liability if you are going to indulge. Furniture repair adds considerable to one's bar tab, lol...
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    Yes, examination/self discovery, isn't always pleasant...but in order to cleanse one's self of toxic thinking, it's necessary.
    It's just a bad feeling to know that much of what you're aching about, has been self induced. you know?

    Like, not trusting people...has come from me. Yes, there are 'bad' guys out there, that I've had the misfortune of running across, but to keep choosing bad guys, is on me.

    Sometimes, we choose that which is familiar, even if it's not 'good' for us.

    It reminds me of the book Who Moved My Cheese, by Spencer Johnson. Ever read that, neverfly? I should reread it.
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    [QUOTE=babe;451633][QUOTE=scheherazade;451632]
    Originally posted by wegs:

    Tequila!!! *L* Dang.I can't do that stuff!! I dance on tables!
    hahaha! you make me laugh, babe. o yes, lots of dancing went on earlier tonight. tequila is not something i drink often...at all. but, i caved to peer pressure. haha

    Tequila was also my drink of choice when I was your age. As long as one drinks it with respect, it is an awesome medium to dance the night away on and it has an entirely different effect on one's thought processes that other hard liquor in my experience.

    Yes, the experience of love, even that of love lost, is an experience of intense personal growth. Rather like a smile, love is not diminished by giving it away. Although there will be times in life when you may be absolutely certain that you can never trust...feel...love again...you are probably wrong. I say probably because there are a number of identified conditions in which people do not experience emotions in the same manner as the current majority of people. By what you post, I strongly suspect that you are not unlike myself and others in this regard and so I suggest that you will never run out of love but you will become more discerning of whom you will share it with.

    I also agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being single and that for many people, it might be the most desirable state. Until one knows oneself, one will be quite confused and confusing in any relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Originally posted by babe:

    Tequila!!! *L* Dang.I can't do that stuff!! I dance on tables!
    As I mentioned...it's quite different in it's effect than most other hard liquor. You might want to increase your personal liability if you are going to indulge. Furniture repair adds considerable to one's bar tab, lol...
    lol!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Yes, examination/self discovery, isn't always pleasant...but in order to cleanse one's self of toxic thinking, it's necessary.
    It's just a bad feeling to know that much of what you're aching about, has been self induced. you know?
    See... I don't know. It seems a bit different to me. The vast majority of issues and stresses I've had to deal with were self induced or at least a great deal of it had to do with me.
    It's easier to examine other people than yourself. A lot easier. I wouldn't have had the courage to talk about it this kind of thing on here openly as you have.
    But you can't deny it's a bit liberating, as well- to realize the control you can actually exert.
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    It reminds me of the book Who Moved My Cheese, by Spencer Johnson. Ever read that, neverfly? I should reread it.
    <chuckle> A book I've never had the fortune of reading- only hearing a lot about from many people. I'll take your statement as an added recommendation to read that book.
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    i used to blame my inability to multiquote on my cell phone, now i'm thinking it's just me. :/
    i'm on my laptop right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Yes, examination/self discovery, isn't always pleasant...but in order to cleanse one's self of toxic thinking, it's necessary.
    It's just a bad feeling to know that much of what you're aching about, has been self induced. you know?

    Like, not trusting people...has come from me. Yes, there are 'bad' guys out there, that I've had the misfortune of running across, but to keep choosing bad guys, is on me.

    Sometimes, we choose that which is familiar, even if it's not 'good' for us.

    It reminds me of the book Who Moved My Cheese, by Spencer Johnson. Ever read that, neverfly? I should reread it.
    I think there is truth to that!....patterns that are comfortable are often repeated!

    I have always gone by this philosophy which drives my husband nuts sometimes.

    I believe most people are good, and that is how I treat them till proven wrong! Of course, I am not saying you take them home with you, etc. I am just saying that I try to look at people positively in every aspect of my life.
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    [QUOTE=wegs;451640][QUOTE=babe;451633]
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Originally posted by wegs:

    Tequila!!! *L* Dang.I can't do that stuff!! I dance on tables!
    hahaha! you make me laugh, babe. o yes, lots of dancing went on earlier tonight. tequila is not something i drink often...at all. but, i caved to peer pressure. haha

    Tequila was also my drink of choice when I was your age. As long as one drinks it with respect, it is an awesome medium to dance the night away on and it has an entirely different effect on one's thought processes that other hard liquor in my experience.

    Yes, the experience of love, even that of love lost, is an experience of intense personal growth. Rather like a smile, love is not diminished by giving it away. Although there will be times in life when you may be absolutely certain that you can never trust...feel...love again...you are probably wrong. I say probably because there are a number of identified conditions in which people do not experience emotions in the same manner as the current majority of people. By what you post, I strongly suspect that you are not unlike myself and others in this regard and so I suggest that you will never run out of love but you will become more discerning of whom you will share it with.

    I also agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being single and that for many people, it might be the most desirable state. Until one knows oneself, one will be quite confused and confusing in any relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Originally posted by babe:

    Tequila!!! *L* Dang.I can't do that stuff!! I dance on tables!
    As I mentioned...it's quite different in it's effect than most other hard liquor. You might want to increase your personal liability if you are going to indulge. Furniture repair adds considerable to one's bar tab, lol...
    lol!
    You don't understand! *L* I dance ON TOP of the bar and tables! *L*.....I haven't had tequila, oh my god...since...my gf begged me to have one with her .....I had one!! *L*...

    There is NOTHING WRONG with being single at all!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    i used to blame my inability to multiquote on my cell phone, now i'm thinking it's just me. :/
    i'm on my laptop right now.
    SO am I. and equally guilty!
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    @ neverfly, thank you for that. that's very nice of you.
    ok
    you asked earlier, a few posts back...as to how you insulted me earlier today. (or how i perceived it)

    and i will tell you now.
    compare how you are 'delivering' your message NOW, as opposed to earlier today. MUCH better, NOW. lol

    I certainly don't get offended when people speak the truth to me, even if it's unpleasant for me to hear. BUT. It's all in the delivery.

    Does that help?
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Yes, examination/self discovery, isn't always pleasant...but in order to cleanse one's self of toxic thinking, it's necessary.
    It's just a bad feeling to know that much of what you're aching about, has been self induced. you know?

    Like, not trusting people...has come from me. Yes, there are 'bad' guys out there, that I've had the misfortune of running across, but to keep choosing bad guys, is on me.

    Sometimes, we choose that which is familiar, even if it's not 'good' for us.

    It reminds me of the book Who Moved My Cheese, by Spencer Johnson. Ever read that, neverfly? I should reread it.
    I think there is truth to that!....patterns that are comfortable are often repeated!

    I have always gone by this philosophy which drives my husband nuts sometimes.

    I believe most people are good, and that is how I treat them till proven wrong! Of course, I am not saying you take them home with you, etc. I am just saying that I try to look at people positively in every aspect of my life.
    You and your husband sound very happy, babe.

    I do employ that philosophy, too...but, sometimes, I see the warning signs with people...and KNOW I should avoid them, or sever the ties, and I keep giving the benefit of the doubt. That actually has changed.

    Pain is often a wonderful teacher...we never forget the lesson, eh? lol
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    [QUOTE=wegs;451651]
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Yes, examination/self discovery, isn't always pleasant...but in order to cleanse one's self of toxic thinking, it's necessary.
    It's just a bad feeling to know that much of what you're aching about, has been self induced. you know?

    Like, not trusting people...has come from me. Yes, there are 'bad' guys out there, that I've had the misfortune of running across, but to keep choosing bad guys, is on me.

    Sometimes, we choose that which is familiar, even if it's not 'good' for us.

    It reminds me of the book Who Moved My Cheese, by Spencer Johnson. Ever read that, neverfly? I should reread it.
    I think there is truth to that!....patterns that are comfortable are often repeated!

    I have always gone by this philosophy which drives my husband nuts sometimes.

    I believe most people are good, and that is how I treat them till proven wrong! Of course, I am not saying you take them home with you, etc. I am just saying that I try to look at people positively in every aspect of my life.
    You and your husband sound very happy, babe.

    I do employ that philosophy, too...but, sometimes, I see the warning signs with people...and KNOW I should avoid them, or sever the ties, and I keep giving the benefit of the doubt. That actually has changed.

    Pain is often a wonderful teacher...we never forget the lesson, eh? lol[/QUOTE

    *laughing* Sometimes and sometimes not!

    I have threatened to have cement boots made for him and sink him if he doesn't stop pissing me off! *L*


    it is difficult to sever ties sometimes but healthier in the end!

    Sometimes, we never forget a little part of that pain, which might be healthy if you don't DWELL on it!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    It's all in the delivery.

    Does that help?
    No, I do not agree. It's not delivery.

    It's DiGiorno.
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    In my observation, neverfly's delivery, not unlike that of a certain duck, is frequently a bit 'challenging' and is becoming somewhat more understandable to me by what these individuals have posted on a number of other threads. The line of questioning that they bring to these discussions does have the value of provoking one to examine other perspectives beyond the one of the present emotion and moment.

    Laters all...time to dash...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    It's all in the delivery.

    Does that help?
    No, I do not agree. It's not delivery.

    It's DiGiorno.
    was your first sentence ever uttered...'i do not agree!'


    << runs and hides
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    In my observation, neverfly's delivery, not unlike that of a certain duck, is frequently a bit 'challenging' and is becoming somewhat more understandable to me by what these individuals have posted on a number of other threads. The line of questioning that they bring to these discussions does have the value of provoking one to examine other perspectives beyond the one of the present emotion and moment.

    Laters all...time to dash...
    i agree, but that type of 'delivery' has never worked with me. bosses, relationships, friends...anyone who talks AT me, i tend to not hear the message. doesn't have to be candy coated, but tact goes a long way.

    i'm heading to bed too...holy cow, it's late here. 0_o

    Thanks for chatting with me ladies & gents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post

    was your first sentence ever uttered...'i do not agree!'


    << runs and hides
    I was actually quiet and sweet as a child. I avoided conflict. Was very easy going.
    As I got older, and got bullied more, I began to slowly change and by the time I reached High School, sophomore and junior year I was pretty gruff, hard nosed and often accused of being mean, looking mean, etc. Not many people get to know me. Those that do usually begin to see what lays beneath the grumpy exterior- same as Dywyddyr, as Scheherazade mentioned... It limits the amount of Buffoons that will invade my space, truth told and I consider it an advantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    In my observation, neverfly's delivery, not unlike that of a certain duck, is frequently a bit 'challenging' and is becoming somewhat more understandable to me by what these individuals have posted on a number of other threads. The line of questioning that they bring to these discussions does have the value of provoking one to examine other perspectives beyond the one of the present emotion and moment.
    I had told Jocular that I wanted to adopt him and move him in with us. I was quite serious, too. If I could, I would. I'd sign papers and take over parental rights.
    But a while back, I misconstrued something he had said to me and responded, quite politely and politically correctly with "Bite Me!"

    Fortunately, he took it in stride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    In my observation, neverfly's delivery, not unlike that of a certain duck, is frequently a bit 'challenging' and is becoming somewhat more understandable to me by what these individuals have posted on a number of other threads. The line of questioning that they bring to these discussions does have the value of provoking one to examine other perspectives beyond the one of the present emotion and moment.

    Laters all...time to dash...
    i agree, but that type of 'delivery' has never worked with me. bosses, relationships, friends...anyone who talks AT me, i tend to not hear the message. doesn't have to be candy coated, but tact goes a long way.

    i'm heading to bed too...holy cow, it's late here. 0_o

    Thanks for chatting with me ladies & gents.
    Same here. It is an instant OFF button. Believe me, in theatre you get "notes" and they are given IN FRONT of your fellow actors, so I am not a wilting flower, but tact and delivery, make a huge difference in my response to people.

    Have a good evening...Aloha nui loa and hui hou
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post

    was your first sentence ever uttered...'i do not agree!'


    << runs and hides
    I was actually quiet and sweet as a child. I avoided conflict. Was very easy going.
    As I got older, and got bullied more, I began to slowly change and by the time I reached High School, sophomore and junior year I was pretty gruff, hard nosed and often accused of being mean, looking mean, etc. Not many people get to know me. Those that do usually begin to see what lays beneath the grumpy exterior- same as Dywyddyr, as Scheherazade mentioned... It limits the amount of Buffoons that will invade my space, truth told and I consider it an advantage.
    I understand. I'm not that different. I don't let many people in, either...
    We all have our guard up, to varying degrees, I reckon.
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  101. #100  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wegs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    In my observation, neverfly's delivery, not unlike that of a certain duck, is frequently a bit 'challenging' and is becoming somewhat more understandable to me by what these individuals have posted on a number of other threads. The line of questioning that they bring to these discussions does have the value of provoking one to examine other perspectives beyond the one of the present emotion and moment.

    Laters all...time to dash...
    i agree, but that type of 'delivery' has never worked with me. bosses, relationships, friends...anyone who talks AT me, i tend to not hear the message. doesn't have to be candy coated, but tact goes a long way.

    i'm heading to bed too...holy cow, it's late here. 0_o

    Thanks for chatting with me ladies & gents.
    Same here. It is an instant OFF button. Believe me, in theatre you get "notes" and they are given IN FRONT of your fellow actors, so I am not a wilting flower, but tact and delivery, make a huge difference in my response to people.

    Have a good evening...Aloha nui loa and hui hou
    yep...

    truth is too...that it takes just as much energy to get a message across in a tactful way (that has the potential of breeding more discussion) as it does to berate/insult someone. (that has the potential of closing down further discussion)

    just speaking in generalities...not about anyone here.

    i might add a discalimer to my signature. ;=)
    babe likes this.
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