Notices
Results 1 to 51 of 51

Thread: How do you think arabs are?

  1. #1 How do you think arabs are? 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    just silmple answers,
    how do you think arabs, or muslims, (maybe both ok, ) are?
    i mean, what do you think of them, or maybe, how do you even think they are living, or thinking?
    just wondering, cause, i really find it very very weird, that some people, think we actually move on camels, bomb cars, sucied,
    i don't know, other kind of stuff
    so, what do you think?

    or, what do you know about them?


    and maybe, what do you think of Tunisians, if you know Tunisia,


    well, hmm, i think i'm don,
    so..?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    3,499
    I think you are missing a very simple point. You cannot generalize about so many people with any hope to retain accuracy when doing so. Even with just a few short sentences you've managed to show how biased and ill-informed you are. That's okay, because it's correctable, but your OP is little more than stereotypes and silliness.

    Please try to ask a better formed question. At present, you seem like you only want to have your existing prejudices affirmed, and I won't have any part of that.


    I'm going to guess that you're about 14 years old. Is that accurate?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    I think you are missing a very simple point. You cannot generalize about so many people with any hope to retain accuracy when doing so. Even with just a few short sentences you've managed to show how biased and ill-informed you are. That's okay, because it's correctable, but your OP is little more than stereotypes and silliness.

    Please try to ask a better formed question. At present, you seem like you only want to have your existing prejudices affirmed, and I won't have any part of that.


    I'm going to guess that you're about 14 years old. Is that accurate?
    well,
    i didnt understand anything you said,
    but your guess was right,
    lol
    i'm 15, and i'm 16 on march 15
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4 Re: How do you think arabs are? 
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    927
    inow he seems to be an arab himself that wonders how the general view on his people is. Why is it wrong for a young person to want to know this?

    cultures always generalize other cultures nomatter how inaccurate it may be.

    Shadow one thing you will learn in life is that people are people. No matter what religion, culture, geographic and other stuff that bind people together people will always be different. Theres good and bad sides of everything in life and about people aswell.


    Id say i dont like arabs because your culture tend to:

    - Disrespect women
    - Encourage slavery (forced marriage)
    - Force religion on their children

    But then again these evils are done by other religions, countries, cultures and so on aswell.

    Some people always believe the worst of others, these you have to prove wrong. Be modest and respectfull and open minded against other cultures and people but also dont be afraid to be strong enough to stand up for yourself when faced with ignorance, racism, cruelty, stupidity and other evils the world will be better of without.

    You have the power to change what people think about you and your culture every day.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5 Re: How do you think arabs are? 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Raziell
    inow he seems to be an arab himself that wonders how the general view on his people is. Why is it wrong for a young person to want to know this?

    cultures always generalize other cultures nomatter how inaccurate it may be.

    Shadow one thing you will learn in life is that people are people. No matter what religion, culture, geographic and other stuff that bind people together people will always be different. Theres good and bad sides of everything in life and about people aswell.


    Id say i dont like arabs because your culture tend to:

    - Disrespect women
    - Encourage slavery (forced marriage)
    - Force religion on their children

    But then again these evils are done by other religions, countries, cultures and so on aswell.

    Some people always believe the worst of others, these you have to prove wrong. Be modest and respectfull and open minded against other cultures and people but also dont be afraid to be strong enough to stand up for yourself when faced with ignorance, racism, cruelty, stupidity and other evils the world will be better of without.

    You have the power to change what people think about you and your culture every day.


    - Disrespect women
    - Encourage slavery (forced marriage)
    - Force religion on their children

    those ones, i kenw that this is what you'll say, and wish you totally beleive we are like that, hmm, ok, that's your personnal ipinion, you cant know how we are, inless you visited a contry, an arabic contry, maybe lebaon, sirya, tunisia, ...
    so, that's what do you think, in three lines
    anyway, wich i don't kare what do otehrs think cause media controls everything, and start spreadign bad stuff sometimes, anyway, as you said, people are people,
    anywhere, i know about that,
    and don't worry about the opening mind, you have no idea,

    thanks for encouragin me, but i'm fine, nothing of that distrub me, or even exists as you think it do, i'm 15!
    just a ps: islam, forbiden the slavery, killing with no right (like, killing to steal, not to defend your self if you had to) also it's forbiden to say bad things about other relegions, esspecially, christanity, and jew's relegion, ... it even forbid, to go deep into the relegion side, cause you see the relegion people, some of them, verse and understand everything upsidedown,
    anyway, still what you think, is not how we are, you have no idea,
    i was just curious, and i wanted to know, what do you think about us, and what do you know about us
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    it's kinda funny that you think that we are like that,
    i cant wait to see your reaction, if you visited an arabic contry, and saw by your eyes,
    anyway, arabic contries, are not all equal, i mean, some contries, are poor, some are very rich, and some are medium, between both,
    for example in tunisia, most of the populaion are medium class, the poorest people are living fine, have home, have all life neceries, no homeless, etc etc etc... and we are 10 millions
    while in egypte, they have, kinda a big poor population, but they are getting better everyday, muritania, water shortage, ...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Shadow,
    it is not very polite to ask for people's opinions on the matter then attack them when they offer these opinions. I realise that you are working in a foreign language and so you may not have entirely understood Raziell's post. Let me emphasis a couple of his points.

    1. Raziell is reluctant to express an opinion that assumes everyone of a particular ethinic group has the same characteristics. However he understand you would like to know a little of how others see your people so he has given you his thoughts.

    2. He says that the three negative aspects are tendencies. Not absolutes.

    3. Immediately he notes that many other cultures have and do, do the same things.

    4. He is on your side Shadow. Re-read his post and I hope you will be able to see that.

    However, there is some truth in he says about Arab and moslem culture. Before you suggest I don't know what I am talking about I ask you to consider that a) I lived in Egypt for four years b) I lived in Indonesia for one year. c) I have visited Algeria, Tunisia, Jordan, Syria, Iran, UAE, and Oman. d) I meet dozens of Arabs and Moslems every year, through my work. e) Oh, and I just happen to be married to a moslem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    3,499
    Shadow - I did miss part of your post on my first reading (thanks Raziell). My response? I have a problem with religious fundamentalists of all varieties, but my concerns don't apply to "arabs." That is far too broad of a label to have any meaning. I work with many people of many different nationalities, and I've found one thing to be true among them all. Individual attributes are more important than the attributes applied to the arbitrary group with which we associate them.

    In short, I see your question as meaningless (for me personally, that is... I know lots of people are happy to stereotype whole groups of people). When I read your question, I perceive it the same way I would someone asking "what do you think of people who wear socks?"

    What was your first response to that question? Like mine, probably... Sock wearers is too big a group to give a meaningful response.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    It is my impression that Muslims are intolerant of other religions. For example in your own country, practice of other religions is limited.
    Islam is the state religion. The Constitution provides for the free exercise of other religions that do not disturb the public order, and the Government generally observes and enforces this right; however, it does not permit proselytizing and partially limits the religious freedom of Baha'is.

    There was no change in the status of respect for religious freedom during the period covered by this report.

    Amicable relations exist among all religious communities. The Government prohibits proselytizing as an act against the public order for which foreign missionaries may be expelled.
    '''

    Governmental Restrictions on Freedom of Religion

    The Government controls and subsidizes mosques and pays the salaries of prayer leaders. The President appoints the Grand Mufti of the Republic. The 1988 Law on Mosques provides that only personnel appointed by the Government may lead activities in mosques, and stipulates that mosques must remain closed except during prayer times and other authorized religious ceremonies, such as marriages or funerals. New mosques may be built in accordance with national urban planning regulations but become the property of the State. The Constitution stipulates that the President of the Republic must be a Muslim. The Government also partially subsidizes the Jewish community.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...tunisia00.html
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    The Government also partially subsidizes the Jewish community.
    Looks like a multiculturalist policy. This is not the secularism melting-pot nations understand.



    I think we should be realistic about the requirement Presidents be Muslim. I'm pretty sure Tunisian society operates by Islamic machinery. Therefore to have authority regarding established structures, a president must too work within Islamic framework. Bluntly, a president must be qualified to tell clerics what to do. Indeed the 1988 Law on Mosques quoted shows government exercises a strong hand in regulating religion.

    That's not so different from Americans requiring their presidents speak and believe the language of business. Of course the president must work with business leaders as "one of them".
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    The Government also partially subsidizes the Jewish community.
    That's not so different from Americans requiring their presidents speak and believe the language of business. Of course the president must work with business leaders as "one of them".
    Oh, that's horse shit and you know it. Just try to imagine a western nation with similar laws.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Oh, that's horse shit and you know it. Just try to imagine a western nation with similar laws.
    Hmm. The head of state of the UK is also head of the Church of England. Twenty six bishops sit in the upper chamber of parliament, the House of Lords. Bishops and archbishops are appointed by the Prime Minister acting on behalf of the Queen. Prayers and religious instruction are an integral part of teaching in public schools.
    So I don't have to imagine a similar situation in a western nation, I just have to look at the UK.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Oh, that's horse shit and you know it. Just try to imagine a western nation with similar laws.
    Hmm. The head of state of the UK is also head of the Church of England. Twenty six bishops sit in the upper chamber of parliament, the House of Lords. Bishops and archbishops are appointed by the Prime Minister acting on behalf of the Queen. Prayers and religious instruction are an integral part of teaching in public schools.
    So I don't have to imagine a similar situation in a western nation, I just have to look at the UK.
    Are other religions prevented from proselytizing? Are there limitations on building houses of worship? Are there there restrictions on religions like Bahai is restricted in Muslim countries?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    LOL Your hatred is unstoppable. In the name of tolerance, huh?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    LOL Your hatred is unstoppable. In the name of tolerance, huh?
    Do you have any comments on the subject at hand or do you just want to criticize me? Do you think the policies of Tunisia and other Muslim countries are okay? Would you find similar restrictions on the practice of religion acceptable for your own country?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Shadow,
    it is not very polite to ask for people's opinions on the matter then attack them when they offer these opinions. I realise that you are working in a foreign language and so you may not have entirely understood Raziell's post. Let me emphasis a couple of his points.

    1. Raziell is reluctant to express an opinion that assumes everyone of a particular ethinic group has the same characteristics. However he understand you would like to know a little of how others see your people so he has given you his thoughts.

    2. He says that the three negative aspects are tendencies. Not absolutes.

    3. Immediately he notes that many other cultures have and do, do the same things.

    4. He is on your side Shadow. Re-read his post and I hope you will be able to see that.

    However, there is some truth in he says about Arab and moslem culture. Before you suggest I don't know what I am talking about I ask you to consider that a) I lived in Egypt for four years b) I lived in Indonesia for one year. c) I have visited Algeria, Tunisia, Jordan, Syria, Iran, UAE, and Oman. d) I meet dozens of Arabs and Moslems every year, through my work. e) Oh, and I just happen to be married to a moslem.
    ah, i see, i guess i mess understood,
    well, as you said, he said his opinion, and this topic is about opinion, so i should respect that,
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17 Re: How do you think arabs are? 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    to inow:

    lol, yeah, you're right
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Shadow,
    it is not very polite to ask for people's opinions on the matter then attack them when they offer these opinions. I realise that you are working in a foreign language and so you may not have entirely understood Raziell's post. Let me emphasis a couple of his points.

    1. Raziell is reluctant to express an opinion that assumes everyone of a particular ethinic group has the same characteristics. However he understand you would like to know a little of how others see your people so he has given you his thoughts.

    2. He says that the three negative aspects are tendencies. Not absolutes.

    3. Immediately he notes that many other cultures have and do, do the same things.

    4. He is on your side Shadow. Re-read his post and I hope you will be able to see that.

    However, there is some truth in he says about Arab and moslem culture. Before you suggest I don't know what I am talking about I ask you to consider that a) I lived in Egypt for four years b) I lived in Indonesia for one year. c) I have visited Algeria, Tunisia, Jordan, Syria, Iran, UAE, and Oman. d) I meet dozens of Arabs and Moslems every year, through my work. e) Oh, and I just happen to be married to a moslem.
    ah, i see, i guess i mess understood,
    well, as you said, he said his opinion, and this topic is about opinion, so i should respect that,
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    It is my impression that Muslims are intolerant of other religions. For example in your own country, practice of other religions is limited.
    Islam is the state religion. The Constitution provides for the free exercise of other religions that do not disturb the public order, and the Government generally observes and enforces this right; however, it does not permit proselytizing and partially limits the religious freedom of Baha'is.

    There was no change in the status of respect for religious freedom during the period covered by this report.

    Amicable relations exist among all religious communities. The Government prohibits proselytizing as an act against the public order for which foreign missionaries may be expelled.
    '''

    Governmental Restrictions on Freedom of Religion

    The Government controls and subsidizes mosques and pays the salaries of prayer leaders. The President appoints the Grand Mufti of the Republic. The 1988 Law on Mosques provides that only personnel appointed by the Government may lead activities in mosques, and stipulates that mosques must remain closed except during prayer times and other authorized religious ceremonies, such as marriages or funerals. New mosques may be built in accordance with national urban planning regulations but become the property of the State. The Constitution stipulates that the President of the Republic must be a Muslim. The Government also partially subsidizes the Jewish community.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...tunisia00.html
    huh?
    pay for mosques and controll mosques and stuff ...
    hmm,
    we have jews and christians here, the majority, is muslim, and arab, so the president, should follow the majority, that mean, he should be a muslim, and an arab, not exactly an arab, that means, he have the nationality of that contry,
    otherwise, all what you quoted, hmm, huuh??!!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    so, do you think, that in tunisia, and many other arab contries, women are disrespected, or, mayeb you think, sold and boght like slaves, or maybe forcing relegion? do you think that here, women have no rights, and women are forced, and suffering, as you said, or think? do you think that other relegions, are illegal? then why there's churches and those jew's temples (don't know what they call it).
    women here are free to do everything they want and have their hrights, also in many other arab contries, then, tell me why do they wear the head scraft, ...
    anyway, express what you think
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21 Re: . 
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    do you think that other relegions, are illegal? then why there's churches and those jew's temples (don't know what they call it).
    women here are free to do everything they want and have their hrights, also in many other arab contries, then, tell me why do they wear the head scraft, ...
    anyway, express what you think
    Other religions are not illegal in Muslim countries, but are certainly not treated equally. In most western countries, Muslims can preach and convert others to Islam, they can print and distribute Korans, they can build mosques, they are not required to pay taxes to support another religion, and they can hold public office. They fully expect to enjoy these rights, which they do not offer to others in their own home countries.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    LOL Your hatred is unstoppable. In the name of tolerance, huh?
    Do you have any comments on the subject at hand or do you just want to criticize me? Do you think the policies of Tunisia and other Muslim countries are okay? Would you find similar restrictions on the practice of religion acceptable for your own country?
    I have no desire to rate "okay" or "not okay". I do see shadow001 is trolling for negative opinions, and your response is sadly predictable. If you really think some 1% minority's freedom to leaflet on street corners is of prime concern, go knock yourself out.


    I might have opinions on the status of women in Tunisia, that run a bit deeper than most. Harshly, I consider crack-addict prostitutes and trailer-park Cinderellas victims of a dis-empowering system actively promoted in the West. So I see the headscarf as symbolic rejection of women's "freedom" to promote themselves physically. The fact that these women do secure husbands and families regardless tells me they have got powers their Western sisters lack.

    I understand that in Tunisia some moves have been made in the direction of banning the headscarf. I wonder how that affects a girl's prospects in life? What game will she have to play to secure her future? I don't imagine there's any sense of wage equity in Tunisia. How does it look to you shadow001?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    LOL Your hatred is unstoppable. In the name of tolerance, huh?
    Do you have any comments on the subject at hand or do you just want to criticize me? Do you think the policies of Tunisia and other Muslim countries are okay? Would you find similar restrictions on the practice of religion acceptable for your own country?
    I have no desire to rate "okay" or "not okay". I do see shadow001 is trolling for negative opinions, and your response is sadly predictable. If you really think some 1% minority's freedom to leaflet on street corners is of prime concern, go knock yourself out.


    I might have opinions on the status of women in Tunisia, that run a bit deeper than most. Harshly, I consider crack-addict prostitutes and trailer-park Cinderellas victims of a dis-empowering system actively promoted in the West. So I see the headscarf as symbolic rejection of women's "freedom" to promote themselves physically. The fact that these women do secure husbands and families regardless tells me they have got powers their Western sisters lack.

    I understand that in Tunisia some moves have been made in the direction of banning the headscarf. I wonder how that affects a girl's prospects in life? What game will she have to play to secure her future? I don't imagine there's any sense of wage equity in Tunisia. How does it look to you shadow001?
    ok, first of all, head sraft, is not banned, hijab is, about deciding to wear or not, no woman is forced to,
    secure their future? huh! my sister is the pigpang arab champion, also won many competitions in europe, and africa, and she's studyign maths, and in the next two years, she will be a doctor or maths at univercity,
    secure their future hah!
    well, i don't know what do you even think, can you explain more, about securing their future? and why do you think head scraft should be also banned? if it's banned, then it's also called lack of freedom, and dictatorship, women are free to wear it or not, but banning it, will be dusrespect to freedom for women who wants to wear it, anyway, can you expain more what you said?
    and what do you mean, what does it look to me how?
    what you're even saying, is sterotype, not true,
    anyway, it's your own opinion, so, i'll respect that
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24 Re: . 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    do you think that other relegions, are illegal? then why there's churches and those jew's temples (don't know what they call it).
    women here are free to do everything they want and have their hrights, also in many other arab contries, then, tell me why do they wear the head scraft, ...
    anyway, express what you think
    Other religions are not illegal in Muslim countries, but are certainly not treated equally. In most western countries, Muslims can preach and convert others to Islam, they can print and distribute Korans, they can build mosques, they are not required to pay taxes to support another religion, and they can hold public office. They fully expect to enjoy these rights, which they do not offer to others in their own home countries.
    and, who told you that?
    rejected? illegal?
    pffffff
    ok
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    i'm not trolling for negative opinions, but i'm trolling for positif opinions,
    but just when you say things, that i never saw, or even exist in most arab contries, so it's when i say "o..kay...!" in my mind,
    cause i fidn it truly weird,
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    LOL Your hatred is unstoppable. In the name of tolerance, huh?
    Hatred is a bit strong, no?

    I am not poor by African standards, but South Africa is far from a developed country, even though we are the largest economy in Africa (as far as I know). We have terrible HIV figures, we have a charity specifically for children burnt in shack cooking fires, our President is an adulterous statutory rapist etc, There are two families hanging out at the back of our shop, children running around naked and shitting on the grass embankment, waiting for any scraps they might get from the fast food joint next door. People and children are still being murdered for their body parts to be used as muti in this country even to this day. Our Taxi bus industry is killing people and burning down buses to prevent a proper and competing infrastructure from taking route. The same people that were the victims of racism and apartheid for many decades are indulging in xenophobic attacks. We have a municipality literally handing out maze bags for a community to crap in because they refuse to accept responsibility for service delivery. And so on and so forth. Is this what freedom is? Bring on an Islamic state.

    There are worse things than being told what to do.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    LOL Your hatred is unstoppable. In the name of tolerance, huh?
    Hatred is a bit strong, no?

    I am not poor by African standards, but South Africa is far from a developed country, even though we are the largest economy in Africa (as far as I know). We have terrible HIV figures, we have a charity specifically for children burnt in shack cooking fires, our President is an adulterous statutory rapist etc, There are two families hanging out at the back of our shop, children running around naked and shitting on the grass embankment, waiting for any scraps they might get from the fast food joint next door. People and children are still being murdered for their body parts to be used as muti in this country even to this day. Our Taxi bus industry is killing people and burning down buses to prevent a proper and competing infrastructure from taking route. The same people that were the victims of racism and apartheid for many decades are indulging in xenophobic attacks. We have a municipality literally handing out maze bags for a community to crap in because they refuse to accept responsibility for service delivery. And so on and so forth. Is this what freedom is? Bring on an Islamic state.

    There are worse things than being told what to do.
    wait, did you copy this and pasted it, from the other topic, of, where is everybody from?
    anyway, again,
    don't worry, everything will get better, like it getted better from another time,
    and what do you mean with bring on an islamic state? what does this supose to mean?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    Yes I copied it. I mean too much freedom can be a bad thing for some developing countries.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    hmm, yeah, maybe you're right, i don't know,
    but, what did you mean with bringing on an islamic state? what does it supose to mean?

    lol, ok, i pasted my answer here also, so, you're starting to go off-topic there, so, stay here if you are going to talk about this
    lol
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30 Re: . 
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    hmm, yeah, maybe you're right, i don't know,
    but, what did you mean with bringing on an islamic state? what does it supose to mean?

    lol, ok, i pasted my answer here also, so, you're starting to go off-topic there, so, stay here if you are going to talk about this
    lol
    People have been noting the bad things about Islamic states. I am saying that it is not all bad. All the powerful Western countries that are waving fingers at everybody went through the same periods and while what they are saying is mostly absolutely correct, they fail to consider that people have to develop culturally first before they can take full benefit of liberty. To develop culturally requires more than a talking to. It can take generations.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    If you really think some 1% minority's freedom to leaflet on street corners is of prime concern, go knock yourself out.
    Well yes, hereabouts we tend to value freedom of speech and religion. Do you think those rights exist, or are they only for the majority?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    and, who told you that?
    I got it from the web site that I linked to in a previous post. If the information is wrong, please provide the correct information. It said
    The Government controls and subsidizes mosques and pays the salaries of prayer leaders.
    Is that true or false? If true, then non-muslims are paying taxes to support your religion.
    It said:
    The Government regards the Baha'i Faith as a heretical sect of Islam and permits its adherents to practice their faith only in private.
    Is that true or false?
    It said:
    In general the Government does not permit Christian groups to establish new churches, and proselytizing is viewed as an act against the public order.
    True or false?
    It said:
    the Government views public distribution of both religious and secular documents as a threat to the public order and hence an illegal act.
    True or false?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #32 Re: . 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    hmm, yeah, maybe you're right, i don't know,
    but, what did you mean with bringing on an islamic state? what does it supose to mean?

    lol, ok, i pasted my answer here also, so, you're starting to go off-topic there, so, stay here if you are going to talk about this
    lol
    People have been noting the bad things about Islamic states. I am saying that it is not all bad. All the powerful Western countries that are waving fingers at everybody went through the same periods and while what they are saying is mostly absolutely correct, they fail to consider that people have to develop culturally first before they can take full benefit of liberty. To develop culturally requires more than a talking to. It can take generations.
    ah, yes i see you're point, freedom for who don't deserve it, is like leting a savadge dog attacing everyone,
    so, yeah, you may have a good point,
    but, there must be always freedom, even if not 100 percent
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #33
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    If you really think some 1% minority's freedom to leaflet on street corners is of prime concern, go knock yourself out.
    Well yes, hereabouts we tend to value freedom of speech and religion. Do you think those rights exist, or are they only for the majority?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    and, who told you that?
    I got it from the web site that I linked to in a previous post. If the information is wrong, please provide the correct information. It said
    The Government controls and subsidizes mosques and pays the salaries of prayer leaders.
    Is that true or false? If true, then non-muslims are paying taxes to support your religion.
    It said:
    The Government regards the Baha'i Faith as a heretical sect of Islam and permits its adherents to practice their faith only in private.
    Is that true or false?
    It said:
    In general the Government does not permit Christian groups to establish new churches, and proselytizing is viewed as an act against the public order.
    True or false?
    It said:
    the Government views public distribution of both religious and secular documents as a threat to the public order and hence an illegal act.
    True or false?
    huuh?!
    ...

    "" O...kay... ""

    as you wish,
    it's uselss to talk
    so,
    O..K...

    lol, i think you're just confused
    so, just, lol
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #34  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    ah, yes i see you're point, freedom for who don't deserve it, is like leting a savadge dog attacing everyone,
    so, yeah, you may have a good point,
    but, there must be always freedom, even if not 100 percent
    I agree. I am not saying people should be suppressed, just that some societies require a more conservative approach. Even the US and such have restrictions based on what they consider moral. While I might mostly agree with their idea of morality and idea of freedom, I think that cultures need to have a conservative guiding hand in the government. Cultures grow into maturity, but before they reach it, they must be told what to do. I am an atheist, but the utility of sensible religious tutelage is undeniable.

    huuh?!
    ...

    "" O...kay... ""

    as you wish,
    it's uselss to talk
    so,
    O..K...

    lol, i think you're just confused
    so, just, lol
    To be fair, those are legitimate questions. Can't you answer them?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #35 Re: . 
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    huuh?!
    ...

    "" O...kay... ""

    as you wish,
    it's uselss to talk
    so,
    O..K...

    lol, i think you're just confused
    so, just, lol
    Well, that is not very helpful. I was hoping to learn something from someone who actually lives there.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #36  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    ah, yes i see you're point, freedom for who don't deserve it, is like leting a savadge dog attacing everyone,
    so, yeah, you may have a good point,
    but, there must be always freedom, even if not 100 percent
    I agree. I am not saying people should be suppressed, just that some societies require a more conservative approach. Even the US and such have restrictions based on what they consider moral. While I might mostly agree with their idea of morality and idea of freedom, I think that cultures need to have a conservative guiding hand in the government. Cultures grow into maturity, but before it reaches it, it must be told what to do. I am an atheist, but the utility of sensible religious tutelage is undeniable.
    yeah, but, morality, is what it should be related to society, more than goverments,
    the goverment, should just make discussions and convincings, and make like hearing classes for who have problems, learn new parents how to make their children successfull, with hight morals, that is the role of the family,
    in the most of the western society, when the kid reach 18 or 19, he leave home, or his parents kick him out,
    while in many other contries, like tunisia, other arab contries, japan, and otehr asian contries, kid don't leave home intell they get marry, they leae it when they get married, or to study aboard, or for work in another contry, ...
    even after mariage, relations stay strong, and bonds don't desepear, for example in tunisia, there is no homeless, why, cause people help each other, that guy don't have his own home, stay with his parents, or his uncles, or other family related, or their friends, they are married, don't have home, they stay at one the famileis home, intell they find one etc etc etc... you never find some one in very need of help, while in many western contries, the family bonds, are missing, homeless people, are with thousands, under zero level poor people, also thousands, people who had to use crime to live, also the same,
    anyway, freedom should be given like 90 oe 85 percent at least, but the rest, to keep the contry attacked to each other, and attached to it's ground, that needs talking and discussing, trying to solve the other moral problems, by discussions, talking and discussion, and also educating people, is the best way, to make a stable succesfull society
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #37 Re: . 
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    ok, first of all, head sraft, is not banned, hijab is, about deciding to wear or not, no woman is forced to
    The hijab is banned in schools, and in government jobs, correct?

    Try to understand where I'm coming from. The system in North America encourages girls to competitively employ charm and beauty as means of securing their futures. Bluntly, women offer sex appeal to attract a breadwinner, then sex to clinch the deal... and this is not called prostitution. That vicious cycle perpetuates gender inequality, here, and in many other countries. We are getting over it though. Well, I don't see a trace of it in Islam. Do Tunisian girls study Cosmopolitan? Are they given Barbie?


    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    secure their future? huh! my sister is the pigpang arab champion, also won many competitions in europe, and africa, and she's studyign maths, and in the next two years, she will be a doctor or maths at univercity,
    secure their future hah!
    That's wonderful. I wish all women could be so powerful.

    So in that light I'm thinking Tunisian women don't need the hijab for their protection.

    I'd like to know more about how women fit in Tunisian society.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    if it's banned, then it's also called lack of freedom, and dictatorship, women are free to wear it or not, but banning it, will be dusrespect to freedom for women who wants to wear it, anyway, can you expain more what you said?
    Is this a hot issue in Tunisia?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #38 Re: . 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    huuh?!
    ...

    "" O...kay... ""

    as you wish,
    it's uselss to talk
    so,
    O..K...

    lol, i think you're just confused
    so, just, lol
    Well, that is not very helpful. I was hoping to learn something from someone who actually lives there.
    oh, i thoght you were just mocking,
    sorry,
    ok then, i'll answer your questions gladly

    anyway those things that you asked me about, true or false,
    the answer are false, i know soem christians, and also some theists, also some jews,
    but still the majorty are muslims,
    anyway, i didnt see any new churches built, cause even mosques are not built by people, most times, if some areas, wanted a mosque, they just send orders to the city-hall, and there for, they build one for them,
    there are some churches, but, there's no law against building them,
    also paying taxes and stuff, for muslims and non-muslims, are bullshit, what do you think, put the relegion on the identity card? effcorse not, relegion and politics here, are two seperated things, relegion, is like, pleasure for people, politcis, is like the future of the contry, and it's needs
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #39 Re: . 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    ok, first of all, head sraft, is not banned, hijab is, about deciding to wear or not, no woman is forced to
    The hijab is banned in schools, and in government jobs, correct?

    Try to understand where I'm coming from. The system in North America encourages girls to competitively employ charm and beauty as means of securing their futures. Bluntly, women offer sex appeal to attract a breadwinner, then sex to clinch the deal... and this is not called prostitution. That vicious cycle perpetuates gender inequality, here, and in many other countries. We are getting over it though. Well, I don't see a trace of it in Islam. Do Tunisian girls study Cosmopolitan? Are they given Barbie?


    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    secure their future? huh! my sister is the pigpang arab champion, also won many competitions in europe, and africa, and she's studyign maths, and in the next two years, she will be a doctor or maths at univercity,
    secure their future hah!
    That's wonderful. I wish all women could be so powerful.

    So in that light I'm thinking Tunisian women don't need the hijab for their protection.

    I'd like to know more about how women fit in Tunisian society.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    if it's banned, then it's also called lack of freedom, and dictatorship, women are free to wear it or not, but banning it, will be dusrespect to freedom for women who wants to wear it, anyway, can you expain more what you said?
    Is this a hot issue in Tunisia?
    well, i kinda find it weird to be asked about those questions, but since you're asking, and you don't know how most arab contries, are, withing Tunisia

    ok, we don't use the beauty thing to provide future, we have different morals here, girls who wear too short clothes, and search for sex, are called here bitches,
    barbie? what do you mean, the barbie dall, it's a toy, what about it? is it banned?!
    want to provide you're future, esspecialy for girls, study, or make a buisness, and not sex buisness, caue it's nothing but a misery,
    also, not all women in the most arab contries, wear hijab,or the head scraft, they are just free to do it, when you hear, just the word, arab contry, or muslim contry, you'll just think like women are forced, and all women wear the hijab etc etc etc...
    but in materfact, no,
    and no, it's not a hot issue, it's not an issue at all,
    you may ask why hijab is banned, cause it cover the face, what if a woman, make a crime, and police search for her, and many women wear hijab, how do you think they can know her, i mean, the running criminal,
    that's why it's banned
    and no, it's not an issue, what issue exactly you mean
    anyway, i don't know how to tell about us, cause, i'm one of those us, so, you can ask me precise questions, not general questions,
    oh, want an advice, don't beleive what you see on the media, i mean, the forcing, the agressive, the islam support terrorism, etc etc etc... actually, before i even started to join some discussion, i just discovered, that some people, who just think the all bad things about us, also i saw what some american medias shows, anyway, i didnt thoght, that that's what you think about us before i started to join forums, some times, i just thoght, hmm, nothing,
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #40  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    [ People and children are still being murdered for their body parts to be used as muti in this country even to this day. Our Taxi bus industry is killing people and burning down buses to prevent a proper and competing infrastructure from taking route. The same people that were the victims of racism and apartheid for many decades are indulging in xenophobic attacks. We have a municipality literally handing out maze bags for a community to crap in because they refuse to accept responsibility for service delivery. And so on and so forth. Is this what freedom is? Bring on an Islamic state.

    There are worse things than being told what to do.
    That's not freedom, it's lawlessness. I have heard stories like that about Zimbabwe but was not aware that it was that bad in South Africa. Looks like you better get out of there while the getting's good.
    I kind of expected that to happen there eventually, but didn't realize it's like that already.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  42. #41
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    [ People and children are still being murdered for their body parts to be used as muti in this country even to this day. Our Taxi bus industry is killing people and burning down buses to prevent a proper and competing infrastructure from taking route. The same people that were the victims of racism and apartheid for many decades are indulging in xenophobic attacks. We have a municipality literally handing out maze bags for a community to crap in because they refuse to accept responsibility for service delivery. And so on and so forth. Is this what freedom is? Bring on an Islamic state.

    There are worse things than being told what to do.
    That's not freedom, it's lawlessness. I have heard stories like that about Zimbabwe but was not aware that it was that bad in South Africa. Looks like you better get out of there while the getting's good.
    I kind of expected that to happen there eventually, but didn't realize it's like that already.
    i thoght that south africa is a very nice place,
    Reply With Quote  
     

  43. #42 Re: . 
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    we don't use the beauty thing to provide future, we have different morals here, girls who wear too short clothes, and search for sex, are called here bitches,
    barbie? what do you mean, the barbie dall, it's a toy, what about it? is it banned?!
    want to provide you're future, esspecialy for girls, study, or make a buisness, and not sex buisness, caue it's nothing but a misery,
    Is it expected a woman first prove good sex with a man before he marries her?

    Do Tunisian women get desperate to secure a husband? How does courtship work in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    not all women in the most arab contries, wear hijab,or the head scraft, they are just free to do it, when you hear, just the word, arab contry, or muslim contry, you'll just think like women are forced, and all women wear the hijab etc etc etc...
    but in materfact, no
    I find that, like you say, most Western males assume women wear the hijab because men force them. I think this mistake is partially due to Western notions of social freedom and power, and "natural" gender differences. The idea is free women love to be valued and rated on their appearance. You see where we get that idea.

    There are bad examples of hijab like with Taliban women. But one can point to bleached blonds in Tokyo living just as low in another way.

    So with no standard in Tunisia about wearing it, who does? And why? Are there similar fashions for males that put you into one subculture or another?


    Anyway, I still don't know much about Arabs. Islam steals the attention. Well, I know Iranians aren't Arabs. They make a point of saying so: "Pleased to meet you and I am not an Arab! I'm Persian - big difference!" Then I get an overview of the glorious Persian history...
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  44. #43 Re: . 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    we don't use the beauty thing to provide future, we have different morals here, girls who wear too short clothes, and search for sex, are called here bitches,
    barbie? what do you mean, the barbie dall, it's a toy, what about it? is it banned?!
    want to provide you're future, esspecialy for girls, study, or make a buisness, and not sex buisness, caue it's nothing but a misery,
    Is it expected a woman first prove good sex with a man before he marries her?

    Do Tunisian women get desperate to secure a husband? How does courtship work in your country?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    not all women in the most arab contries, wear hijab,or the head scraft, they are just free to do it, when you hear, just the word, arab contry, or muslim contry, you'll just think like women are forced, and all women wear the hijab etc etc etc...
    but in materfact, no
    I find that, like you say, most Western males assume women wear the hijab because men force them. I think this mistake is partially due to Western notions of social freedom and power, and "natural" gender differences. The idea is free women love to be valued and rated on their appearance. You see where we get that idea.

    There are bad examples of hijab like with Taliban women. But one can point to bleached blonds in Tokyo living just as low in another way.

    So with no standard in Tunisia about wearing it, who does? And why? Are there similar fashions for males that put you into one subculture or another?


    Anyway, I still don't know much about Arabs. Islam steals the attention. Well, I know Iranians aren't Arabs. They make a point of saying so: "Pleased to meet you and I am not an Arab! I'm Persian - big difference!" Then I get an overview of the glorious Persian history...

    well, women who have sex before marriage here, are sluts, honestly, they are bitches,
    anyway, most women, don't have sex before marriage, but they do have a relation with someone, like a girl fall in love with a guy, if it worked, they get married, or something like that, just like in the western world, but, we are more strict, when it comes about the sexual desires and stuff,
    and this is not just applied on tunisian women you know, alos mnay other arab contries, and muslim contries,
    wearing the headscraft, or the hijab, i don't know, you should ask a girl for that, a girl that wears one, hijab is banned here, also in other contries, for security reasons, i mean, a criminal, even a man criminal, can use the hijab to cover himself and hide, so that's why,
    women who wears the head scraft, esspecially for the married women, and i agree, avoid her from the other men, i mean, like that they try to impress her, and steal her from her husband, also, it maked the woman more self independent from men, independent from the sexual desires of the other sexe, not to be just a sexual tool, or a toy, make her feel important, not justa dall for a man,
    anyway, not all women wears it, i cant say most wear it, and i cant say most don't wear it,
    now about fashion, nothing special, we wear like the western world, but we have our traditinoal blothes, we wear it in some occations, actullay i love it, i mean the tradional cloth, but as for women, women don't wear very short clothes, if she did, LOL, every men see her, will stay looking, like, when she walks in the street, you'll find that every man is looking at her, lol, and they think also that she's a beatch, that's not applied on the tourists, cause we know about your life style and otehr stuff,
    as for women who wear the head scraft, all her body is covered, not the face or her hands i mean, they have their fashion, it's more western look, and it's beautifull and colorfull, just every girl or woman that wears the head scraft, follow her sence of fashion, without going too naked or something, they wear geens, shirts, etc etc etc... just normal stuff,
    similar fashion for men, no, we all wear like western people, just most people in the middle east have their fashion, you know it, but not the youth, old people there wear that big white one, and it's not that bad, and there's a reason why they wear it, because of the hot weather, it maked them feal cooler, at that tempeture,
    but we still have our tradional clothes in the relegion occations, or otehr special occations,

    iranian are'nt arab, but they use arabic letters, and they have a communte hisory with arabs, they had a history before the arabic civilisation,
    islam appeared, in liek a hole, when the persian and the babilian empires, became weak because of their wars together, so, they shrinked, and leved a small space, in this small space, the islam appeared, and from it, it started a great civilisation, it's inventions, still used intill this day, in scienc, like surgeries, earth is round, the movement of the planets of the solar system, as we know it toaday, eye glasses, mecanique, camera light room, (that boc with the small hole) [i maked a topic about those inventions and stuff] anyway, after that, persians, and arabs, are like, a one empire, but with independent goverments, they are not arabs, but they muslims, they are persians
    Reply With Quote  
     

  45. #44  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Thanks for the info. I also learned that 50% of university students are female. As for women's rights activists in Tunisia, it is telling that their main complaint is over the hijab ban. Some of them are former civil servants who quit their jobs rather than take it off. So, yeah, it's definitely a freedom.

    I think Tunisian girls see they have control of their futures. They don't need to "earn their keep" by mothering a man's children. So they'll develop identity and life choices better. Being Barbie is not the best option.

    Now for good or bad, depending on how you look at it, Tunisia's birth-rate is falling toward zero growth. I see this as result of women's financial independence from men. So will Tunisia begin to take immigrants? Then how does Tunisian society handle a hypothetical future where half the elementary students are children of minority group immigrants?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  46. #45
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Thanks for the info. I also learned that 50% of university students are female. As for women's rights activists in Tunisia, it is telling that their main complaint is over the hijab ban. Some of them are former civil servants who quit their jobs rather than take it off. So, yeah, it's definitely a freedom.

    I think Tunisian girls see they have control of their futures. They don't need to "earn their keep" by mothering a man's children. So they'll develop identity and life choices better. Being Barbie is not the best option.

    Now for good or bad, depending on how you look at it, Tunisia's birth-rate is falling toward zero growth. I see this as result of women's financial independence from men. So will Tunisia begin to take immigrants? Then how does Tunisian society handle a hypothetical future where half the elementary students are children of minority group immigrants?
    the answer for that, is a maghreb union,
    tunisia, and also all the arab contries, always lose their scientfic minds, i mean, scientists, those scientists are thousands, who go to complete their study at the more developed contries; and even alot between them, not most and not least, are inventors, the arab contries, are developing by time, scienctific attarction, and more univercities are taking places, more rights and people education, is growing in other arab contries,
    now about tunisia, in the future, i'm not worried about being with a zero birth rate will make a problem, we are like that since my father was still a kid,
    welcoming immegrants in the future, as a hube, of immigration and destnation to, i don't think it will be a problem, first, tunisia is not the only developing contry in the africa, also in the arab world, there's always other attracton in the future, , so, we want find a concentration of immigrations, anyway, this immigration, will mostly be arabic, anyway, propably in the future, tunisia will make visas for visitors, for tourists not a poblem, tunisia and alot of arab contries are touristic,
    also, there are some unions on the way, the mederranian union (tunisia+france+italy+algeria+morocoo+libya+spain) also a maghrebian union (tunisia+morocco+algeria+libya+muritania) also, another union, wich it's very very hard to make, cause of israeil and america, wich they causing political problems and wars at the middle east, the arab union, already exists, but, not based on a united nation, but just like a round table, for the arab presedents and leaders) this union is har, and far to accomplish, because of u.s.a, and israeil, they are blocking each hole that can lead to this union,
    anyway, the medeterranian union, also the maghreb union, may take a while, bu it will be accomplished, and take it's place, those unions, will defferenlty solve this problem, also, solve the other union contries problems, also, give a bigger push into evelopement, and higher steps, into a greater arab union,

    there's a new space progran, in u.a.e. shared by all arab contries, to conquer space, and make their own space program, this project will aim to attarct the immegrant arab scientists, back to this scientific hube, i think this is a good potential for the middle east, also for a far future arab union
    if not of u.s.a, and israeil, we would be one nation by now, or at least near it,


    wow, sorry, i'm waay off-topic
    Reply With Quote  
     

  47. #46  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    No, that's interesting and topical.

    Do you know the concept of "brain-drain"? This is where one country tries to develop by training people at great expense, and another country steals the reward by hiring them. So economy and quality of life goes up in the "have" country, while the "have-not" country just loses. This can make the brain-drain effect even stronger.

    Won't centres like Tunisia and UAE become super brain-drains? Then within the Maghreb etc. unions you have serious inequality and resentment between member countries. Sorry to be negative here. I know in the past there have been large movements of skilled workers in the Arab world, which caused tensions. See what happened in Kuwait.



    Something just occurred to me, linking women's education with brain-drain. Are Tunisian women just as likely to go abroad for better paying jobs? I guess it's more often the men...?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  48. #47
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    No, that's interesting and topical.

    Do you know the concept of "brain-drain"? This is where one country tries to develop by training people at great expense, and another country steals the reward by hiring them. So economy and quality of life goes up in the "have" country, while the "have-not" country just loses. This can make the brain-drain effect even stronger.

    Won't centres like Tunisia and UAE become super brain-drains? Then within the Maghreb etc. unions you have serious inequality and resentment between member countries. Sorry to be negative here. I know in the past there have been large movements of skilled workers in the Arab world, which caused tensions. See what happened in Kuwait.



    Something just occurred to me, linking women's education with brain-drain. Are Tunisian women just as likely to go abroad for better paying jobs? I guess it's more often the men...?
    do you mean, super brain-drains, arab contries, give scientific minds, and other contries tak it? well, it's already happening, the problem, not them, it's us, we still don't have the needed centers, for scientific inventions and stuff... but it's starting to appear goodly, with the new industrual movements in some arab contries, like tunisia, tunisia by 2016 is going to be one of the most important industrual hube of teh medeterranian, france, italy, and other european contries, are full with arabs, just full, you can find arabs where ever you go, why, immigration, for studying, once they go there, they fidn better job oppentunities, they stay there, or scientists, they stay there, actually, from my own city, i know some one, works in nasa, and u.s.a. don't want to leave him go back home, without making him forgett all knoledge in his head, america, steal scientists, i know also another guy, he went back like a craizy man, they brain washed him, cause he wanted to leave those labs, and gards around him all the time, so hey brain washed him, and sent him back, while in france, and europe, they give him a choise, to stay with them in labs without going home, or go home, and i know also many people from my city, who refused, and came back, cause they know that it will be horrible to stay ther,
    i'm not sayin that we have no inventers in our back home, we have some, but not like the immegrant ones, who invent here, most time is at maths, cause math don't nned labs, or scientific labs or tools, it just need mind, that biy, is abou 23 years old, he discoverd a new mathematic equations, while he's doing his homework, cause he didnt fin time to make his homework, while his late for univercity, so he maked a short cut, and, pooff, an invetion in maths, and others
    (not just tunisia, also many other arab contries)


    anywa, if you mean, tunisia, and other contries, to be a super brain drains, attrat scientists, in the future, if you mean, bringing back our scientists, by giving them better offers of jobs and requirements for science love, yes, but you mean stealing other scientists, i don't know, it's not happening in japan or s.korea, so, i don't actually know,

    so, can you make your question; more clear?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  49. #48  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    I meant Tunisia stealing engineers from Egypt, or the UAE stealing computer programmers from Iran. Or Kuwait stealing oil-field workers from Iraq.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  50. #49
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    I meant Tunisia stealing engineers from Egypt, or the UAE stealing computer programmers from Iran. Or Kuwait stealing oil-field workers from Iraq.
    at the contrary, middle east steal ingenears from tunisia, also other partsfrom the world,
    egypt, i don't think so, they still need to work on their poor class first,
    also, i don't preder stealing, word, stealing means, as i said, force them, to stay on their labs, like america do, but europe is lesser, at least it leave the choise for that pearson to say yes and stay wih them for ever, or no, so they send him home,
    that's called stealing, i mean, forcing them, europe, not much,
    it's called free-will, they decide what to do, contries only provide attractions,
    Reply With Quote  
     

  51. #50 Re: How do you think arabs are? 
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow001
    just silmple answers,
    how do you think arabs, or muslims, (maybe both ok, ) are?
    i mean, what do you think of them, or maybe, how do you even think they are living, or thinking?
    just wondering, cause, i really find it very very weird, that some people, think we actually move on camels, bomb cars, sucied,
    i don't know, other kind of stuff
    so, what do you think?

    or, what do you know about them?


    and maybe, what do you think of Tunisians, if you know Tunisia,


    well, hmm, i think i'm don,
    so..?
    Ironic that the only people that come up with these kind of naivety (such as old me) questions always return and the ones who aren't. don't.

    Anyway I will help answer your question on two terms. One, in your frame of mind and TWO, in my frame of mind.

    How do you think arabs, or muslims, (maybe both ok, ) are?
    1: They must be really different to me, I find some of their ideas dangerous and threatening to my beliefs. I am curious about them but I would not trust them.

    2: Are? Who says the 'are' anything. Why not say 'how do you think 6 foot guys are'? The question is vauge and ambigious. I feel there is a generalised assumption made that is assinuated in the question that 'they' are different by default and now you want us to explain that difference.

    Personally they 'are' as am I. We 'are' and thats all there is to it. I find a lot of arabs and muslims great people. They are human beings with a different location and religion to me. Nothing different really.

    Equally in my eyes their skin colour and religion means as much to me as the different colour in underwear they are wearing to me. It doesnt matter. Live and let live, even if I or them choose pink :P

    i mean, what do you think of them, or maybe, how do you even think they are living, or thinking?
    1: They are thinking different to me because they live in a different area to me with different surroundings and god knows what they would do if.... if this... if that...

    2: We are all thinking the same thing... about ourselves.


    just wondering, cause, i really find it very very weird, that some people, think we actually move on camels, bomb cars, sucied,
    1: I know they are all on camels and blow up cars and commit suicide for their religion. I know they ALL do it because I have seen it on TV and in the movies, as well as from what my peers say.

    2: Some of them ride camels some of them drive cars. Some of us in the UK drive cars and some of us ride horses. Now we ride horses for all kinds of reasons, I assume arabs do the same with camels. Only criminally, limited minded and brain washed people blow up cars and commit suicide to please their god.

    The IRA did it, well not the suicide parts but non the less. It doesnt mean Im always looking out for a leprachaum with a bomb strapped on him when in the Irish woodland, or hide behind the coach when snow white and the seven dwarfs comes on


    and maybe, what do you think of Tunisians, if you know Tunisia,
    According to my auntie, there was a tunisan guy who is quite poor yet he travelled a long distance from his village to the hotel where my auntie was and camped outside until it opened in the morning just to say thanks for a gift she got him and his family the year before.

    I think personally that arabs, tunisians, africans, etc etc are actually more human people than westeners. Westeners are mostly in the reptilian and mammilian brains. Non westeners in general (see I'm at it now ) seem to be in their human brain.

    Interesting question, if I don't speak with you again; have a great life!


    PS. Shadow, pay no attention to these guys. Your heart is in the right place and I favour a person of the heart more of the mind.

    I know I am jumping in the deep end here and I wish to reply to KALSTER and all others posts in one sentece:


    The social and evolutionary state of certain parts of not only africa and the vioilence therin does not rely upon the citizens themselves but rather the country leaders who do not create a social infastructure and focus on the education of human interaction. WHICH is by nature the most important lesson to learn in the modern world.

    Technology will surpass human evolution within tolerable limits within the next 50 years, the result of the violence KALSTER is exactly what I am talking about, South Africans and africans aka less developed countrys are suffering from this...

    and hate to burst everyones bubbles. But that is EXACTLY what will happen in the rest of the world in the next 50 years IF we don't change and educate now.

    Thoughts please and are welcome.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  52. #51
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Tunisia
    Posts
    49
    yeah, i see,
    just a simple word is ennuf: humans
    cause, we're all the same, even those nutts,
    don't worry about education, as far as i know, cause i'm in north africa, or at least the maghreb, that's my area, everyone is educated, well, most effcorse, as anypart in the world.
    my question of this topic was, just a curiosity, nothing more,
    anyway, got to go now, bye, am going out,
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •