Thread: ADHD Myth or fact

<Crap,have to do this again..post didnt save>(what good is auto-save if i can't access it?)

For those who remember where/what i posted on Sciforums about this..

WOO HOO!! I have been approved for diability for my ADHD!
financial stability at last! i am excited..

but this thread isnt about that..

through all this process to determine whether i am actually 'disabled' the question kept coming up 'what is it about your ADHD that prevents you from working?'
now to be honest..everything that i could come up with to answer that quesion always felt like 'supposition' like i did now 'know' with any certainty what it is that is making it hard for me to work..

whatever supposition i proposed (when i posted at sciforums) the response kept coming back 'get over your self', and when i was younger that answer worked..when i lost a job, i would be out the next day looking for work and didn't stop till i found one..(30 yrs working,60 jobs..discount the three jobs that lasted over a year (1=4yrs,1=3,1=5) and that is 2-3 jobs a year)..that was when i was younger..now stuborness has turned into frustration,apathy,discouragement,etc..

but there is more to ADHD than that..

some of the words i have become familiar with:
distraction
attention
inattention
impulsive
forgetful (see 'blonde moment')

now the attention thing is funny..
the majority of things i have read says that it is a lack of attention that is indicative of ADHD..but i have found that i can focus my attention on a particular task and excell at that task..problem is when i do that i do not have my attention on anything else..(case in point: posting..ask my daughter about my attention while i am posting..the house can be burning down while my attention is focused on responding to posts, and i wouldn't notice,till after i hit submit..)

so thinking about that i can understand the attention part a little better.

Now the hyperactive part, for me, tends to show up as 'fidgety' and i beleive influences how i think..makes me overthink things, always thinking, so much so that i have trouble sleeping at night, i am reminded of Curly of the three stooges "Im trying to think,but nothing happens" cept i try to stop thinking and nothing happens..at night i have to force myself to sing a song in my head so i can fall asleep..

this has also caused problems relationally..sometimes i have a hard time letting go of certain thoughts..the older i get the easier it is to let go of thoughts i do not want to think of..(but that just be 'old timers')

and thats where this becomes a discussion..
for me it is a struggle between what is the ADHD doing to me and what is it that i do to myself, where is that line between character imperfections caused by self and those caused by the ADHD?

so that brings us to why i started this thread..
i hope it can attract experts on ADHD (professionals: please be courteous and post qualifications)

but this board has a bunch of smart ppl on it..we should be able to come up with some insights and sort through the facts and myths surrounding ADHD.

hmm..interesting no one has posted yet..
does this indicate a lack of interest in discussing ADHD?

In my case, it indiates a lack of knowledge on the subjefct. I did find your story quite interesting.

Curly was a comedy genius.

Similarly, in my case I know little about ADHD. However, being a label-reader, I find that most of the drugs used to treat ADHD in children center around one or another type of Amphetamine.

Clearly stated, though in much finer print than the bulk of the advertising body (in magazines), teacher friends express shock when I mention this. Does no one else read labeling? jocular

Originally Posted by Harold14370

In my case, it indiates a lack of knowledge on the subjefct. I did find your story quite interesting.

Curly was a comedy genius.

this is why i wanted to put something up..to make that lack go away..

ok..maybe we should start with the basics..

Wiki Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
Attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a neurobehavioral disorder^[1] characterized by either significant difficulties of inattention or hyperactivity and impulsiveness or a combination of the two.

Adolescents and adults with ADHD tend to develop coping mechanisms to compensate for some or all of their impairments

In addition, most clinicians have not received formal training in the assessment and treatment of ADHD, in particular in adult patients

ADHD and its diagnosis and treatment have been considered controversial since the 1970
---

and it has a list i wanna pick on as it applies to myself;

"Be easily distracted, miss details, forget things, and frequently switch from one activity to another"

most definately!
but the opposite of 'switch from one activity to another' also applies, when i get focused on a certain thing, it can be hard to get my attention off it..(some have experienced this first hand with me...you know who you are..)

"Have difficulty maintaining focus on one task"

although i think maybe mine could be a 'trained' thing..i believe it is possible to 'train' your brain to do things contrary to what it wants to do..(others understand this concept better than i.)

Become bored with a task after only a few minutes, unless doing something enjoyable

most definately!..i work part time at a fast food resteraunt(by choice, need cig and gas money till disability kicks in) i am 'maintenance' (i disagree with the usage of this word) which means it is my job to clean...thats it..it is closer to a janitor than it is to maintenance..anyway they had originally schedualed me for 7 hrs day..i get the job done in 2.5 hrs..then i get bored and bug them to send me home before i get myself into trouble.(well..they dont need that excuse,they are vary anal about labor cost,they would rather me go home..)

Have difficulty focusing attention on organizing and completing a task or learning something new or trouble completing or turning in homework assignments, often losing things (e.g., pencils, toys, assignments) needed to complete tasks or activities

definatly when i was younger..not so much now..but i am always loosing things..i often think that is a matter of not 'thinking' about the object when i set it down, you know, absent mindedly setting something down where it doesn't belong..

Not seem to listen when spoken to

I think this touches on what causes the most problem in me keeping a job..
it is a perspective issue,an assumption made by the perciever about myself, irregardless of whether i deny it or not..
(just because it looks like i am not listening doesn't mean i am not.)

Daydreams

but just because i said that does not mean there are not times where i am guilty of that..

become easily confused

which becomes a struggle of 'how much am i doing to myself'....

and move slowly

um?..Hello..Hyperactivity..

Have difficulty processing information as quickly and accurately as others

i would argue with this..but i know better than to do it here..

Struggle to follow instructions.

i think this is more related to the easily confused..
and it is not always best to follow instructions..

Predominantly hyperactive-impulsive type symptoms may include:^[26]

• Fidget and squirm in their seats
• Talk nonstop
• Dash around, touching or playing with anything and everything in sight
• Have trouble sitting still during dinner, school, and story time
• Be constantly in motion
• Have difficulty doing quiet tasks or activities

most definately!
but now that i am older i can keep it to my hands and feet..(my foot/legs are usually 'bouncing' or my fingers need to keep busy..)

and also these manifestations primarily of impulsivity:^[26]

• Be very impatient
• Blurt out inappropriate comments, show their emotions without restraint, and act without regard for consequences
• Have difficulty waiting for things they want or waiting their turns in games

Most definately..but i am getting much better at controling it. (notice present tense)
----

also i believe most of these symptoms apply to everyone to an extent or another(projection?maybe/probably..but that doesnt mean its not true), pry not enough to cause problems in their lifes,
but everyone knows some thing about at least one of these things

um..i kept reading..
found this one line that has strange implications..

"Most people exhibit some of these behaviors, but not to the degree where such behaviors significantly interfere with a person's work, relationships, or studies—and in the absence of significant interference or impairment, a diagnosis of ADHD is normally not appropriate"

huh? you either have it or you don't.. it is not subjective to choice.

and this almost made me cry..:

In children who have a high IQThere has been some controversy as to whether ADHD children with a high IQ have significant impairments. Research has shown that high IQ children with ADHD are more likely to repeat grades and have more social and functional impairments; more than half require additional academic support compared to children without ADHD. Additionally, more than half of high IQ ADHD people experience major depressive disorder or oppositional defiant disorder at some point in their lives. Generalised anxiety disorder, separation anxiety disorder and social phobia is also more common in high IQ ADHD individuals. There is some evidence that high IQ ADHD individuals are not at an increased risk of substance abuse and conduct disorder compared to low and average IQ ADHD young people. High IQ children and adolescents with ADHD can have their high intelligence level missed when standard testing is performed; high IQ ADHD people tend to require more comprehensive testing to detect their true intelligence level.^[47] High IQ ADHD children have a unique neuropsychological profile which typically shows a gap of 20 points or more between the verbal IQ and the performance IQ when tested on the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children; high IQ children without ADHD do not usually present with this sizable gap.^[

Squirrel,

I have never been diagnosed with anything but a lot of these things apply to me. I remember in grade school, I would get up out of my desk in the middle of class and start walking around, stare out the window, or something. Finishing homework was a definite issue. I was always told that I could do much better in school if I only applied myself.

These tendencies continue even now, as it's hard for me to sit still and work for any length of time. My mind drifts in meetings. Still, if I'm under the gun, I can work through it. I've never been fired.

I agree with you these are things everybody probably deals with to some extent or another. It's hard to tell the difference between a disorder and plain old lack of discipline or bad work habits. Nobody can really stand in someone else's shoes and tell what they are experiencing.

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Squirrel,

I have never been diagnosed with anything but a lot of these things apply to me. I remember in grade school, I would get up out of my desk in the middle of class and start walking around, stare out the window, or something. Finishing homework was a definite issue. I was always told that I could do much better in school if I only applied myself.

These tendencies continue even now, as it's hard for me to sit still and work for any length of time. My mind drifts in meetings. Still, if I'm under the gun, I can work through it. I've never been fired.

I agree with you these are things everybody probably deals with to some extent or another. It's hard to tell the difference between a disorder and plain old lack of discipline or bad work habits. Nobody can really stand in someone else's shoes and tell what they are experiencing.

Same here. I suspect I'm a bit aspie, though I don't care enough to go to a brain doctor and have it confirmed. The way I see it, I've been expected to adapt all my life.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

The way I see it, I've been expected to adapt all my life.

that is the sub-subject..(sub-topic?)

what is it that one does to adapt one-self?

Clearly stated, though in much finer print than the bulk of the advertising body (in magazines), teacher friends express shock when I mention this.

I'd suggest that either their training was lacking or they've not kept up with the literature.

The best way to 'see' the issue is to see a child with ADD, no H. No hyperactivity. These are the dreamers, the vague, the wouldn't-work-in-an-iron-lung types. They're never disruptive in class - which is how the ADHD children come under notice, even if they're not really ADHD, they're certainly hyperactive.

Watching the transformation in a child with ADD who's been given the correct dose of stimulants brings to mind Clarke's third "law", Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. A child, who'd never been observed to complete even a quarter of a 10 minute worksheet, suddenly sits just as quietly as before and produces page after page of neatly presented work. It looks like a miracle. And for her, it probably feels like a miracle.

The hyperactivity everyone observes is actually an ADHD person's internal effort to maintain adequate stimulation to keep going.

As for those incorrectly diagnosed. My own view in dealing with many children whose parents told us that "the tablets" didn't do any good is that they weren't fully tested for all learning problems. My personal description of these students was that they were "dyslexic destroyers". I can't think of one who had these sorts of behaviour issues who didn't also have measurable deficits in reading, spelling and/ or comprehension. Their 'coping' mechanism was to make the task impossible for themselves to complete, and maybe others as well. No need to get into details of how this was 'achieved', but it certainly brought them under notice at school.

Originally Posted by NMSquirrel

what is it that one does to adapt one-self?

First, I had to accept that I'm not neuro-typical. The next step was locating as many neuro-typical people that I could, get to know them, chat, find out their interests and hobby's and then eat their brains.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Originally Posted by NMSquirrel

what is it that one does to adapt one-self?

First, I had to accept that I'm not neuro-typical. The next step was locating as many neuro-typical people that I could, get to know them, chat, find out their interests and hobby's and then eat their brains.

hehe..been there done that with other things..(went through ALOT of tech guys..)

Adelady
The hyperactivity everyone observes is actually an ADHD person's internal effort to maintain adequate stimulation to keep going.

i am not so sure about that..

being 50 and having loads of time to think of this (50yrs)..
it doesn't quite fit..

i can stop physically, i can relax (the fingers and feet are the hardest to stop) (can someone say 'no cuticles'?)
if i stop completely i fall asleep..( i can force myself to stop squirming,but then i get real tired(yawn,eyes closed, but not really asleep)
my brain is a different story..it keeps me awake unless i force it to sing (current is 'oh mickey, your so fine..')

but for the most part i have adopted a metaphor...
A squirrel in motion tends to stay in motion, a squirrel at rest tends to stay at rest..
and yes sometime a physical object had to be used at times to get this squirrel moving...

Now if this all aint confusing enough..

they are now saying that Bipolar and ADHD are similar..

by "They" are you meaning me? Now, just because I said "You think ADHD is bad, I'm bipolar and I can't even finish a thought in my OWN head before a new one pops up!", doesn't make me a doc.......

Originally Posted by NMSquirrel

hmm..interesting no one has posted yet..
does this indicate a lack of interest in discussing ADHD?

I keep trying to read the op but keep seeing squirrels fly by... so damned distracting.

a link that i think could be used in several threads..

What mental illness is not.

a couple highlights:

Mental illnesses are not the result of personal weakness, lack of character or poor upbringing.

They cannot be overcome through "will power" and are not related to a person's "character" or intelligence. (<clears throat>you know who you are)
Stigma erodes confidence that mental disorders are real, treatable health conditions. We have allowed stigma and a now unwarranted sense of hopelessness to erect attitudinal, structural and financial barriers to effective treatment and recovery. It is time to take these barriers down.

Originally Posted by NMSquirrel

(<clears throat>be advised Neverfly)

This is the final lie I am going to tolerate from you.

You're going on ignore, NMSquirrel. I have little tolerance for people that feel the need to flat out lie about what other people say just to make themselves feel better about being unable to support their claims properly.

Nice knowin' ya buddy- Goodbye.

I still haven't managed to read the entire OP of this thread. I think I may be having a hypochondriatic reaction to the subject matter.

Originally Posted by NMSquirrel

Mental illnesses are not the result of personal weakness, lack of character or poor upbringing. .

As a generality that is true. However child abuse significantly increases the risk for many psychiatric problems, including ADHD:
Child Physical Abuse Linked to ADHD and Bipolar Disorder | Mad In America

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Originally Posted by NMSquirrel

(<clears throat>be advised Neverfly)

This is the final lie I am going to tolerate from you.

You're going on ignore, NMSquirrel. I have little tolerance for people that feel the need to flat out lie about what other people say just to make themselves feel better about being unable to support their claims properly.

Nice knowin' ya buddy- Goodbye.

ok fine..i'll leave ya alone for awhile..