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Thread: characteristics

  1. #1 characteristics 
    Forum Senior chero's Avatar
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    might our mental traits be hereditary???


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    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
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    Er, I believe that I read depression has a %50 inheritance, things like alcoholism also seem to stay within the family "though this may be more due to the environment than the genes themselves." Intelligence is significantly inherited "pity huh? You're confined to whatever your parents give you."


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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Personality and temperament along with physical potential have long been thought to be hereditary traits in horses and dogs and diligent breeders take this into consideration when selecting pairings.

    Which mental traits do you have in mind, chero? Do you have some evidence or suggested means of testing for this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    might our mental traits be hereditary???
    Of course, they might! Is it not true that as we meander through life, we constantly consider, re-think, adhere to, further understand, the credos daily handed down from our parents? We do this as a result of hereditary influence, do you not think? jocular
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    If you are referring to finding similarities in movements and gestures, and ways of expression, I believe so, by observing behaviour and movement. I notice that my daughter has some of her dad's physicality traits when speaking and my son also.

    If you mean how we process things? Possibly. Both children have "character traits" that personify their parents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    Probably!!!!

    (Sorry for the facetious answer but if you want a more meaningful reply you will have to be more specific).
    our characteristics. the way we act. etc. etc.

    for example:
    the Italians that waive their hands around when talking
    are red heads really hot headed?
    personality traits from mom & dad & ancestors you've never met.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Certain things are "passed along" in the genes while other things we gain knowledge about or adapt to as we age.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Certain things are "passed along" in the genes while other things we gain knowledge about or adapt to as we age.
    So true, and should we be as concerned as we appear to be, which of the two processes are responsible? jocular
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    Nature vs. Nurture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Nature vs. Nurture.
    I thought it was "nature vs nurture."
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    No, I too once had that misconception- but now I know better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    No, I too once had that misconception- but now I know better.
    I simply say that this way: "I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken!". jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    Probably!!!!

    (Sorry for the facetious answer but if you want a more meaningful reply you will have to be more specific).
    our characteristics. the way we act. etc. etc.

    for example:
    the Italians that waive their hands around when talking
    are red heads really hot headed?
    personality traits from mom & dad & ancestors you've never met.
    .
    Yes, and so do the French, Germans, Slovenian's and Greeks that I have known........I'm a redhead...I am fiery but only when provoked.....

    How in the hell could you possibly know you have personality traits from dead people you never met or anyone in your family ever met?

    "David, you hold your left hand at the same angle as you great great great great second cousin three times removed did." ???????
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    Yeah. But he only held his hand that way because he got removed.
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    might our mental traits be hereditary???
    As others have pointed out your question is so general that one can, at best, give only a general reply. This is it. Some are, some are not.

    Those specific examples you gave in a later post are almost certainly cultural. It would also be helpful if you did some background reading on psychology (wikiepedia as is so oftern the case could be a good starting point). Mental traits, characteristics and the way we act, are vague and non-technical terms. This pushes any responses in the same direction. That will not be very helpful for you.
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    oh pulease!!!.....you know what that reference was too!!

    Funny though!


    That however wasn't my point....I met my grandmother once, when I was 19 years old in Slovenia. I finally knew who I looked like in my family as I don't resemble my siblings. Height, she also had red hair, and deep blue eyes and she had my smile......but other than the physical similarities, we did not have any other ones.

    HOWEVER, my mother and she....oh my goodness....they were so much alike! Mannerisms, patience levels, it was interesting to observe.
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    From what I gather, I'm much like certain "removed" members of my family, including my father in some regards. I saw little of my father and associated with him little. The last time I ever spoke to him at all was when I was 12 years old.
    I don't look anything at all like him, though.
    Similarly, my son- he reminds me of me when I was his age. Same hyper-activeness and such...
    And he looks nothing like me.
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    my nephew's son is his spitting image with slightly darker hair....it is uncanny to say the least......at least I shall have my great nephew to remember his dad by.......both inquisitive, smart and scientific....and Star Wars and Star Trek fans.....

    My children resemble both of us...but people often change their minds when they see the four of us together.

    Mannerisms are interesting also.

    I don't think they are conciously adapted.
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  20. #19  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    the Italians that waive their hands around when talking
    There is nothing genetic about being Italian. So this is obviously cultural.

    are red heads really hot headed?
    Although red-headedness and (some) personality traits may both be genetic, that doesn't mean there is any correlation between them.
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    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    the Italians that waive their hands around when talking
    There is nothing genetic about being Italian. So this is obviously cultural.

    are red heads really hot headed?
    Although red-headedness and (some) personality traits may both be genetic, that doesn't mean there is any correlation between them.
    I question the validity of these statements.
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  22. #21  
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    Mr. Neverfly....I am a redhead....my kids are redheads....my grandmother was a redhead.....their uncle was a redhead....

    GINGERS are a genetic personality of their own.

    We are not blonde's...

    We are not sultry brunette's...

    We are GINGERS......many colors of them and many genetic coloring of skin also.

    Not all of us Redheads freckle by the way....
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  23. #22  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    the Italians that waive their hands around when talking
    There is nothing genetic about being Italian. So this is obviously cultural.

    are red heads really hot headed?
    Although red-headedness and (some) personality traits may both be genetic, that doesn't mean there is any correlation between them.
    I question the validity of these statements.
    I'm not sure what you are questioning.

    Nationality is a cultural identity, not genetic. Ditto national characteristics (language, music, body language, etc). Take a child from Italy and have them adopted by, say, a Japanese family. Will they grow up waving their hands when they talk and with a love of pasta? (Well, the pasta thing, maybe. Who doesn't like pasta?) And take a kid who has grown up in Italy even though his parents are Mongolian immigrants; will he not wave his hands when he talks and prefer dried yak meat (or whatever stereotypical dish is appropriate ) to Italian food?

    And, secondly, I am not saying there is no correlation between hair colour and personality. There might be; I don't know (but it seems pretty unlikely). But even if there were, it could be cultural rather than a necessary genetic correlation.

    Or have I missed the point....
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Genetic traits can influence personality but they can't determine it. For example, a mutation can affect your ability to metabolize alcohol, which can make you more likely to become an alcoholic. But you will need environmental triggers as well.Or you can have brain chemistry that makes you more prone to depression. That doesn't necessarily mean you will become depressed.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    should we be as concerned as we appear to be, which of the two processes are responsible?
    They both are to a certain degree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Nationality is a cultural identity, not genetic. Ditto national characteristics (language, music, body language, etc). Take a child from Italy and have them adopted by, say, a Japanese family. Will they grow up waving their hands when they talk and with a love of pasta? (Well, the pasta thing, maybe. Who doesn't like pasta?) And take a kid who has grown up in Italy even though his parents are Mongolian immigrants; will he not wave his hands when he talks and prefer dried yak meat (or whatever stereotypical dish is appropriate ) to Italian food?
    All true.
    I guess it's not that being "Italian" is genetic as much as being in that region is. That's why Italians look similarly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    And, secondly, I am not saying there is no correlation between hair colour and personality. There might be; I don't know (but it seems pretty unlikely). But even if there were, it could be cultural rather than a necessary genetic correlation.

    Or have I missed the point....
    Alex Bing spoke on this right after your post. I've seen many "Studies" that show certain correlations or dispositions. That doesn't mean determination, but you did say there was no correlation.
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    I still believe that even taken out of the environment, genetics in some ways shall appear. Genetics play such a large part of our lives, I believe even when taken out of that cultural environment, that people will still maintain dispositions to the behavioral aspects of their genetic origin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Alex Bing spoke on this right after your post. I've seen many "Studies" that show certain correlations or dispositions. That doesn't mean determination, but you did say there was no correlation.
    Sorry, bad wording on my part. I meant there isn't necessarily any correlation between them (just because they are both genetic - which seemed to be what chero was suggesting) but there might be. (But that might, as someone else noted, be at least partly down to people meeting social expectations.)
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    We learn by mimicking. I am curious if there have been any ethical experiments on the extent of learned behaviors and inherent ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Sorry, bad wording on my part. I meant there isn't necessarily any correlation between them (just because they are both genetic - which seemed to be what chero was suggesting) but there might be. (But that might, as someone else noted, be at least partly down to people meeting social expectations.)
    Ah, then we're good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    We learn by mimicking. I am curious if there have been any ethical experiments on the extent of learned behaviors and inherent ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Sorry, bad wording on my part. I meant there isn't necessarily any correlation between them (just because they are both genetic - which seemed to be what chero was suggesting) but there might be. (But that might, as someone else noted, be at least partly down to people meeting social expectations.)
    Ah, then we're good.
    I think ethnic genetics express themselves in spite of ourselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I still believe that even taken out of the environment, genetics in some ways shall appear. Genetics play such a large part of our lives, I believe even when taken out of that cultural environment, that people will still maintain dispositions to the behavioral aspects of their genetic origin.
    I'm sure. Lots of studies of different things seem to show that the effect of nature vs nurture is typically 50:50. Obviously there are some things where genetics has an almost 100% control, and others where it has none. But most traits seem to be bunched around the middle somewhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I am curious if there have been any ethical experiments on the extent of learned behaviors and inherent ones.
    There have been studies of twins who have been brought up in very different circumstances. I don't really know much about the results. Popular reports seem to focus on the aspects that confirm popular beliefs (ending up in the same job, having the same mannerisms, etc.)

    Ah, then we're good.
    Phew!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    There have been studies of twins who have been brought up in very different circumstances. I don't really know much about the results. Popular reports seem to focus on the aspects that confirm popular beliefs (ending up in the same job, having the same mannerisms, etc.
    See...
    That's what sucks. I mean really- it Sucks.
    Very, very little gets reported objectively.
    How many ideas do I have that I take for granted that are actually misconceptions- currently- that I don't even know are misconceptions?
    I can't count on both hands and feet how many times I've blurted one out - like here on this forum, for example, only to find out I dun got taught it all wrong...
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    [QUOTE=Strange;433099]
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I am curious if there have been any ethical experiments on the extent of learned behaviors and inherent ones.
    There have been studies of twins who have been brought up in very different circumstances. I don't really know much about the results. Popular reports seem to focus on the aspects that confirm popular beliefs (ending up in the same job, having the same mannerisms, etc.)

    Yes, I have read of some instances where twins separated at birth and raised by different families and reunited and have the same desires, make the same choices in foods and clothing and other things.....quite interesting...human behaviour
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Yes, I have read of some instances where twins separated at birth and raised by different families and reunited and have the same desires, make the same choices in foods and clothing and other things.....quite interesting...human behaviour
    On the other hand (anecdotal) I have known identical twins that had very different styles and tastes.
    Though, I wondered if they did so under the influence of trying to be different from their twin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Yes, I have read of some instances where twins separated at birth and raised by different families and reunited and have the same desires, make the same choices in foods and clothing and other things.....quite interesting...human behaviour
    On the other hand (anecdotal) I have known identical twins that had very different styles and tastes.
    Though, I wondered if they did so under the influence of trying to be different from their twin.
    maternal or fraternal?
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    Oh... I don't know...
    It's why anecdote does not equal evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    I'm sure. Lots of studies of different things seem to show that the effect of nature vs nurture is typically 50:50. Obviously there are some things where genetics has an almost 100% control, and others where it has none. But most traits seem to be bunched around the middle somewhere.
    Indeed. Most of my ancestors had two legs. Some say my grandfather had a wooden leg, although others say that was just a matter of a pinion.
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    That's awful.
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  40. #39  
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    Identical twins can appear and behave differently at birth because of different experiences in the womb that affect DNA expression. DNA differences start in the womb | Science Illustrated
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    It was already confirmed many times that if your parents are mentally ill, you have inherited a tendency to become mentally ill like them. You have to follow psychotherapy from the beginning of your life if you want to avoid repeating your parentsí mistakes, and the mistakes of the human race. Besides having inherited absurdity from birth, you also are influenced by your social environment. You live in a crazy world based on materialism and selfishness. This means that you tend to accept absurdity in your life, without criticizing your decisions. Therefore, you have to deal with an inherited content, and with the absurdity of your environment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    It was already confirmed many times that if your parents are mentally ill, you have inherited a tendency to become mentally ill like them.
    This is not completely true:
    Some mental illness arises from environmental factors.
    The genetic source of the mental instability may not be inherited, or if it is, it may not be expressed.
    The genetic source may arise from a new mutation.

    So, in summary, your statement is inaccurate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    It was already confirmed many times that if your parents are mentally ill, you have inherited a tendency to become mentally ill like them.
    This is not completely true:
    Some mental illness arises from environmental factors.
    The genetic source of the mental instability may not be inherited, or if it is, it may not be expressed.
    The genetic source may arise from a new mutation.

    So, in summary, your statement is inaccurate.

    Carl Jung discovered that the mentally ill inherit absurdity from birth.

    Konrad Lorenz discovered that human beings follow instinctive behavioral patterns, what means that the human behavior is predetermined. Thus,inherited. I could give you many other examples…

    Mental illnesses are inherited, but the individual’s environment also plays an important role for the formation of mental disorders.
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    No one with mental illness in any of my family.....damn...I am safe....

    I don't consider sheer stupidity mental illness, by the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    Carl Jung discovered that the mentally ill inherit absurdity from birth.
    Konrad Lorenz discovered that human beings follow instinctive behavioral patterns, what means that the human behavior is predetermined. Thus,inherited. I could give you many other examples…
    Mental illnesses are inherited, but the individual’s environment also plays an important role for the formation of mental disorders.
    I'm not anti as anti-Jung as some are. He was far more philosopher than scientist. But I think he was pretty on the ball for his time... Not necessarily accurate- but on the ball.
    I agree that humans follow instinctive behavior patterns and many studies have demonstrated this- however, a great deal of our behavior is mimicry and learned, as well. Human behavior is not pre-determined.

    Your last line points this out- that while some mental illness seem as though they can be inherited, others... not really. Environment can play a role and so can circumstances - where a particular deficiency or toxicity in a person resulted in imbalance in the brain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    Carl Jung discovered that the mentally ill inherit absurdity from birth.
    Carl Jung is not well regarded today in relation to theories regarding mental health, though I'll grant him a small edge over Freud. However, my aunt Matilda has a better understanding of mind than Freud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    Konrad Lorenz discovered that human beings follow instinctive behavioral patterns, what means that the human behavior is predetermined.
    This discovery was not the work of Lorenz. He and Tinbergen revisited concepts that had been explored a century before, then largely abandoned in the years following WW1. Moreover, Lorenz focused primarily on animal behaviour, rather than humans: he was essentially an ornithologist.

    More to the point, discovering that much repetitive or consistent behavioour is instinctive does not mean that all behaviour is instinctive. So, your statement that human behaviour is predetermined is false, because it takes what is true in specific cases and makes it general, and quite ignores the human ability to resist instinctive reactions in some instances, or to have many behaviours that are learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    Mental illnesses are inherited, but the individual’s environment also plays an important role for the formation of mental disorders.
    Again, you are generalising. Because some mental illnesses are inherited it does not mean all are. Because one or both parents had a mental illness, does not mean their children will.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    [oh, never mind JG said it better]
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    Carl Jung discovered that the mentally ill inherit absurdity from birth.
    Carl Jung is not well regarded today in relation to theories regarding mental health, though I'll grant him a small edge over Freud. However, my aunt Matilda has a better understanding of mind than Freud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    Konrad Lorenz discovered that human beings follow instinctive behavioral patterns, what means that the human behavior is predetermined.
    This discovery was not the work of Lorenz. He and Tinbergen revisited concepts that had been explored a century before, then largely abandoned in the years following WW1. Moreover, Lorenz focused primarily on animal behaviour, rather than humans: he was essentially an ornithologist.

    More to the point, discovering that much repetitive or consistent behavioour is instinctive does not mean that all behaviour is instinctive. So, your statement that human behaviour is predetermined is false, because it takes what is true in specific cases and makes it general, and quite ignores the human ability to resist instinctive reactions in some instances, or to have many behaviours that are learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    Mental illnesses are inherited, but the individual’s environment also plays an important role for the formation of mental disorders.
    Again, you are generalising. Because some mental illnesses are inherited it does not mean all are. Because one or both parents had a mental illness, does not mean their children will.

    New discoveries prove that Carl Jung was right in many points.

    Lorenz studied the human behavior too.

    The environment plays a big role for the formation of mental illnesses, but we all inherit absurdity from birth, especially when our parents are mentally ill.

    This absurdity can invade our conscience when we have traumatic experiences because we don't criticize our thoughts when we are depressed or angry. Our environment and our personal experiences cause mental illnesses because we have inherited abnormal tendencies. If we didn't have an absurd psychological system we would be able to solve our problems without becoming mentally ill.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    New discoveries prove that Carl Jung was right in many points.
    Citation needed.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    In addition , the definition of mental illness changes over time (not too long ago, homosexuality was considered a mental illness in western culture) and from culture to culture. Plus, the criteria for diagnosing mental illnesses are not as cut and dry as those for physical illnesses, so you can have borderline cases, and social stigma against mental illness means more cases go undiagnosed. Therefore, statistics re mental illness will be less accurate.
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    New discoveries prove that Carl Jung was right in many points.
    News just in. A stopped clock is right twice a day.

    Though I can't think of anyone citing Jung in a paper - whatever instances there may be of research "confirming" Jung's findings - I cannot believe that any such research has validated the woo woo reasoning Jung wallowed in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponias View Post
    The environment plays a big role for the formation of mental illnesses, but we all inherit absurdity from birth, especially when our parents are mentally ill.
    This absurdity can invade our conscience when we have traumatic experiences because we don't criticize our thoughts when we are depressed or angry. Our environment and our personal experiences cause mental illnesses because we have inherited abnormal tendencies. If we didn't have an absurd psychological system we would be able to solve our problems without becoming mentally ill.
    This is the best description of religion and the belief in God you've posted yet.
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