July 7th, 2013, 12:48 PM
Shaving is not natural, so why do so many men do it?
When did humans first start shaving? What did they use to shave with?
My guess is women seem to like their men shaved, so as a shaved man I have a bigger selection of women to choose during dating activities.
As to when human men first started shaving, I'm sure a sharp piece of flint or obsidian would do the job, but I can only imagine what a shaving nick might look like.
Maybe, it represents the opposite of penis envy: They are really "women trapped in men's bodies", constantly terrified that someone may realize their latent homosexuality?Originally Posted by Bad Robot
Obviously not being a man I'm probably wrong but to be honest they always look uncomfortable to me....hot and scratchy. But I would guess there is also some societal pressure - the normal discourse around bearded men is that they are dishonest or have something to hide, although a 4 o clock shadow ala gorgeous George Clooney seems to be acceptable. Women also succumb to this for no good reason - I rue the day I ever shaved my lower legs because the hair was so fine and blond it couldn't be seen anyway......although I can understand women wanting to get rid of thick dark hair for aesthetic reasons.
But interestingly (I think) talking of using flint or obsidian, its the reason that Hassidic jews grow talim - you know the locks of hair at their sideburns. There are some big old arteries and nerves up the front and across the top of the ear so a shaving slip would have probably been fatal pre-hospitals/health care and I would guess the same reason goes for their beards.
I sort of doubt that, at least from my own personal POV. There is pear pressure, on the job pressure, females letting you know how they feel about it, and also, not all beards are created equal. So the mine is better than yours comes into play.Maybe, it represents the opposite of penis envy: They are really "women trapped in men's bodies", constantly terrified that someone may realize their latent homosexuality?
Maybe my reasons for not liking women that have harry armpits and legs is similar to woman not liking men with beards? Also, for quite some time now most women looking to meet men, groom areas that rarely get displayed to the general public and I also like that too. So who am I to even worry about why most women prefer shaved men. I don't have a weak chin that needs covering up.
Well - there is always that element of "ickiness" with hair isn't there? I don't know why I shave my armpits except that the Julia Roberts look makes me feel queasy. It seems like hair that's anywhere except on your head is icky........ I guess that's another thing....why is hair in food such a stomach turner or in the swimming pool. I got someone's hair in my mouth at the pool and finding it and pulling it out actually made me heave a bit....but why, its not like hair is associated with dirt is it.....very strange.
I once had a girlfriend who had shaved her pubic hair and I was the one who got the beard burn.Maybe my reasons for not liking women that have harry armpits and legs is similar to woman not liking men with beards? Also, for quite some time now most women looking to meet men, groom areas that rarely get displayed to the general public and I also like that too. So who am I to even worry about why most women prefer shaved men. I don't have a weak chin that needs covering up.
(sigh)
I would say to make shaving your partner a part of your foreplay each and every time to keep the southern shadow at bay.
Also there are a couple of competing devices that use heat to get rid of hair below the skin line. One that comes to mind is the No No.
For the same reason we shave our balls...it is sexy as hell...
I do not shave, my head, my face, my balls, my legs, chest, arms nor underarms.
I think that attacking your body with sharpened steel or wierd chemicals because of some whim of fashion, or because you think chicks or guys might dig it is a really really insane rejection of nature and reality.
but, then again, I am obviously biased in this view.
.........................
Why do bald me wear hats inside, like, on an airplane?
From a mans POV, I think well manicured beards can and do change a mans look and character, many times for the better. But that does take extra daily grooming time that a lot of men just don't want to take.
For women, once they start removing hair they should keep it up even after getting into long term relationships. Any man that marries a well manicured woman and then starts getting tickled by her mustash is not going to be a happy camper.
If it's good enough for professionals it's good enough for me. And it doesn't hurt one bit when a woman you are with tells you how much they appreciate it.
Who was it that first said bald is beautiful? Was that Telly Savalas?
I'd say trim your beard to give yourself a real bad ass look, take off the hat and get a good tan on that cue ball, and see if you could pass as a real bad boy.
This could be cool on the bald man.
So you are sporting a lazy mans beard. Some guys can pull that off, but most can't.Maybe I don't count as well manicured then. Quick Grade II trim with the clippers once a week is the only time I spend beard grooming...
It's an obvious sign of adult masculinity. Most men seem to display facial hair in male-dominated cultures (Latin and South America, Muslim countries, central Asia, etc). In the much less male-dominated United States, facial hair is much less common. We haven't even elected a president with facial hair for more than 100 years.
I have to say that bearded men is not something I associate with South American men but I could be wrong.
I have to ask the men posting this topic. How many of you have been shaved by a barber with a straight razor? It's a great experience, but you do have to put up with some strange thoughts. After all it's not everyday you let someone besides yourself hold a very sharp piece of steel to your throat.
I imagine it's no big deal if you know your barber well and he has shaved you many times before. But how many of us know a barber very well these days?
many years ago, my ex wife and I took some friends out to dinner at a very expensive japanese resteurant, blue tile roof right on the water...
A complete stranger came to my end of the table and started waving very long and sharp knives around. I shooed him away; unkindly i'm afraid.
If, as I, you wouldn't enjoy the knife show, I suspect that you, as I, would have found the meal a tad pricey----we never went back there again.
I actually had Kobe beef in Kobe Japan of all things, but I was expecting the knife show and really enjoyed it and the dinner.
When I was young enough and unmaried enough for this to matter, I prefered my women unshorn, unshaved, unscented and unwashed---my body just loved the scent of a woman,
the pheromones filled my senses, and ignited a primal flame in my very soul.
if'n you ain't felt it , I can't explain it.
but, i found the perfume most women use as senseualy repugnant compared to their natural scent.
Because I prefer my soup to stay in its bowl.
Yuck!!!When I was young enough and unmaried enough for this to matter, I prefered my women unshorn, unshaved, unscented and unwashed---my body just loved the scent of a woman,
the pheromones filled my senses, and ignited a primal flame in my very soul.
if'n you ain't felt it , I can't explain it.
but, i found the perfume most women use as senseualy repugnant compared to their natural scent.
"yuck" means you ain't found that primal moment when all else fades into meaningless drivel.
I feel that about extreme chronic pain or intense moments of extreme pain. But harry smelly women are a big turn off to me.
lolI feel that about extreme chronic pain or intense moments of extreme pain. But harry smelly women are a big turn off to me.
Napolean was said to have once written to josaphine : "will be back in 3 days, don't wash"
I think shaving is mostly just an aesthetic thing, but I also think it has had ties to the military. In a fight, I could use an enemy's beard to my advantage. Historically it probably would've been more hygienic. Retaining employment in some fields necessitates shaving. As an example, if you work in the oil fields, you need a closely-shaven or clean-shaven face. Otherwise your SCBA isn't going to fit properly.
Shaving is just something that has remained in fashion, and in some cases is necessary.
Beards were often banned by Army regiments, it's something for an enemy to grab hold of and control you with in hand to hand fighting. Fashion often follows military styles, take short hair on men, until WWI men generally wore their hair longer, but infestation of lice and fleas saw men keeping their hair much shorter, and that has persisted. So I'd venture being clean shaved has martial roots also.
Its probably mostly a cultural thing, but maybe men and women perceive less body hair (beard for men, beard and leg hairs for women) as more attractive and an advantage for mate selection? It may also in part be a reason why humans have less or less visible body hair than other primates? Its a bit strange in the case of beard for men specifically because sexual differentiation features are often desirable and advantageous, and often reinforced by mate selection patterns. Imo that may be part of the reason why human females often have relatively developed breasts before having a baby, or why in certain birds males have vibrant colors instead of dull camouflage colors.
Im not a military specialist (Im a bit anti-military for those that had not noticedit's something for an enemy to grab hold of and control you with in hand to hand fighting
Last edited by icewendigo; July 8th, 2013 at 09:37 AM.
Current differences between the sexes in grooming can be traced back to the earliest cave art and figurines; those in turn can be traced back (less concretely) to our common ancestor with chimpanzees. Way back, grooming - ostensibly for parasites - was a social function vital to bonding and favoritism. So as social animals we needed this. But then we lost our body hair, and certain evidence suggests we were actually less hairy than the present average. The solution then was to retain head hair, which provides a socially effective focus for grooming. Later with the development of cutting tools men began to crop their head hair, so they would not receive grooming. Why I don't know, but evidently cultures where social grooming became a feminine activity, were more successful because this same gender difference shows up everywhere in art depicting women exclusively sporting hairdos that must require long hours of attention by presumably their friends or sisters. Popular styles include tight braids and hair so intricately laden with beads it resembles a hat. We know the beads because these litter the floors where early humans lived, and also correspond with art of those same women.
Beards have come and gone. I speculate that, except for the modern individuality-beard, ancient or prehistoric cultures where men grew their facial hair were for some reason selecting males of certain age or social standing to receive grooming. Notice that in many cases beards were only allowed noblemen, who obviously couldn't have personally worked those cunning braids and beading depicted in the art.
My main point here is that grooming began and continued as a social function, though like most cultural artifacts we entertain trite explanations for just why we do it, like "it looks good". The better explanation for this - and other cultural elements - is that for then misunderstood reasons cultures that didn't tended to die off.
My question though is why did cultures where ordinary men received less grooming than ordinary women, why where they most successful?
Gender roles were also very similar in most cultures, right? Long hair is a liability if you're participating in hunts, and possibly even skirmishes with competing tribes - which is possibly why you find the cropped hair common for men. Also, extent of leisure activities should reflect the extent of a group's success as a society.
So if we can establish that gender roles are similar, and that long hair is a liability for hunters and warriors, we should also be able to say that the more effort put into the females' hair implies how successful said tribe was at competing for survival. So, one could logically say that the reason you find artwork depicting sophisticated hairstyles - but only for women - is because the other groups had either been outcompeted -or- they had been absorbed into the successful societies.
Last edited by stander-j; July 8th, 2013 at 09:13 AM.
The idea of having to wear a beard net might deter some from growing it out. I know several employers, even those not related to food, require men to keep their face clean.
As for me, well, I'd just look dumb if I grew it out.
The Spartans didn't seem to feel long hair was a liability - neither did the Greeks before them. In fact Spartan men used to elaborately decorate their hair before they went to war.
When was the last time you tried letting it grow out? Usually if you don't have a great beard, you do have enough that you can trim it into a look that's not bad. However you have to keep trimming it and it will be more work than completely shaving your face.
Here's a page of pictures to give you some ideas.
goatee pictures - Bing Images
Two things:
1) I got the idea Pong was talking about prehistory tribals. Also, if you were hunting, long hair would make you more noticeable - if the wind blows, if you get close to a tree, if it's matted and sticking out all over the place. Warfare would've been different too. You wouldn't have had helmets, shields, and armour - which would restrict one's ability to use your hair to their advantage.
2) Wouldn't a Spartan man's long hair reflect the extent of their leisure activity? They were the elites of their society - and that was precisely what their hair was supposed to represent. The people that actually did the work in their society weren't allowed to have long hair. The only thing Spartan men actually did was fight.
Gas mask don't seal properly over beards; this, more than anything else, changed many WWI army beard policies.
Does not explain agricultural societies, where both men and women work in the field. The Egyptian art plainly shows long hair no encumbrance to physical labour, like stooping for fishing nets even. It's grown long so that it may be done up. My hypothesis is that it's the doing up (of each other) that had cultural value, though people didn't get that at the time... same way chimpanzees apparently think grooming is a purposeful attack on parasites and nothing more.
I was trying to ignore the weird exception of Greece. Besides hairdos men lavished all manner of TLC on their friend's bodies, in baths. Civilized yet straight-up ape grooming there. I sometimes patronize Italian barbers for a taste of it. I wonder if there wasn't some kind of hierarchy affirmation in the Mediterranean bath grooming though. Or as stander-j's example suggests: a warrior prepares himself psychologically to dominate other men, by having a lackey do his hair up. Again I wanna stress that the real function of cultural practices needn't be understood by their adherents, in fact it's often better if we rationalize a stupid explanation like "it looks good" or "the gods demand it"... natural selection ensures good practice endures regardless of nonsensical explanation.
Okay so to clarify, you weren't strictly speaking about prehistoric hunter-gatherers?Does not explain agricultural societies, where both men and women work in the field. The Egyptian art plainly shows long hair no encumbrance to physical labour, like stooping for fishing nets even. It's grown long so that it may be done up. My hypothesis is that it's the doing up (of each other) that had cultural value, though people didn't get that at the time... same way chimpanzees apparently think grooming is a purposeful attack on parasites and nothing more.
I'm going get ahead of myself here, and assume that the long hair was almost exclusively an attribute of Ancient Egyptian women. Please do correct me if I have it wrong.
Here is what I would suspect about later periods: all agricultural societies stemmed from hunter-gatherer ancestors, so what may have once been advantageous might later become a stable cultural norm.
Edit: I mean in reference to short hair, the short hair becomes a stable norm.
Last edited by stander-j; July 8th, 2013 at 11:53 AM.
I do know in our modern military, when they start new recruits out in boot camp, they do their best to make them all look the same in that their hair is shaved close to the scalp and they must maintain a clean shaven face. Supposedly it helps bond the new recruits and also helps them maintain a higher level of hygiene.Gas mask don't seal properly over beards; this, more than anything else, changed many WWI army beard policies.
I was tracing the grooming of head/facial hair from pre-sapiens ancestors to modern day. There is a big gap in evidence between the fact all great apes groom socially, and the earliest art where hairstyle can be determined. Everything after the gap pretty uniformly shows females with hair/hairdos that invites or necessitates lots of grooming... but for some reason the men had already cut the possibility of themselves getting groomed. These differences carried on with just a few local interruptions, to the present day.
Ancient Egyptian women dressed their hair according to activity or occasion, like modern women do. They probably took pride in the relative straightness and blackness of their hair, compared to neighboring populations. This sort of national trait idealization is normal; some neighboring populations probably flaunted their own perfectly brown or perfectly wooly hair, and so forth. Anyway one can do more with longer hair.
Prehistoric hunter-gatherer women always, apparently, had their (long) hair done up. And in intricate style too. I guess that's how they spent an evening without card games or television.
I'm suggesting that grooming - as a bonding occupation between women - was the reason we retained these hairs in the first place. If our great ape ancestors had gone cold-turkey on grooming then we'd have lost hair coverage uniformly. But we needed to retain some for social purposes. The absurd length it can grow to, I suppose reflects the amount of work we can put into it. More work means more bonding, means tighter groups of women.
I didn't research this much before the thread gave me pretext to put it out. So I guess the hypothesis has large holes. I should go to some fancy African hairdressers with examples and ask how long, using only simple tools, these dos would take.
There are practical as well as societal reasons for shaving within my culture. The ones I speak to are current, not historical.
When I was in the volunteer fire department, the men had to have a clean shaven face in order for the face mask of the SCBA to seal properly. A smaller mustache (no handlebars) or one of those chin tufts would fit inside the mask.
Hubby works in management in retail grocery and it is only recently that the store policy has relaxed enough that management may wear a beard but it has to be kept short and neatly trimmed. (This store also has a dress code for staff and employees are limited in the number and location of visible piercings and may not dye their hair unnatural colors. Night crew is exempt from the policy except for those aspects which pertain to safety. Those who operate the power jack must wear steel toes as example.)
The military, with their recruits, are seeking to eliminate the 'individual personality' aspect that shaping one's one hair style and beard affords. You are part of a unit, not an individual. In day to day life and among celebrities, facial hair can be part of an unique look which can be advantageous.
The reasons for shaving (or not) are largely a matter of our financial culture and personal choice.
1) In many jobs, clean shaven is a policy that fits with the image of fiscal success that they want to portray. There are professional dress codes in many businesses.
2) For some jobs, the absence of facial hair is mandatory for safety and for equipment to be effective.
3) For the two reasons stated above, many women have come to associate clean shaven or at least well groomed men with success and therefore these men are potentially better providers.
Of course, if one is financially independent, one has no need to be observant of the fiscal and cultural fashion biases of the time.
a chin tuft is that patch of facial hair right under the lip?
of so, anecdote:
Long ago one of the black enlisted men had one of those chin tufts, and Sergeant major Sellman told him to shave it off, and he indignantly told the Sergeant major that "that was the badge of his people". As the conversation progressed, the enlisted man claimed that "his major" (also black) had given him his permission for the facial hair. The sgt.mjr. told the soldier to go and get that permission in writing. And the idiot major did exactly that. So the sgt major referenced that paragraph in the uniform code of military justice, and announced that that rule had been overwritten by order of the aforementioned major. Then the sgt.mjr. had copies made up and posted on all of the bulliton boards. (maybe this was on a wednesday?) Anyway, the following Monday, as the colonel and I came bebopping into the site, the colonel turned to me and said "Is it my imagination patt, or is everyone around here looking a bit...scruffy? , "Not your imagination at all sir" said I, whereupon I pulled one of the papers down from the bulliton board, and presented it to Colonel Hendricksen. He read the notice, then made one of those deep rumbling sounds down in his throat, paused, then said "You hire the best, and they've all got minds of their own"... "Please go get major.....and ask him to meet with Sergeant major Sellman and myself. "
the Sergeant major had been an mp for over 20 years before being reassigned to stratcom. He played a mean guitar, and knew the UCMJ forward, backward, upside down and inside out. It was rather silly of the major to challenge him. Anyway, the 3 got together, and the colonel encouraged an end to their folly. The original paragraph from the UCMJ was posted, and the next morning, the scruffyness was a memory.
No doubt Hollywood and the entertainment industry has had some effect on the preference of women with regard to how much facial hair they prefer on men.
Power, money and women are all reasons enough for many men to invest time, energy and expense in the ritual of daily grooming as it pertains to facial hair.
Facial hair was something worn by officiers depending on rank. Keep in mind that back them the average age of an offices was relativly young (disease, poor nutrition etc) so the facial hair helped invoke respect and made the person apear elder and sofficticated. And as with these things it finds a way to the general public.Now these days, the oppisite applies, no facial hair = youth and since it requires aan active habbit of grooming, a shaved face conveys tideness.
Because waxing hurts.Why do so many men shave their beards?
And lets underestimate the influence of glitzy adds and marketing campaigns to convince people to do things they otherwise wouldn't want to.
Selling the Dream: Why Advertising Is Good Business - John McDonald Hood - Google Books
Really??????????Maybe, it represents the opposite of penis envy: They are really "women trapped in men's bodies", constantly terrified that someone may realize their latent homosexuality?
you didd NOT just say that. Clearly you have NO idea of what makes a gay man a gay man. And as a gay man I find this statement to be rather offensive.
Why do I shave my face?
In the words of so many great men before me, "My wife makes me."
Does that mean you used to sport a beard and then lost it because of female pressure?
And plucking is very time consuming and also hurts.
I often wondered if people ever used a Bowie knife to shave with? I've watched them do it in the movies or on TV, but somehow I have trouble believing people pull out their personal big knives and shave with them.
This technique only works if you are able to put a real keen edge on a blade. I have watched people sharpen a blade and then spit on their arm and check to see if the blade was 'sharp enough to shave with'. These experienced individuals used a whetstone and a drop of gun oil, not one of those commercial 'sharpening systems.'I often wondered if people ever used a Bowie knife to shave with? I've watched them do it in the movies or on TV, but somehow I have trouble believing people pull out their personal big knives and shave with them.
Chuckle....Maybe my reasons for not liking women that have harry armpits and legs is similar to woman not liking men with beards? Also, for quite some time now most women looking to meet men, groom areas that rarely get displayed to the general public and I also like that too. So who am I to even worry about why most women prefer shaved men. I don't have a weak chin that needs covering up.
When I was first married, my husband decided to grow a beard and a moustache. When he shaved them, I didn't notice. I shave because, I live by a beach. No one really wants to see hairy armpits, legs or pubic hair in full display.
What kind of beach is that...?
well one with bikini's being worn......no one cares at the nude beach!What kind of beach is that...?
I shouldn't have asked...
*Laughing* my philosophy is if you ask me an honest question, I will give you an honest answer.
I was taught hand to hand combat by my father, who taught it in the armed forces, as well as small arms use. In a fight to the death, you'll use _anything_ to win. so giving your enemy something to grab hold of is not wise. I'm also an experienced Judoka, so given regular people don't wear Gi, grabbing a hold of something else that is well attached to control them is a bonus, although neck flesh works pretty well too.]
Im not a military specialist (Im a bit anti-military for those that had not noticed
And of course you'd use longer range weapons first, but as hand to hand combat is still taught, and most definitely still required, especially in urban FIBUA scenarios, where protagonists hide in plain sight amongst the crowd, you can't always bring a weapon to bear in time, or safely.
I was talking about hair on the head, not face, head hair was shorn because hygiene in the trenches was so poor . Head hair and facial hair in the British military has been subject to fashion and been a uniform requirement over the ages. Moustaches were required in the Army for a long time, as were pony tails on sailors. Moustaches are still allowed in most branches of the military, whereas pony tails are not, but it's unlikely a sailor will be saved from a cutlass blow to the back of the neck by one these days.
fleet sailors were allowed "neatly trimmed" beards.
Back to the thong thing, weeks of diet and exercise, then summer and a brand new thong, and the fur fringes the thing.
To shave or not to shave, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the eye to suffer the fur fringed thong, or take razor in hand aggainst a sea of pubic hairs, and by opposing them, to shave, to trim, to see them no more............
so, once begun, where does it end
If more people are selecting mates that have less hair, we must be in one of those evolutionary changes via the mate selection processes and in a thousand or few thousand years from now humans will be less harry than they are now.
LOL...I think you mean 'hairy'...
I must be bored, picking on you KJ. You will always be KJ to me because Bad Robot just does not fit with the mental construct that I have of you.
It doesn't....I shower and shave the little fur fringes daily wherever they may be.fleet sailors were allowed "neatly trimmed" beards.
Back to the thong thing, weeks of diet and exercise, then summer and a brand new thong, and the fur fringes the thing.
To shave or not to shave, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the eye to suffer the fur fringed thong, or take razor in hand aggainst a sea of pubic hairs, and by opposing them, to shave, to trim, to see them no more............
so, once begun, where does it end
Imagination is a fun thing
images brought to lite with the stroke of a keyboard.
How many got my borrowing from the bard?
Reminds me of "Return to the Forbidden Planet". Probably the only way anyone got me do anything Shakespeare. Taking Shakespeare out of context and putting it in appropriately hilarious places. They best!
I tend to agree with those who have mentioned hygiene as a prime suspect of inspiration. Body lice is pretty nasty. There are also the images of heavily bearded men carrying their last meal on their chin. It's just easier to clean up without the beard.
As far as fashion or female preferences are concerned, those all change with the wind. I think more often than not, men choose to shave or not based on their own personal preferences.
I personally, think that some men look better with a beard and some look better without.
Agreed, but no woman looks good in a bikini with pubic hair hanging out or hairy armpits and legs in my opinion.....
Then again...I'm old school in some things
Shaving is not natural, so why do so many men do it?
When did humans first start shaving? What did they use to shave with?
My guess is women seem to like their men shaved, so as a shaved man I have a bigger selection of women to choose during dating activities.
As to when human men first started shaving, I'm sure a sharp piece of flint or obsidian would do the job, but I can only imagine what a shaving nick might look like.
I found this to be an extremely interesting question, and after seeing no one answered the question, I decided to research it.
The following is the best source that I could find.
Shaving history begins with shark teeth - CNN.com
"Records drawn on cave walls show prehistoric people shaving with clamshells, flint knives, and even shark teeth."
"According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, circular solid gold or copper razors can be found as far back as the 4th millennium BC in some Egyptian tombs." "Still other cultures sharpened volcanic obsidian glass and used those."
But I was more interested in whether humans from 50,000+ years ago shaved, but I could not find any information about this, and I could not even find a theory.
Like you I feel women would be the main factor in getting men to shave. I think it would be interesting to ask woman from every culture on Earth, whether they prefer a shaven or unshaven man/mate?
(Personally) I believe that if most women said they preferred a shaven man/mate, then some/many men would have been shaving 190,000 years ago.
Last edited by chad; July 13th, 2013 at 03:25 AM.
and I, as a woman, would say depends on the man, and the beard.....I am particular as to what looks good on a man......it's a girlie thing...in the long run..what appeals to youShaving is not natural, so why do so many men do it?
When did humans first start shaving? What did they use to shave with?
My guess is women seem to like their men shaved, so as a shaved man I have a bigger selection of women to choose during dating activities.
As to when human men first started shaving, I'm sure a sharp piece of flint or obsidian would do the job, but I can only imagine what a shaving nick might look like.
I found this to be an extremely interesting question, and after seeing no one answered the question, I decided to research it.
The following is the best source that I could find.
Shaving history begins with shark teeth - CNN.com
"Records drawn on cave walls show prehistoric people shaving with clamshells, flint knives, and even shark teeth."
"According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, circular solid gold or copper razors can be found as far back as the 4th millennium BC in some Egyptian tombs." "Still other cultures sharpened volcanic obsidian glass and used those."
But I was more interested in whether humans from 50,000+ years ago shaved, but I could not find any information about this, and I could not even find a theory.
Like you I feel women would be the main factor in getting men to shave. I think it would be interesting to ask woman from every culture on Earth, whether they prefer a shaven or unshaven man/mate?
(Personally) I believe that if most women said they preferred a shaven man/mate, then some/many men would have been shaving 190,000 years ago.
One thing about shaving, it's one thing that humans do that no other animal does. It may be one of those things that make humans feel they are different and better than all other animals.Shaving is not natural, so why do so many men do it?
When did humans first start shaving? What did they use to shave with?
My guess is women seem to like their men shaved, so as a shaved man I have a bigger selection of women to choose during dating activities.
As to when human men first started shaving, I'm sure a sharp piece of flint or obsidian would do the job, but I can only imagine what a shaving nick might look like.
I found this to be an extremely interesting question, and after seeing no one answered the question, I decided to research it.
The following is the best source that I could find.
Shaving history begins with shark teeth - CNN.com
"Records drawn on cave walls show prehistoric people shaving with clamshells, flint knives, and even shark teeth."
"According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, circular solid gold or copper razors can be found as far back as the 4th millennium BC in some Egyptian tombs." "Still other cultures sharpened volcanic obsidian glass and used those."
But I was more interested in whether humans from 50,000+ years ago shaved, but I could not find any information about this, and I could not even find a theory.
Like you I feel women would be the main factor in getting men to shave. I think it would be interesting to ask woman from every culture on Earth, whether they prefer a shaven or unshaven man/mate?
(Personally) I believe that if most women said they preferred a shaven man/mate, then some/many men would have been shaving 190,000 years ago.
Grog better than short hoof. Grog scrape hair off face with rock.
Grog dead sexy.
I doubt that.
Mustaches? In a former time, à la Pancho Villa (and friends) —
but so did General Black Jack Pershing who chased after Villa into Mexico
and Teddy Roosevelt and his Rough Riders of the same era
It has been said that Alexander the Great ordered his men to shave for exactly this reason.
Last edited by jrmonroe; July 13th, 2013 at 10:03 PM. Reason: smaller, easier to view photo of Pancho Villa et al
Moustache ticklers?Mustaches? In a former time, à la Pancho Villa (and friends) —
but so did General Black Jack Pershing who chased after Villa into Mexico
and Teddy Roosevelt and his Rough Riders of the same era
It has been said that Alexander the Great ordered his men to shave for exactly this reason.
We do know the earliest representations of men show them beardless and short haired, in contrast to women who typically sport elaborate hairdos. We don't know when that started, but it certainly was prior to sophisticated stone-technology. I mean, they'd have cut hairs with what we call "crude choppers".I doubt that.
At that stage in our evolution, I think it important to remember the importance of "great ape" social grooming. Grooming was the way to maintain friendships and alliances, and we devoted more time to this than anything else. Then for some reason, our ancestors literally cut off the possibility of men receiving this favour.
We need an experiment. What would happen, socially, if you shaved all the males in a tribe of chimpanzees? In what way would the the new social system be adaptive?
Hairless chimpanzees, I really like that experiment.
I believe some ancient societies actually pulled the facial hairs. If they get pulled out by the root they don't grow back, so after a few years of pulling that person wouldn't have a growing beard anymore.
I've pulled a few hairs before and it starts hurting after a while. Not sure I could handle a few years of that.
Yeah, to say we used the stone tools of the time is speculation. Could have been shell-shards or shark teeth...? We just know the earliest depictions - like cave paintings - show that while women retained hair others could groom (and carried this to great lengths), men removed theirs. Why?
I firmly suggest you try waxing.Hairless chimpanzees, I really like that experiment.
I believe some ancient societies actually pulled the facial hairs. If they get pulled out by the root they don't grow back, so after a few years of pulling that person wouldn't have a growing beard anymore.
I've pulled a few hairs before and it starts hurting after a while. Not sure I could handle a few years of that.
I'm into weight lifting and it's not uncommon to see guys in the sport, shave their arms and legs.I like some body hair on a guy; it's masculine.Beards on the right guy are very hawt.
Pong
You keep claiming that cave paintings show short haired and shaved men.
Long ago, I wrote several papers on the cave and rock paintings and never found what you claim.
Do you have a link to a cave painting which you would like to discuss?
one interesting thing is that of showing hands from altamira and the Pyrenees to the maya homelands
( more evidence for solutrean - clovis connection? or just coincidence?)
skeptically yours
In the trucking industry it's considered a good idea to keep the trucks all washed and clean looking. Good for attracting clients. It makes it look like the money must be rolling in if they can afford to frequent truck washes regularly.
The truth, more often, is they're forcing the truck drivers to do it and not paying them for the extra labor.
Because I don't like others thinking I'm a masochist.I firmly suggest you try waxing.
Waxing really doesn't hurt!Because I don't like others thinking I'm a masochist.
I firmly suggest you try waxing.
Well I've pulled tape off harry parts of my body before and it always hurt. Enough to make me want to shave those areas before taping again.Waxing really doesn't hurt!Because I don't like others thinking I'm a masochist.
I firmly suggest you try waxing.
Well that's a problem then!I'm into weight lifting and it's not uncommon to see guys in the sport, shave their arms and legs.I like some body hair on a guy; it's masculine.Beards on the right guy are very hawt.
That goes w/o saying!! SHEESH! You need to just have like 1/4 inch to not hurt waxing!! Otherwise it is rather like the scene in "The 40 Year Old VirginI", which was probably the only thing I remotely laughed at in that movie.Well I've pulled tape off harry parts of my body before and it always hurt. Enough to make me want to shave those areas before taping again.Waxing really doesn't hurt!Because I don't like others thinking I'm a masochist.
I firmly suggest you try waxing.
Sure let's do the obvious Lascaux cave. Google images "Lascaux".
See a man (with hardon?) beside a bison. Artist has drawn hairs on the bison, so we know the artist does see hair and considers it an important element. We also know a man without haircut would have hair so obvious as horse's mane or bison's beard. Yet the man depicted has no hairs or shape of hair to his head. Why the omission?
***
About handprints. Perhaps they're like footprints? To a hunter, footprints mean that thing existed in a place, at a different time. They may also mark a place as belonging to or frequented by the animal. In this view, the meaning of a handprint is simple: humans were here, this is a human place. The cave art hands might be examples of what people did often outdoors to mark places frequented by humans.
Pong:
The figure:
has the head of a bird
please note the bird on a shaft/pole/spear just below the poorly drawn(human)figure.
You will note that the heads of the (human) and bird are almost identical
The figure is commonly refered to as a "shaman of the bird clan"
Though, some people also think it related to astronomy.
The figure is not a convincing arguement for shaving by early artistic humans.
Do you have any others?
........
I would argue that the Addaura cave paintings show men with long hair and beards.
All I can say is we have it way better removing hair now than we ever did in the past.
Historical Methods of Hair Removal
History Undressed: Historical Methods of Hair Removal
But not growing it!!!All I can say is we have it way better removing hair now than we ever did in the past.
Historical Methods of Hair Removal
History Undressed: Historical Methods of Hair Removal
I know they didn't have Rogaine back then.But not growing it!!!All I can say is we have it way better removing hair now than we ever did in the past.
Historical Methods of Hair Removal
History Undressed: Historical Methods of Hair Removal
If u wish to not shave...don't! easy peasy
So how do you get rid of hair if you don't want to shave and you can't afford to get it lasered off?If u wish to not shave...don't! easy peasy
waxing has always worked for me.So how do you get rid of hair if you don't want to shave and you can't afford to get it lasered off?If u wish to not shave...don't! easy peasy
do you not want to shave, is that the dilemma here...hmmmm? lol
Waxing off some leg hair off is one thing, but I can't imagine waxing a beard off. Don't tell me you know a guy that ever did that?waxing has always worked for me.So how do you get rid of hair if you don't want to shave and you can't afford to get it lasered off?If u wish to not shave...don't! easy peasy
do you not want to shave, is that the dilemma here...hmmmm? lol
lol no...at least they never told me.Waxing off some leg hair off is one thing, but I can't imagine waxing a beard off. Don't tell me you know a guy that ever did that?waxing has always worked for me.So how do you get rid of hair if you don't want to shave and you can't afford to get it lasered off?If u wish to not shave...don't! easy peasy
do you not want to shave, is that the dilemma here...hmmmm? lol
if i were a guy, and i wanted to keep a beard...i would.
some jobs frown on beards though.
where i work believe it or not, men are not permitted to have beards. haha
mustaches, yes. no beards.
interestingly, you can go back to the early church monks, and i believe beards were frowned upon then too?
i wonder if they waxed.
:=P
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