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Thread: Inhanced Mind Perception

  1. #1 Inhanced Mind Perception 
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    Can you change others that are around you moods and feelings,even well-being with just your mind?To be able to think it and it happens.


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    No. To do so would be magic, and Harry Potter notwithstanding, there aint no sech thaing!


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    Mind is powerful.Ive seen some unexplained events,and self personal events also that is unexplained with no possibility of a coincidence denying it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan View Post
    Mind is powerful.Ive seen some unexplained events,and self personal events also that is unexplained with no possibility of a coincidence denying it.
    You are almost certainly mistaken. There is a wealth of psychological research that has demonstrated ways in which our minds work that account for these phenomena.

    For example, the brain is designed to seek out patterns. These patterns may be visual, or they may be patterns of behaviour or events. This ability is so powerful we see patterns where none exist. This is why Lowell and others saw canals on Mars. It is why you see faces in clouds, or others see a picture of Jesus on a piece of burnt toast.

    There is characteristic called confirmation bias, which is a tendency for people to seek out data that confirms their beliefs and ignore other evidence. Since I am aware of that risk I overcome it here by deliberately asking you to provide more detailed examples of instances where you think your mind has directly influenced the external world.
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    Even if you do have an effect on other people, it's probably not just "your mind".

    There are all sorts of non-verbal messages that people pick up. If you're relaxed and content, others with you may relax - not because of your mind, but because they've got the message that relaxation is OK. If you're tense or irritated or upset, even though you think you're behaving 'normally', you're probably giving multiple signals that all is not well. And those around you can become more cautious or anxious or uncommunicative in response to these unspoken messages.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bryan View Post
    Mind is powerful.Ive seen some unexplained events,and self personal events also that is unexplained with no possibility of a coincidence denying it.
    You are almost certainly mistaken. There is a wealth of psychological research that has demonstrated ways in which our minds work that account for these phenomena.

    For example, the brain is designed to seek out patterns. These patterns may be visual, or they may be patterns of behaviour or events. This ability is so powerful we see patterns where none exist. This is why Lowell and others saw canals on Mars. It is why you see faces in clouds, or others see a picture of Jesus on a piece of burnt toast.

    There is characteristic called confirmation bias, which is a tendency for people to seek out data that confirms their beliefs and ignore other evidence. Since I am aware of that risk I overcome it here by deliberately asking you to provide more detailed examples of instances where you think your mind has directly influenced the external world.
    It is easy to find examples. It is hard to find a reproducible scenario where example can be tested.

    About a year ago I listened to this CD on faith. It had a religious point of view but discussed similar "positive thinking" ideas that I think can be found in standard motivational types of material.

    I tried to be more careful about my rhetoric after listening to this CD. Within a couple months of listening to the CD, a series of remarkable events occurred.

    First, I was standing in line to put a slip in a lottery at a conference for a pretty unusual prize. The guy in front of me was saying this "negative self talk" such that "he never wins" etc.

    I told him that I expect to win, otherwise why bother standing in line? Well I won.

    Then twice that winter, we were apparently trapped in Northern airports from bad whether where whole screens of flights were being delayed and canceled. Both times my wife started to comment on how bleak our situation looked since our flight was also delayed. I remembered the CD and immediately said a positive affirmation.

    Both times, within minutes of saying the affirmation, an airline employee suddenly found a flight that we could run to to immediately board and connect to get home.

    It was amazing.

    However, I don't see how you can design a controlled study for such unpredictable events.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedo View Post
    It was amazing.
    Were these the only two occasions you said something positive? Are these the only two times that something positive happened? Were there times when you said something positive and nothing special happened? Were there times when you said something positive and something bad happened anyway?

    Sounds like a couple of coincidences plus confirmation bias. But without keeping a diary of "affirmations" and outcomes for a large number of people (you know, a controlled study) it is hard to say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dedo View Post
    It was amazing.
    Were these the only two occasions you said something positive? Are these the only two times that something positive happened? Were there times when you said something positive and nothing special happened? Were there times when you said something positive and something bad happened anyway?

    Sounds like a couple of coincidences plus confirmation bias. But without keeping a diary of "affirmations" and outcomes for a large number of people (you know, a controlled study) it is hard to say.
    These were the most remarkable of the events. Of course there were other events where good things occurred after an affirmation. However, I did not work for me in winning the multi-state lottery.

    Your comments interesting in that perhaps a diary could be used in a controlled study. If several people walked around with diaries, and consciously controlled their rhetoric according to some specific plan, maybe something could be measured.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedo View Post
    Of course there were other events where good things occurred after an affirmation.
    Were there times where events didn't happen after an affirmation? If the answer is no, then is that simply because you forgot those cases?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan View Post
    Can you change others that are around you moods and feelings,even well-being with just your mind?To be able to think it and it happens.
    Its called "mental telepathy." Hoaky social science departments in some of the universities have attempted to find evidence that it works. They have failed, and "The Amazing Randy" of Skeptic Forum has done a marvelous job of showing their mistakes when claiming some success.

    So this is a sort of empty subject. One more fruitful would be "body language." Or the subject of hypnosis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dedo View Post
    Of course there were other events where good things occurred after an affirmation.
    Were there times where events didn't happen after an affirmation? If the answer is no, then is that simply because you forgot those cases?
    Of course. I failed to win the multi-million dollar lottery after using an affirmation. (I just checked my last ticket.)

    I agree that there is no way to know if my experience is an example of confirmation bias, or an intervention from an angel.

    However, I will never use gloomy language when traveling through airports afflicted with weather delays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedo View Post
    I agree that there is no way to know if my experience is an example of confirmation bias, or an intervention from an angel.
    Well, we know that confirmation bias exists. We don't know that angels exist.

    Occam's razor?
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    I used to think that my ex-wife was an angel. I still think that when I remember that is how SATAN got his start.
    KALSTER likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dedo View Post
    I agree that there is no way to know if my experience is an example of confirmation bias, or an intervention from an angel.
    Well, we know that confirmation bias exists. We don't know that angels exist.

    Occam's razor?
    I don't think that "Occam's razor" would favor confirmation bias over angelic intervention in this case mainly because Occam was a Franciscan theologian. However, the principle does say to look for the "simplest explanation", until you can trade the explanation for more explanatory power.

    When most people thought the Earth was flat, that explanation was the simplest--until we learned more. In this case, the key seems to be:

    How can we learn more, and where should we look?

    Discerning the difference between confirmation bias vs. Spiritual intervention has some important social implications. You could attribute every disaster in human history to this question.

    On this forum, people some times remark about suicide bombers and leaders who start wars for religious reasons. However, you would expect God to also move people away from paths that lead to evil, if the people know how to hear His warning. Then it is also reasonable to attribute every atheist and theist war / genocide to "missing the message", if you believe in God.

    If God exists then it is reasonable that He would want people to hear His message. Also, it is reasonable to think that He would have specific rules regarding how that message is delivered. For example, if you want to communicate with anyone, there are social, organizational, or legal rules that guide the communication.

    So it seems that there should be ways to know the difference between confirmation bias, and spiritual guidance.

    However, the answer should be in both theology and science.

    I am not saying I know the answer, since I am trying to improve my own "discernment".

    Everything I have learned so far though, indicates that spiritual discernment is related to spending time with God, making an effort to obey God, and having faith in God. The answer must also be in science, since many life issues from the common cold, to the unknown cause of group violence effect both religious and non-religious.
    Last edited by dedo; January 21st, 2012 at 01:46 AM.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedo View Post
    When most people thought the Earth was flat, that explanation was the simplest--until we learned more.
    When was that exactly? Oh yes, that's right, never.

    The fact that so many people bring up an untrue factoid to support their theories suggests something about the truthiness of the theory, perhaps?

    If God exists then it is reasonable that He would want people to hear His message.
    Then why doesn't he come here and tell us? (Instead of whispering in the ear of a few privileged people that does nothing but make them look a little crazy)

    Also, it is reasonable to think that He would have specific rules regarding how that message is delivered. For example, if you want to communicate with anyone, there are social, organizational, or legal rules that guide the communication.
    We have very good communication systems (developed by science not faith) that are used everyday by advertisers, politicians and everyone else. He could use those, no?

    So it seems that there should be ways to know the difference between confirmation bias, and spiritual guidance.
    Yes. Scientifically conducted experiments. Reality: 1; Psychic powers: 0.

    However, the answer should be in both theology and science.
    Not really. Was theology used to develop television or computers? Have any major medical advances been due to theology? Did theology put a man on the moon? I'll stick with science, thanks.
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    In every social situation that I am aware of, including science classes, student who seek to communicate with a superior must learn and comply with the rules set by the superior--not vice versa.

    Otherwise, a student in a physics class would write the syllabus. The professor would teach at the student's convenience. I am not aware of any situations where that works.

    That seems to be what you are suggesting.

    Otherwise, the only reasonable way to communicate with God, is to learn what rules God has made, and at least try to follow them.
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  18. #17  
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    I have no idea what you are talking about
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    You are suggesting that God comply with man's rules.

    That is not the way it works.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedo View Post
    You are suggesting that God comply with man's rules.
    You said:
    If God exists then it is reasonable that He would want people to hear His message.
    I just pointed out that he wasn't doing a terribly good job of it.

    (Mind you, it is hard to make a good impression when you don't exist)
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bryan View Post
    Mind is powerful.Ive seen some unexplained events,and self personal events also that is unexplained with no possibility of a coincidence denying it.
    You are almost certainly mistaken. There is a wealth of psychological research that has demonstrated ways in which our minds work that account for these phenomena.

    For example, the brain is designed to seek out patterns. These patterns may be visual, or they may be patterns of behaviour or events. This ability is so powerful we see patterns where none exist. This is why Lowell and others saw canals on Mars. It is why you see faces in clouds, or others see a picture of Jesus on a piece of burnt toast.

    There is characteristic called confirmation bias, which is a tendency for people to seek out data that confirms their beliefs and ignore other evidence. Since I am aware of that risk I overcome it here by deliberately asking you to provide more detailed examples of instances where you think your mind has directly influenced the external world.
    The study of a human in society with intense detail of the subject.Then you interact with this subject using proir knowledge of the subject and predict an action then it happens.Wouldnt that be a form of inhanced mind perception?Example A really close friend I knew for years was an intense drinker.One day he shows up on a so called crouch-rocket (fast motorcycle)Through my knowledge of my friend I told him" he would die on this machine".I held my head down two weeks later when I heard he was crushed between two motor cars.Example Multiple times Ive set in my car and thought of a song and it would play ,sounds funny but im talking atleast twenty times so far.At work I have known the outcome of situatons before they happen on a common basis.You can say coincedence all you want my friend but try it something simple, think it.The outcome will not happen at the instant thought, but in a later state, even if you forgot what it was.It will be a surprise ,then you will think deja vu.
    Last edited by bryan; January 22nd, 2012 at 09:17 PM.
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    I'm not saying I can change the world.I'm just saying in my everyday scenario,I think my mind is playing a big role in the upcoming events that play out..P.S..(I'm crazy) but know this I think we all are subjects under investigation by a higher power. If not, then why are we here? ^.^Discuss!!
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    A drinking motorcycle rider?

    Nothing remarkable about predicting outcomes there. My husband refers to such people on our roads as "temporary Australians".

    If not, then why are we here?
    Why peaches, why mosquitoes, why clownfish, why elephant grass? There doesn't need to be a point. We are especially gifted with the ability to see and analyse a lot of things around us, including the knowledge that we will eventually die. Instead of mulling over or arguing about the point of all this, we should be profoundly grateful to have the chance life has given us to make the most of what we've got.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan View Post
    The study of a human in society with intense detail of the subject.Then you interact with this subject using proir knowledge of the subject and predict an action then it happens.Wouldnt that be a form of inhanced mind perception?
    Sounds more like the application of intelligence.

    Example A really close friend I knew for years was an intense drinker.One day he shows up on a so called crouch-rocket (fast motorcycle)Through my knowledge of my friend I told him" he would die on this machine".I held my head down two weeks later when I heard he was crushed between two motor cars.
    That hardly requires psychic powers.

    You can say coincedence all you want my friend
    I would rather say coincidence. Plus confirmation bias.

    but try it something simple, think it.The outcome will not happen at the instant thought, but in a later state, even if you forgot what it was.It will be a surprise ,then you will think deja vu.
    So, if I think about a plate of shrimp[*] and then any time in the next 40 years someone mentions a plate of shrimp it is because I thought of it? Wow!!! That really is amazing.

    Here is a prediction: it will rain where you are. (One day)

    [*] Repo Man (1984) - Memorable quotes
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan View Post
    I think my mind is playing a big role in the upcoming events that play out
    If you are older than, say, 18 you might want to consider professional help (If you are younger than that it is the normal egocentricity of youth)
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  26. #25  
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    Bryan, all I can say is "Be careful of the jug."

    Let me know how that goes.
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