April 8th, 2013, 09:36 PM
Oh well the title says pretty much everything... Do you think that people can change who they are? For example: if someone has been an a**hole the first 18 years of his life, do you think he can change? Or if he cheated all his girlfriends, do you think he can be loyal to his new one?
I personally do not think that people can change, they can just mask their true personality for a while.
I`m looking forward to see your thoughts about this.
I believe that people can change for a variety of reasons.
For example, brain damage. That can drastically change someones personality.
But people have a remarkable ability for "fixation."
If you fixate on an idea, you can effect changes in your behavior. The process is not immediate and that lack of immediate change is what creates confusion.
It usually takes someone an average of 7 to 10 years to really change something about the way they think.
So if a guy was racist all his life, then realizes (it clicks into place that it's not proper and why it is not proper) he can become non-racist.
But the process of becoming non-racist would take him about a decade, give or take.
He will start out having to conscientiously remind himself.
He will then go on to usually having to remind himself.
Eventually, he will go on to only sometimes catching himself when he slips back into the old way of thinking.
And after that, his brain will finally accept the new programming and think in non-racist terms.
It's much faster and much easier to revert back to an old way of thinking, then to adopt new ways of thinking.
People change all the time.
A "true personality" is, at least, partially dependent on those you associate with.
Change those and you change yourself. To some extent.
Your attitude and behaviour will alter.
Plus, of course, you change regardless as you age and acquire experiences and knowledge.
Do you think that "you" have the same personality as you did when you were two years old? How about ten years old? How do you think you'll be at 28? 48?
At which age is your personality your "true" one if it's not the same throughout your life?
And then we get into other things...
Depression, for example...
yes, we change
and, yet, we are always the same
........................................
long ago I used to have dreams the awoke me as nightmares
2 that i learned from had to do with the give and take of love
the push and pull if you will
one involved how small frivilous actions can have a big impact, and really big efforts can have none at all
----------i lost my first wife because I could not change---------then, I changed---too damned late for that one
and she told me (years later) that the cruelest thing I ever did was laugh when she was really angry with me.
sad, how some things work out
unintended cruelty, may just be the worst of all
You haven`t read my examples, you didn`t get what I mean, you just came here to contradict me.Originally Posted by Dywyddyr
Yet yeah, Im the same I was at 12 years old, but with alot more experience than I was back then. My personality remained the same, the only thing that changed is the way I act when I`m in a situation.
If you really want to blow your mind, consider the decades. You're not the same person you were three years ago.
Or even three weeks ago.
As a colony of single cell creatures that, in a communistic manner, use you to survive and feed them, you change constantly, but usually in very subtle ways.
So with all this changing around, how often is it that, by chance, you're the exact same person as someone else on the planet at the same time?
If you really want to blow your mind, consider the decades. You're not the same person you were three years ago.
Or even three weeks ago.
As a colony of single cell creatures that, in a communistic manner, use you to survive and feed them, you change constantly, but usually in very subtle ways.
So with all this changing around, how often is it that, by chance, you're the exact same person as someone else on the planet at the same time?
Mindblow... Looking at it this way the chance is pretty big. But considering that the evil cells that use me do not have the same DNA with the evil cells that control you we cannot be the same person.
Wrong.
Also wrong.you didn`t get what I mean
Wanna take a guess here?you just came here to contradict me.
Really?Yet yeah, Im the same I was at 12 years old, but with alot more experience than I was back then.
You get upset over the same things?
You get excited about the same things?
You expect to be treated the same way?
Do you still treat others the same as you did?
Er, isn't "how you act in certain situations" dependent on your personality?My personality remained the same, the only thing that changed is the way I act when I`m in a situation.
Wiki defines personality as the particular combination of emotional, attitudinal, and behavioral response patterns of an individual.
Which of those are currently the same in you NOW as they were when you were 12?
It goes further (under personality development): and says that it's an aggregate conglomeration of the decisions they have made throughout their life and the memory of the experiences to which these decisions led.
In other words your personality alters (develops) due to the listed factors.
Personality develops, but does not change. You make new friends, experiences etc. That I agree with. But if you are introvert for example, you can`t be the most social person on the planet the next day.Wrong.
I dun think so
Also wrong.you didn`t get what I mean
I dun think so
Wanna take a guess here?you just came here to contradict me.
Really?Yet yeah, Im the same I was at 12 years old, but with alot more experience than I was back then.
You get upset over the same things?
Yes, exact same things
You get excited about the same things?
Yes, a few more added
You expect to be treated the same way?
Kind of
Do you still treat others the same as you did?
Yes
Er, isn't "how you act in certain situations" dependent on your personality?My personality remained the same, the only thing that changed is the way I act when I`m in a situation.
Wiki defines personality as the particular combination of emotional, attitudinal, and behavioral response patterns of an individual.
Which of those are currently the same in you NOW as they were when you were 12?
emotional and atitudinal are the same.
It goes further (under personality development): and says that it's an aggregate conglomeration of the decisions they have made throughout their life and the memory of the experiences to which these decisions led.
In other words your personality alters (develops) due to the listed factors.
I still do not believe that you understood what I meant.
So essentially you're saying that you're an 18 year-old who behaves like a 12 year-old.
Still choose the same dresses?
The same toys?
Exactly the same taste in food?
Really?emotional and atitudinal are the same.
You burst into tears if you don't get your own way?
How can it develop without changing?Personality develops, but does not change.
You appear not to have read Neverfly's reply.But if you are introvert for example, you can`t be the most social person on the planet the next day.
I'll quote the pertinent part - If you fixate on an idea, you can effect changes in your behavior. The process is not immediate and that lack of immediate change is what creates confusion.
If someone is an introvert they can learn to be sociable. And come to enjoy it.
I did, but you are, so far, basing your argument on a falsehood.I still do not believe that you understood what I meant.
You're asking about specific change - until you accept that change DOES happen, and can be controlled to some extent then you're not going to get it.
Re-read Neverfly's reply. And sculptor's.
So essentially you're saying that you're an 18 year-old who behaves like a 12 year-old.
Nope. Essentially I have the same attitude as I had then. I do not behave the same way, I just FEEL the same way.
Still choose the same dresses?
The same toys?
Exactly the same taste in food?
Really?emotional and atitudinal are the same.
You burst into tears if you don't get your own way?
Nope, but I feel like doing so.
How can it develop without changing?Personality develops, but does not change.
The root stays the same. Then you get experience and adjust things to it.
You appear not to have read Neverfly's reply.But if you are introvert for example, you can`t be the most social person on the planet the next day.
I'll quote the pertinent part - If you fixate on an idea, you can effect changes in your behavior. The process is not immediate and that lack of immediate change is what creates confusion.
If someone is an introvert they can learn to be sociable. And come to enjoy it.
I read their posts, I just do not agree with it. If you read my first post you`d see I think the idea of changing is just a phase and I think the person turns back into what they used to be.
I did, but you are, so far, basing your argument on a falsehood.I still do not believe that you understood what I meant.
You're asking about specific change - until you accept that change DOES happen, and can be controlled to some extent then you're not going to get it.
Re-read Neverfly's reply. And sculptor's.
This is the last post I`m replying, because you`re here just to piss me off, and I get pissed off as fast as I got pissed off 6 years ago. The difference is that now I can ignore you.
Believe me, Dywyddyr has plenty of people on this forum to contradict. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you are so important to him that he would go out of his way to pick on you. There are at least 12 other cranks in line ahead of you.You haven`t read my examples, you didn`t get what I mean, you just came here to contradict me.
Yet yeah, Im the same I was at 12 years old, but with alot more experience than I was back then. My personality remained the same, the only thing that changed is the way I act when I`m in a situation.
The way you act in a situation is an attribute of your personality. And your personality does evolve as you gain experiences. I know I am not the same person I was at 18. I may have been the same person at 18 as I was at 12, but a lot happened between 18 and 37. Maybe you feel the same because you haven't had enough varied experiences to have made much of a difference in your life. Have a few life changing events and you will find you cannot go back to being who you were before.
Have you ever had to face your own mortality? Have you ever had someone die in your arms? Have you held your own first born child yet? Have you ever broken the heart of someone that truly loved you? Have you ever really loved anyone only to have them turn out to be something other than what you believed them to be? Have you ever had to take someone's life? Have you ever wanted to? These are all major events that can be life and personality changing.
It's true, basic personality traits may never change, but behaviors do. Belief systems do. Perceptions do. And all these things are what make a person who they are.
A basic personality trait may be stubbornness. But you can have two stubborn people who are complete opposites. One may be stubborn in that they will not do what they are told to do and the other will never disobey an order. They are both stubborn but not the same.
So someone who cheats today may not cheat tomorrow, but cheating is a behavior. It's what drives one to cheat that you need to understand. Do they cheat because they are selfish? because they are insecure? because they are hormone driven? because they are addicted to breaking rules? There can be any number of motivations for cheating. Just as there can be any number of causes for fever and nausea. You can treat the symptoms or you can treat the cause. But you have to know what the cause is to know which is more practical to treat.
People can change by choice or by chance. I have changed by both. I still retain some basic personality traits, inquisitiveness, pragmatic, creative. But my naivety, insecurities, and emotional imbalance has diminished, while my logic, skepticism, confidence, and problem solving skills have increased dramatically. And more importantly, my motivations have completely changed. When I was a child, I only wanted other people to like me and I wanted lots of friends. Now I don't care if they like me so long as they are not inclined to want to kill me. And I don't care to make friends unless they can be as much use to me as I am to them. This is fair and logical and ensures a pragmatic predictable and long lasting simbiant relationship. I reserve emotional closeness only for those in my immediate family. My parents, my children and my husband. Everyone else is expendable.
Even the choice to conceal one's true nature is part of their personality. So for one to decide to conceal after not having done so is an indication that they have changed in some small way.
edit: I really do need to read the whole thread before jumping in I guess. This is what I get for taking a week break. Apparently i just repeated what has already been said to this self proclaimed 18 going on 12 year old who thinks she knows more about the world than those of us with far more experience. Ah the good ole days. I remember 18.... back when I knew everything and anyone over the age of 30 was a complete moron.
we do change subtlety over time. A good example is I knew a "girl" that cheated with many people. Now she is married and is loyal to one. She took many years to change. And one good loyal heart and a change in location to do it. But she is not a cheater any more. Over time we do change. All change some for the better and some for the worse. Its hard to tell what way one changes. Only time will tell us. Please don't say you look forward to our thoughts and get mad over something we write about.
That's a misunderstanding of the way introverts work. Introverts can be the liveliest person in a group, even if several of them are extroverts. The big question is what happens next. The introvert will be tired and maybe have a nap the next afternoon to recover the energy they over-extended themselves with. No chance of going out on a similar excursion the next day. The extroverts? They'll go home happy and energised, ready, willing and able to do it all again.But if you are introvert for example, you can`t be the most social person on the planet the next day.
There's more to the difference than how the person appears to be - introverts are simply making an effort when they behave the same way as others who do that effortessly.
As for general personality changes. We do change as we get older, sometimes profoundly. Just ask some men who've taught themselves - or learned from the women in their lives - to become quite committed feminists when they were previously fairly vocal anti-feminists. They change their behaviour, their vocabulary and their attitudes. As Neverfly said, this can take real work over several years, but it's a real choice and they work at it. Once that behaviour becomes habitual, they really are not the same personality as they were before.
Your personality is expressed and displayed by many things. The way you speak, the words you do and don't use, the people you do or don't respect or pay attention to, if you are now rude/polite or confident/fearful where you previously were polite/rude or fearful/confident - when all these features of your thinking and your behaviour have changed - you have a different personality.
Change happens to those people who want to change themselves. If they see that they cannot get what they want from life going about it one way they will adapt and find other ways to get what it is they are after. That includes bettering themselves but not others around them because the only thing in life you can change is yourself.
In other words you're going to stick with your UNSUPPORTED belief regardless of what anyone says.
Then why did you bother to ask?
My apologies.This is the last post I`m replying, because you`re here just to piss me off, and I get pissed off as fast as I got pissed off 6 years ago. The difference is that now I can ignore you.
You evidently DO have the same behaviour as you did as a 12 year old.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that you do, eventually, mature.
Don't forget, a finger in each ear and the words are "la la la".
Evil?
Anyway- different DNA- yes. But defining a person by their beliefs, behaviors, quirks and personality- it is possible to have all the same and have different DNA just as you can have the same DNA and different beliefs and personalities- Twins.
YOU are a complete moron by saying THAT. I like talking and asking them stuffs, else I wouldn`t be here, I`d be in a club with my friends. I do not believe that I know more than anyone here, that`s why I`m here asking stuffs, not out doing something else. That`s rather offensive you know.Believe me, Dywyddyr has plenty of people on this forum to contradict. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you are so important to him that he would go out of his way to pick on you. There are at least 12 other cranks in line ahead of you.You haven`t read my examples, you didn`t get what I mean, you just came here to contradict me.
Yet yeah, Im the same I was at 12 years old, but with alot more experience than I was back then. My personality remained the same, the only thing that changed is the way I act when I`m in a situation.
The way you act in a situation is an attribute of your personality. And your personality does evolve as you gain experiences. I know I am not the same person I was at 18. I may have been the same person at 18 as I was at 12, but a lot happened between 18 and 37. Maybe you feel the same because you haven't had enough varied experiences to have made much of a difference in your life. Have a few life changing events and you will find you cannot go back to being who you were before.
Have you ever had to face your own mortality? Have you ever had someone die in your arms? Have you held your own first born child yet? Have you ever broken the heart of someone that truly loved you? Have you ever really loved anyone only to have them turn out to be something other than what you believed them to be? Have you ever had to take someone's life? Have you ever wanted to? These are all major events that can be life and personality changing.
It's true, basic personality traits may never change, but behaviors do. Belief systems do. Perceptions do. And all these things are what make a person who they are.
This is pretty much what I`m trying to say.
A basic personality trait may be stubbornness. But you can have two stubborn people who are complete opposites. One may be stubborn in that they will not do what they are told to do and the other will never disobey an order. They are both stubborn but not the same.
So someone who cheats today may not cheat tomorrow, but cheating is a behavior. It's what drives one to cheat that you need to understand. Do they cheat because they are selfish? because they are insecure? because they are hormone driven? because they are addicted to breaking rules? There can be any number of motivations for cheating. Just as there can be any number of causes for fever and nausea. You can treat the symptoms or you can treat the cause. But you have to know what the cause is to know which is more practical to treat.
People can change by choice or by chance. I have changed by both. I still retain some basic personality traits, inquisitiveness, pragmatic, creative. But my naivety, insecurities, and emotional imbalance has diminished, while my logic, skepticism, confidence, and problem solving skills have increased dramatically. And more importantly, my motivations have completely changed. When I was a child, I only wanted other people to like me and I wanted lots of friends. Now I don't care if they like me so long as they are not inclined to want to kill me. And I don't care to make friends unless they can be as much use to me as I am to them. This is fair and logical and ensures a pragmatic predictable and long lasting simbiant relationship. I reserve emotional closeness only for those in my immediate family. My parents, my children and my husband. Everyone else is expendable.
Even the choice to conceal one's true nature is part of their personality. So for one to decide to conceal after not having done so is an indication that they have changed in some small way.
edit: I really do need to read the whole thread before jumping in I guess. This is what I get for taking a week break. Apparently i just repeated what has already been said to this self proclaimed 18 going on 12 year old who thinks she knows more about the world than those of us with far more experience. Ah the good ole days. I remember 18.... back when I knew everything and anyone over the age of 30 was a complete moron.
In other words you're going to stick with your UNSUPPORTED belief regardless of what anyone says.
Then why did you bother to ask?
I was curious about what you guys thought. And they are not unsupported, my life experience tells me that the basic personality never changes
My apologies.This is the last post I`m replying, because you`re here just to piss me off, and I get pissed off as fast as I got pissed off 6 years ago. The difference is that now I can ignore you.
You evidently DO have the same behaviour as you did as a 12 year old.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that you do, eventually, mature.
Don't forget, a finger in each ear and the words are "la la la".I named them evil without reason.Evil?
Anyway- different DNA- yes. But defining a person by their beliefs, behaviors, quirks and personality- it is possible to have all the same and have different DNA just as you can have the same DNA and different beliefs and personalities- Twins.
Hmm, let's see.
You stated: I read their posts, I just do not agree with it. If you read my first post you`d see I think the idea of changing is just a phase and I think the person turns back into what they used to be.Apparently i just repeated what has already been said to this self proclaimed 18 going on 12 year old who thinks she knows more about the world than those of us with far more experience.
In other words you have dismissed, without reason, all the arguments put to you.
You have, despite asking the question, decided that your (unsupported) opinion is correct.
You have, for no reason, insulted Seagypsy, simply because she has stated what is blatantly obvious to anyone reading this thread.
You: I like talking and asking them stuffs
Yep, you ASK. And then ignore what's been said.
You: else I wouldn`t be here
So WHY are you here? You're obviously not here to find out facts.
You: I do not believe that I know more than anyone here
Also obviously false since you have stated that you're going to stick with your belief AGAINST the evidence presented simply because you BELIEVE that you're right. You believe that your OPINION is more accurate than the reasoned and supported posts you received in answer to your your question. In other words - you know more than the rest of us put together.
You have not, anywhere in this thread offered anything other than opinion.
No supporting links, no reasoned argument, no attempt whatsoever at justifying your opinion. Just "I believe this, and I'm right".
Last edited by Dywyddyr; April 9th, 2013 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Oops, brain fart.
Nor have you convinced me with links and reasoned arguments that people can change.Hmm, let's see.
You stated: I read their posts, I just do not agree with it. If you read my first post you`d see I think the idea of changing is just a phase and I think the person turns back into what they used to be.Apparently i just repeated what has already been said to this self proclaimed 18 going on 12 year old who thinks she knows more about the world than those of us with far more experience.
In other words you have dismissed, without reason, all the arguments put to you.
You have, despite asking the question, decided that your (unsupported) opinion is correct.
You have, for no reason, insulted Adelady, simply because she has stated what is blatantly obvious to anyone reading this thread.
You: I like talking and asking them stuffs
Yep, you ASK. And then ignore what's been said.
I do not ignore anything, else I wouldn`t be here still replying to someone that is constantly trying to annoy me.
You: else I wouldn`t be here
So WHY are you here? You're obviously not here to find out facts.
I am here to find out anyone else`s but yours.
You: I do not believe that I know more than anyone here
Also obviously false since you have stated that you're going to stick with your belief AGAINST the evidence presented simply because you BELIEVE that you're right. You believe that your OPINION is more accurate than the reasoned and supported posts you received in answer to your your question. In other words - you know more than the rest of us put together.
Nope, I did think of what Neverfly thinks, and I almost agreed with him, then it popped me up this following example:
My ex`s bf was an alcoholic 10 years ago. When his wife almost killed him with an axe, he quitted drinking til 1 year ago, when he came back to his true self and started drinking again. All he needed was a trigger to make himself go back to what "normal" is to him.
You have not, anywhere in this thread offered anything other than opinion.
No supporting links, no reasoned argument, no attempt whatsoever at justifying your opinion. Just "I believe this, and I'm right".
Yet you still stick with your belief, without presenting any reasoning whatsoever.
Facts are facts. You've heard the same from others as you have from me.I am here to find out anyone else`s but yours.
Yeah of course.Nope, I did think of what Neverfly thinks, and I almost agreed with him, then it popped me up this following example:
My ex`s bf was an alcoholic 10 years ago. When his wife almost killed him with an axe, he quitted drinking til 1 year ago, when he came back to his true self and started drinking again. All he needed was a trigger to make himself go back to what "normal" is to him.
Because one single unsourced story invalidates an entire concept.
That's right. Because you have your unsupported, irrational, anti-factual belief.Nor have you convinced me with links and reasoned arguments that people can change.
You're not interested in facts, nor science, just confirmation of what you've already decided you're going to accept as the "truth".
False, I am interested in facts and science, and even if I agree with you, I`ll never say it straight to your face because you are too offensive and that is annoying.Yet you still stick with your belief, without presenting any reasoning whatsoever.
Facts are facts. You've heard the same from others as you have from me.I am here to find out anyone else`s but yours.
Yeah of course.Nope, I did think of what Neverfly thinks, and I almost agreed with him, then it popped me up this following example:
My ex`s bf was an alcoholic 10 years ago. When his wife almost killed him with an axe, he quitted drinking til 1 year ago, when he came back to his true self and started drinking again. All he needed was a trigger to make himself go back to what "normal" is to him.
Because one single unsourced story invalidates an entire concept.
That and many other. It is personal experience that makes me think that.
That's right. Because you have your unsupported, irrational, anti-factual belief.Nor have you convinced me with links and reasoned arguments that people can change.
You're not interested in facts, nor science, just confirmation of what you've already decided you're going to accept as the "truth".
Then start behaving as if that were true.
Right. Because you can't separate yourself from your beliefs.because you are too offensive and that is annoying.
Yes. Absolutely.
I'm ignoring all the arguing in between this post and the last one. I just wanted to say that people may find difficulty in changing themselves of their own free will, but experiences can certainly change them.
My example; a guy I knew in high school. Athlete, not particularly nice to people. Drank a lot, partied a lot, stuck to his clique (which didn't involve me). Then, years later on my college campus, someone rolls up to me in an electric wheelchair, paralyzed from the waist down. Calls out my name and, very soft spoken and polite, says it's good to see me again and asks me how I'm doing. After a few moments, I realized that the skinny guy in the wheel chair is the ex-football player/wrestler from high school. Drunk driving accident took away his ability to walk.
I spoke with him for probably 10 minutes, during which time I found him to be not only very polite, but a great listener. These were certainly not qualities the loudmouth version of him shared in high school.
Now, it's impossible to say that he was not always some soft-spoken polite person who masked his true personality with a rude one, but if the only change was the superficial mask he put on to impress others, it was a change nonetheless.
some change is rather radical, and we don't even notice it when it is happening.
when I came home from the army, my mother said that i had fundamentally changed. I heard the same comment from my uncle(the one who was more like a father to me)
I had heard that "you could never go home again"
The place and people were still there, but the me who had lived there before wasn't.
Ah and telling people they are complete morons just because you don't understand or like the answers they are giving you isn't offensive? I also see you admit you will never admit to agreeing with someone you don't like. Apparently you will let your ego guide you rather than the facts you claim to be searching for. You need to get over yourself little one. It will make life much easier for you. And running into a room of people that have established a code of ethics and demanding they cater to your juvenile whims is asinine at best.YOU are a complete moron by saying THAT. I like talking and asking them stuffs, else I wouldn`t be here, I`d be in a club with my friends. I do not believe that I know more than anyone here, that`s why I`m here asking stuffs, not out doing something else. That`s rather offensive you know.Believe me, Dywyddyr has plenty of people on this forum to contradict. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you are so important to him that he would go out of his way to pick on you. There are at least 12 other cranks in line ahead of you.You haven`t read my examples, you didn`t get what I mean, you just came here to contradict me.
Yet yeah, Im the same I was at 12 years old, but with alot more experience than I was back then. My personality remained the same, the only thing that changed is the way I act when I`m in a situation.
The way you act in a situation is an attribute of your personality. And your personality does evolve as you gain experiences. I know I am not the same person I was at 18. I may have been the same person at 18 as I was at 12, but a lot happened between 18 and 37. Maybe you feel the same because you haven't had enough varied experiences to have made much of a difference in your life. Have a few life changing events and you will find you cannot go back to being who you were before.
Have you ever had to face your own mortality? Have you ever had someone die in your arms? Have you held your own first born child yet? Have you ever broken the heart of someone that truly loved you? Have you ever really loved anyone only to have them turn out to be something other than what you believed them to be? Have you ever had to take someone's life? Have you ever wanted to? These are all major events that can be life and personality changing.
It's true, basic personality traits may never change, but behaviors do. Belief systems do. Perceptions do. And all these things are what make a person who they are.
This is pretty much what I`m trying to say.
A basic personality trait may be stubbornness. But you can have two stubborn people who are complete opposites. One may be stubborn in that they will not do what they are told to do and the other will never disobey an order. They are both stubborn but not the same.
So someone who cheats today may not cheat tomorrow, but cheating is a behavior. It's what drives one to cheat that you need to understand. Do they cheat because they are selfish? because they are insecure? because they are hormone driven? because they are addicted to breaking rules? There can be any number of motivations for cheating. Just as there can be any number of causes for fever and nausea. You can treat the symptoms or you can treat the cause. But you have to know what the cause is to know which is more practical to treat.
People can change by choice or by chance. I have changed by both. I still retain some basic personality traits, inquisitiveness, pragmatic, creative. But my naivety, insecurities, and emotional imbalance has diminished, while my logic, skepticism, confidence, and problem solving skills have increased dramatically. And more importantly, my motivations have completely changed. When I was a child, I only wanted other people to like me and I wanted lots of friends. Now I don't care if they like me so long as they are not inclined to want to kill me. And I don't care to make friends unless they can be as much use to me as I am to them. This is fair and logical and ensures a pragmatic predictable and long lasting simbiant relationship. I reserve emotional closeness only for those in my immediate family. My parents, my children and my husband. Everyone else is expendable.
Even the choice to conceal one's true nature is part of their personality. So for one to decide to conceal after not having done so is an indication that they have changed in some small way.
edit: I really do need to read the whole thread before jumping in I guess. This is what I get for taking a week break. Apparently i just repeated what has already been said to this self proclaimed 18 going on 12 year old who thinks she knows more about the world than those of us with far more experience. Ah the good ole days. I remember 18.... back when I knew everything and anyone over the age of 30 was a complete moron.
In other words you're going to stick with your UNSUPPORTED belief regardless of what anyone says.
Then why did you bother to ask?
I was curious about what you guys thought. And they are not unsupported, my life experience tells me that the basic personality never changes
My apologies.This is the last post I`m replying, because you`re here just to piss me off, and I get pissed off as fast as I got pissed off 6 years ago. The difference is that now I can ignore you.
You evidently DO have the same behaviour as you did as a 12 year old.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that you do, eventually, mature.
Don't forget, a finger in each ear and the words are "la la la".I named them evil without reason.Evil?
Anyway- different DNA- yes. But defining a person by their beliefs, behaviors, quirks and personality- it is possible to have all the same and have different DNA just as you can have the same DNA and different beliefs and personalities- Twins.
In any case being called a moron by the likes of you doesn't hurt my feelings any. I remember how often I called people morons when I was your age. Only to discover the ones I insulted the most where the ones I should have been listening to all along. But you can learn about reality the hard way like I did. I hope you have fun falling on your face and embarrassing yourself a lot like I did. Because you are a lot like I was at your age. Full of stupid and mistaking it for smart. You will likely get your first painful dose of reality by the age of 24 if not sooner. Mine was at 19 but I didn't realize or learn anything from it til I was 24. And I was 30 before I realized my mother actually knew a few things. And even now, I come here to harvest as much wisdom and knowledge from those older than me as I can. Because I am still a baby compared to many of the minds on here. And at no point is anyone too old to learn.
Of course people can change, even at times in a very dramatic way very quickly. As Neverfly stated earlier, it can take 7-10 years for a major psychological change without an alteration to biology? "Correct me if I'm wrong NF, hell, go ahead and rail on me if I'm wrong." I think that is false, for a few situations. Listed in chronologically with letters :P (A) Depression, this is something that can absolutely ravage someone and completely change their aspirations/opinion on life/attitude/irritability/commitment/emotional responses, and even intelligence. (B) Substance addictions, can alter many of the things listed in the first example. (C) Loss of family member, friend of mine lost his dad when he was around 12, hasn't cared about any career paths since, and is a very volatile person with little emotional control. (D) Reading philosophy/science, many things can alter someone's behavior, but philosophy/science can change their perspective on existence itself, and at times cause them to feel inferior/isolated/careless/less religious. It sounds from the OP that you're asking about someone you've dated before, and are considering dating again. To that, I say phuck it, to me that's like shooting at a M1 Abrams tank with a .22, feeling sad that the first shot wasn't perfect, and feeling compelled to take another one.
Only a couple of minor corrections. Depression and addiction are both biological (biochemical) changes. Whether it is cause or effect I don't know, but they are certainly biological changes. Losing a family member could be argued that it is biological as well considering the event likely caused depression which was your first example. Losing the father caused changes both biologically as well as circumstantial. His perspectives on life would have been changed, he hopes for the future taken away, and he will no longer get to experience life with his dad. How he allows the even to change him was a choice he made, even if subconscious. When he is ready, he can choose to change for the better. But he will have to be able to perceive that choice is available to him.Of course people can change, even at times in a very dramatic way very quickly. As Neverfly stated earlier, it can take 7-10 years for a major psychological change without an alteration to biology? "Correct me if I'm wrong NF, hell, go ahead and rail on me if I'm wrong." I think that is false, for a few situations. Listed in chronologically with letters :P (A) Depression, this is something that can absolutely ravage someone and completely change their aspirations/opinion on life/attitude/irritability/commitment/emotional responses, and even intelligence. (B) Substance addictions, can alter many of the things listed in the first example. (C) Loss of family member, friend of mine lost his dad when he was around 12, hasn't cared about any career paths since, and is a very volatile person with little emotional control. (D) Reading philosophy/science, many things can alter someone's behavior, but philosophy/science can change their perspective on existence itself, and at times cause them to feel inferior/isolated/careless/less religious
Shlunka- I was referring to willful or conscientious change.
I also pointed out that altering the brain can change a person.
Your last example- Learning. Even after your perspective has changed, it will take years before your mind actually accepts that change.
Some of, what I think is, the OP's confusion seems to be based on a few assumptions about the Big 5, or some or other model of personality traits...People, indeed, change over time - specifically their personality. OP, what you are describing is only half-true and that is why you are wholly wrong. You seem to be suggesting that there is an underlying set of predispositions which describe how we interact with the world, and what changes is how we express those predispositions - this is true... But it also begs to question - where did the predispositions (traits) come from?Of course, it's that detestable question that's always staring at us: Is it nature, or nurture? The answer is always both.So in the context of personality psychology, that tells us something important: Traits are both environmentally, and genetically influenced. All of them. Some are more genetic, others are more environmental - introversion/extraversion being more genetic. That would suggest that whatever your personality was at age 12, is similar to the personality you have now - but it is not the same, as it is implied that personality gradually changes over time.
No one can change Nature/ behavior of people is constant & remain same
It is different conditions where we react differently
If some one help me I would behave according to that condition
If some one hate me I would behave according to that condition
Every one learn from experience according to with his/her nature
Every one has constant fundamental behavior and reacts/works according to his nature
A person live with criminal people, He would would behaver according to his nature which is particular for such situation
If same person live in a gentlemen society , he would react according to his nature set for such situation
Our fundamental nature is constant, it behave according to the conditions it meet
More unsupported belief?
Oh sorry, it's not an unsupported belief - it's one known to be false.
Unless, of course, the definition of "fundamental nature" that you're using is so nebulous as to be useless.
I would always behave in all my life according to my behavior set for each condition differentlyMore unsupported belief?
Oh sorry, it's not an unsupported belief - it's one known to be false.
Unless, of course, the definition of "fundamental nature" that you're using is so nebulous as to be useless.
and you also
Can you behave like Hitler
Nature of human person never changes
If output is different it is result of different conditions and experience we meet
Well that's apparently true for you.
Your behaviour, of course, being failure to learn.
And you to just know to talk logiclessWell that's apparently true for you.
Your behaviour, of course, being failure to learn.
Can a person have nature of Hitler , its nature can changed to Mother Teresa ?
These are so simple things I do not why you can not understand
We can not change a person 's fundamental behavior from Hitler to Mother Teresa
until we replace Hitler 's brain with a brain like Mother Teresa
So why are YOU the one who repeatedly offers nothing but unsupported assertion.
Apart from your extremely poor choice of "contrasts" 1 you're ignoring the fact that people DO change.Can a person have nature of Hitler , its nature can changed to Mother Teresa ?
Unless, like I said, the definition of "fundamental nature" that you're using is so nebulous as to be useless.
Read the responses in this thread.
Check what you're claiming BEFORE posting it.
Personality Change | Psychology Today
Study: Your Personality Can Change (and Probably Should) | LiveScience
Personality Is Not Set By 30; It Can Change Throughout Life
https://www.stanford.edu/dept/psycho...itychanged.pdf
http://www.focusing.org/personality_change.html
Or, maybe you're also claiming that someone who suffers from, for example, depression was always miserable, withdrawn, uninterested in participating and probably suicidal.
1 Mother Teresa was, in her own way, as blindly callous as Hitler.
"The only constant is change." Chines proverb
But change does not mean properties of nature would change with magic.
Change does not mean a perfect law of nature would change without any fault of previous law.
Try entropy, then.But change does not mean properties of nature would change with magic.
Change does not mean a perfect law of nature would change without any fault of previous law.
laws of entropy are not exceptions . They to follow the same rules as other law of physics .
Irrelevant.
You may believe it or not the simple thing is
"You can not remove the effects of brain, until you replace it or modify it physically "
No, I agree with that statement. But entropy is change.You may believe it or not the simple thing is
"You can not remove the effects of brain, until you replace it or modify it physically "
People change. It is their nature to slowly change over time.
At this point, may I strongly recommend a few chapters of The Brain That Changes Itself by Norman Doidge."You can not remove the effects of brain, until you replace it or modify it physically "
Mind altering all by itself.
Only if you move them away from the destructive environment.
You can have anything in life if you will sacrifice everything else for it. - James M. Barrie
Your sentence doesn't convey your entire thought. What will be only if you move who away from what destructive environment?
They will be what they are mean't to be by facing life and learning from their mistakes instead of being conditioned by others and eventually escaping reality with drugs, media, alcohol, etc...Your sentence doesn't convey your entire thought. What will be only if you move who away from what destructive environment?
What I mean is move away from society and grow our own food in a clean air environment because we as a society, live too close to each other. Plus, it is well known that crime is higher in the city.
Nonsensical.
Also nonsensical.What I mean is move away from society and grow our own food in a clean air environment because we as a society, live too close to each other.
So what?Plus, it is well known that crime is higher in the city.
None the above relates, whatsoever, to your claim that people change "Only if you move them away from the destructive environment".
I just used the curser to scare a fly off of the computer screen
I ain't never done that before
'nuff change fer one day?
A chaotic messy environment impedes development a lot more than a relaxed clean environment.
I didn't have to explain myself. Its common sense that the rich people have it easy in their pristine quiet environment and with their superior food in their supermarkets.
Supposition. Sloppy "thinking" and based, as far as I can tell 1 on false assumptions.
Of course you do.I didn't have to explain myself.
Making what is merely one more in a long line of unsupported and stupid claims REQUIRES explanation.
Which, as previously stated, DOES NOT RELATE TO THE SUBJECT UNDER DISCUSSION.Its common sense that the rich people have it easy in their pristine quiet environment and with their superior food in their supermarkets.
Plus, of course, the fact that you have, so far, failed completely to display any common sense whatsoever.
1 I say "as far as I can tell" because, as with all of your posts, you fail, entirely, to make your premises clear.
People can change if environment equality was put into place. Better?
"Meant to be" is an ssumption- but I do agree with part of what you said.
True. Got my eyes set on Alaska.
Crime rates may be higher in the city because of more conflict, more opportunities for crime and statistically, the more people in one area, the more of them will be engaging in that behavior.
Quality of life can mean more happiness. It can mean better decisions. But this, too, is a generalization.
People invariably change, I would argue that it is impossible not to change. The body changes due to the passage of time, the effects of the environment, and the mind that's an extension of the body changes along with it. That's not to say that people will necessarily change their beliefs, behavior, or certain aspects of their personality, for better or worse, but they may if under the right circumstances.
An honest man may steal food if he's starving. A thief might abandon his ways if he has some moral epiphany. Psyche may change for a person if they exercise regularly as opposed to being a slouch. Diet, drugs, supplements can all affect you, sometimes short-term, sometimes long-term. And of course there's always brain damage and degeneration. Life and experiences in general cause changes to who you are, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. So to the OP, can some guy who's an A-hole stop being one? Sure, but only under the right circumstances - which may or may never come about.
No, not better.
People change. Regardless.
The OP meant, can people change in a positive direction towards the best version of themselves.No, not better.
People change. Regardless.
People that are positive don't need to change or ever change. Why change when everything works?
This is an assumption- People will change regardless. What we deem is positive change or not is not relevant.
A happy camper will still change as time passes.
Assumption.
The examples were of someone changing in a "positive direction", but the concept of change applies equally each way.
Right. Because everyone is as "good" as they possibly could be, right?People that are positive don't need to change or ever change. Why change when everything works?
It's not about "needing" to change, it's about "is change possible?".
Please try to keep up.
If you don't understand the topic 1, or points made, then ASK, don't just insert baseless claims.
1 When I used the word "if" maybe I should have written "since".
What does any of this have to do with the op. Change is change regardless of whether it is for better or worse. If you like a game one day and after a few weeks of playing it you lose interest in it, then change has occurred. If you believe in some pseudo scientific crap then you learn real science and you lose faith in the pseudoscience then you have changed. If you learn a lesson you have changed. If you become arrogant and foul in your approach to others due to your perceived achievements over time, when you used to be humble and meek, you have changed. Change is just change, when the properties of something become something other than what they were previously.
Prove it. I have seen very happy healthy people destroyed by time, circumstance, and nature. A happy friendly person turned into an arrogant abusive asshole when after suffering brain damage that did not kill him. A healthy individual turned sickly when infected with a horrible virus, the effects changing the once optimistic person to a cynical apathetic shadow of their former selves.The OP meant, can people change in a positive direction towards the best version of themselves.No, not better.
People change. Regardless.
People that are positive don't need to change or ever change. Why change when everything works?
Oh brother. LOL!
You guys don't understand the OP. Read this... Can people change?
Its funny seeing rich people that have never had a hard days work give advice on a topic they have absolutely no personal experience with!
One more time: The QUESTION (the clue is that it's the THREAD TITLE) is CAN PEOPLE CHANGE?
The examples were of someone changing in a "positive direction", but the concept of change applies equally each way.
It's even funnier how many stupidly false assumptions one person, in this case YOU, can make in one sentence.Its funny seeing rich people that have never had a hard days work give advice on a topic they have absolutely no personal experience with!
With regard to myself I can see at least three MAJOR errors.
How many times has the OP stated that you guys didn't understand her?
Try reading her posts AGAIN.
When the OP says we "didn't understand" that's because she refuses to accept that people change AT ALL.
Ignoring your ridiculous errors I see...
Why are you being overly fixated on only the title of the thread?
The paragraph in the OP's first post contains more substance than the title.
Let's try this again:
The examples were of someone changing in a "positive direction", but the concept of change applies equally each way.
Now, which part of that do you not understand?
Why are you being overly fixated on only one aspect of change?
And are you going to apologise for your assumption?
Its funny seeing rich people that have never had a hard days work give advice on a topic they have absolutely no personal experience with!
Last edited by Dywyddyr; April 28th, 2013 at 05:56 PM.
of course environment matters for change both good and bad
skip the first minute 'n 1/2:
LMAO Spend a day handcuffed to me. I'll be dragging you by the end of the day.Its funny seeing rich people that have never had a hard days work give advice on a topic they have absolutely no personal experience with!
Thats not actual change. Getting programmed is not change and neither is taking a piss.
I am following the OP's question; the one you failed to answer.
No I am not going to apologize since hard work actual hard work builds a conscience.
LOL. I've worked the hardest jobs available years ago where I went home with inflamed wrists.LMAO Spend a day handcuffed to me. I'll be dragging you by the end of the day.Its funny seeing rich people that have never had a hard days work give advice on a topic they have absolutely no personal experience with!
In the duck's defense it can be spelled apologise or apologize... but you need more help than just spelling.
Wow what a baseless assumption. I lived most of my adult life on public assistance due to an adult onset medical disability and not a single well to do relative to my name. As well as suffered domestic violence as well as being a second class citizen (female) in a Muslim country.My mother didn't make it to middle class until after me and my siblings left the nest. Don't you dare assume that everyone on here is rich. Or always has been. I am still not rich, still medically disabled and doing the best I can to change my situation as well as myself for the better. I have personally witnessed people with apparently easy lives totally destroyed by some circumstance outside their control.Oh brother. LOL!
You guys don't understand the OP. Read this... Can people change?
Its funny seeing rich people that have never had a hard days work give advice on a topic they have absolutely no personal experience with!
I am also the daughter of a female coal minor that did not believe in allowing men to help her do anything. That meant my sister and I were her only help around the house. We worked on the house (including the roof), did all lawn work, worked on cars, and fixed anything that broke ourselves.
What?
Change is change.Getting programmed is not change
The OP was answered.I am following the OP's question; the one you failed to answer.
She chose to deny that change is possible, let alone actual.
So what?No I am not going to apologize since hard work actual hard work builds a conscience.
You made some pretty stupid assumptions (and one offensive one).
Based on nothing but your own uninformed prejudices.
Yeah those handcuffs are a real pain when working on a chain gang, aren't they?
You have to have schizophrenic MPD as an individual to accomplish this!
LMAO!!You have to have schizophrenic MPD as an individual to accomplish this!
Maybe I can pass for schizoid.
21st Century Schizoid Man - King Crimson [HQ Sound] - YouTubeLMAO!!You have to have schizophrenic MPD as an individual to accomplish this!
Maybe I can pass for schizoid.
Yeah.
You can put it on your CV.
Right next to "gullible", "uneducated" and "prepared to state false assumptions as if they were fact".
He is possibly the only human incapable of change. Born without proper education and staying that way.Yeah.
You can put it on your CV.
Right next to "gullible", "uneducated" and "prepared to state false assumptions as if they were fact".
Educated by the system = brainwashed slave mouse that does what they're told. Step away from the system for at least a year, enough time for your brain to rewire itself to the real uncoditioned state, and then you'll say different.
You would say different if you would have at least one supernatural experience. Nobody ever says anything for no reason.
Crap.
Equally crap.
Also crap, depending on how you define "reason".Nobody ever says anything for no reason.
I agree. But most times those reasons are ignorance, delusion, deception, guile, banality, stupidity, anger, mental illness, etc.. I firmly believe in Sturgeon's Law (for everything) which implies that 90% of what people say is crap. (And the other 10% is suspect.)
Last edited by PumaMan; May 1st, 2013 at 05:01 PM.
Educated by the system = brainwashed slave mouse that does what they're told. Step away from the system for at least a year, enough time for your brain to rewire itself to the real uncoditioned state, and then you'll say different.
You would say different if you would have at least one supernatural experience. Nobody ever says anything for no reason.
ROFLMAO!!! Supernatural experience? Wow.... yep, definitely a nutter, going on ignore. This is why you are supposed to say no to drugs.
Making assumptions about me... get back in the kitchen.Educated by the system = brainwashed slave mouse that does what they're told. Step away from the system for at least a year, enough time for your brain to rewire itself to the real uncoditioned state, and then you'll say different.
You would say different if you would have at least one supernatural experience. Nobody ever says anything for no reason.
ROFLMAO!!! Supernatural experience? Wow.... yep, definitely a nutter, going on ignore. This is why you are supposed to say no to drugs.
The way you've done, more than once, in this thread?
You are a typical duck. All you do is quack quack the word crap all the time.Crap.
Equally crap.
Also crap, depending on how you define "reason".Nobody ever says anything for no reason.
I'm over 25, have never done drugs, and eat plenty real food... fruits, vegetables, nuts, etc...I agree. But most times those reasons are ignorance, delusion, deception, guile(gullible?), stupidity, anger, mental illness, etc.. I firmly believe in Sturgeon's Law (for everything) which implies that 90% of what people say is crap. (And the other 10% is suspect.)
-Ignorance is the lack of information. Knowledge for its own sake is useless.
-Delusion, stupidity and mental illness all imply an unbalance of neurotransmitters. My fat soluble vitamins are topped up and neurotransmitters balanced.
When you believe in a "law", you let your mind be "limited" by "what if?".
Excuse me? is that a sexist remark?
Really? You sound just like someone else who was recently removed. Do you sockpuppet much?You are a typical duck. All you do is quack quack the word crap all the time.Crap.
Equally crap.
Also crap, depending on how you define "reason".Nobody ever says anything for no reason.
I'm over 25, have never done drugs, and eat plenty real food... fruits, vegetables, nuts, etc...I agree. But most times those reasons are ignorance, delusion, deception, guile(gullible?), stupidity, anger, mental illness, etc.. I firmly believe in Sturgeon's Law (for everything) which implies that 90% of what people say is crap. (And the other 10% is suspect.)
-Ignorance is the lack of information. Knowledge for its own sake is useless.
-Delusion, stupidity and mental illness all imply an unbalance of neurotransmitters. My fat soluble vitamins are topped up and neurotransmitters balanced.
When you believe in a "law", you let your mind be "limited" by "what if?".
Then why don't you try posting something that ISN'T crap?
How about trying to support your inane claims?
Really?I'm over 25
Then what's your excuse for being so ignorant?
As you so ably demonstrate for us.Ignorance is the lack of information.
That doesn't even make grammatical sense, let alone logical sense.When you believe in a "law", you let your mind be "limited" by "what if?".
I wish I had a dime for every time a nitwit composed an unreadable sentence on a forum. Damn, I'd be rich! Well, maybe not rich. But I'd have a lot of dimes.
It's interesting how you contradict your own complaint by engaging in the behavior.
You have demonstrated nothing more than your own beliefs are strong and that you have no real interest is anything scientific.
So why are you on this forum? It is a Science Forum.
Law: The system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the...I wish I had a dime for every time a nitwit composed an unreadable sentence on a forum. Damn, I'd be rich! Well, maybe not rich. But I'd have a lot of dimes.
Regulating: Control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly.
Laws are here to control and limit the mind beyond the "what if?" feeling of the unknown.
yeah, we regulate our minds so that they continue to work properly. If you want to let yours run wild and work improperly, that's your choice.Law: The system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the...I wish I had a dime for every time a nitwit composed an unreadable sentence on a forum. Damn, I'd be rich! Well, maybe not rich. But I'd have a lot of dimes.
Regulating: Control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly.
Laws are here to control and limit the mind beyond the "what if?" feeling of the unknown.
Well that really clears it up.
Please, don't try to explain anything to me anymore. You're making my head hurt.
What sheer nonsense.
As per your own defintion:
Law: The system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the...
Name ONE law that attempts to regulate how, and what, you think.
Compulsory educationWhat sheer nonsense.
As per your own defintion:
Law: The system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the...
Name ONE law that attempts to regulate how, and what, you think.
Because, as we all know, every single idea that ever was came from people who'd never had a formal education, right?Compulsory educationWhat sheer nonsense.
As per your own defintion:
Law: The system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the...
Name ONE law that attempts to regulate how, and what, you think.
That not one single worthwhile idea was produced by someone who'd been "regulated" as to what and how to think?
Maybe you should try thinking more.
Last edited by Dywyddyr; May 1st, 2013 at 07:32 PM.
Why do I need to spoon feed you something so simple to understand?I see you failed to answer the question.Compulsory educationWhat sheer nonsense.
As per your own defintion:
Law: The system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the...
Name ONE law that attempts to regulate how, and what, you think.
Maybe you should try thinking more.
When we go to school(Compulsory education), which is forced between certain ages, we basically copy/paste the information from the text book on a piece of paper and then memorize it in our brains for a test. Its basic brainwashing. It effects exactly how we think.
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