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Thread: Do colors look the same to you?

  1. #1 Do colors look the same to you? 
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    It's possible that colors look different to different people. Maybe your blue looks like my yellow. Maybe it looks like something impossible for me to percieve, which I think is more likely.
    Colors are how your brain interprets the different wavelengths which humans can see. "Yellow" (quotes=represented within the brain) is just a set of neurons firing, which represent yellow.
    What about other senses, like smell? Most of us can agree that certain things smell bad or good, but does that mean bread smells the same to all of us?
    What about pain, temperature, sickness, etc.? Are those percieve in the same way by different people?


    "It is the ability to make predictions about the future that is the crux of intelligence."
    -Jeff Hawkins.
    For example, you can predict that 3+5=8. You can predict what sequence of muscle commands you should generate during a conversation, or whether an object is a desk or a chair. The brain is very complicated, but that is essentially how intelligence works. Instinct, emotions, and behavior are somewhat seperate.
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    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I guess it's pretty much impossible to say how other people percieve things for absolute sure because we can't think or process information in exactly the same way as another person. Everybody's brain architecture is at least slightly different and also influenced by their experiences and other factors such as diet and enviroment. What can probarbly say is that the majority of people experience many of these things in a similar way, this is because we can see how large groups of people might like or be drawn to the same things. Take for example chocolate, most people like chocolate, so whilst we can't exactly know how they are experiencing the taste of chocolate we can say that they find it enjoyable. This can also be seen when using focus groups to try and gage opinions, we can't ever know exactly from the results but we can get the general overall sense when lots of people are agreeing on something.

    There are some interesting questions about this though in just how people's perceptions can or have been influenced to think of certain things as good and others not so, personally I love the smell when opening a fresh jar of coffee, but would this be different if I had been tought this was a bad smell, could two identical twins brought up with opposite teachings actually start to experience the same things in a different way?

    So yes I would think there are lots of unkowns, but we can get general information about the way the same things are percieved by different people.


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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Qualia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    (just so you know what it is you are discussing )
    MrMojo1, Ascended and NNet like this.
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  5. #4  
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    The concept you are thinking of is called "qualia."Qualia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The definition of qualia thus is governed by one's point of view, and that inevitably brings with it philosophical and neurophysiological presuppositions. The question, therefore, of what qualia can be raises profound issues in the philosophy of mind, since some materialists want to deny their existence altogether: on the other hand, if they are accepted, they cannot be easily accounted for as they raise the difficult problem of consciousness. There are committed dualists such as Richard L. Amoroso or John Hagelin who believe that the mental and the material are two distinct aspects of physical reality like the distinction between the classical and quantum regimes.[45] In contrast, there are direct realists for whom the thought of qualia is unscientific as there appears to be no way of making them fit within the modern scientific picture; and there are committed proselytizers for a final truth who reject them as forcing knowledge out of reach.
    Strange beat me to it.
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    Colors are perceived differently -hence the universality of traffic light sequences. Tolerance for pain, and sickness seems to be about your physical and mental makeup. Temperature -do you mean your body or how your tolerate heat and cold? Smell is different for me, in that I know the experience can be based on an emotional memory.
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  7. #6  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NNet View Post
    It's possible that colors look different to different people.
    It's fact, not just a possibility.
    ALL of our senses are unreliable, in that no one person's sense report exactly the same data as another person's.
    We have differing ideas of what tastes good, what smells good, what feels good, what sounds good...

    That knowledge was, essentially, the starting point for Descartes on his journey to cogito ergo sum.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NNet View Post
    It's possible that colors look different to different people.
    It's fact, not just a possibility.
    ...in that no one person's sense report exactly the same data as another person's.
    We have differing ideas of what tastes good, what smells good, what feels good, what sounds good...
    Is that a guess or so you have data I have not read?
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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pleaseletmebeanon View Post
    Is that a guess or so you have data I have not read?
    A guess?
    Hardly. It's something I was taught over 30 years ago.
    For example: We really do perceive colours differently depending on experience, age and state of mind.
    Slightly more popularised write up.
    More.

    At a more basic, personal, level: do you consider someone to be "weird" or "out of the ordinary" if they say they don't like the taste of, for example, Coke but prefer Pepsi?
    Do you think everyone claiming they don't like the taste/ smell/ sound/ whatever of something that you do like is working from personal whim?
    Most of my family loves oranges - I have to leave the room due to the smell. The smell of coffee with milk in literally makes me feel sick. Yoghourt tastes unpleasantly bitter, yet I love cooking apples raw.
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    "It's fact, not just a possibility.
    ...in that no one person's sense report exactly the same data as another person's."

    Data please
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  11. #10  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    You haven't checked the links then?
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    I'd like to see the peer-reviewed (-heck, I don't care if is has been) study that shows "that no one person's sense report exactly the same data as another person's."
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  13. #12  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pleaseletmebeanon
    I'd like to see the peer-reviewed (-heck, I don't care if is has been) study that shows "that no one person's sense report exactly the same data as another person's."
    After 30 years?
    Taste: There is considerable genetic variation in taste perception within and among species.
    Smell: Human olfactory perception differs enormously between individuals.
    Sight: links to a number of papers.
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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pleaseletmebeanon View Post
    Nothing is your links supports your claim.
    Yeah?

    In fact, one suggests the opposite.
    Can you read?
    Everyone selected nearly the same wavelength of yellow
    Hmm, and what was it I wrote?
    "that no one person's sense report exactly the same data as another person's."
    Now, since when has "nearly the same" been synonymous with "exactly the same"?
    I haven't denied, anywhere, that there is a consensus, simply that there is variation in the exact perception.
    What is bluey-green to you is greeny-blue to me, etc.
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  16. #15  
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    Please. I'm bored with your "is" is. You claimed a 'fact' that isn't proven: "...in that no one person's sense report exactly the same data as another person's.
    We have differing ideas of what tastes good, what smells good, what feels good, what sounds good..."


    There is no evidence of your <s>science</s> guess. Perhaps you meant fingerprints?
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    What can probarbly say is that the majority of people experience many of these things in a similar way, this is because we can see how large groups of people might like or be drawn to the same things. Take for example chocolate, most people like chocolate, so whilst we can't exactly know how they are experiencing the taste of chocolate we can say that they find it enjoyable.
    I think we don't percieve things very similarly at all. While we're drawn to similar things, the actual processes our brains are doing could be very different. Based on genetics, experiences, and sheer chance, the connections within each person's brain are completely different from everyone else. Also, each neuron in each person represents something different. Because of those facts, I think each person percieves things in a way completely different from everyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Qualia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    (just so you know what it is you are discussing )
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    The concept you are thinking of is called "qualia."Qualia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Strange beat me to it.
    Thanks.
    That's classification, not perception. We might have all been taught that a certain wavelength is yellow, but that doesn't mean it looks the same to everyone. If yellow looks like green to someone, and like red to someone else, they wouldn't have any trouble deciding if a yellow object was yellow. Pretend the 1st person points to a yellow object, and tells the 2nd person (who doesn't know that color's name yet) that it's yellow. The 2nd person learns to call what they percieve as red yellow, and the 1st person learns to call what they percieve as green yellow, then they'll have no trouble agreeing on a name for an object's color. Just because different information doesn't mean they percieve it the same. Their brains learn to interpret the data they recieve, and to give names based on what the general consensus is.
    If you look at the actual mechanisms the brain uses, it seems impossible for two people to perceive things the same way. Each neuron of each person represents usually represents something different. This is less true in lower levels which detect things like corners, but higher levels have neurons for very complex things (and are therefore more likely not to represent the same thing in someone else.)
    This is a trick common in the brain (and shared between the two points I just made). It's like soup. Scatter random receptors around the eye, and the cortex will learn to interpret the different combinations of signals in a way consistent with reality (so color brightness doesn't depend on how many receptors you have for that color.) You can scatter things around fairly randomly, and use some very general patterns to create intelligence. For example, neurons in the cortex follow only a few patterns I know of:
    -Connect by Hebbian learning. Hebbian theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Which allows for some amazing abilities, like quantification/classification and prediction)
    -Strongly activate the neuron directly above. Cortical column - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    -Scatter some inhibitory modulatory stellate neurons around. Stellate cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Those three patterns along with cellular processes are amazing enough to generate predictions (though there are actually a lot of simple principles within each function I mentioned.) Just add some soup-style modulation from reward centers, and you've got an AI with behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Everyone selected nearly the same wavelength of yellow
    Hmm, and what was it I wrote?
    "that no one person's sense report exactly the same data as another person's."
    Now, since when has "nearly the same" been synonymous with "exactly the same"?
    It doesn't matter if you recieve the same data. The internal process is what makes us perceive things differently.
    "It is the ability to make predictions about the future that is the crux of intelligence."
    -Jeff Hawkins.
    For example, you can predict that 3+5=8. You can predict what sequence of muscle commands you should generate during a conversation, or whether an object is a desk or a chair. The brain is very complicated, but that is essentially how intelligence works. Instinct, emotions, and behavior are somewhat seperate.
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    Try talking to a master printer about peoples perception of colour...Particularly where one colour is set against another, people vary in their perception of tonality and colour depth or saturation. Interestingly, ones perception of colour can be trained. That is you can be taught to see the amount of magenta in cyan/magenta mix where an untrained eye may only see cyan for example. I often work with magazines and newspapers and the discussions about colour that take place between the printers and the clients (particularly advertising clients) can be very contentious due to different peoples colour perception.
    It seems that senses can be trained then, I have read that tone deaf people can be trained to be pitch perfect, it is not necessarily innate.
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  19. #18  
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    I just think what would help me in the society. If the color is, the color is. If something another, the things.
    Science gives people the hope always.
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  20. #19  
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    The color of an object depends on both the physics of the object in its environment and the characteristics of the perceiving eye and brain. Physically, objects can be said to have the color of the light leaving their surfaces, which normally depends on the spectrum of the incident illumination and the reflectance properties of the surface, as well as potentially on the angles of illumination and viewing. Some objects not only reflect light, but also transmit light or emit light themselves (see below), which contribute to the color also. A viewer's perception of the object's color depends not only on the spectrum of the light leaving its surface, but also on a host of contextual cues, so that color differences between objects can be discerned mostly independent of the lighting spectrum, viewing angle, etc. This effect is known as color constancy.

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