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Thread: Suicide

  1. #1 Suicide 
    Forum Sophomore somfooleishfool's Avatar
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    I'm contemplating suicide for not so much emotional reasons so much as logic. Even when I'm happy (which is not right now I'll admit) I still feel suicide would be the better option.



    ------Faithlessness-------


    Any smart person knows that no religeon exists, I think this theory is about as truthfull as the theory of gravity, sure it COULD be wrong but I doubt it. Having no faith and beleving that I simply cease of have my conciousness on the world, I am not afraid of death as I will one day die and it won't be any different to dieing now.
    ------Family-------


    I struggle with empathy. I don't give two sh**ts about tragic events that don't directly affect me. I'm dyspraxic and I THINK that has something to do with it. For example if a friends mother died, sure I would try to be there for them and I'd pretend to care, but in reality it doesn't phase me in the slightest.

    I would get over it very quickly were a close family member to die, but then again I don't like (almost hate) most of my family tree.

    My father has asbergers syndrome and is just about the stupidest person I know. He cant listen to what someone is telling him long enough to take in a logical arguement. He is incapable of common sence and has his priorities all wrong. Cleanliness is just about his topmost of priorities. He will interupt me from last minuite cramm study for a university exam to go and tidy my room. It is imperritive above all things that I am in bed by 11:30 (I'm 20 and I still have a bedtime). My father just the other night was shocked to find out that stars are actually other suns and that some of them are even BIGGER than the sun.....

    My mother is a horrible vindictive woman, none of my friends like her. She has ZERO respect for privacy and, for some reason I've never figured out, seems to go out of her way to invade privacy. She is quick to point out peoples flaws in a blunt manner (irony here I'll admit) and she is manipulative to the point that my caution level around her of what I say and do is near schizophrenic. You never know when you will let something slip just gossiping that she will twist and before you know it you have stabbed a friend in the back unintentionally.

    My Nana (thank god she died a few weeks ago) was the clear creation of mum and is everything mum is but worse. My nana will be having a casual conversation with you and then BLAM she will go strait for the jugular. an example: my grandparents had been living in our house and I walked out of the bathroom having just dried my hands on the towel that happened to be there at the time, and just as I walked out she screamed at me "don't you DARE use my towel again! EVER!". Another time my mother offered for my girlfriend to join us for tea and then just as grandad was serving dinner I mentioned that we needed another plate. My nana grew a stern look on her face and said in a discusted voice "how rude to announce another guest after dinner has already started getting served" which put my girlfriend in such a spot she cried.

    My grandad is the grandist stoic you have ever met. His wife just died and his house got destroyed in the christchurch earthquakes and I havn't seen him so much as complain, whimper or cry once.

    My dads brothers and sisters I don't see or care to see.

    My mothers sister is a heavenly refuge of such a crap family tree and is the best aunt you could hope for, her son is equally so and he is possibly my best friend despite being 5 years older than me.

    My dads mother was just strait up strange. My mothers first dinner with dads parents was a strange occasion. During the entire dinner, it was insisted by dads mother that all conversation would be held in french, despite the fact that she was the only one at the table who was able to speak any french at all.

    My grandad on my father's side was senile before I was born.



    -------Lack of faith in humanity-------



    I can't stand the stupidity of MOST people. It's mind numbing to think just how many peoplethere are that have no curiosity, believe what they are told and never question it. All religeon should have been ruled out as myth decades ago. We have enough knowledge of the nature of the universe now to provide all bar proof that religeon is bollucks.
    The economy directly makes people strive for selfish gain and not care about the good of the human race or even the nation they live in. The world should be united by now, in the common interest of progress and technology, rather than fighting over crude oil and worsening global warming. I'm not a smart person, I failed school by a long shot and I am struggling with uni, but I know more about the nature of the universe that we live in than probably 30 of your average persons put together. I don't have any close relationships (be it friend family or other) with anyone who is what I deem "smart"(not book smart but open minded I guess is a better way of phrasing it).



    --------No interest in being part of a sick society that is compulsory------



    I have zero interest in taking part in society. Why should i spend 40 hour of my week for the rest of my life doing work so that I can earn bits of paper that are deemed to have value by governments. Governments by the way whose laws I was born into and had no say or sway in. From the moment I was born, I had no right to live like a primitive human (food, shelter, land and clothing all require a lot of money). The laws are invented by those in power and are enforced by a false sence of moral obligation to uphold the law and the threat of captivity (prison) which would be hell. Even in New Zealand, which I thought was one of the more civil countrys, there is rape and abuse in prisons on a regular basis. I read an article about "escaping the system" and this guy managed to live on $4000 a year (which still has to come from somewhere) but just to live this close to out of the system he was eating out of trash cans and practising other unsanitary and undignified habbits.

    quite apart from the moral objection to this. I am quite a lazy person and I would sooner just commit suicide than be forced to work 40 hours labour for my whole life before dieing. I am too "smart" (if you will) to be able to handle 40 ours a week of labour, yet I'm too dumb to succeed in education. I'm trapped, I beleve, by being smart but dyspraxic meaning I'm intelligent but my capacity to learn is limited, so I fail any attempts at education I partake in in hopes of avoiding low paid boring work.


    ------Lack of empathy------


    I think I skipped over this earlier, but I don't possess much empathy. I don't care for those who will be affected by my suicide, in fact, I would seemany of those who are closest to mesuffer (even though I won't see it which is all the more reason why I don't care how they take it)


    -------Stuck at home-------


    I am stuck living at home because I can never hold a job for very long (I cant stand working, it is suicidingly depressing)
    even if I manage to pass the uni degree I am currently doing. Thatwould leave me at home for another 10 or so years to finish my study. 10 Years of no freedom living amongst people I despise.


    -------Counciling-------


    Councellors only seek to diagnose me as either depressed or not depressed and I don't get horrifically depressed, there are certainly others worse off than me.So all I get is the implied "Why are you complaining? You aren't 'depressed'"

    any councellor that I open up to turns against me and puts pressure on me to stop being lazy and and they just dismiss all my views as invalid because they can't see the flaw in the system like I do. I get encouraged to get off my ass and get a job (which only presses me closer to suicide).


    -------Ambition------


    My two ambitions in life are A: to see what technology and knowledge unfolds in my lifetime and B: to become a research scientist and be at the front line of new discoverys (at this point I'm favoring biochemistry). My dream to become a scientist is a dim chance as I struggle to learn beyond the trivial fun facts of science. My ambition to see the world unfold is not enough to wait a lifetime of unhappiness to see before I die at which point it doesn't matter anyway what I did and did not see.


    --------friends--------

    I don't have any friends that I relate well to. I have friends that I can have a good time with but noone to have intelligable conversations with. Everyone is too damn stupid.

    I was talking with an aquaintance about the possibility of time travel, based on the false premise I had at the time, thinking that wavelenge was at all related to the speed of light. Long story short, I argued that perhaps red light travels faster than white light (thought came from looking at the light spectrum) and, right around this time, a friend of mine piped up unjokingly "well it makes sence because they say red cars travel faster than other cars". Another friend of mine thought the moon was about the size of a car.



    ------End-----


    I can't really think of anything else to wrap it up so I'll leave it at that. My reasons for a logical suicide.


    Last edited by somfooleishfool; April 20th, 2012 at 07:12 AM.
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  3. #2  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    Suicide hurts.


    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  4. #3  
    Forum Sophomore cluelusshusbund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    My reasons for a logical suicide.
    That was a very interestin read.!!!

    Do you recall EVER feelin the emotion of empithy.???
    Go here an play the "Guess Game".!!!

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/gener...uess-what.html

    When the curent game is guessed... post anuther photo for us to... "Guess what this is" :-)
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  5. #4  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    You aught to read the Hagakure.

    Suicide is not logical just because you hate, don't like, or are bored by things. You are attempting to judge people and events which exist regardless of your judgment. Once you take judgment and discrimination out of the picture you can do anything. Let me give you an example. You hear a song, or someone talking. When you hear that voice you translate it's meaning in your head. You are giving that sound meaning. Instead, simply observe the sound as nothing but a sound. These people in your life only bother you because you are discriminating and giving them reason to bother you. If you just see them without discrimination you no longer have reason to be bothered. Your body and mind are the same. Once you are free from discrimination you are free to do anything with yourself and the world. Simple as that.

    You say you don't care about these people but you do. The trouble is that you're not seeing people as they really are. You've made little profiles of everyone in your head and that is who you are interacting with. You've made a profile of yourself as well. It would be worth your while to observe yourself as you are, and not as you think you are.

    If life is so worthless than you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. One who is prepared for death in every situation can only succeed or die trying.

    So your logic is that you hate, are bored by, or despise people, society, life, etc. What do you expect of these things? Do you expect everyone to be as you are? You are assuming that life should be a certain way. For example, why is it important to relate to friends? I live in a place where, because of cultural differences I find it nearly impossible to relate to anyone, friends or not. Yet I am fascinated daily by the things I discover in these people. Why should everyone not believe in God? Why should people all be smart and live orderly, peacefully, calmly? Why? Because it's not how nature intended it my friend. Take a walk in the woods and you'll see the animals, who are far more honest than we, do not live so orderly and peacefully. The large predators find a nice snack and the rip it apart, while it's still breathing. Humans trick themselves into thinking they are somehow more intelligent, then they become overpopulated, get disease from overconsumption while letting other die of starvation, spend hours courting instead of making love, put pretty leaves and spices on their steak instead of ripping the raw flesh of the beast they just hunted. We make gods and idols and governments to create forms of judgment necessary for this beautiful civilization you think is so important. This judgment leads to conflict, not the gods or the idols.

    So we are back to the beginning. You have labeled, through discrimination, that life is worthless and thus you are better off without it, or maybe that it is better off without you. I have come to a similar conclusion except that I see a pointlessness in death. A giving up. 'tis better to reign in hell than to serve in heav'n. Those who give in are the servants of pain. Those who reign have embraced it. Take a freezing cold shower, stay up late, get a job that you would most hate, see if red cars really do go faster, don't consider yourself depressed, or "dyspraxic" (these are only fancy words to make you feel special). Then, observe where your mind takes you. Revel in the ridiculousness in life, and enjoy it.

    It's simply a choice. I have my own beliefs, goals, and motivations that I create for myself. They are not real, but only constructs of my mind. But they stem from the choice to live, rather than to die.

    On the other hand life is logical because its only function seems to be to continue living. Imagine if you wrote a program that simply replicates itself, but then one of those replications deleted itself. That wouldn't seem very logical would it? Of course, life is not so logical.
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  6. #5  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  7. #6  
    Teb
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    You blame and point out that others are narrow minded even calling your father the stupidest person you know. Yet i have to say you could change your view on life just by being open minded. Like stated before if life seems so bleak and granted you might have your reasons, then the only way is up. You are 20 years old, by any account that constitutes only say 10 years of actual experience. 10 years is nothing, it's a moment in time, a snapshot.

    A placebo can cure anything from mild headaches to fears, such is the power of persuasion and if you believe so much you know what you are talking about then please by all means try and prove yourself wrong. Maybe in the course of all your "struggles with life" you might in the end find a life in there somewhere.
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  8. #7  
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    Gee, I had just met you.

    Rather like you.

    I have a lot of experience wrestling with suicidality.

    It feels logical when you are in that place...but after being stopped from blowing my brains out by my wife's unilaterally trigger-locking my pistol?

    I...have a majority of days where I am glad I am still fighting this.

    I wrote this this spring...meh, I felt rather absurdly proud of how well the writing came off...

    http://strangethingslikeme.blogspot.com/2011/04/to-non-depressives-suicidality-for-n00b.html

    Actually, I have a lot of experience hating my dad too. Doubt you have anywhere near the same reasons, though.

    How is it precisely that dypraxia affects your ability to learn? I had to look it up.

    I have a dream of becoming a therapist myself...and I may get almost all the college creds knocked out, then get stuck and not be able to pass math. (If I get into grad school, I am good...)

    Dyscalculia...bad enough that I can't run a cash register and did not learn how to read a clock face until I was 14.

    Things can change and get better in ways the foreclosure you are feeling now will not lead you to expect.

    My ambition to see the world unfold is not enough to wait a lifetime of unhappiness to see before I die
    So it's the unhappiness that is the issue...Is there a possibility there is a job you'd enjoy...or running your own business?

    Struggling with lack of empathy...just a thought...if your family have always been extremely painful to love, you could be shut down in self-defense, and done so at such an early age that it has become normal.

    BTDT...I used to not know I was angry until I was punching a hole in the wall.
    “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”-George Carlin

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  9. #8  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    I'm contemplating suicide for not so much emotional reasons so much as logic. Even when I'm happy (which is not right now I'll admit) I still feel suicide would be the better option.
    What's making you unhappy at the moment?

    What other options do you have that you think are worse than suicide?

    How can you be sure you've thought of even a tiny fraction of your options before deciding this?



    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    ------faithlessness-------


    Any smart person knows that no religeon exists, I think this theory is about as truthfull as the theory of gravity, sure it COULD be wrong but I doubt it. Having no faith and beleving that I simply cease of have my conciousness on the world, I am not afraid of death as I will one day die and it won't be any different to dieing now.
    The difference is that you would die before finding something worth living for. While you may think your life is pointless now, surely you're not so arrogant as to think this is an opinion that can never be changed? I'm sure people will back me up on this point - there are things worth living for, if you're willing to try and find them.


    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    -------lack of faith in humanity-------

    I can't stand the stupidity of MOST people. It's mind numbing to think just how many people have no curiosity, believe what they are told and never question it. All religeon should have been ruled out as myth decades ago. We have enough knowledge of the nature of the universe now to provide all bar proof that religeon is bollucks. The economy directly makes people strive for selfish gain and not care about the good of the human race or even the nation they live in. The world should be united by now in the common interest of progress and technology rather than fighting over crude oil and worsening global warming. I'm not a smart person, I failed school by a long shot and I am strugling with uni, but I know more about the nature of the universe we live in than probably 30 of your average people put together. I don't have any close relationships (be it friend family or other) with anyone who is what I deem "smart"(not book smart but open minded I guess is a better way of phrasing it).
    Ironically a lot of the 'stupid' behaviour you mentioned is simply people trying to rationalise their lives. In the same way that you came to the conclusion that suicide is a logical course of action, other people come to the conclusion that life must have some deeper, transcendental meaning.


    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    --------no interest in being part of a sick society that is compulsory------



    I have zero interest in taking part in society. Why should i spend 40 hour of my week for the rest of my life doing work so that I can earn bits of paper that are deemed to have value by governments. Governments by the way whose laws I was born into and had no say or sway in. From the moment I was born, I had no right to live like a primitive human (food, shelter, land and clothing all require extensive money). The laws are invented by those in power are enforced by a false sence of a moral obligation to uphold the law and also the threat of captivity (prison) which would be hell. Even in New Zealand (which I thought was one of the more civil countrys) there is rape and abuse in prisons on a regular basis. I read an article about "escaping the system" and this guy managed to live on $4000 a year (which still has to come from somewhere) but just to live this close to out of the system he was eating out of trash cans and practised other unsanitary and undignified habbits.

    quite apart from the moral objection to this. I am quite a lazy person and I would sooner just commit suicide than be forced to work 40 hours labour for my whole life before then dieing. I am too "smart" (if you will) to be able to handle 40 ours a week of labour, but I'm too dumb to succeed in education. I'm trapped, I beleve, by being smart but dyspraxic meaning im intelligent but my capacity to learn is limited. So I fail any attempts I partake in at education in hopes of avoiding low pay, boring work.
    If you hate modern society so much, leave it so you can look at it more objectively. This is one of my life goals. I'm not sure yet where I'll go, or when, or how I'll survive, but it strikes me as an excellent way to decide exactly how terrible modern society is.

    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    -------counciling-------


    Councellors only seek to diagnose me as either depressed or not depressed and I don't get horrifically depressed, there are certainly others worse off than me.

    any councellor that I open up to turns against me and puts pressure on me to stop being lazy and dismisses all my views as unvalid because they can't see the flaw in the system like I do. I get encouraged to get off my ass and get a job (which only presses me closer to suicide).
    I can't really say anything about councellors, having done my best to avoid them my whole life (and succeded). I have to confess, I don't believe in the benfits of councelling.


    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    --------friends--------

    I don't have any friends that I relate well to. I have friends that I can have a good time with but noone to have intelligable conversations with. Everyone is too damn stupid.
    The internet's a big place - probably big enough for you to find people worth having real conversations with.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    It sounds like you are masking your emotions with logic.
    I can relate to you on many levels here, I have never been empathetic. I have seen people die and while I remember it and make sure to not put myself in their position, I never felt the twang of empathy in my heart. People I meet sometimes comment on how deadpan I seem to be. I don't make deep friendships, generally because I cannot be bothered listening to their problems. I haven't seen my father in 12 or so years, and I'm happy about that. I thought he was a bad person, and honestly the world would be better without him. My mother is somewhat like yours. Very invasive of privacy, which is why I moved out the second I could.
    I also find myself questioning the intelligence of many people. This quote always comes to mind: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people". I hate the inane jabber most people take part in, you know what I'm talking about 'oh my god did you see (insert name), did you know that they (insert situation).'

    All that being said, I do not turn to suicide. Ever. Where is the logic in suicide when there is a world to experience out there. If you're not happy, change your life. I travelled for two years and it is the best thing I have ever done. You will meet interesting people, see things you would never think of and it will broaden your mind. Besides, if you continually travel there is always change, so no source of boredom.

    Anyway. Sorry if this sounds vaguely councellorish, but you sound like you are depressed. Just because you don't think you are doesn't mean you're not. I dunno if you can relate to this, but I'm sure many people can. Think of that 'bad' relationship where while in it, you just assume that there is nothing to be done, this is just the way life is. But once out of it, you realise what a crappy position you were in, how much happier you are living without the chains of a detrimental relationship.

    I suggest you try to change your life. Do something new and different, something that might excite you or stimulate you in new ways. You will find out a lot about yourself.
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    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iainmacb View Post
    you sound like you are depressed. Just because you don't think you are doesn't mean you're not.
    Seconded.

    Quote Originally Posted by iainmacb View Post
    I suggest you try to change your life. Do something new and different, something that might excite you or stimulate you in new ways. You will find out a lot about yourself.
    Also seconded.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Everyone is different. Somefool may find it hard to understand that. Other people are not the same as he is, and do not feel the same way. This is a result of the scientific fact that we reproduce sexually in order to generate genetic variability. Sometimes this variation spits out someone like the fool who is an utter downer.

    I do not think there are easy answers, and I would urge somefool to seek professional help. The urge to suicide is something no psychiatrist will take lightly. Frankly, my reaction is that somefool needs to be on medication.


    It is also true that he is at the stage in life when such things are most potent. If somefool can hold off on suicide for another decade, simply maturity may change his entire life.
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    The thought of suicide have crossed the minds of many teen-tween years, fact is suicide rate is highest at your age group. Like someone mentioned you've only had 10 years experience to think anything rational. Besides your not committing suicide, if you were you probably wouldn't be writing about it here, your seeking sympathy, empathy, understanding from others, which is a very good thing, your very young and despite of what you think very naive about life as well, I know cause I was there were your at when I was 19, I'm 49 now and my life hasn't been a rose garden, but it has been worthwhile living it and experiencing what I have. Stick around enjoy the roller coaster ride of life with all it's ups and downs twists and turns, in the end you'll figure out what you'll want to do, and give purpose to your life.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Some depressions are the result of obsessive thoughts. Almost everyone has had one or two. When it involves an action you can't believe you considered then it tends to send the thinker into fits of despair. It could be a thought as simple as stealing from a store or as complicated as doing significant harm to someone you love. I don't think suicide is a common first obsessive thought. It may be a result of how you deal with the first , if I may say, illogical thought. When you think of something out of character with yourself it is usually associated with great disbelief in the fact you even thought of it. If you cannot recover from that first illogical thought then there is likelihood of you continuing to have it. It's like a voice in your head, your alter ego, taking over & speaking out.

    You can use thought to get out of it. However it will take time. The thought slowly goes away but because it was traumatic, you will think about again and again. That's ok but once you realize what it is then its gets easier and easier to dismiss it. How is it done? There are many articles on obsessive thoughts you can Google.
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    Forum Sophomore somfooleishfool's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, a lot of informative posts. Sorry I havn't replyd at all, but I havn't much had the time and to be honest I didn't know what to reply to anyone anyway.
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    Seriously, it's all in your head. I realize that may sound insulting, but it's just the way it is. Your family, your friends, the president, the business men, the priests, etc. None of them have any more purpose in life than you do. In fact, you're blessed with even recognizing the option of death. So many people live their lives without even considering such a thing, or grow up to disregard it as the inexperienced thoughts of an adolescent. Death is a real thing, it's one thing we ALL have in common. As far as life having worth and whether or not to postpone death, it's all in your head. That's all that separates ambitious people from dead people, is the choice to continue living in this hell.

    I'm probably far more suicidal than you, and it's sort my secret. People who know me see me as someone who gets things done, and they think I'm somehow "naturally" disciplined. Rather, I'm naturally suicide prone and am willing to put my life on the line for my goals. To be honest, the more suicidal my life gets the more excited I get about it. Though, a word of advise would be to not let it get to your head too much, or you can end up accidentally hurting others, and that isn't so exciting (unless of course they want to be hurt, in which case it's great!). Is this screwed up of me to say? Am I supposed to be helping you? I don't know. I imagine if you really wanted help you wouldn't be seeking it here, so this is what you get.

    Embrace the pain, man. It's the only way. Otherwise you'll just be depressed the rest of your life.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  17. #16  
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    Seriously have some love and respect for yourself and your family. If you kill yourself your a failure.

    Take Christianity as an example. Christianity is not really about believing in an imaginary god, it is about love and respect. At least that is how I see it.

    I was suicidal once when I was stricken with a horrible case of schizophrenia. But my parents told me to have faith in Christ and that I would pull through. I did not really have any place for faith in Christ at the time considering my condition I was in but I thought about faith and it reminded me of the unconditional love associated with it and it brought me a strange calm. Just something to think about next time you are suicidal. I hope you have already given up on that by now. Remember it really hurts. Sorry I posted so late .
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    Thanks guys, a lot of informative posts. Sorry I havn't replyd at all, but I havn't much had the time and to be honest I didn't know what to reply to anyone anyway.
    To be honest with you, it's tricky for us to know what to say, too. Different people deal with things in different ways; I'm strongly of the belief that this is something you need to sort out for yourself - being tricked into thinking you're happy isn't going to help anyone. By all means run your thoughts by us, but there is no easy answer.

    One thing that I do reccommend, though, is taking up new hobbies, preferably physically exerting ones, and spending time with new people. Maybe a change of scenery. It's no cure-all, but it should get you into a better frame of mind for some soul-searching.


    EDIT: The most urgent question is, do you want to find a reason to live?
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    For me, it helps a lot when I have some understanding of what is going on. It removes some of the control these influences have on you. My advice: try and psychoanalyse the people around you and use what you learn to learn more about yourself. Knowledge is power. Just don't give anyone your results!

    Also, the universe is a beautiful place! Even your parents and your life are beautiful and interesting in their own way if you can look at the situation objectively. I wouldn't want to lose that.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  20. #19  
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    Um...this is an excellent article, both scientific and lyric...for those of you who don't understand this feeling:

    Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself | Bering in Mind, Scientific American Blog Network


    I do want to highlight the fact that sucidally ideating is highlighted as a coping mechanism...a very strange sort of one, but nonetheless so:
    When preparing for suicide, one can finally cease to worry about the future, for one has effectively decided that there will be no future. The past, too, has ceased to matter, for it is nearly ended and will no longer cause grief, worry, or anxiety. And the imminence of death may help focus the mind on the immediate present
    I found this to be both surprising, and rather an "AHA!" sort of moment. I probably engage in thinking about offing myself semi-regularly because it helps to think, yes, thre is a way to escape this misery.

    So I can sort of grapple with the misery...reassured that it's a choice I made, that the misery could be put aside if I chose.
    I don't feel quite so helpless to the pain inside my head, if that makes sense.
    “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”-George Carlin

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Seriously, it's all in your head. I realize that may sound insulting, but it's just the way it is. Your family, your friends, the president, the business men, the priests, etc. None of them have any more purpose in life than you do. In fact, you're blessed with even recognizing the option of death. So many people live their lives without even considering such a thing, or grow up to disregard it as the inexperienced thoughts of an adolescent. Death is a real thing, it's one thing we ALL have in common. As far as life having worth and whether or not to postpone death, it's all in your head. That's all that separates ambitious people from dead people, is the choice to continue living in this hell.

    I'm probably far more suicidal than you, and it's sort my secret. People who know me see me as someone who gets things done, and they think I'm somehow "naturally" disciplined. Rather, I'm naturally suicide prone and am willing to put my life on the line for my goals. To be honest, the more suicidal my life gets the more excited I get about it. Though, a word of advise would be to not let it get to your head too much, or you can end up accidentally hurting others, and that isn't so exciting (unless of course they want to be hurt, in which case it's great!). Is this screwed up of me to say? Am I supposed to be helping you? I don't know. I imagine if you really wanted help you wouldn't be seeking it here, so this is what you get.

    Embrace the pain, man. It's the only way. Otherwise you'll just be depressed the rest of your life.
    "I'm probably far more suicidal than you"
    NO I'M WAY MORE SUICIDAL THAN YOU, I'VE TRIED TO KILL MYSELF TWICE!!
    Sorry that was just a satyrical joke on making a competition of how depressed one is

    You sound like your pretty much in the same boat as me.

    "am willing to put my life on the line for my goals"
    Be careful here. I decided why bother putting my seatbelt on if I'm suicidal anyway. That didn't work out so well, I got a freaking $400 fine for not wearing my seatbelt.
    Its all well and good to put your life on the line (well not really) but make sure that is all you are putting on the line. I would say that in yours and my case, death is far down the list of the worst things that could happen to us, watch out for all those other things that we would place worse than death (getting yourself paralysed, thrown in jail or something silly).
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    Quote Originally Posted by random View Post
    Um...this is an excellent article, both scientific and lyric...for those of you who don't understand this feeling:

    Being Suicidal: What it feels like to want to kill yourself | Bering in Mind, Scientific American Blog Network


    I do want to highlight the fact that sucidally ideating is highlighted as a coping mechanism...a very strange sort of one, but nonetheless so:
    When preparing for suicide, one can finally cease to worry about the future, for one has effectively decided that there will be no future. The past, too, has ceased to matter, for it is nearly ended and will no longer cause grief, worry, or anxiety. And the imminence of death may help focus the mind on the immediate present
    I found this to be both surprising, and rather an "AHA!" sort of moment. I probably engage in thinking about offing myself semi-regularly because it helps to think, yes, thre is a way to escape this misery.

    So I can sort of grapple with the misery...reassured that it's a choice I made, that the misery could be put aside if I chose.
    I don't feel quite so helpless to the pain inside my head, if that makes sense.
    Wow... this is actually exactly what my mind is doing. Thank you for this. Only problem is my mind Isn't focussing on the task at hand, its just procrastonating everything
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    You are clearly a smart man so you know none of that is actually a logical arguement for anything, right? You energetically stated some facts and a bunch of opinions. But that's cool, I get your premise. Here is mine; You are one of those rare and valuable men who is both capable and willing to engage in in-depth self-analysis. At the moment you are letting your brains ability for abstract thought confuse and overwhelm you. The facts are you are a handsome guy, you are articulate and intelligent, you are honest and self-aware. The human gene pool needs you and you need it. Tap into your sense of humor, let yourself just "be" every now and then, go hang out with some people and unless they are hurting others, don't judge them, just relax, have fun, observe, listen, learn, and get yourself laid.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    "I don't know what weapons will be used in World War Three, but World war four will be fought with sticks and stones."
    -Albert Einstein
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    "I'm probably far more suicidal than you"
    NO I'M WAY MORE SUICIDAL THAN YOU, I'VE TRIED TO KILL MYSELF TWICE!!

    Sorry that was just a satyrical joke on making a competition of how depressed one is
    My dad is more suicidal than your dad!

    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    You sound like your pretty much in the same boat as me.

    "am willing to put my life on the line for my goals"
    Be careful here. I decided why bother putting my seatbelt on if I'm suicidal anyway. That didn't work out so well, I got a freaking $400 fine for not wearing my seatbelt.
    Its all well and good to put your life on the line (well not really) but make sure that is all you are putting on the line. I would say that in yours and my case, death is far down the list of the worst things that could happen to us, watch out for all those other things that we would place worse than death (getting yourself paralysed, thrown in jail or something silly).
    Exactly. It's weird how in America I feel more free but I still wear a seatbelt. Where I am now, I feel caged in but can never find a seatbelt. I've thought about the paralysis and jail possibilities and I'm not too worried. Yes, most of the time I would avoid these situations but I'm not going to never cross a street just because I might get hit by a car. Think about it though. If shit happens it happens, and you can't DO shit about it. So, you might as well learn to take it, or leave it if you're thinking literally.

    Lydiafre, I like what you have to say a lot. Though I have one thought. I think there's more to getting laid, than just getting laid. And I could see a situation involving getting laid leading someone into even worse depression... actually I have seen that happen. Just a thought. I think the sense of humor hits the spot though. I love to laugh at life. People often think I have a terrible sense of humor, but really they just don't know what I'm laughing at.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  25. #24  
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    Wow... this is actually exactly what my mind is doing. Thank you for this. Only problem is my mind Isn't focussing on the task at hand, its just procrastonating everything
    About that procrastinating thing? Umm...lack of motivation is a hallmark sign of Major Depressive Disorder. Inability to focus, again, a hallmark. Not being able to think very well? Yep, yep...Depression mulches your cognitive function mildly to really thoroughly, depending on the person.

    Of course there's a lot of other hallmarks:

    Anhedonia is the inability to experience pleasure...from anything.

    Another hallmark: a sense that you are hopeless-that because things suck now, they always will. Third symptom, sense of worthlessness. Fourth, helplessness to change any of what's going on.
    You think things are always going to be this bad...you don't think you can possibly succeed, therefore aren't worth much? and don't believe you can do anything about how bad you feel?

    Depression and anxiety disorders often run together, you know...seriously, similar mechanisms seem to be involved...and you just had an anxiety attack, first onset??? uh-huh.

    Are you sure you're not depressed?
    Here's some depression inventories, just simple little ones...

    Psych Central - Depression Screening Test
    http://www.relationshipsincorporated.com/ER.pdf
    Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression Scale (CES-D)

    (Wow, I scored an 84 on the top one, and a 51 on the bottom one...woo-hoo! I suck! I note I'm feeling better ATM...)

    I got talked out of suicide last month...I have a good friend who said he would. I really felt horrible this time, I wanted to die enough to probably act on it...and at the time I had been better, so the pistol was unlocked...and loaded with hollowpoint bullets.
    ...Slight miscalculation there....

    I asked my friend to talk me out of it...he sure as h*ll did!
    OW! MAN! he laid on a mean guilt trip! He was ruthless.
    I was angry at him for keeping me here for a couple of days...now embarrassed I put him through me at my worst, I usually hole up when I'm in that much agony...

    Regarding risk taking behavior...on the one hand, I always wear my seatbelt. On the second hand, I have plates in my arm and a very tidy scar through my eyebrow from a spectacular wreck that would have killed me...if I had not been wearing my seatbelt.

    On the gripping hand, I bought a '78 motorbike...needs carb work ATM...
    Last edited by random; August 19th, 2011 at 06:40 AM.
    “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”-George Carlin

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    I've thought through this entire argument independently, a couple of months ago. Nice to know i'm not alone.
    My conclusion was that i'm young and there are bound to be some enjoyable times ahead.. Let's see what happens in 10 years time. Email me if you'd like to discuss this stuff, i'd like to pick your brain hehe.
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    I too suffer with suicidal tendencies, I don't act on it for fear that we do live in a cyclic universe and death is just a transference of scale.
    *Better the devil you know attitude.*


    *edit.
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  28. #27  
    Forum Sophomore somfooleishfool's Avatar
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    You are clearly a smart man so you know none of that is actually a logical arguement for anything, right?
    Seems perfectly logical to me.

    You are one of those rare and valuable men who is both capable and willing to engage in in-depth self-analysis.
    I don't see what is valuable about this though you're correct this is rare

    At the moment you are letting your brains ability for abstract thought confuse and overwhelm you. The facts are you are a handsome guy, you are articulate and intelligent, you are honest and self-aware.
    matter of opinion

    The human gene pool needs you and you need it.
    My genes need to be discontinued. I am descended from people that would most benefit the human race by putting a bullet through their head. Any children of mine would almost certainly be messed up in the head and most likely dyslexic or something.

    Tap into your sense of humor, let yourself just "be" every now and then, go hang out with some people and unless they are hurting others, don't judge them, just relax, have fun, observe, listen, learn
    I don't laugh much coz everyone sucks at clever funny's.

    and get yourself laid.
    It's been a long time since I've gone more thn like 2 days without doing this. I go insane after 3 days



    I'm really sorry for tackling down all your points like this. I'm in a shitty mood and It wasn't my intention to be so negative. I've jst been increasingly depressed for the last several days and... I'm jst guna shutup, if I had any brains I just wouldnt hit "post"
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    I tend to take the opposite stance, yet come to the same conclusion to go on living. Rather, my idiom comes from Milton's devil, and it's long but ends in the well known phrase "better to reign in hell than to serve in heav'n" because "to reign is worth ambition though in hell." Though, I think I already said this (I guess I like it a lot). The idea is that suicide is to fall slave to luxury, whereas life is to reign in hell. This can be taken to other realms to. To live an unconscious, or unmindful life is to be as good as dead (to serve in heaven), whereas to face the reality of life and live freely from "worldly desires" is to reign free, though in hell. In either case, to "reign in hell" is to chose the free, real, unknown, yet "harder" life whereas to serve in heaven is to give in to the luxuries of life at the cost of freedom, choice, ambition. Similar to "ignorance is bliss;" better said as "ignorance is death."

    @Max Time Taken,
    What do you mean by "transference of scale?"
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  30. #29  
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    I feel I owe replys to everyone as I havn't been motivated to do so yet.

    Suicide hurts.
    That won't be my problem once I'm dead


    That was a very interestin read.!!!

    Do you recall EVER feelin the emotion of empithy.???
    Difficult to answer to be honest. In the sence of "feeling other peoples emotions" no. I do from time to time avoid hurting other peoples feelings but I think this comes back around to selfish motives as I don't want to have to put up with their response to me being unsympathetic.



    You aught to read the Hagakure.
    there is more written here than I can be bothered to analyse and respond to right now.



    You blame and point out that others are narrow minded even calling your father the stupidest person you know. Yet i have to say you could change your view on life just by being open minded.
    I'm about as open minded as they come, I will change my knowledge of something if someone demonstrates that I am wrong.

    Like stated before if life seems so bleak and granted you might have your reasons, then the only way is up. You are 20 years old, by any account that constitutes only say 10 years of actual experience. 10 years is nothing, it's a moment in time, a snapshot.
    You may be right. I actually do agree with you, but I've always struggled to consider the future, I'm very whimsicle I live for today and now, at a stretch I might concider what is going to happent the next day.

    A placebo can cure anything from mild headaches to fears, such is the power of persuasion and if you believe so much you know what you are talking about then please by all means try and prove yourself wrong. Maybe in the course of all your "struggles with life" you might in the end find a life in there somewhere.
    I swear I'm all but immune to placebo effects. Placebo never works for me because I always over analyse it and if I do start feeling a placebo effect, I immediatly notice it and it goes away.


    replying to everyone has turned out to be a much bigger job than I anticipated.

    Ill finish this with a question that I'm pretty sure the answer to is a big resounding "NO".
    Is there anything that actually helps depression? From what I've seen of antidepressants with people I know, it really messes with their head. Councellors never agree with me on anything
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    I tend to take the opposite stance, yet come to the same conclusion to go on living. Rather, my idiom comes from Milton's devil, and it's long but ends in the well known phrase "better to reign in hell than to serve in heav'n" because "to reign is worth ambition though in hell." Though, I think I already said this (I guess I like it a lot). The idea is that suicide is to fall slave to luxury, whereas life is to reign in hell. This can be taken to other realms to. To live an unconscious, or unmindful life is to be as good as dead (to serve in heaven), whereas to face the reality of life and live freely from "worldly desires" is to reign free, though in hell. In either case, to "reign in hell" is to chose the free, real, unknown, yet "harder" life whereas to serve in heaven is to give in to the luxuries of life at the cost of freedom, choice, ambition. Similar to "ignorance is bliss;" better said as "ignorance is death."

    @Max Time Taken,
    What do you mean by "transference of scale?"
    Ignorance definatly is bliss, I do envy the ignorant sometimes.... but then I remember how pointless the lives they live are .
    Why would you work till your too old to physically continue working. You havnt done anything to improve the world. you havnt had any fun along the way. you are now to old to have fun with what money you did earn. what the hell is the point of it? (sorry grammar went to hell here)
    also I gave up trying to understand "max time taken" no offence meant to him but I can guarantee that his answer to your question will leave you more confused than you would have been had you just taken what he said in the first place with a grain of salt. (idiom) incase this phrase made no sence to you
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  32. #31  
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    Honestly, yes I think there is, but you're not going to like my answer.

    You have to understand that you are in control. Complete control. In a way that no one else is. Pills attempt to fix an imbalance which in turn changes your feelings. The problem here is that in order to maintain this "better" state of mind you have to rely on the medication. I have people very close to me like this and I can say it really sucks. The best thing you can do, in my humble opinion, is to accept your state of mind and commit to a long but slow process of retraining your mind.

    Use your skill of self reflection. Write up what you're good at and what you're not, or where you'd like to improve. Put stupid things on there like, "smile at people" or "listen to everyone regardless of how stupid they are" (keeping in mind that listening doesn't have to be agreeing or disagreeing, just listen). Start with simple things that you can do anytime, anywhere. Just as we can train our bodies to do certain movements with more and more precision over time, so can we train our minds to think certain ways with continued practice. Pick a goal, small or large and keep going for it. It doesn't have to be logical. Logic can be applied to anything regardless, so it doesn't really matter. Do more things you hate, like self help, religion, or dharma practice. These philosophies come out of time tested methods of understanding and controlling the human psyche. Humans, since the dawn of time, have always dealt with issues of this nature. All the stupid conflict is just the natural result of building judgmental systems that people take too seriously. Don't judge, just be aware.

    This is one path, and it's a hard one. But honestly, it's a worthy goal in itself. Mankind is so obsessed with technology, science, religion but has yet to learn how to command it's own mind.

    This is just my opinion. My experience is that depressed people fall to the same argument as cigarette smokers, and that is "you don't know how it feels." So be it. We all find our own way. What others say or suggest, you can take it or leave it.

    If you are so close to suicide I have been convinced that it is worth medication, but don't get high on the stuff because there's always the inevitable crash and the cycle never stops.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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    One more thing, which is actually the topic of a thread I'd like to start soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    You havnt done anything to improve the world.
    What does it mean to "improve" the world? You don't have to answer that now. I will try to start the thread soon.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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    The last time I got given prozac by my doctor I tried to overdose on them. I got 23 of them down but they tasted like crap and then mum walked in so next thing I know I'm on my way to hospital. If I have pills near me I tend to try overdose when I get low, so pills arent an option really.
    What you suggested sounds strait up difficult. I don't know if my mind is capable of that, I'm bad at mental excersices, I over analyse it and wonder whether im doing it right or wrong and I just end up not knowing what im trying to achieve.

    Your idea of taking up religeon was an interesting one. I guess it could be interesting to trial feining religeon. noone has to know I dont really beleve. and speaking to "god" could be a better alternative to speaking to "fred" haha (if anyone reading this is confused by this, it is in reference to this thread Is there any harm in inventing an imaginary friend?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    One more thing, which is actually the topic of a thread I'd like to start soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    You havnt done anything to improve the world.
    What does it mean to "improve" the world? You don't have to answer that now. I will try to start the thread soon.
    I guess brilliant f***ing geniuses think alike (is that how the idiom goes? i forget )
    I was going to make a thread along those lines too.

    I think to "improve the world" you have to either A: make a discovery or B: do a job or own a company that benifits other peoples quality of life rather than just extorting human wants for money.
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    Cure for depression, not yet. Not enough is understood about what emotion is. A sense of purpose backed up with true supporting love is the best I know of.

    With your analytical and self assessment skills there is a good chance you could help "improve the world" in what you discover about yourself.

    DaBob I am sure you are aware that in the cyclic universe everything expands from a singularity and eventually returns to a singularity. Expansion and compression are examples of scale transference.
    To get philosophical, every thought synapse that occurs in your brain gives off a signal,see morse code for transmission from electrical spark.
    So to consider the signals you have given off over all of your existence your "conscious/memories" cover a large portion of space. Could it be possible that when we die we are that energy in space ? Could we be condensed into another form ? Who knows but I at least consider the possibility.
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    Hehe...joke's on you...one of the reason's SSRI's are so widely prescribed is it's almost impossible to suicide on them.

    You'd just get to go psychotic and take basically a really strange trip? imagine everything, including your body sensations, breaking into panes of angular glasslike shapes that kind of shimmer...something like that.
    Less fun than when I melted the car...(it got better...)

    Serotonin overload...which is what a lot of the hallucinogens do in part, I believe.

    Not to do that again.

    Happy pills have been a partial solution for me...but I have severe depression and PTSD, such that I can't function off meds.

    I figured out that life is pointless. But if I'm focused on that, that is a symptom of depression.
    Last edited by random; August 20th, 2011 at 12:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool
    I guess brilliant f***ing geniuses think alike (is that how the idiom goes? i forget )
    I was going to make a thread along those lines too.
    Ha, I don't know. We'll see. I have a tendency for making everything sound completely pointless (which I supposed I've been doing the opposite of lately).

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Time Taken
    With your analytical and self assessment skills there is a good chance you could help "improve the world" in what you discover about yourself.
    Now we are getting somewhere!

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Time Taken
    DaBob I am sure you are aware that in the cyclic universe everything expands from a singularity and eventually returns to a singularity. Expansion and compression are examples of scale transference.
    Of course I was aware of that. Isn't that one of the universal truths of all existence!

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Time Taken
    To get philosophical, every thought synapse that occurs in your brain gives off a signal,see morse code for transmission from electrical spark.
    So to consider the signals you have given off over all of your existence your "conscious/memories" cover a large portion of space. Could it be possible that when we die we are that energy in space ? Could we be condensed into another form ? Who knows but I at least consider the possibility.
    I've actually never got that far. I've always been stuck on where the thoughts are coming from in the first place. Maybe they just come out of nowhere, like "the big bang." Or maybe some holy man floating in the sky puts them there, only to be distracted by the not so holy man in the pits of hell. Or, is it that my thoughts are expanding from a singularity (?) to eventually return to one. Wait, I think that line was in the Dao De Jing... let me see... "If you would have a thing shrink, You must first stretch it; If you would have a thing weakened, You must first strengthen it..." Ok, maybe it's not exactly the same, but it's close. Sounds kind of like a fancy modern term for Yin-Yang to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by random
    I figured out that life is pointless. But if I'm focused on that, that is a symptom of depression.
    Now there's an important, though random, comment!

    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool
    Your idea of taking up religeon was an interesting one. I guess it could be interesting to trial feining religeon. noone has to know I dont really beleve. and speaking to "god" could be a better alternative to speaking to "fred"
    Actually I've got a friend who was just doing this. He's very skeptical by nature and I really related to him because, though he was skeptical, he still had a fascination with spiritual life. He just read the Bhagavad Gita and started dedicating everything he did to a deity. It was more an experiment than anything else. He said that it helped to take away the personal judgments of whether a task is painful, uncomfortable, or boring (or even pleasurable) by doing the task for a greater being (which I believe represents nature). I still haven't read the book myself but look forward to doing so shortly.

    I was thinking more on the lines of Buddhism, though it is generally best when discovered alone. The nature of Buddhist philosophy is quite sneaky. For example, the first Noble Truth is that suffering is inevitable. The Fourth is that there is a way out of this suffering. I thought that was BS. To want to achieve a state of non-suffering was paradoxical to Buddhism in that it was a desire that would cause more suffering. I believed suffering was not only inevitable, but also essential and important. My great discovery was that through this state of mind I relieved my suffering. That's just one example. Cool stuff like that happens all the time. You don't have to go to church or a temple and sing gospels or chant Tibetan mantras. A sangha (community) is helpful though. Remember that forcing it can make it worse. First intention, then the rest will follow in kind. Practice is not an action but a process. There are no cures in life, just distractions to keep us from practicing! Buddhism also has a great sense of humor, in my opinion.

    You'll find your own way, if you want to.

    I personally like popular media. I've always loved science and philosophy but I've also always had a horrible attention span and never read when I was a kid. If it weren't for film or video games I may not have got so inspired to read as much as I have now. Favorites: Fight Club, The Matrix (obviously), Revolver (the UK version), Ghost in the Shell, South Park etc, etc. We can judge these films on cinematography, or acting, or storyline, or we can see deeper into what they are trying to say. In the same way, I could discount Socrates as some old dude who just likes to start arguments and cause trouble, or I could actually listen to what he is saying. Music can be the same way of course, though I don't know a lot of popular music these days.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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    Sorry, it looks as if I may have strayed from the point. The reason I brought up the film was because they have religious like philosophies. In fact, some of those examples actually have strong cult followings. Though, just as religion can be over-interpreted so can film. I think I recently read about some really wacky sounding matrix cult. Didn't make any sense to me.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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    Originally Posted by DaBOB
    "I've actually never got that far. I've always been stuck on where the thoughts are coming from in the first place. Maybe they just come out of nowhere, like "the big bang." Or maybe some holy man floating in the sky puts them there, only to be distracted by the not so holy man in the pits of hell. Or, is it that my thoughts are expanding from a singularity (?) to eventually return to one. Wait, I think that line was in the Dao De Jing... let me see... "If you would have a thing shrink, You must first stretch it; If you would have a thing weakened, You must first strengthen it..." Ok, maybe it's not exactly the same, but it's close. Sounds kind of like a fancy modern term for Yin-Yang to me."


    Actually it's a correlation of a few religions and science. The origin of thought is what inspired me to write all of my threads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    I feel I owe replys to everyone as I havn't been motivated to do so yet.

    Suicide hurts.
    That won't be my problem once I'm dead
    It's more of a logistical problem than a hypothetical argument. When it comes down to it, it's much easier to live than it is to choose to die.

    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    Ill finish this with a question that I'm pretty sure the answer to is a big resounding "NO".
    Is there anything that actually helps depression? From what I've seen of antidepressants with people I know, it really messes with their head. Councellors never agree with me on anything
    Antidepressants reduce the 'symptoms' of depression, rather than tackle the cause. Similarly, exercise, creative hobbies and forming new relationships can stabilise your mood. 'Curing' depression is something you have to work out for yourself - let me know if you ever figure it out.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    I thank lots of this good advice woud be mor effective if Somfoolishfool wasnt depressed like he is.!!!

    My sister was depressed for about 3 years... her husband keep tellin her she woud get over it if she woud get busy wit cannin food an sewin clothes an cookin an workin in the garden... she said she wasnt suicidal... but she was content to jus set in a chair an stare at the floor... pills an Doctors never did help much... but after 3 years she once agan was findin joy in doin stuff an seems a lot like her old self now.!!!
    Go here an play the "Guess Game".!!!

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/gener...uess-what.html

    When the curent game is guessed... post anuther photo for us to... "Guess what this is" :-)
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    I figured out that life is pointless.
    From an objective viewpoint, sure, but from our subjective viewpoint as humans, that is a profoundly inaccurate statement IMO.

    As social beings, we live in a society where we all influence each other; we all contribute to the world we live in. What can one man do of significance you may ask? Well, apart from becoming some kind of a historical figure, quite a hell of a lot. I think it was Ghandi that said: "Be the change you want to see in the world". If your immediate social circle is ignorant, spread knowledge. If they are intolerant, spread tolerance. If they are insensitive, spread empathy. This doesn't mean you have to become a preacher of sorts, it just means that living the life you want to live in terms of how you see the world and how you treat others according to how you want to be treated, rubs off on people. You meet hundreds of people every week and you have the power to affect a great many of them, even if neither of you realise it.

    Why should you care? Well, ironically, it starts with yourself. Try honest introspection from as objective a stance as you can. With a realisation that we are all much more similar than we are different, you can start to relate what you are feeling to those around you and vice versa. Understanding the negative influences in your life takes much of its power away and opens up the way to developing real habitual empathy towards those around you. You don't have apathy towards yourself and how things around you make you feel, so you already have the drive and starting tools to start understanding those around you.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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    Im getting rather annoyed with this depression. it has only been getting worse and worse over the last few days and its not like its up and down... i just feel shit all day every day. from an analytacle perspective i just want it to go stick itself, its not wanted and it should go away, i have 2 days now to do a 2 week assignment that i havnt started
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    Oddly enough, I don't see other's lives as pointless. For instance, the idea that Fool would off himself bothers me, it seems like he's got a lot to live for.
    But in general, life is pointless, and in specific, I don't believe I justify being here and using resources. I care about others, this is why I'm still here. I've been told I would hurt them awfully.

    Why they like me I don't know.
    Last edited by random; August 21st, 2011 at 06:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    i have 2 days now to do a 2 week assignment that i havnt started
    Focus on this:::

    Tell the person in charge (as soon as possible) that you are depressed and will not have your assignment on time... that *you are under the care of professionals for your illness and would like to know what your options are as far as your "school work" is concerned... that will release the fear of unknown repercussions and allow you to make plans based on reality.!!!

    *If you're not curently under the care of professionals... why not.???
    Last edited by marnixR; August 21st, 2011 at 09:08 AM. Reason: corrected "creative" to standard spelling
    Go here an play the "Guess Game".!!!

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/gener...uess-what.html

    When the curent game is guessed... post anuther photo for us to... "Guess what this is" :-)
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  47. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    i have 2 days now to do a 2 week assignment that i havnt started
    Focus on this:::

    Tell the person in charge (as soon as possible) that you are depressed and will not have your assignment on time... that *you are under the care of professionals for your illness and would like to know what your options are as far as your "school work" is concerned... that will release the fear of unknown repercussions and allow you to make plans based on reality.!!!

    *If you're not curently under the care of professionals... why not.???
    because professionals are hopeless? they can't help at all
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    Suggestion: Make list of things you are NOT doing because what you ARE doing is not working, arrange in order of preference/practicality, try each one and see what are results. Scientific. Lay off alcohol too, it is a depressant and bad for your health generally. Exercise? Sure, why not?
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
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    Yeah, alcohol is a killer. In fact if that is in the equation that's where I would start. And I would do everything in my power to deal with it. The things you give up now to stop drinking is nothing compared to the loss you will witness if you continue. I don't know if that's even an issue here though.

    Yes, exercise is awesome! The most important thing to keep in mind with all of this however, is that there is no insta-cure. If you want to change things about your mental state, if you want to stop drinking, if you want to exercise, it will all take time. If you are persistent than you can develop the habits.

    Like when I teach martial arts. Sure, after a few months you can defend yourself but you won't be mastered for 5-6 years. By that point they realize just as I did, that you're never mastered. Just keep grinding away.

    When I developed a chronic back injury this is what my doctor told me; you will suffer the rest of your life, unless you change your life. Doctors and "professionals" can proscribe pills but only you can change yourself.

    Never trust anyone simply because they are a "professional."
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  50. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Finger Prince View Post
    Lay off alcohol too, it is a depressant and bad for your health generally.
    You say this, but social drinking kept my depression at bay for 3 years.

    Admittedly, antisocial drinking undid all of this in 3 months...
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  51. #50  
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    Discontinuing alcohol at least temporarily would lead to clearer thinking part of the time and more economical use of funds. Drinking and driving can lead to severe legal consequences even at trivial level of intoxication in Prince's area. Noticed woman blowing into device driving on freeway, those things not cheap- also, blow and fail too many times and even more expense.

    But enough, almost- drinking can obscure underlying organic cause of suicidal depression, which is topic. Most on this thread have had some experience of same, it would appear.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
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    drinking is the only thing that helps. I've spent all day every day this last week feeling close to tears, getting drunk is the only temporary cure.
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  53. #52  
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    Thoughts...
    You may have tried medications before...but they might not have been enough to overcome the emotional buzzsaw it sounds like your family might have been like.
    I'm also wondering which ones and for how long?
    Or maybe you are not depressed...but are having this: Mixed state (psychiatry) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Too...with therapy...therapy did not help so long as I was being verbally and physically abused at home. One hour a week did not compensate for all the other hours they were grinding me into the dirt.

    Wondering if your family is why it was useless.

    Too...hallmark signs of depression include lack of interest in sex...lack of energy, lack of appetite, being slowed down.
    You have the sexdrive of a manic rabbit...*shrug*
    Again, depression inventories:
    Depression Tests: CESD, Goldberg, QIDS, Wakefield, Beck Depression Inventory
    This link has further links to four of them, try all and get a cross-sample.
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  54. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    drinking is the only thing that helps. I've spent all day every day this last week feeling close to tears, getting drunk is the only temporary cure.
    Alcohol is probably exacerbating your problem and will make it more difficult for qualified and objective persons to treat. Prince suggests it is not unreasonable to suspend drinking pending resolution of problem, depression. As for suicide, it can wait. Easier to change your mind in future before suicide than after.

    Make productive use of whatever time you choose to allow yourself, young dotcomrade.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
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  55. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    drinking is the only thing that helps. I've spent all day every day this last week feeling close to tears, getting drunk is the only temporary cure.
    Like I said, social drinking can be a good thing. Using alcohol alone to alleviate depression, rather than as a social tool, is deeply unhealthy. All you are doing is increasing the likelihood of an alcohol dependance, suicide attempts, and further depression in the future.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    Indeed, it is well-documented that substance abusers have higher incidence of self-injury, not always intentional. Prince's opinion only, but statement, "drinking is the only thing that helps" may indicate dependence already. Whether help offered is accepted or not is up to suffering alcoholic, but it would be shame to lose a member of forum, agreed?
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
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  57. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    Im getting rather annoyed with this depression. it has only been getting worse and worse over the last few days and its not like its up and down... i just feel shit all day every day. from an analytacle perspective i just want it to go stick itself, its not wanted and it should go away, i have 2 days now to do a 2 week assignment that i havnt started
    Have you ever been free from stresses overwhelming or beyond your control? Who set you up to this latest obligation? If you: I wonder do you structure life so it's a constant strain?

    Have you ever totally gotten away from it all? You live in New Zealand, with summer approaching, a young man without real obligations. In British Columbia we have a lot of underpopulated islands to which people in your situation wisely escape. Go for weeks, without plan or promise to return. The key I think is in the self-imposed condition wherein you really can't sanely worry about anything. Your only goal should be to grow a beard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    Im getting rather annoyed with this depression. it has only been getting worse and worse over the last few days and its not like its up and down... i just feel shit all day every day. from an analytacle perspective i just want it to go stick itself, its not wanted and it should go away, i have 2 days now to do a 2 week assignment that i havnt started
    Have you ever been free from stresses overwhelming or beyond your control? Who set you up to this latest obligation? If you: I wonder do you structure life so it's a constant strain?

    Have you ever totally gotten away from it all? You live in New Zealand, with summer approaching, a young man without real obligations. In British Columbia we have a lot of underpopulated islands to which people in your situation wisely escape. Go for weeks, without plan or promise to return. The key I think is in the self-imposed condition wherein you really can't sanely worry about anything. Your only goal should be to grow a beard.
    life always has an obligation, thats what I don't like about it. Short of getting rich and retiring early, at no point in your life are you free from 'economic slavery'. You always have to have a job because if you don't, you can't pay for living expenses.
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    http://psychcentral.com/cgi-bin/depression.cgi

    h
    ell... I didn't even biased that test, I only checked things that I was sure about. 54< =major depression. I had 62.
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    Which means you have a physical chemical imbalance. Dude, try to forget about your dislike of therapists and get some medication. The thing with happy pills is that they are a bit hit and miss unfortunately, but once you have the right dosage and product, you can really see the benefit. Just give it a chance, won't you? It might be difficult to imagine feeling better and more optimistic, but you can do it.
    Last edited by KALSTER; August 24th, 2011 at 04:18 AM.
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    Somfooleishfool already tried Prozac apparently. If not, take KALSTER's advice.

    Just for six months or so: It'll make your feelings impossible to hurt - then learning this your behaviour will adjust accordingly... and you'll likely be a carefree asshole (if the sense of immunity doesn't lead you to casual suicide), but that experience can give perspective of what you're capable of. You can remind yourself of that after quitting the medication.


    On the other hand, maybe a part of you wants to delve deeper into this feeling, for a resolution, and that's why you're rejecting chemical fixes. In that case I stand by the traditional solution of running off to the bush and returning only when you've grown a beard and seen things in the campfire.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong View Post
    Somfooleishfool already tried Prozac apparently. If not, take KALSTER's advice.

    Just for six months or so: It'll make your feelings impossible to hurt - then learning this your behaviour will adjust accordingly... and you'll likely be a carefree asshole (if the sense of immunity doesn't lead you to casual suicide), but that experience can give perspective of what you're capable of. You can remind yourself of that after quitting the medication.


    On the other hand, maybe a part of you wants to delve deeper into this feeling, for a resolution, and that's why you're rejecting chemical fixes. In that case I stand by the traditional solution of running off to the bush and returning only when you've grown a beard and seen things in the campfire.
    I didn't really give prozac a fair go. I was on it for like 2 weeks before it got in the way of my euphoria when getting high on weed, so I stopped taking it. A year or so later was when I did the overdose (prozac was the only pills i could find).

    I am thinking I might go seek help tomorrow, this is getting beyond a joke. BTW I havn't smoked weed in two years
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    BTW I havn't smoked weed in two years
    Good for you.

    There are more products than just Prozac though. You just might have to go through a period of trying to find the right one and dosage for you. Once you get it, I am sure things will start looking up. Good luck!

    How old are you if I may ask?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    How old are you if I may ask?
    He mentioned 20 somewhere if I am not mistaken.
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  65. #64  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pong
    On the other hand, maybe a part of you wants to delve deeper into this feeling, for a resolution, and that's why you're rejecting chemical fixes. In that case I stand by the traditional solution of running off to the bush and returning only when you've grown a beard and seen things in the campfire.
    Seriously though. If you have not already try doing a diary. It's amazing to read about these experiences later. I just went through probably the worse depression of my life (which honestly wasn't that bad but I can say I didn't really do anything for about four months). The one thing I did do was write, and write like hell. And, I had a friend who was far to good to me that I could yell insults at; I'd have preferred a punching bag. You can go back a look at how you felt and what you did. You can see what things worked, what didn't, what patterns developed. Then you can learn.

    Forget the island, just make your only goal to grow a beard. You barely need an income for that. Just enough for a space with a roof, food, and maybe some grooming tools if you don't want to look like a wild animal. It would take a lot of stresses out. You wouldn't need family, friends, automobiles, alcohol, drugs, anything. Just a beard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admin
    He mentioned 20 somewhere if I am not mistaken.
    I knew admins were good for something.
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    20 is correct.

    Edit: stuff writing a diary, that sounds like a mammoth effort. My writing is litterally worse than a 5 year olds, it's almost illegable a lot of the time, I don't enjoy writing and I doubt I would benefit from it. I think you might be a reading and writing learner, I'm a kinesthetic learner, a diary would do me no good.

    2nd edit: its 7:15 am and I havn't managed to sleep yet. I have to "get up" at 8:30 to get ready for uni.... it's going to be a tough day. I can't just bunk today no matter how crap I'm feeling coz my parents are home again (they were away for a week). They would kill me if they knew I'd bunked the last several days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    http://psychcentral.com/cgi-bin/depression.cgi

    h
    ell... I didn't even biased that test, I only checked things that I was sure about. 54< =major depression. I had 62.
    77 for me. It proves nothing.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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  68. #67  
    Forum Sophomore cluelusshusbund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    I didn't really give prozac a fair go.

    I am thinking I might go seek help tomorrow, this is getting beyond a joke. BTW I havn't smoked weed in two years
    You suceeded in gettin off the weed... that was the hard part... good for you.!!!

    Prozac an simular drugs have turned LOTS of peopls lives around for the beter an the odds are in you'r favor.!!!

    I worked wit a guy who was depressed... it took about 9 weeks... but the 3rd type of medicine he tryed worked an he was back to his old self agan.!!!
    Go here an play the "Guess Game".!!!

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/gener...uess-what.html

    When the curent game is guessed... post anuther photo for us to... "Guess what this is" :-)
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  69. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    20 is correct.

    Edit: stuff writing a diary, that sounds like a mammoth effort. My writing is litterally worse than a 5 year olds, it's almost illegable a lot of the time, I don't enjoy writing and I doubt I would benefit from it. I think you might be a reading and writing learner, I'm a kinesthetic learner, a diary would do me no good.
    On the contrary, I am a martial artist, stuntman (in a manner of speaking), and constantly repair things. I started my journals by typing them. I only moved to paper because I like its authenticity. You can't lock paper though. Anyways, it's just an idea. When I first started it I did it just for focus. For example, I would set goals for the day and use the diary as a way to see how far I got. Words can be motions too. Just like we learn the movements of driving a car physically, so do we learn how to write physically. Especially many Asian languages. They can be very beautiful. I'm not trying to convince you, but rather I naturally oppose people who assume just because they learn a certain way means that can't learn. I particularly like to do things I know I'm terrible at, such as reading and writing, simply because the challenge is greater. You only limits are the ones which you impose. Your body and mind are under your rule, no one else's.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  70. #69  
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    You're 20,
    = grown man,
    shut up about your parents,
    move out,
    get a shit monotonous job and pay reant in a shitty bedsit.
    Quit Uni, it just stresses you. Maybe try it again in a few years.
    Monotonous/repetitive jobs help one focus their mind and find peace.
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  71. #70  
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    I got 80 on the psychcentral the other day, am feeling better today.

    Happy pills, therapy.

    Prozac takes a full month to build to dose!
    “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”-George Carlin

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  72. #71  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedronaut View Post
    Monotonous/repetitive jobs help one focus their mind and find peace.
    In my experience, monotonous and repetative jobs allow the mind to wander, often to places best not visited.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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    I once heard of a quadriplegic who committed suicide the only way he/she could, by biting their own tongue so much so that he/she eventually choked to death, swollen tongue and all. Is it true? I really don't know for sure but the point is this: there is usually someone more worse off than you. Stephen Hawking is worse off than you, yet he continues his life's work. I'm not saying he's feeling great about his situation or that he never contemplated suicide but it appears as if he's over it. The trick is to take inspiration from others who like you considered suicide but recovered or from those who lived full lives despite huge physical disabilities.
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  74. #73  
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    Eh...he could end up like me, good years and bad.
    I have enough good days that I can say life is worth it.
    I have a really cool wife, and we sort of manage to pay bills on a tiny income.

    Could be worse.

    Don't think I've had an entire year since I was 12 that I have not thought about killing myself. Probably not even a six-month stretch. These days it's something that idly turns over in my head at least once a week.

    Wow, that kind of sucks. Well, still here though.
    “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”-George Carlin

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  75. #74  
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    Quote Originally Posted by random View Post
    Don't think I've had an entire year since I was 12 that I have not thought about killing myself. Probably not even a six-month stretch. These days it's something that idly turns over in my head at least once a week.
    Old habits die hard.

    I'm curious though. Don't you ever just think of it like that? I mean, you're obviously not killing yourself so isn't it a waste of time to dwell on it? There's so much out there on training or retraining your mind's habits. It's essentially what my favorite thing to do is. It's not easy but it's doable. Is this not being considered or are the methods not working? Are the methods being exhausted? Thoughts, just like body movements are controllable and trainable.

    What about methods used in Buddhist psychology or hypnotism for example? Even self hypnotism.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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    I definitely know how you feel. If you ever want to talk, please send me a personal message.

    I too have difficulty with my parents. I resent them for the things they have done but at the same time I feel that I should love them to make them happy. I was a very wanted child and had a fantastic childhood until I was 10.

    I do not hold any hope for humanity and feel that life is ultimately pointless. I figure that the sole purpose of life is progress, which is ultimately passed onto our successors. They, too, go through the same cycle. Essentially, I figure that we are progressing for the sake of progress; we're working towards a goal that's not really there. I keep telling myself to think positively and live in the now, because there is no point in dwelling over the uncontrollable future. These two ideas conflict heavily.

    I look at myself and all I can ever say is "somehow, I don't think that I am ever going to be particularly happy". I know that I am smart and have the potential to maintain a good career, but no matter how much I tell myself that, the awful sadness just never goes away. I will get a good grade or have a great weekend, and I'll be absolutely elated with myself but that knot in my stomach is always there. Like a reality check.


    So, I think, "what's the point?"
    I think it's the confusion that really leads me to these thoughts. Not knowing or understanding; it's so overwhelming and I feel inclined to make it stop. If I had firm, undoubtable attitudes toward my parents, myself and life in general, I think that I would not be so edgy and overwhelmed.
    Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. Albert Einstein
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  77. #76  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by random View Post
    Don't think I've had an entire year since I was 12 that I have not thought about killing myself. Probably not even a six-month stretch. These days it's something that idly turns over in my head at least once a week.
    Old habits die hard.

    I'm curious though. Don't you ever just think of it like that? I mean, you're obviously not killing yourself so isn't it a waste of time to dwell on it? There's so much out there on training or retraining your mind's habits. It's essentially what my favorite thing to do is. It's not easy but it's doable. Is this not being considered or are the methods not working? Are the methods being exhausted? Thoughts, just like body movements are controllable and trainable.

    What about methods used in Buddhist psychology or hypnotism for example? Even self hypnotism.
    Well...the idle thought of killing myself makes me feel as if I have an escape route...and oddly enough allows me to face the gods'awful days. As for retraining my mind, I am doing that, it will take time.

    Edited to add...I've been in a lot of mental pain lately, such that offing myself has become something I might actually do...and I'm working on not being in that much pain.

    I'm a sporadic meditator; trying again to institute a daily practice...it helps with tolerating the agony and not going off on people, also the panic attacks I've been having recently...if I was not familiar with breathing meditation I'd probably be facing assault and battery charges because someone got too close to me at the wrong time in a grocery store and the fear took over...and I pounded them.

    I...Have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from dysfunctional family olympics...so it's not just major depression, I have long stretches of times when I get to deal with flashbacks.

    Martial arts are awesome for throwing off negativity, aren't they?
    Last edited by random; August 30th, 2011 at 02:08 PM.
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  78. #77  
    Forum Sophomore somfooleishfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by random View Post
    Don't think I've had an entire year since I was 12 that I have not thought about killing myself. Probably not even a six-month stretch. These days it's something that idly turns over in my head at least once a week.
    Old habits die hard.

    I'm curious though. Don't you ever just think of it like that? I mean, you're obviously not killing yourself so isn't it a waste of time to dwell on it? There's so much out there on training or retraining your mind's habits. It's essentially what my favorite thing to do is. It's not easy but it's doable. Is this not being considered or are the methods not working? Are the methods being exhausted? Thoughts, just like body movements are controllable and trainable.

    What about methods used in Buddhist psychology or hypnotism for example? Even self hypnotism.
    To be honest, what you seem to be explaining seems neigh impossible to me. Trying to control my subconsious mind is about as fruitless as trying to convince myself that if I try hard enough I will be able to shoot laser beams out of my eyes (haha I attempted this a few times when I was little, sadly it never worked).
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  79. #78  
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    Cognitive-behavioral therapy is the mainstream way to change how you think, and it takes time...but it can do wonders. Mindfulness meditation and breathing meditation can, over time, help you to become calmer, more focused, and less likely to engage in the inner negative dialogue that depressed people usually have.

    The brain is a somewhat plastic organ...
    However, for people with major depressive disorder, there does seem to be some evidence of cellular abnormalities:
    Brain Changes Seen In People With Depression

    The meds are a...meh...semi-solution; really severe depression doesn't usually just magically get 100% better by pill. Pills and therapy work best.
    “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”-George Carlin

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  80. #79  
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    My advice is to live.

    You come into life with nothing. And you leave it with nothing. Meaning eveything is free. The acceptance of death which you have (seemingly) gives freedom. Because you can now pretty much (This is a figure of speech i dont mean it literally) rape, plunder, murder and have fun! I agree there are no morally or ethical reasons to not kill yourself (or others imo). I am a moral nihilist myself.

    However, even if everything is meaningless. It doesent mean you shouldnt use your life for what its worth for selfish reasons. If you however feel you absolutely want to die, then im not gonna talk you out of it because of my view of the world as utterly meaningless. But i dont want to reccomend it either. It is illogically because its a free ride.

    It is the WORLD that deserves to die not you. We good guys only exist to become bad guys because of the laws of nature. Competition and evolution dont see black and white, and such a cold system deserves to be hated and reviled. Being made by a God or by nature, our world is what it is. A horrible unforgiving shithole. Take what you can from life before you die.

    Maybe sell everything you have and own, and move to a random country to a random place and start anew breaking all ties to your past?
    cluelusshusbund and Admin like this.
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  81. #80  
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    Look at what you said about our government and our world.

    I too think government sucks, I too think this world sucks, for the exact same reasons you said. If you kill yourself your brain will leave this world, and what do you leave behind? a bunch of stupid _.ing idiots.


    But people like us are diferent, this world is going to beat our butts, and then say we are crazy.


    You have a responsability to me, and people like me, people like us. People who see the world as we do are starting to come out a bit, you look pretty young, and 20 years from now, people like us might stand up, and stop all these heartless, crazy, stupid people. And even if every one around you is crazy, you are still the same species as them. This current world beats down people like us, it does the same things to me as it does you, but I am just not the kind of person to kill myself.

    I guess its really hard for you, I have friends like you.

    Give it 10 years, maybe things inside you will change, I have seen it happen.

    Maybe you could get away for a while, buy yourself a backpack, tent, lighter, ax, fishing string and hooks, and gun. And just go camping somewere and live off the land. Maybe you could try to get Social security disability, and live in a group home.

    And dont leave me alone with all these crazy people, people like us are rare, and just loosing one of us is a big deal.

    Like I said, I think one day this world will have to change, and you are one of the people who would be with the force to change it.

    And now I am having thoughts that my post will cause you to kill yourself, when the only thing I am trying to do is keep my fellow homo sapien alive, and keep a very rare "normal" person in this world.

    Fight, fight, fight dont let this world kill you. Fight to live, realize that 10 years from now it could be better, realize that one day this world might need (you) to make a world were people like us can live.

    And dont leave me (us) alone with these crazy people. In a few days I will check back to this post, and I hope you are still here. Because if you are not here, I may blame myself and this post for you taking your life. I came here with my homo sapien desire to keep you alive. And I hope your homo sapien respect for me will have you around a bit longer, sounds stupid, but I spent all this time writing this for my desire to keep you around, so should it be so stupid , for your homo sapien desire not to knock me out the game by making me think I caused your death.

    I think just like you, but we have diferent personalitys. I have gone threw a lot of the same things you are going threw now, but I got past them, and since then my life has gotton to a better place.

    And like I said, please dont leave me alone with all these crazy people.

    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    So as not to confuse people before they start reading, I'll put this at the start. Bold typing is text that has been edited (see botum of post)

    I'm contemplating suicide for not so much emotional reasons so much as logic. Even when I'm happy (which is not right now I'll admit) I still feel suicide would be the better option.



    ------Faithlessness-------


    Any smart person knows that no religeon exists, I think this theory is about as truthfull as the theory of gravity, sure it COULD be wrong but I doubt it. Having no faith and beleving that I simply cease of have my conciousness on the world, I am not afraid of death as I will one day die and it won't be any different to dieing now.
    ------Family-------


    I struggle with empathy. I don't give two sh**ts about tragic events that don't directly affect me. I'm dyspraxic and I THINK that has something to do with it. For example if a friends mother died, sure I would try to be there for them and I'd pretend to care, but in reality it doesn't phase me in the slightest.

    I would get over it very quickly were a close family member to die, but then again I don't like (almost hate) most of my family tree.

    My father has asbergers syndrome and is just about the stupidest person I know. He cant listen to what someone is telling him long enough to take in a logical arguement. He is incapable of common sence and has his priorities all wrong. Cleanliness is just about his topmost of priorities. He will interupt me from last minuite cramm study for a university exam to go and tidy my room. It is imperritive above all things that I am in bed by 11:30 (I'm 20 and I still have a bedtime). My father just the other night was shocked to find out that stars are actually other suns and that some of them are even BIGGER than the sun.....

    My mother is a horrible vindictive woman, none of my friends like her. She has ZERO respect for privacy and, for some reason I've never figured out, seems to go out of her way to invade privacy. She is quick to point out peoples flaws in a blunt manner (irony here I'll admit) and she is manipulative to the point that my caution level around her of what I say and do is near schizophrenic. You never know when you will let something slip just gossiping that she will twist and before you know it you have stabbed a friend in the back unintentionally.

    My Nana (thank god she died a few weeks ago) was the clear creation of mum and is everything mum is but worse. My nana will be having a casual conversation with you and then BLAM she will go strait for the jugular. an example: my grandparents had been living in our house and I walked out of the bathroom having just dried my hands on the towel that happened to be there at the time, and just as I walked out she screamed at me "don't you DARE use my towel again! EVER!". Another time my mother offered for my girlfriend to join us for tea and then just as grandad was serving dinner I mentioned that we needed another plate. My nana grew a stern look on her face and said in a discusted voice "how rude to announce another guest after dinner has already started getting served" which put my girlfriend in such a spot she cried.

    My grandad is the grandist stoic you have ever met. His wife just died and his house got destroyed in the christchurch earthquakes and I havn't seen him so much as complain, whimper or cry once.

    My dads brothers and sisters I don't see or care to see.

    My mothers sister is a heavenly refuge of such a crap family tree and is the best aunt you could hope for, her son is equally so and he is possibly my best friend despite being 5 years older than me.

    My dads mother was just strait up strange. My mothers first dinner with dads parents was a strange occasion. During the entire dinner, it was insisted by dads mother that all conversation would be held in french, despite the fact that she was the only one at the table who was able to speak any french at all.

    My grandad on my father's side was senile before I was born.



    -------Lack of faith in humanity-------



    I can't stand the stupidity of MOST people. It's mind numbing to think just how many people there are that have no curiosity, believe what they are told and never question it. All religeon should have been ruled out as myth decades ago. We have enough knowledge of the nature of the universe now to provide all bar proof that religeon is bollucks.
    {paragraph break}

    The economy directly makes people strive for selfish gain and not care about the good of the human race or even the nation they live in. The world should be united by now, in the common interest of progress and technology, rather than fighting over crude oil and worsening global warming. I'm not a smart person, I failed school by a long shot and I am struggling with uni, but I know more about the nature of the universe that we live in than probably 30 of your average persons{was people} put together. I don't have any close relationships (be it friend family or other) with anyone who is what I deem "smart"(not book smart but open minded I guess is a better way of phrasing it).



    --------No interest in being part of a sick society that is compulsory------



    I have zero interest in taking part in society. Why should i spend 40 hour of my week for the rest of my life doing work so that I can earn bits of paper that are deemed to have value by governments. Governments by the way whose laws I was born into and had no say or sway in. From the moment I was born, I had no right to live like a primitive human (food, shelter, land and clothing all require a lot of{was extensive} money). The laws are invented by those in power and are enforced by a false sence of moral obligation to uphold the law and the threat of captivity (prison) which would be hell. Even in New Zealand, which I thought was one of the more civil countrys, there is rape and abuse in prisons on a regular basis. I read an article about "escaping the system" and this guy managed to live on $4000 a year (which still has to come from somewhere) but just to live this close to out of the system he was eating out of trash cans and practising{wrong tense} other unsanitary and undignified habbits.

    quite apart from the moral objection to this. I am quite a lazy person and I would sooner just commit suicide than be forced to work 40 hours labour for my whole life before dieing. I am too "smart" (if you will) to be able to handle 40 ours a week of labour, yet I'm too dumb to succeed in education. I'm trapped, I beleve, by being smart but dyspraxic meaning I'm in

    --------friends--------

    I don't have any friends tha



    ------End-----


    I can't really think of anything else to wrap it up so I'll leave it at that. My reasons for a logical suicide.


    Edit: Indicated in bold, mother to father, also grammar correction
    Edit: Grammar again. Wow, my grammar in this thread is horrible. Indicated in bold again
    Last edited by chad; September 5th, 2011 at 08:10 PM.
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  82. #81  
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    Quote Originally Posted by somfooleishfool View Post
    To be honest, what you seem to be explaining seems neigh impossible to me. Trying to control my subconsious mind is about as fruitless as trying to convince myself that if I try hard enough I will be able to shoot laser beams out of my eyes (haha I attempted this a few times when I was little, sadly it never worked).
    Ha, and that is why it is so fun. If it were easy everyone would do it, but it's not. People spend their whole lives on it. Religion and science attempt to tackle it. It is not fruitless, but rather fruitful. So full that the fruit has yet to be exhausted.

    Also, stupid people are great to practice on. We can learn about ourselves through others (maybe the only way to really). It's the best hobby because it requires no material resources and because you are almost guaranteed to never reach a final destination. I guess you could say it's the same as trying to shoot laser beams out of your eyes, in some ways. Who knows, maybe you can. The beams probably have no problem shooting into them, why not out?
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  83. #82  
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    Well buddy, since you're an adult and you don't like your life, you should change it.

    Change.

    You don't like your family? You don't like living with them?
    Do you care if you never see them anymore?
    No?


    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Maybe you could get away for a while, buy yourself a backpack, tent, lighter, ax, fishing string and hooks, and gun. And just go camping somewere and live off the land.
    Forget society, forget the government, forget all these artificial restraints you grew up with.

    The only laws you will abide by are the laws of nature. If you change later, you will be alive and ready to change again.



    I don't care particularly about you, but I'd like to see this mentality more often. I wish this change to happen, so I'm being active about it.
    If you're reading this, thank you for your attention.
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  84. #83  
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    Suicide is a last resort escape method when one feels trapped.

    I'll be honest I barely even skimmed your main post. My advice to you is to, in a way, commit suicide - quit your job, quit your life, move away, forget your family, cut off all of your connections, and throw away anything that would ever remind you of it - I wouldn't even bother selling the crap. Just get a new life, don't take the one you have because your in a crap mood about how your life is at the moment. In essence I agree with the post above me I suppose. (though i don't know if going man vs wild is always the best way, unless of course living in nature interests you as much as it does i)

    The only one who decides if you like your life or not is you.
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    I was thinking more like this: UrbanFreeflow.com - Parkour - New David Belle Interview - YouTube
    I was a scrawny little wimp, very shy and lacking confidence. This is not just a physical discipline, it's also a mental discipline.
    There are people all over the world who practice this, and no, they rarely break any bones or have knee injuries (if trained right)
    Choose Not To Fall - YouTube
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  86. #85  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkourOpenedMyEyes View Post
    I was thinking more like this: UrbanFreeflow.com - Parkour - New David Belle Interview - YouTube
    I was a scrawny little wimp, very shy and lacking confidence. This is not just a physical discipline, it's also a mental discipline.
    There are people all over the world who practice this, and no, they rarely break any bones or have knee injuries (if trained right)
    Choose Not To Fall - YouTube
    Plus, you can get Hollywood stunt jobs.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  87. #86  
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    If you are going to commit suicide, then don't involve anyone else. Be a man (or woman) and do it on your own. Don't jump in front of cars, trucks or trains. Don't jump off a building -- you might hurt someone else. If you have relatives or friends that really care about you, you are going to hurt them. If you have people that depend on you then you are REALLY going to hurt/disappoint them.

    Instead of suicide, why don't you just drop out of life, go somewhere else, and devote the rest of your life to helping others -- it's the next best thing to standing firm and dealing with your current life.

    Damn, you live in New Zealand. I'd love to live in New Zealand.
    Last edited by PumaMan; September 14th, 2011 at 07:19 PM.
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  88. #87  
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    Dont do it mate.we like your input here..all the best pal
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    There are some great tips here especially about the need to see a doctor as sometimes one simple medication can make all the difference.

    Otherwise, once I read something to the effect that changing our lives depends on the books we read and the people we meet / connect with. Maybe you should read some new books, or connect with some new people.

    I would suggest the Bible, since I credit my faith with getting me through tough times. However, if you are not up for that, I just recently read a book that might appeal to you.

    It is about a guy that was really struggling as teenager in feudal Japan. He had some major interpersonal problems that were so bad the people in his village were hunting for him in mobs to take him out.

    The book is about how he transformed his life to change from a struggling teenager, to someone who to this day is regarded as one of the greatest warriors in history. He also became an accomplished writer and artist during his journey. His philosophy is still studied in business schools in Japan.

    I am trying to learn from this guy's life myself.

    The book is called: "Musashi" by Eiji Yoshikawa

    I don't know much about dyspraxia. However, from Wikipedia, it seems that there have been some really brilliant people in society who had this. I would not be surprised if you have an amazing talent like Musashi had, that you cannot see right now. You will find if you seek it.
    Last edited by dedo; September 15th, 2011 at 08:57 PM.
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  90. #89  
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    Just had an experience with a suicidal friend that had to be one of the most scary moments of my life, and I'm not even the one suffering. I think she's pulling through now, and I am so happy! I hope you are still doing well, friend.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  91. #90  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Just had an experience with a suicidal friend that had to be one of the most scary moments of my life, and I'm not even the one suffering. I think she's pulling through now, and I am so happy! I hope you are still doing well, friend.
    I have an online friend who...volunteered to talk me out of suicide, as I was thinking about it. I took him up on this...and said it was mutual. Has been. Both of us hurt a lot...and talking him out of it last time was...terrifically wrenching.
    I felt like I was lovingly strapping him into a torture device. Not frightening, very sad. Wonder if there's a commonality of experience to this...

    I hope the OP's doing alright-I'm rather afraid he's not.
    “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”-George Carlin

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  92. #91  
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    I made a vow to commit suicide, not before I do something for humanity first.
    My mind is nothing it does nothing, suicide to me is basically choosing when to die. That and I might have to hook up my raw brain to a computer, because I will not die until I do so.


    Hmm, suicide.. choosing when to die.. a new concept for you guys to think about.
    With bravery and recognition that we are harbingers of our destiny and with a paragon of virtue.
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  93. #92  
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    Dear Fool,

    I am actually a psych professional, Psych nursing supervisor at a major Psych hospital. Your are depressed. Depression is the common cold of psychiatry. That means we see a lot of it. Also, like the common cold, it is self limiting. If you stay alive you will get better. The catch is "if you stay alive". You can just wait it out. But depression hurts. It is not a pleasant way to live. So do something about it!

    First recommendation : Get professional help.

    Second recommendation : Avoid all intoxicants, particularly alcohol. Drinking just gives you another problem.

    Third recommendation : Stick to your routine. Sleep when you are supposed to sleep. Work when you are supposed to work. Eat when you are supposed to eat. Have a set schedule of exercise and follow it. When you feel that you don't want to get up and do what you are supposed to do is when you most need to do it.

    Fourth recommendation: If you are put on antidepressent medication, use it. But don't expect it to work miracles. Anti depressents don't cure depression in the same way that an anti biotic kills infection or surgery fixes a problem. Anti depressents mask the symptoms of depression until the depression goes away. Depressions typicly last 18 months to 2 years but may go on twice as long.

    Fifth recommendation : Depression is psychological pain. Pain is a symtom of something being wrong. If your family is a source of your pain, remove your self from them. Even if you need financially to live in the same place you can get psychological distance by focusing you life outside your family, in work, sports, education, hobbies, etc. If you are your own source of pain, ie you don't care much for the person you are, then change. You are a tool in your own hands. If you are dull, sharpen yourself. Make yourself a fit tool for the purpose you want to be put to.

    Sixth recommendation : Get over yourself. Chances are that you are not a world shaker. You very likely are not destined to be the greatest anything, even if you get your shit together. That's OK. The woods would be silent if only those birds who sang best , sang at all. There is plenty of work for all people of good will. Humanity needs all of us. There will most likely always be someone stronger, tougher, smarter, prettier or more talanted. It does not matter, there is plenty of work for you.

    Seventh recomendation: (Gosh I did not think I would get this far.) Be part of the solution, not part of the problem . Try to have a positve impact on the world. If you just make one person's life better than it would otherwise have been that is positive impact. To give an example: I am a fairly good cook. My first couple jobs were in upscale restauants. I enjoyed the work and learning the tricks of the trade. But it occured to me that if every classy eatery in the world dried up tomorrow it would be only a minor incovenience. I knew I wanted to do something more important with my life.

    Final recommendation: Don't be too quick to write off religion. It is a valuable source of strength for many people and helps them attain heights they might never have reached without it. To quote Scott Peck, " A funny thing happens when people seek truth, some times they find it."
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  94. #93  
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    Yeah Fool hes a Psych professional, listen to him! good things can happen, positive things, plus, don't you want more! everyone wants more!
    Happyness!! Yeah! you want it dont ya!! listen to him he can make u happy!!!

    Total sarcasm.. Forget the meaning of happiness, and sadness, forget positive and negative, and just live a nutrual life, and what ever happenes from there just has no meaning, it just is what it is.
    With bravery and recognition that we are harbingers of our destiny and with a paragon of virtue.
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  95. #94  
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    Good advice, that...

    I got depressed at 10, didn't really get better until I was hospitalized around my 17th birthday...a maximum 4 years of being suicidally-ideating level-depressed sounds optimistic...

    I thought everyone had intrusive repetitive thoughts of every tiny screwup they'd ever made, accompanied by feelings of utter worthlessness and words to the same effect. I used to physically wince at them, they were overwhelmingly loud.
    “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”-George Carlin

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  96. #95  
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    In reality, I would say that if you want a reason to live, it would be to help other people in your situation. Write a book or something. Other suicidally depressed people need to know they're not alone, and hearing the details from another authentic want-to-be suicidal person would let them know they're not being preached to. You seem to be really good at assembling your ideas and that's all it takes to write a book. Sure you don't have a psych degree, but I think people are getting tired of reading books by psychs.

    Maybe they'll write back. You know, a lot of really hot women are suicidal. You might get the best of both parts of a relationship, where she both A) Understands you better than anyone else (due to shared experience), and B) - Is totally hot. Your understanding of her guarantees she'll stay.


    Quote Originally Posted by somefoolishfool
    ------Family-------


    I struggle with empathy. I don't give two sh**ts about tragic events that don't directly affect me. I'm dyspraxic and I THINK that has something to do with it. For example if a friends mother died, sure I would try to be there for them and I'd pretend to care, but in reality it doesn't phase me in the slightest.

    I would get over it very quickly were a close family member to die, but then again I don't like (almost hate) most of my family tree.

    My father has asbergers syndrome and is just about the stupidest person I know. He cant listen to what someone is telling him long enough to take in a logical arguement. He is incapable of common sence and has his priorities all wrong. Cleanliness is just about his topmost of priorities. He will interupt me from last minuite cramm study for a university exam to go and tidy my room. It is imperritive above all things that I am in bed by 11:30 (I'm 20 and I still have a bedtime). My father just the other night was shocked to find out that stars are actually other suns and that some of them are even BIGGER than the sun.....

    My mother is a horrible vindictive woman, none of my friends like her. She has ZERO respect for privacy and, for some reason I've never figured out, seems to go out of her way to invade privacy. She is quick to point out peoples flaws in a blunt manner (irony here I'll admit) and she is manipulative to the point that my caution level around her of what I say and do is near schizophrenic. You never know when you will let something slip just gossiping that she will twist and before you know it you have stabbed a friend in the back unintentionally.
    It sounds like you've never had a relationship worth maintaining. Your psycho parents scare anyone away because they want themselves to remain your only option. They know they're difficult to deal with and that you'd never choose to be close to them of your own free will. Forcing someone to stay close to them is the only hope they have of connecting with other human beings. It's sort of like rape without all the sex.

    I bet that whenever you try to leave them behind they throw guilt at you, by reminding you just how destitute they would be if you don't stick around and keep them company. After a while you just feel so burdened by their impending loss that you lose interest in your job, or whatever mechanism you are pursuing. (So in reality your problem is that yes, you do have empathy, but you're in a situation that calls for you to convince yourself that you don't in order to cope with the emotional stress. If you had no empathy, you'd move out, get a restraining order, and be done with it. - Another reason you should write a book.)

    The worst part is you can't tell where their disability ends and the evil begins, so it's hard to know when to get angry or retaliate. However, obviously the problem does not rest 100% with their disability. Odds are they are also despicable people too.

    My Nana (thank god she died a few weeks ago) was the clear creation of mum and is everything mum is but worse. My nana will be having a casual conversation with you and then BLAM she will go strait for the jugular. an example: my grandparents had been living in our house and I walked out of the bathroom having just dried my hands on the towel that happened to be there at the time, and just as I walked out she screamed at me "don't you DARE use my towel again! EVER!". Another time my mother offered for my girlfriend to join us for tea and then just as grandad was serving dinner I mentioned that we needed another plate. My nana grew a stern look on her face and said in a discusted voice "how rude to announce another guest after dinner has already started getting served" which put my girlfriend in such a spot she cried.
    It sounds like Nana was adapting to her situation the only way she could think of, by becoming the monster to be safe from the monster.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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  97. #96  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    Spam!

    --my message is too short--
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  98. #97  
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    This just in, state of USA with lowest suicide rate: New Jersey. Not what one would expect, agreed? City with highest rate, San Francisco, arguably one of most beautiful in USA. Evidently, city is perceived to be full of more promise than it actually offers- perhaps life in New Jersey is close enough to death that additional effort is not seen as being indicated.

    Old white guys are at highest risk and not surprisingly alcohol increases risk for all age and gender groups studied.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
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  99. #98  
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    Code:
    On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. ~Chuck Palahniuk
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  100. #99  
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    What would be the number one fear for those attempting suicide?

    1. Failure to succeed at killing yourself
    2. No one will care if successful
    3. What others will think if successful
    4. Family suffers, successful or not
    5. Chickening out at the last minute
    6. Hell awaits the successful
    7. There's no afterlife
    8. Did it for nothing

    There's probably more but my opinion is number 1. If life was terrible before the attempt then what happens after you don't succeed, does it become worse?
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  101. #100  
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    Let us assume this much, that if one is tempted to take one's life, it is because they have identified deficiencies in said life.

    Would it not make more sense to list these deficiencies, as accurately as possible, and address them individually?

    Say one has, for example, decided he is too indifferent to the plight of others and wishes to address this.

    Perhaps setting an allowance of time or money each week to a local charitable cause, food bank, homeless shelter, etc. would prove instructive and salubrious- particularly time served, as it would presumably bring one into contact with persons who have more empathy for fellow human beings.

    By doing noble deeds one can become noble- in fact, if there is another way to achieve this result, Prince would be glad to have it brought to his attention, best regards as ever, dotcomrades.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
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