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Thread: The Rational emotions we feel and why they are logical

  1. #1 The Rational emotions we feel and why they are logical 
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    It is in my firm belief that as humans we make many feeble attempts to make the irrational in to rational, to create baseless hope for simple comfort. But is it really that impossible to understand the origin or even predict the so called emotions we feel everyday. In normal circumstances I would further elaborate on the logic I implemented, but this is my first time doing something like this and in all honesty I am not certain if anyone will reply to this. So please, if you have any inquiry that pertains to the topic discussed, post a reply so that i will know that my endeavors are not fruitless.


    PS. if this topic is being discussed already on other posts or if I'm simply stating the obvious, then please let me know!


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  3. #2  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Emotions are not completely irrational, mykie - they just serve a rationality that is not a purely logical one. They serve the rationale of promoting adaptive behaviors and the rationale of past experiences impacting your future behavior. They are very complex, no doubt, but that does not mean they are perfectly irrational. Just not completely understood.


    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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  4. #3 Re: The Rational emotions we feel and why they are logical 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykyie
    It is in my firm belief
    If it is your firm belief, then no amount of correction will sway you. I have enough experience for six lifetimes, and I can certainly tell you that emotions are very predictable. For every framework of experiences there are predictable responses. They are so predictable, that often times I find myself bored with it. The reason for this is because emotions evolved in a very strict fashion. They're our subconscious guides. They flood our bodies with difficult to control chemicals to tell us what to do /NOW/, not after we're done thinking. In fact, if you imagine various emotions placed in prehistoric circumstances, you begin to make sense of their utility.

    Often times people reach your conclusion due to an inability to properly decipher emotions. If this is the case, I suggest learning as much as possible about the history of humanity in general. Humans are, ultimately, the most predictable creatures on the planet. There is only one problem, and that is you cannot predict the emotions or thoughts of people more intelligent than you are. The more intelligent someone is, the more control they have over their emotions and the more complex their feelings can be.
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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    "I have enough experience for six lifetimes"
    Wow! I am deeply honored that you are willing to spend your time on this forum to share your wisdom with us humble children.

    Complex emotions are a sign of trauma, nerve damage, poor diet and/or repression.

    you can learn to express your emotions intelligently, take for example art and religion. Expressing your emotions and not hiding from them makes you stronger. Learning to use them instead of being used by them is key to being an individual. Social Despotism replaces the club with the hormone.

    If you have a lot of built up emotions, go to an evangelist church and role around and dance and sing. You don't have to believe in the stuff but it can be very therapeutic.

    I prefer to play guitar and sing.

    Your not more intelligent by ignoring your emotions. Wit is a part of Intellect when it comes to sharing your wisdom, debating, etc, it is tied to emotion. Memory is a big part of intellect, if you can't remember something you don't know something, memory is very emotional, something needs to move you.

    Wonder is an emotion. Asking a question feels different than giving an answer.
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Ph.D. Darius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    Wow! I am deeply honored that you are willing to spend your time on this forum to share your wisdom with us humble children.
    True, it is an honor. I don't always spend my time here, though. I often take leave to share wisdom with others more worthy. Perhaps one day someone here will be worth more concentrated efforts.
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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  7. #6 Re: The Rational emotions we feel and why they are logical 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    Quote Originally Posted by mykyie
    It is in my firm belief
    They are so predictable, that often times I find myself bored with it. The reason for this is because emotions evolved in a very strict fashion. They're our subconscious guides. They flood our bodies with difficult to control chemicals to tell us what to do /NOW/, not after we're done thinking. In fact, if you imagine various emotions placed in prehistoric circumstances, you begin to make sense of their utility.
    Do you mean emotions are predictable for you? So if you won the lottery, you would be able to predict that you'll be excited and overjoyed emotionally?
    ~ One’s ultimate perfection depends on the development of all the members of society ~ Kabbalah
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  8. #7 Re: The Rational emotions we feel and why they are logical 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    There is only one problem, and that is you cannot predict the emotions or thoughts of people more intelligent than you are.
    Not a problem you face, then.
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    It's often extremely difficult to decipher one's emotional state. Some people look angry who are happy. Some "happy" people are good at hiding their true feelings. I mean, think about it...I work at the grocery store and ask people how they are doing all day long. I've had 2 or 3 people say, "ehh..I'm ok" but 99% of people say "Good." People are taught to be deceptive and "put on a happy face" for the most part...at least in the States. People are very complex emotionally. All people.
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    I'm originally from the US, but living in Korea. The differences in the way people express and feel emotion here are pretty evident. Koreans are quite reluctant to display their emotion outwardly and work to present a constant happy mentality. It's sometimes tough to tell what a person is really thinking about you, to the point that you can even hire physognomists, professional face readers.

    It's odd that display of emotion is avoided because Koreans are highly emotional people. Even business decisions made heavily based on how one feels about the transaction. Facts and objectivity sometimes take a back seat to emotion. That's one reason there are so many cartoon company mascots here.

    I see alot of situations where Americans and Koreans have quite lively arguments over these minor differences. One cannot make a blunt, though polite critisism of a Korean's work. You must artfully communicate this in a way that allows them to "save face", being very careful of not overstepping the strict heirarchy boundaries which is a whole new can of worms.

    I made a phonecall to a restaurant and plainly informed them that they had forgotten to deliver several items in my order. Because I failed to respect these social boundaries, and I think partly because the manager saw me as socially beneath himself, I was rewarded with a personal visit and a nice little shouting match. Never did get my fries.
    Co-producer of Red Oasis
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    Forum Professor marcusclayman's Avatar
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    That is what the barter system is based on, emotions, not the going rate.

    Emotions are a waste of time to some people, but when speaking to emotional people, logic doesn't work. Bottom line, we are all each ONE WHOLE CREATURE, we will find strength in balancing our many parts and using them as one rather than dividing them amongst the many parts of our lives. We should have one life, not, WORK, WIFE, KIDS, CAR, INTERNET, but LIFE.

    Pythagoras said "speak to a drunkard as a drunkard" or something like that, meaning you can't explain the truth or speak reason, or share anything to anyone who is not in the proper state of mind to receive it as you mean it. This is how misunderstandings happen, and people fight because the meaning of a word is not agreed on, people assume everyone listens like they speak, but that is not the case. That is why it is more important to listen than to speak, it will make you a better speaker. Instead of trying to make others speak your language, listen and speak the language they use.

    Logical people vs emotional people.

    a logical person uses reason to rise above emotions
    an emotional person uses reason to decide where to aim their emotions


    logic is to mental clarity what emotion is to bodily strength

    if you can't relate to someone emotionally, you can't communicate effectively to them
    Dick, be Frank.

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  12. #11 Re: The Rational emotions we feel and why they are logical 
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Not a problem you face, then.
    It is, just not with anyone on this forum.
    Om mani padme hum

    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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  13. #12 Re: The Rational emotions we feel and why they are logical 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykyie
    It is in my firm belief that as humans we make many feeble attempts to make the irrational in to rational, to create baseless hope for simple comfort. But is it really that impossible to understand the origin or even predict the so called emotions we feel everyday. In normal circumstances I would further elaborate on the logic I implemented, but this is my first time doing something like this and in all honesty I am not certain if anyone will reply to this. So please, if you have any inquiry that pertains to the topic discussed, post a reply so that i will know that my endeavors are not fruitless.


    PS. if this topic is being discussed already on other posts or if I'm simply stating the obvious, then please let me know!
    What happens is that we make ourselves believe things that may not necessarily be true. When your brain takes in advice, either your own or somone elses, you shut down your decision making processes in your brain. So when you take on board external information you basically close off your thinking in that thought path. It is possible to make any thought or idea a reality. Nothing is impossible, we can potentially make any feeling real, it just depends where we have our concentration and focus directed towards. We teach our brain how to work, then it brings what we teach it to life.
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  14. #13  
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    "When your brain takes in advice, either your own or someone else's, you shut down your decision making processes in your brain."

    that is interesting spaceman1, is this how it actually works or is this just a theory?

    to paraphrase, to affirm that we meen the same thing:

    "Thinking and Observing are incompatible"

    I don't know if they are incompatible, but I do see how one takes away from the other. Are you sure this is not just a habit though or something that could be changed with practice?
    Dick, be Frank.

    Ambiguity Kills.
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    There are many things in just this world that we humans do not understand. We try to use and apply what we already know to 'raionalise' something to make it seem easier to believe, or to gain some meaing or justification from it.

    But these are subject to change over time anyway. The important thing to remember is that we live with rationality to create 'comfort' as you say. Some may see it that way others may not. But comfort is just a time for rest, a break. So those rationalisations are just time outs from the fact that we don't know what it is and use what we know to explain it. For instance:

    You've been travelling for a while and are becoming tired. You approach a new obstacle, or gap in the road. You can't get by until you rest. So you rationalise that the blockage is non-passable, just so that you can rest for a while. Once you've rested you don't rationalise it with the past because you don't need to, the comfort has gone and the comfort now lies beyond the blockage. So that rationalisation becomes a thing of the past.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    "When your brain takes in advice, either your own or someone else's, you shut down your decision making processes in your brain."

    that is interesting spaceman1, is this how it actually works or is this just a theory?
    Yes, I read an article about some research that was done on it. This is how it actually works.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    Are you sure this is not just a habit though or something that could be changed with practice?
    I think it is more than habit. But yes, anything can be changed. We can potentially make any idea or feeling a reality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darius
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    Wow! I am deeply honored that you are willing to spend your time on this forum to share your wisdom with us humble children.
    True, it is an honor. I don't always spend my time here, though. I often take leave to share wisdom with others more worthy. Perhaps one day someone here will be worth more concentrated efforts.
    I have a big problem with what you've said. I am new here, so hey all! But anyhow, first of all, you're no better than anyone else, mate. Even if you have experienced "6 lifetimes" , which is impossible unless you have lived 6 lifetimes and that also is impossible unless we foolish humans have made something better. I'm sorry if you guys were laughing at this fella, but I think Darius is just full of himself, so mykyie don't worry about him . Anyhow, if you're going to degrade anyone Darius, then just leave with all your super human "wisdom" , because you're just making a fool of yourself.

    But down to business, I was googling "rational emotions" because I seem to be jealous of a fella who an old friend of mine has fallen in love with "if I'm right, at least...if I'm wrong, I'm sorry for my foolishness" . Anyhow, to make a long story short, I miss her, the friend that has fallen in love with this boy, and my jealousy seems to grow as I think about him with her. I need a way to be able to combine a rational emotion with jealousy so I can hopefully help null it out. I don't want to ruin a possible relationship with her because of my jealousy of this kid.

    Could I have the honor of an answer? If there is a way I can help anyone else here, I would be more than obliged to do so.

    mykyie, I'm afraid that from my knowledge, though very little since I'm 19 years old, I don't think there is a way to predict emotions, unless you make it completely obvious. For instance give a person a kitten, chances are they would be more caring than you would ever see them, or give them a baby :P . Or see a boy be kissed by a girl, chances are he'd be ecstatic like nothing before. I guess, if you look at it that way, emotions can be predicted. I hope I helped a little bit, good luck with your future research my friend!
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    You'll have a hard time trying to go against the DNA -driven nature of your emotions. They are there for a reason. It's to help you successfully score and mate.

    Removed form the natural world as we are in civilization, we can't act on all of our drives. But if your brain is tweaking you with jealousy...then it's a good idea to drop the chick from your life. You're jealous because you want her on some level, and you have built up her quality so that you hope to have access to the chick when she is free.

    Dude. There's alot of fish in the sea. Schools of them.

    Go find a better chick. There's enough chix out there that you can eventually find one. Just act calm, no chick digs a quietly desperate guy. Learn to be self-assured and confident.

    You'll find that meeting other women will evaporate your jealousy for this special chick mighty quick. And she will be worth alot less in your eyes, too, which is nothing but good for you. If she doesn't want you, then throw away the garbage, man - you don't need garbage lying all around where you live.
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    Thanks. I'll do my best to keep calm. If anyone else can put in some advice, then by all means, I'm all ears :P

    "Built up her quality"
    -------How do you mean?
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  20. #19  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uniden
    I need a way to be able to combine a rational emotion with jealousy so I can hopefully help null it out. I don't want to ruin a possible relationship with her because of my jealousy of this kid.
    If there's one thing you should learn about emotions it's that they don't go away just because you want them to. Something in your mind has decided that this girl is a desirable mate, and your genes, via your emotions, are pushing you to procure her. Until that something in your mind changes, or you procure her, you're just gonna feel like shit for a while. That's how it is.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    Too true!

    And we wouldn't be saying it if we hadn't already been there. I wish someone had told this to me when I was younger, it would have saved me ALOT of heartache.

    "Built up her quality" means that you use psychological self-convincing. Let's say you want to buy a game, but you're on a budget. You will rationalize getting that game through internal dialogue. I know because I do it all the time.
    Who needs L4D2 when I already have a zombie shoot em up adventure?

    "Oh but it will give you a totally new adrenaline rush!!!"
    "Ya, but I get adrenaline when I spar."
    "You're not sparring with frikkin ZOMBIES that wanna KILL ya, mate!!!"
    "SOLD!"

    You're doing the same thing for the chick.
    ooohhh, her hair; don't you love it when she turns and looks up at you from under her hair?
    OMFG she has calves! And she's showing them in the summer!
    ohhhh her butt sways when she walks * just perfect *. Other chix sway their butts, but NOT LIKE THIS ONE!


    SOLD!



    You see? That's what they mean by "Love is blind". You need very strong willpower to simply realize what isn't working to your advantage, let go of your investment you already made, and start fresh. If you can find that strength within you, it will be nothing but a huge advantage to your life.

    I fucked up on the first three chix that I built up in my mind - one of them way too much. OK all 3 of them waay too much. I have an idea of what I'm talking about.

    But your dick (i.e., your DNA) might be too strong for your brain.
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    So the key is just to stay calm, and have some self control?
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    It's more like, you'll be calm and self controlled when you make any hot chick that you want something nice to see, but not necessarily what you're shopping for.
    "Fool yourself and you can fool your enemy".
    When you go to a store and tell the guy "YA, I want this one for sure!" he knows he's got you - he can charge you more. In the same way, if you act like it would be something you might buy, but aren't desperate for, you get a fair price.

    A chick will find you alot more attractive when you don't really care. It doesn't mean all of them will throw themselves at you. You'll still find that there are 2 dozen who say NO. But then you can be damn happy with the one that says YES instead of obsessing over the others every time you ask someone new if they want some fun.

    And chix will test you - they'll claim their boyfriend walked in and saw them and is acting angry, or they'll make some comment about how attractive another girl is instead of them (to see what you will say about them and not the other chick).

    Just remember - while chickese is a wierd language, most chix want their way and their ego subtly stroked (=without drooling all over them). If you seem in agreement with them on alot of things, they'll notice.
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    Alright. Thank you! Man, what'd I do if I never found this place...
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    All people are emotional. Some display their feelings openly, while others hide them. Yet we all experience them in our own way. Feelings are important (we would not live for very long if we did not have the feeling of fear before a cliff or on approaching car) and enjoyable (nobody would like to miss the feeling of joy or love).
    voiture simulation de credit immobilier en ligne - Simulation credit immobilier en ligne. L’Internet a rendu encore plus facile d’obtenir de l’aide pour trouver le credit immobilier.
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    What you call "feeble attempts to make the irrational in to rational, to create baseless hope for simple comfort" is an important part of our humanity. Have you ever seen emotional monkeys jumping up and down when they start to receive data from a Mars robot? What is behind of this? A success of rational mathematical calculations? More than that: 200 years ago it was unthinkable to crack the code of life, since they did not have the slightest idea that there was a code behind life in the first place. Yet Crick and Watson entered their local pub and Crick said that "we have found the secret of life" with full of emotion. These emotions are not only for baseless hope for simple comfort... Emotions are energy for human sprit.
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