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Thread: Confidence and joy

  1. #1 Confidence and joy 
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    If we were ll to be confident in ourselves then we could achieve so much more with our time we spend. The more youaccept things that are beyond your control the more you will see that it is not that bad for you - the more you try to control things the more you will be emotionally hurt when you see them fall apart or not reach the desired reaction.

    To boost your confidence you need to go with the flow. When you do something think of the worst case scenari first, make it into a habit, and you will see either that you are emotinally prepared for this, or, that things are not as bad as they could be. Look at the happiest people around you, they all seem to be busy doing things, yes? Look at the deep people, are they happy, are they positive? Do they think about why? Wel, then if you think why also do not ressit theway things are, rather explain them, do not seek to change the world around you, seek to change yourself, as if you change one thing there are so many other things to change. So, seek to accept and cooperate with the world around you, look for the worst and be surprised with the reality. Think of all those positive speakers, they always talk about how bad hthings are, but, they always have a way of accepting and explaining it, honestly.

    The more you seek to be special the more you will judge others trying to explain the reality for them. Let them explain the reality to you! If you accept the popular opinions then you will flow with them. This is the path of least resistance for you and you will have no emotional problems that will make you unhappy.

    Who is the happiest people? Think of people at a party, they all are flowing with the people they feel comfortable with, flowing witht the music they like, flowing with the ability to be themselves and indulge in listening to others as they are now open minded and recieving the atmosphere.

    Think of hard workers, do they smile a lot? They smile because they are not resisiting the flow of the work or bosses demands. Think of rebels in school, they are not ressiting their impulses and therefor are happier, yes?

    Resistance is fear based and therefore is a survival instinct and primal. You will fear as long as you do not accept things. Of course as soon as you accept things youwill be more able and therefor more confident.

    Be carfeul what you choose to accept. Accept it by reasning it out, do nt fear the truth or the popular 'trendy' opionions.


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  3. #2 Re: Confidence and joy 
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    If we were ll to be confident in ourselves then we could achieve so much more with our time we spend. The more youaccept things that are beyond your control the more you will see that it is not that bad for you - the more you try to control things the more you will be emotionally hurt when you see them fall apart or not reach the desired reaction.
    Yet arguably all of the major advances in the human condition arose out of actions by individuals who would not accept that certain things were betond their control, even when exerience and the rest of the world told them they were. They refused to accept the status quo.

    Go not gentle into that good night,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    To boost your confidence you need to go with the flow.
    Au contraire. If, after proper consideration, you believe a particular path is the right one - ethically, practically, emotionally, financially - then take that path. Ignore the jibes, ignore the negative comments, resist the flow. Be your own person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    Look at the happiest people around you, they all seem to be busy doing things, yes?
    I see many unhappy people doing things as a form of displacement activity.
    I see happy people doing very little, having come to accomodation with the way the world works and their place in it.
    I think your observation is to simple and simplistic to have value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    Look at the deep people, are they happy, are they positive?
    Some of them are; many of them are intensely unhappy, having thought deeply about the human condition. Can you be happy that in the time it takes you to read this post ten children will have died from starvation somewhere on the planet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    ......do not ressit theway things are, rather explain them, do not seek to change the world around you, seek to change yourself, as if you change one thing there are so many other things to change. So, seek to accept and cooperate with the world around you, look for the worst and be surprised with the reality.
    I don't find the deaths of those children acceptable. If I choose to do nothing about them then their blood is on my hands, yet this is what you advocate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    Think of all those positive speakers, they always talk about how bad hthings are, .
    This, in my experience, is untrue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    The more you seek to be special the more you will judge others trying to explain the reality for them. Let them explain the reality to you! If you accept the popular opinions then you will flow with them. This is the path of least resistance for you and you will have no emotional problems that will make you unhappy.
    I am sure this was the view taken by the townsfolk living next to Treblinka and Dachau and Belsen-Belsen.
    I'm surprised you don't have a link to a website that sells buckets of sand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    Who is the happiest people? Think of people at a party, they all are flowing with the people they feel comfortable with, flowing witht the music they like, flowing with the ability to be themselves and indulge in listening to others as they are now open minded and recieving the atmosphere.
    No. They are just pissed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    Think of hard workers, do they smile a lot? They smile because they are not resisiting the flow of the work or bosses demands.
    I work hard, but I dictate the flow of work and negotiate the demands of my boss. I am also happy in my work, not because I go with the flow, but because I set the flow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    Think of rebels in school, they are not ressiting their impulses and therefor are happier, yes?.
    Every rebel I new was the unhappiest and most unfulfilled of men.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    Resistance is fear based and therefore is a survival instinct and primal. You will fear as long as you do not accept things. Of course as soon as you accept things youwill be more able and therefor more confident.
    Resistance is hope based. Resistance asserts that we can make things better. Resistance is what promotes change. Resistance is good.

    I choose to resist. I choose to fight for what is right. I choose to reject the easy path of accepting the status quo. I choose to strive to reach my potential. I reject your ideas.



    Welcome to the forum. Please note that I am attacking your ideas and not you.


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  4. #3  
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    Ok, to start again, what is the base human emotion? We are here to survive, and that means it is alerting us to dangers, which means it must be fear?
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    Ok, to start again, what is the base human emotion? We are here to survive, and that means it is alerting us to dangers, which means it must be fear?
    We are here to reproduce, so the base human emotion is sexual attraction.
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  6. #5  
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    Charlatan, I find it difficult to see your actual argument here. Acceptance of the status quo = confidence = happiness? Sounds like something I'd hear from a cult at an airport. For this reason, I think it's more likely that your presentation does not do your argument justice. Can you break down your actual argument? I don't mean to be overly critical, but if you can't break down your argument then you don't really have one. (It doesn't have to include an equal sign lol) Based on my basic understanding of your argument, as shown above, I would largely agree with Ophiolite's response. Individuals grow, societies change, populations evolve. It's not necessarily inherently better or worse, but it is different. And from looking at our history, I'd find it more reasonable to argue that resistance is, in fact, a good thing. It doesn't make much sense to argue that humans have been or would be better off just "accepting." As far as your point about people resisting our of fear, you're saying that we fear the status quo... but empirically speaking people generally fear change much more often. Feel free to provide examples to the contrary here.

    As a side note, as far as your comments on "the base human emotion" and "we are here to.." I would advise to avoid such sweeping statements or oversimplifications. For one, I would argue we cannot say that we are here TO do anything. This implies a purpose about which we simply cannot claim to know. Furthermore, as an Anthropologist, I find it problematic to claim that there is one "base human emotion" or one purpose of any kind. Empirically speaking, we tend to care a lot about both survival and reproduction - they do go together well. =)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    We are here to reproduce, so the base human emotion is sexual attraction.
    We are here because we reproduce. A chemical reaction that spawns numerous others, including some that spawn even more. Eventually the only ones left will be the ones that spawned more, not because they are 'right' but simply because they still 'are'. But the ones that reproduced had to survive long enough to do it. So survival comes first. Fear as the basic human emotion doesn't sit well with me, though. I think fear is more of a contrast of an emotion. Happiness maybe, or confidence if that is an emotion, or whatever emotion it is tied to. Belief, faith? Ignorance is bliss seems it could somehow be connected.

    Those who are fearful are the ones who are not resisting.

    I think what you are trying to say has good intentions, but you are a little hazy on the exact details. I have been through it personally, and I know that the true key to happiness lies inside yourself and ONLY there; external events will NEVER fix what troubles you, just as money can't buy happiness. Not everyone is troubled, however. Perhaps in the pursuit of happiness it is helpful to drop external issues to figure out yourself, but once that is accomplished external issues shouldn't still be shunned. I personally am so enamored with the happiness I have found within myself that I no longer see any reason to live other than to spread happiness.

    Your ideas are a little confused but your intentions are golden. You say not to try to change the world around you but here you are trying to change the world around you.
    I prefer to use my right brain to study the universe rather than my left brain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porphyrogenita
    As a side note, as far as your comments on "the base human emotion" and "we are here to.." I would advise to avoid such sweeping statements or oversimplifications. For one, I would argue we cannot say that we are here TO do anything. This implies a purpose about which we simply cannot claim to know. Furthermore, as an Anthropologist, I find it problematic to claim that there is one "base human emotion" or one purpose of any kind. Empirically speaking, we tend to care a lot about both survival and reproduction - they do go together well. =)
    1) it is commonly agreed by scientists that we are here to reproduce.

    2) if the majority of humans didn't have the compulsery need to reproduce, we wouldn't be around.

    3) sure the figures between those who have compulseary needs, may vary in different countries and regions, due to culture.

    4) "I would argue we cannot say that we are here TO do anything." I'm suprised that you are an antropologist who makes such statements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HexHammer
    Quote Originally Posted by Porphyrogenita
    As a side note, as far as your comments on "the base human emotion" and "we are here to.." I would advise to avoid such sweeping statements or oversimplifications. For one, I would argue we cannot say that we are here TO do anything. This implies a purpose about which we simply cannot claim to know. Furthermore, as an Anthropologist, I find it problematic to claim that there is one "base human emotion" or one purpose of any kind. Empirically speaking, we tend to care a lot about both survival and reproduction - they do go together well. =)
    1) it is commonly agreed by scientists that we are here to reproduce.

    2) if the majority of humans didn't have the compulsery need to reproduce, we wouldn't be around.

    3) sure the figures between those who have compulseary needs, may vary in different countries and regions, due to culture.

    4) "I would argue we cannot say that we are here TO do anything." I'm suprised that you are an antropologist who makes such statements.
    Your first point doesn't serve any purpose other than to give an answer for those who want a definitive answer. In actuality, it could be anything. Maybe, most would agree that we are here to stare at the sun until our pupils shrink to the size of pinholes. Maybe, most would agree that we are here to kill each other in a grand battle royale.

    As to your fourth, I agree with Porphyrogenita, who is not required to hold a definitive view of human existence as an Anthropologist. The idea of a purpose, whether it's impersonal or not, is comforting to the masses. "There must be meaning to life! Why are we here?" The masses hate undefined answers like, "There is no purpose," or, "We are not here to do anything in particular, at all, whatsoever."

    Anyway, your second statement is unnecessary. Its an obvious fact. On top of that, it could also be replaced by ridiculous claims that are equally true. If the majority of humans didn't feel the need to eat, we may not be around. If the majority of humans felt compelled to kill themselves by drinking water until salts in the blood were diluted to deadly levels, we wouldn't be around. If the majority of humans felt the need to fill an enema bag with liquor and insert it into their colons, we wouldn't be around. There are plenty of reasons we wouldn't be around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDr.Spo
    Your first point doesn't serve any purpose other than to give an answer for those who want a definitive answer. In actuality, it could be anything. Maybe, most would agree that we are here to stare at the sun until our pupils shrink to the size of pinholes. Maybe, most would agree that we are here to kill each other in a grand battle royale.

    As to your fourth, I agree with Porphyrogenita, who is not required to hold a definitive view of human existence as an Anthropologist. The idea of a purpose, whether it's impersonal or not, is comforting to the masses. "There must be meaning to life! Why are we here?" The masses hate undefined answers like, "There is no purpose," or, "We are not here to do anything in particular, at all, whatsoever."

    Anyway, your second statement is unnecessary. Its an obvious fact. On top of that, it could also be replaced by ridiculous claims that are equally true. If the majority of humans didn't feel the need to eat, we may not be around. If the majority of humans felt compelled to kill themselves by drinking water until salts in the blood were diluted to deadly levels, we wouldn't be around. If the majority of humans felt the need to fill an enema bag with liquor and insert it into their colons, we wouldn't be around. There are plenty of reasons we wouldn't be around.
    I really hope you are kidding.
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  11. #10  
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    There are facts..and there are opinions. This thread has been contaminated by conjecture from the start. It has been shown that fear is an evolutionarily ancient, highly conserved trait shared by likely all and at least most vertebrates (even zebra fish have opiod receptors) and even some invertebrates such as the octopus (not sure about inverts..haven't studied them)..any animal that has endogenous opioids and receptors for such chemicals and experiences an amygdular response to fear will likely experience emotions similar to those we have named "fear", "pain" and "happiness". Fear is not just "the basic HUMAN emotion"..fear is a basic animal emotion.

    Dr. Spo..I highly doubt that staring into the sun until one goes blind provides any sort of adaptive advantage that would aid in the survival of Homo sapiens, so your point is lost on me...

    People need to forget about words such as "meaning" or "purpose". Prove to me that those words have any meaning or purpose...you can't. That is because these abstract human constructions are vague and arbitrary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    There are facts..and there are opinions. This thread has been contaminated by conjecture from the start. It has been shown that fear is an evolutionarily ancient, highly conserved trait shared by likely all and at least most vertebrates (even zebra fish have opiod receptors) and even some invertebrates such as the octopus (not sure about inverts..haven't studied them)..any animal that has endogenous opioids and receptors for such chemicals and experiences an amygdular response to fear will likely experience emotions similar to those we have named "fear", "pain" and "happiness". Fear is not just "the basic HUMAN emotion"..fear is a basic animal emotion.

    Dr. Spo..I highly doubt that staring into the sun until one goes blind provides any sort of adaptive advantage that would aid in the survival of Homo sapiens, so your point is lost on me...

    People need to forget about words such as "meaning" or "purpose". Prove to me that those words have any meaning or purpose...you can't. That is because these abstract human constructions are vague and arbitrary.
    Very well put, if I may say.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    fear is a basic animal emotion
    On the other hand, we also have reward mechanisms. So the normal state of humans/animals fluctuates between these, not arriving at joy and staying there. I actually believe that when brains are deprived of an emotion, contrary thoughts work to acquire it. This goes beyond homeostasis - the potentials need exercise. It means that if you have cake every day, you'll begin to dwell on its negative qualities.

    Insight that one's thoughts are bound to regulate emotions may be more or less rewarding, depending on stimuli. :?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  14. #13  
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    On the other hand, we also have reward mechanisms
    Did you read my post in its entirety?
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    Yeah, I may have been hanging out with my friend Jack D....or was it S. Jerry?...maybe Evan W.?...or my favorite band Everclear a bit too much? Hahaha . As you can see, I have forgotten, but to make my point clear, I apologize for the lack of intellectual contribution in my last post.

    The request to discard certain words for their lack of objectivity is a bit of a stretch. That would spiral into "Everything we think we know as high-functioning beings is based off of a subjective and utterly meaningless human construct, language." That fits more with as a discussion in Philosophy, unless you were just trying to convey that you find those words annoying, which I can completely sympathize with.

    Fear of death drives us to preserve, but that is as much merit as I can apply to fear without leaving the basic. Yet, it does sweep across all animals, which is something to be said for its importance. I do like Pong's idea though. It makes sense that the brain would feel emotionally starved when the contrast between what's good and what's bad is not clear or virtually does not exist.

    Could this imply that whatever driving force, or emotion, underlies human success has a working counterpart looking for human failure?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler
    On the other hand, we also have reward mechanisms
    Did you read my post in its entirety?
    Yes, and I agree with every word of it. I underlined joy's (and other emotions') necessarily fickle nature, as emotions must reflect the unsettled difference between stimuli and volition. Charlatan had advised people to cultivate passive satiation, i.e. remove our minds from the endless feedback loops and internal instabilities that drive us. I don't believe that a healthy prescription for any organism.

    I'm especially pissed off about drug addicts who were raised to believe their purpose in life is to be happy.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    I'm especially pissed off about drug addicts who were raised to believe their purpose in life is to be happy.
    Why exactly are you pissed off about that group?

    I mean, I have an idea, but I figure it's best not to assume.
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    Thanks. I'm pissed off at parents, advertisers, and I guess the ignoble consensus of liberal societies, for portraying happiness as the greatest good in life.

    What happens when a person with this belief shoots up? They say it's like kissing God. So the fathomless bliss felt when high more than offsets any pains suffered in getting the next fix. There's no error in a drug addict's value judgment. If what society says is true.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    Well, a general form of that thought is a basic fact of life. To achieve your happiness, you must suffer the preceding pain. It's a matter of what can be tolerated.

    A drug addict thoroughly enjoys being high all the time, tolerates suffering the pain to the next fix, tolerates barely holding a minimum wage job and tolerates probably living in some run-down apartment or living in his/her parents' house. I don't mean to generalize all drug addicts this way but majority is majority.

    An equally applicable analogy could be constructed for a college graduate. In order to achieve the happiness of graduating and getting a good job, the student must suffer by tolerating and completing strenuous classes as well as classes that he/she has absolutely no interest in taking, tolerate paying large sums to the university (with the exception of those of full-ride scholarships who had to work hard before college) or to pay back loans among many other drawbacks

    The reward a drug addict seeks offsets the drawbacks for the drug addict. The reward(s) the graduate seek(s) offset the drawbacks for the graduate. Yes, the nature of the drawbacks and rewards are different, but it is possible that the drug addict would find that the suffering required for another goal will not produce happiness for him/her, that the pains required are intolerable. The converse applies to the student.

    Does your anger come from the fact that you find the drug addicts' mode(s) of happiness is/are useless compared to other modes of happiness, like running a factory, inventing better tools, ect.? The fact that their lifestyle doesn't directly benefit the group?
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    It's not the yuck factor. Nor the loss to society.

    My values are rooted in biology. I like people to exploit their environments, and multiply the species, and adapt... basically I like people to be powerful. This is incompatible with the OP's urge to cultivate passive contentment. He's telling us organisms to go satiate ourselves.

    I accept the OP's folly, since I see all organisms must pursue happiness. We're built to strive for it, humans strive for it creatively; with the natural condition that we never gain it in perfection and never for long. Who am I to trash this 3 billion-year-old donkey & carrot scheme I find myself in?

    I see drugs like crack as metagames played against the normal range of human values. The reward value of crack is off the board, so to speak. Hands down, drugs win. Also when organisms self-reward with drugs they disengage from their natural environments, since there is relatively little reward to be found there. They cease to live in the normal world of the living. Extinction is probable. From a biological perspective, that's wrong.

    So, like I said, I'm angry at parents, advertisers, and the ignoble consensus of liberal societies, for our moral endorsement of the supreme goods: heroin, meth, etc. There are some proven alternatives, like heaven, procreation, the war effort, which we no longer endorse.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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    So, in other words, you see drug addicts as cheating their way to the finish line in the pursuit of happiness.

    Yeah, I have to agree that it seems like those that comprise our society are getting...lazier, or at least that's the way I perceive the shift in endorsements. I also see your point as a biologist, valuing the preservation of the human race. I have no place to argue your opinions on this :wink: , as least not in this thread.

    Anyway, I was just wondering what your stance was in more detail. Thank you for the reply. :-D
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlatan
    Ok, to start again, what is the base human emotion? We are here to survive, and that means it is alerting us to dangers, which means it must be fear?
    My impression is that every living creature wants to survive, and it simultaneously is aware of its finite existence. Ergo fear.

    We living creature struggle to maintain biotic viability in the face of the inexorable. We feed off of negative entropy to build tiny bubbles of order, only to watch them get swept away.

    Look at the recent oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. The failure of the levees in New Orleans in 2005 Hurricane Katrina. The election fiasco in Florida in the presidential contest in 2000. The several space shuttle explosions. We build complex systems to keep disorder at bay, only to watch disorder creep back into the very complexity we build.

    We feed off of the second law of thermodynamics, only to watch it triumph in the end.

    I find, personally, that peace is when I shake hands with my oncoming death. No more struggle. Just empty myself of emotional responses to failure, and for one brief instant 'sense' the universe around me, best as I can.

    Imposing my fear on my external environment isn't going to make anything, or anyone, any better.
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