Thread: Dream Practice

Can people practice things in dreams for real world results?

Depends on what exactly you mean.

If you mean that mental visualisation of certain key events, yes that is possible. For example, the night before you run a race for a school event, you dreamed that you secured the championship. Your brain will work in a so called goal-oriented complex drive that gives you the confidence to win the race.

Basically, it's essentially a belief structure. If you believe it, it is more likely it will come true, as your sub-consciousness will constantly direct your bodily functions to that end. That is why there are people who have recovered from cancer by unorthodox means like visiting a priest and drinking holy water. The belief in the cure caused their bodies to use all means to fight the cancer and win over it.

Hence, it is possible to do so, but its directly dependent on your strength of your belief in it.

Originally Posted by marcusclayman

Can people practice things in dreams for real world results?

There are some who believe that such practice is possible; however, dreams are more effective in preparing us psychologically for tasks in the real world rather than in help us to develope some real world skill--in my opinion.

I'm more thinking about neurological changes. Like those associated with changing short term memories to long term memories. Practicing a foreign language, or mathematical exercises.

Or even how manual manipulation of tools and one's body. The mind recognizes tools as an extension of the body. Part of the brain is associated with learning how to do things, before we are confident we tend to be uncoordinated with our motions. Can you theoretically practice calligraphy or martial arts in a lucid dream state? Have any serious tests been done?

If this is possible, I'm sure some military organizations are using it to it's fullest.

Practicing a foreign language, or mathematical exercises.

I think this is likely and certainly possible. When we sleep our brains try to rationalise and make sense of all the inputs it has receive in order to organise the data properly. There are geniuses in the world who were thinking about mathematical equations and then went to bed, the next morning waking up with a fully formed mathematical equation.

But these things cannot be consciously directed and controlled, to be used in military applications the way you wish to.

By all means, I do not wish for them to be used by military. It was just a thought, that if this is possible, I'm sure the military has at least tried to use it.

Originally Posted by marcusclayman

I'm more thinking about neurological changes. Like those associated with changing short term memories to long term memories. Practicing a foreign language, or mathematical exercises...The mind recognizes tools as an extension of the body. Part of the brain is associated with learning how to do things, before we are confident we tend to be uncoordinated with our motions. Can you theoretically practice calligraphy or martial arts in a lucid dream state? Have any serious tests been done?

If this is possible, I'm sure some military organizations are using it to it's fullest.

There is much that even those who are well studied do not understand about dreams and the dreaming brain. There is evidence suggesting a distinction between the person we are consciously and the person we are within the dream state. This distinction infers that what we may consciously desire to achieve might not be the goal of the person we are within the dream state. Essentially, I believe we are talking about two distinct individuals whenever we discuss our conscious goals and the goals we seek to achieve through our dream-self.

What tranditional science and the military alike doesn't understand is that our dreaming brain functions under a different hue than that of our conscious brain, which distinguishes our dreaming persona as different from our conscious persona; i.e., our dream persona may not desire the things we consciously seek. Therefore, any efforts to reach some goal through dreams--mental, emotional, or otherwise--has to somehow be reconciled with the person we are within the dream state if success is our aim. From my study, only those practices associated with reaching psychological objectives (e.g., confronting, understanding or conquering sources of fear) appear to be the most productive in lucid study of dreaming.

Originally Posted by marcusclayman

Can people practice things in dreams for real world results?

I was just joking in the other thread about how mundane my dreams often are. Like, working out the spacing of countertop tiles, in my dreams. Always my dreams slip seamlessly from "just thinking", and often stay pretty well rooted in the physical world. I dreamed I used black ink crayon to mark the tile backs and it was bleeding through the wet grout... horrible botched job it was a nightmare. That dream prepared me for real world results, absolutely.

Dreams become more absurd as they proceed though. They're thought experiments and nothing like practicing a foreign language, or mathematical exercises.

Well, my premise is based on the idea that with practice anyone can learn lucid dreaming. I take it that you don't agree with that premise pong?

No, I guess it possible. But I don't imagine that'd be healthy. It's like disciplining children to study and run supervised laps after school, when their inclination is to catch bugs and make mischief.

Why isn't that healthy? Education, income, exercise and health go hand in hand.

Although this is not quite what you are after, there is a fair body of work documenting the benefits of sleep on learning. It seems that sleep immediately folliowing a task reinforces brain patterns and help retain the task. For example:

Improvement in motor skill performance is known to continue for at least 24 hr following training, yet the relative contributions of time spent awake and asleep are unknown. Here we provide evidence that a night of sleep results in a 20% increase in motor speed without loss of accuracy, while an equivalent period of time during wake provides no significant benefit. Furthermore, a significant correlation exists between the improved performance overnight and the amount of stage 2 NREM sleep, particularly late in the night. This finding of sleep-dependent motor skill improvement may have important implications for the efficient learning of all skilled actions in humans.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...84302180386710

It may be more valuable to practice a particular skill before sleep rather than attempt it to practice it during sleep.

Some Buddhists believe that learning to control one's dreams is a step towards learning to control one's thoughts during wakefulness.

Originally Posted by marcusclayman

Why isn't that healthy? Education, income, exercise and health go hand in hand.

It is willful narrowmindedness.

Originally Posted by marcusclayman

Can people practice things in dreams for real world results?

I can. Often, when I fall asleep thinking about something, I continue to think about it untill morning. The alternative to this, is I replay situations in my mind while I'm asleep, which is sort of like practicing social skills when they involve talking to people (an area where, to be honest, I need practise). Very rarely, I do not remember anything, and wake up a number of hours later, feeling more tired and usually with a migrane.

"It is willful narrowmindedness."

Please explain. Feel free to use paragraphs.

Originally Posted by marcusclayman

"It is willful narrowmindedness."

Please explain. Feel free to use paragraphs.

I think he means it isn't very open minded to force children to do one thing over another. Along the same lines, he should say education should be optional, though.

It is willful narrowmindedness. A free flowing dream, conversely, is inadvertant openmindedness. And that's for our own good I think despite our conscious "knowing best". I think the whole point of dreaming is to jump the ruts of "knowing best". Linear thinking vs. lateral thinking. What you're proposing is to carve linear ruts 24 hours.