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Thread: Scizophrenia

  1. #1 Scizophrenia 
    Forum Freshman deep'n'dark's Avatar
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    Why do the voices that appear in your mind, talk in a negative way? Why aren't they talking about cute cats or things like that?
    And about the helmets that have been made to explore our minds: could we put one on your head and discover some secrets of scizophrenia?


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    Those voices are often signs of schizophrenia. But there are a couple of very specific negative voice messages that are symptoms of a very specific vitamin deficiency. And I can't remember the details. The standard advice on-line is that it's vitamin B12 but I'm sure there's a couple of others. (One of my relatives had an experience of a voice telling her she wasn't enjoying something - a casual boat ride on a beautiful calm sunny day - when she was actually enjoying herself. A few days of Vitamin B??? not sure, and all was wonderful.)


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    Well, first the type of schyzophrenia is important to consider and also the person. I have known many people who heard a wide variety of voices. Not all were negative. It is also note worthy to point out, although many/most will disagree, every one hears voices. For most though, the "voices" don't present every day living problems. Yes, vitamins can be very useful in promoting good mental health.
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    From what I saw in a documentary:
    it says that schizophrenia also create depression, such that the sufferer felt really really sad and they wanted to die (they often kill themselves because they felt no joy in living. Schizophrenia also started during adolescent which is a bad timing because teenage angst *issues* also happen at that time). I guess this explain why they heard bad voices instead of happy one (because they are sad!). -ie: If we are very very sleepy we will heard voices too, but that voices are usually just bla-bla-bla/neutral...
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    I guess this explain why they heard bad voices

    Not really. One of the signifying indicators of schizophrenia is delusion/hallucination. You may have seen people on public transport chatting quite contentedly to a friend that no-one else can see. But hearing voices constantly is stressful even if they're not negative or threatening - so that makes many schizophrenics get a bit depressed. Let's face it, a kind, well-meaning friend who never, ever stops talking to you can drive anyone a bit bonkers. If that friend is inside your head, there's no escape.
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    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    1% of the global population is presumed to have schizophrenia. That means that if U.K. and half the population of Australia were displaced to Vietnam those countries could be completely repopulated by the entire global population of those afflicted with schizophrenia. Yes, it is true that depression can ensue after the onset of a diagnosis of schizophrenia. However, a bit of exercise, emotional support, a favorable diet, with social contact from friends and love ones the depressive onset can be moderated. Of course it should be pointed out that a life time of such adversity in contrast to the notion of recovery would perhaps cause a person to feel such feelings such as hopelessness that can lead to thoughts of suicide and self harm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I guess this explain why they heard bad voices

    Not really. One of the signifying indicators of schizophrenia is delusion/hallucination. You may have seen people on public transport chatting quite contentedly to a friend that no-one else can see.
    For a time, when bluetooth headsets were all the rage, when it seemed as though everyone was schizo
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevePenk333 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I guess this explain why they heard bad voices

    Not really. One of the signifying indicators of schizophrenia is delusion/hallucination. You may have seen people on public transport chatting quite contentedly to a friend that no-one else can see.
    For a time, when bluetooth headsets were all the rage, when it seemed as though everyone was schizo
    I remember a trip to LA, and watching folks walking about having really animated conversations with seemingly no-body.......and I thought maybe folks in California are crazier than the average.......but then i discovered bluetooth
    When I studied psyc. the concept of "the schizophrenias" was just gaining acceptance. There are a lot of different maladies under that one word, some chemical, some environmental, some genetic, some debilitationg, and some just a minor inconvenience.
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    As I know Japanese association of psychiatrists recently refused
    from such diagnosis as scizophrenia.They believe that it may
    constitute of very different simptoms and disorders.
    1% of population is unbelievably many.I read such statements
    that in 75% of cases scizophrenia is genetically predetermined.
    There is even genetical tests for scizophrenia.It seems to be
    strange because this is very serious disease that develops usually
    at 15 years old or so.And people with such desiase are unlickely
    to have children.I can`t understand how they would be able
    to survive in past centuries.

    I don`t know what about voices but some noices in ``head``
    may have technogenic nature.We do not yet know sensevity
    of different people do different type of fields or other physical
    phenomenon.
    Antislavery
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    The 1% statistic is very well supported. Yes it seems like a lot. Schizophrenia is roughly defined as a condition of chronic, recurrent, episodes of psychosis. It can be confused with dissociation as both conditions involve delusions and hallucinations.
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    Genetically linked - some evidence.

    More recent evidence - some sufferers mothers had influenza at a certain stage of the pregnancy. This needs a lot more work, because it may just be the inflammatory process rather than anything to do with influenza itself.

    (Either way, I'd recommend both prospective parents get flu vaccine any way. Along with updating the rest of them.)
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Yes, insanity is hereditory. We get it from our children.
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    I just looked back at the first post in this thread...What helmets that let us explore our minds? This sounds like Science Fiction not science. As far as I am aware efforts to measure thought processes by recording electromagnetic brain activity have not met with much success. There is lots of data but not much useful data.
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    There have been a lot of advances in fMRI recently, for example: Scientists use brain imaging to reveal the movies in our mind (just the first thing I came across).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley514 View Post
    As I know Japanese association of psychiatrists recently refused
    from such diagnosis as scizophrenia.They believe that it may
    constitute of very different simptoms and disorders. ... .
    35 years ago, when i was studying psychology, The texts were already referencing the disorder as "The Schizophrenias"
    Back then, it was common to give people experiencing halucinations and wild mood swings lithium, if it stabilized them, they were diagnosed as "having manic depressive syndrom"...diagnosis through prognosis...

    Did you look into R.D.Lang's work with schizophrenics?

    We have a family friend, brilliant woman who was diagnosed with schizophrenia, she spent years being given different drugs, with unwelcome side effects, till, finally, they found one that worked for her. And, she had a daughter and lives a "normal" life.
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    R.D.Laing's work with schizophrenics? RDL might charitably be described as "old-fashioned". A very 19th century construction that politics/ideology is a better path to understanding than medicine.

    Others might say discredited. He was really the furthest extremity of the everything's your parents' fault psychiatric approach that developed out of Freud's work - except he claimed there was no medical/psychiatric basis, just families focusing their dysfunction on individuals. Not exactly the same as the 'refrigerator mother' so-called explanation for autism, but not a long way off either.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    R.D.Laing's work with schizophrenics? RDL might charitably be described as "old-fashioned". A very 19th century construction that politics/ideology is a better path to understanding than medicine.

    Others might say discredited. He was really the furthest extremity of the everything's your parents' fault psychiatric approach that developed out of Freud's work - except he claimed there was no medical/psychiatric basis, just families focusing their dysfunction on individuals. Not exactly the same as the 'refrigerator mother' so-called explanation for autism, but not a long way off either.
    I think you are completely wrong in your appreciation of Laing. True, he did go on about the schixophrenogenic family---a little freudian contamination there, but he thought the problems with schizophrenics had to do with a confusion between message and meta message. And, for those from a schizophrenogenic family, that was often true.
    He once chastised another practitioner who claimed that schizophrenics were unintelligable, by telling the practitioner that he was the sane one, and he was the one who had chosen his profession, and it was his responsibility to understand the patient, and not the patients responsibility to communicate well with the practitioner.
    Laing gave an example of the use of the word "ladder"---and how it also meant, a run in a silk stocking or nylon, which was also called a ladder, and how that could lead to a meta-message confusion on the poor patient who was trying to figgure out whether what was meant was sexual in nature, or had to do with climbing up on roof tops.
    He had perhaps the highest success ratio of treating schizophrenics for his time, but his approach was extreemly labor intensive, by well trained professionals, and not therefore a viable economic model, when an underpaid nurse could just hand out pills that, if they did not cure the disease, at least calmed the patient for better warehousing.

    Read some of Gregory Bateson's take off from Laing, then revisit Laing. You should/will change your mind.
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    Laing gave an example of the use of the word "ladder" ...... You should/will change your mind.
    I have read Gregory Bateson and several other anthropologists. I did all that leftwing-anarchist-Freudian-existentialist-marx-hegel-intellectual-vidal-uncle-tom-cobbley-and-all reading and analysis stuff for years in the 70s. (Threw out several thousand books last year when we moved. I don't even remember whether we still had some of these people lurking at the back of the lowest or highest shelves.)

    Of course, I had the added benefit of feminism - and some of the deluded Freudian/civil rights/radical action feminist apologists for the vile sexism of some of their cherished heroes gave me additional insight into the more general defects of a lot of these self-consciously intellectual posturings. And I include Laing in there along with a lot of the "free spirit" educators of the time. Philosophy, psychiatry and the philosophy of education practitioners who fancied themselves as 'liberating' children from the imagined strictures of family life or the routine intellectual demands of a decent education.

    And even if I agreed that Laing had been good value 50 years ago, things have changed. Psychiatry, cognitive science, genetics, endocrinology, psycho-pharmacology and all those related fields have made leaps and bounds in those decades. The mere fact that we know, for absolute certain, that a percentage of all populations have biological, genetically based tendencies to schizophrenia knocks Laing's ideas right out of contention forever.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    [QUOTE=adelady;338536]
    And even if I agreed that Laing had been good value 50 years ago, things have changed. QUOTE]

    Granted progress has been made in the intervening decades. And New discoveries that Laing couldn't possibly have known are now old also.
    But:
    What really grabbed me about Laing, was his insistance on professionable responsibility. Far too many professionals in all fields always want to blame their failures on someone else---blame the victim, blame the patient, blame anyone so that the professional never has to accept personal responsibility. And, this, Laing found intollerable.
    It really doesn't matter if Laing was a psychologist, psychiatrist, architect, or goat herd, He was a leader in his field because he worked long hard hours for his patients, giving all he could, always trying to understand more, and never blamed anyone else for his failures. So, for the sake of his accepting responsibility, and demanding the same for other professionals in his field, I will always hold him in high esteem.
    (but, that is just me)
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    Quote Originally Posted by deep'n'dark View Post
    Why do the voices that appear in your mind, talk in a negative way?
    This reminds me of people who have come back from the dead. Apparently it's always positive experiences of white lights and warm feelings, never the tortuous fires of hell (or other negative experiences).

    Quote Originally Posted by ampwitch View Post
    every one hears voices
    I must be an exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    hearing voices constantly is stressful
    As with the brain's bias to seeing faces, I think the brain also wants to listen to something that sounds like a voice. I once was on a med that made machinery sounds seem like droning a cappella vowels, which was very annoying.
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