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Thread: Mein kampf

  1. #1 Mein kampf 
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    I had a dream in which i enroll in a community. The community contains as usual many men, women and children. On a particular day, a competition is held for taking pictures of oneself showcasing acting abilities to win prize. Many give their pictures so do i. And i am said to be selected. So the community boards buses for the prize trip. Many christian nuns are also seen sitting in the bus. The buses end up into taking the community to a unknown prison. But the community still shows a lot of joyous spirits. The prison has many underground passages, vaults just as seen in pc game 'fallout' like a dream hell. After many months the community is allowed to move out to see the sun over a fifty feet mountain cliff. I had to jump down the mountain to run away not from the prison guards but from the psychotic community itself. I reached home by walking and community even release themselves. But they never reach me till I contact them. And then i wake up. I think about the society which is a prison as well.


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  3. #2 Re: Mein kampf 
    Forum Ph.D. Leszek Luchowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginger
    I think about the society which is a prison as well.
    If society is a prison, how do you imagine freedom? A lonely life in a universe with no other people? That's hard even to imagine, let alone survive. Impossible to enjoy. Yes every particular society has its drawbacks, but almost any society is better than no society at all.

    The society is an environment without which the human individual cannot develop or exist. Without society, you would never have learned to speak, or to think like a human. Or to rebel. Or to desire freedom. Freedom to do what? To run from one unpopulated hill to another? What for? To eat either a mango or a banana (supposing you are in some tropical paradise with abundant food)? Is that all? With no friends, no loved ones, no workmates, no competitors or passers-by, what kind of life would that be?

    Quote Originally Posted by G.K.Chesterton
    You may, if you like, free a tiger from his bars; but do not free him from his stripes. Do not free a camel of the burden of his hump: you may be freeing him from being a camel.
    And by the way - why did you choose that particular title for your post?


    Leszek. Pronounced [LEH-sheck]. The wondering Slav.
    History teaches us that we don't learn from history.
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  4. #3 Re: Mein kampf 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leszek Luchowski
    Quote Originally Posted by ginger
    I think about the society which is a prison as well.
    If society is a prison, how do you imagine freedom? A lonely life in a universe with no other people? That's hard even to imagine, let alone survive. Impossible to enjoy. Yes every particular society has its drawbacks, but almost any society is better than no society at all.

    The society is an environment without which the human individual cannot develop or exist. Without society, you would never have learned to speak, or to think like a human. Or to rebel. Or to desire freedom. Freedom to do what? To run from one unpopulated hill to another? What for? To eat either a mango or a banana (supposing you are in some tropical paradise with abundant food)? Is that all? With no friends, no loved ones, no workmates, no competitors or passers-by, what kind of life would that be?

    Quote Originally Posted by G.K.Chesterton
    You may, if you like, free a tiger from his bars; but do not free him from his stripes. Do not free a camel of the burden of his hump: you may be freeing him from being a camel.
    And by the way - why did you choose that particular title for your post?
    I disagree. I believe that at some point any and all species will go extinct and therefore anything we do as individuals or collectively as a society is ultimately trivial and amounts to nothing. I.e., the past does not matter, and at some point all societies will be in the past without effect on the present or future.

    Consider the following example: a dinosaur that existed two-hundred million years ago is nearly an apex predator in throughout its range. There has been a large drought that has caused prey to rarely be captured or even seen sight of. After a difficult search, the dinosaur finally manages to capture a herbivore and successfully kill it. As it's about to feed, the apex predator in the range has come to usurp the dinosaur's kill. The dinosaur can either choose to stay and defend its meal (which it needs), or run and perhaps starve to death.

    Such a decision may have been important to the dinosaur's survival at that point in time, but it certainly has no effect in the future whatsoever (and, in the long run, the future is all that really matters).
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  5. #4 Re: Mein kampf 
    Forum Ph.D. Leszek Luchowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellatha
    (and, in the long run, the future is all that really matters).
    From a materialistic point of view, the future, ultimately, is cold iron. That's not really exciting. Nothing you can do, in a society or without it, can change that. And if you could change it, say, to lukewarm cobalt, would you bother?

    All that really matters is life and what we fill it with while we're there. Without other people (or other sentient and social beings) to relate to, there isn't much filling stuff to go by.

    The stubborn individualist that I am, I can't believe I am defending society...
    Leszek. Pronounced [LEH-sheck]. The wondering Slav.
    History teaches us that we don't learn from history.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    anything we do as individuals or collectively as a society is ultimately trivial and amounts to nothing
    If thats the case you might think of going back to the wilderness and live like a caveman, avoid toilet paper, hot water at he turn of a knob, the internet, and barely survive on grubs with animal skins, since nothing past generations of humans have leaned and build amounts to anything.

    I am glad that the various people that made toilet paper possible, air conditioning, agriculture, electricity and so on didnt say theres no point in doing anything since in 60 trillion years no one will care. Many people do care or benefit in the short and medium turn.

    And if humans colonize the solar system, the descendants of humans (regardless of form, genetic or cybernetic) can potentially prosper for billions of years, and if a means is found to create and/or cross into another universe they could potentially exist beyond the present state of our universe.


    I think about the society which is a prison as well.
    I realize that there are more civilized societies where prisons are more humane and less repressive, but the prisons where I am from dont allow you to walk out when ever you want. On the other hand, most people that arent in prison but just in "society", can escape society(relatively speaking, but it should be enough) travel to an isolated place in the wilderness where you can live like a caveman or robinson crusoe without society.
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  7. #6 Re: Mein kampf 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leszek Luchowski
    From a materialistic point of view, the future, ultimately, is cold iron. That's not really exciting. Nothing you can do, in a society or without it, can change that. And if you could change it, say, to lukewarm cobalt, would you bother?
    Whether something is exciting or not does not change whether it's true or not. The fact is that a lot of great minds were driven to work hard for the sake of society without ever being told that their work would eventually be completely forgotten along with them. I believe that it's okay to work hard and dedicate one's self to a particular goal, but as long as they understand the eventual consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leszek Luchowski
    All that really matters is life and what we fill it with while we're there. Without other people (or other sentient and social beings) to relate to, there isn't much filling stuff to go by.
    I think that we all, at a deep enough level, want to ultimately attain happiness. Happiness depends on the person in question. For me, that means finding a measure of peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leszek Luchowski
    The stubborn individualist that I am, I can't believe I am defending society...
    Well I'm not necessarily attacking society. I'm simply stating the truth into the ultimate matter of things: the human race will eventually go extinct and all of its accomplishments forgotten.
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  8. #7 Re: Mein kampf 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    I've always wanted to try dream interpretation*, so here goes:

    a competition is held for taking pictures of oneself showcasing acting abilities...The importance of this is well known to atheists, particularly in parts of the world where to admit one's anti-theism may not be conducive to one's wellbeing.

    Many christian nuns are also seen sitting in the bus. The buses end up into taking the community to a unknown prison. ....The bus is Christianity in this case and the prison, well, I don't think that requires much imagination since it is obvious. A prisoner to a religion with a life sentence of servitude to an invisible sky fairy perhaps?

    community still shows a lot of joyous spirits. The prison has many underground passages, vaults just as seen in pc game 'fallout' like a dream hell...... Many passages is a possible metaphor representing the existence of several theistic religions, each with their own agenda but all are a living hell

    After many months the community is allowed to move out to see the sun over a fifty feet mountain cliff. .... This is tough but I think the dreamer is saying that by seeing the light (not living a lie) then one can make the leap to atheism.

    I had to jump down the mountain to run away not from the prison guards but from the psychotic community itself. The dreamer has made the leap and is treated like a run away slave. The psychotic community is her fellow parishioners, citizens, friends and neighbors who act this way because they are under control (mentally) by the church who has said enough and need say no more(indoctrination).

    I reached home by walking and community even release themselves. But they never reach me till I contact them. And then i wake up .... For the dreamer the path to atheism was easy. However the community cannot do it on their own, and will require the wisdom of the dreamer in order to convert to atheism. The community releasing themselves was hard but I think it refers to acceptance of atheists in Christian culture but as long as they remain quiet. IOW atheists need to make noise or be prepared to adjust to a religious environment.

    I think about the society which is a prison as well. ....Atheists live in what is for them a prison of sorts, abiding by the laws of a non-secular world, toeing the line in order to live as normal as one can.

    * This is not my dream and any interpretations are not necessarily those of the interpreter. Although they might be
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